any advice for an EVIL campaign, also high level [Archive] - Wizards Community

any advice for an EVIL campaign, also high level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blackrazorblade
10-30-05, 04:04 PM I am about to start my first evil campaign, i'm the DM, it will start at 20th level, the highest I have ever played/DMed before was 10th so i was wonder if there was anything i should know about doing this.
The Colonel
10-30-05, 04:57 PM My personal advice would be ... don't.
If you've never played at 20th level before (especially under the new rules) then I'm thinking that the last thing you want to do is START a variant campaign up there...
Magness
10-30-05, 05:25 PM I second the motion to not run it that high. There is a big difference between 10th and 20th.

But if you're gunna do it anyway...

The thing with evil champagnes is that the PCs are gunna have to expect the forces of good to try to counter them. Other than that it works much the same. Instead of delving deep into a dungeon to retrieve the lost holy relic of Roland the great they delve just as deep into an otherwise identical dungeon to retrieve the unholy relic of Roland the terrible. Instead of breaking into the evil guy's strong hold to rescue the princess they break in the good guy's strong hold to abduct her. Also remember the just because they are evil that doesn't mean that they will only face good guys. The other evil guys might get jealous or scared and try to stop them, or just be going after the same evil goals as the PCs.

Hope that helps.
Blackrazorblade
10-30-05, 05:40 PM I was going to play as thye were mercs for whoever would buy them. They are the most powerful on the plane..... so they get tricked into being trapped on a plane with much more.... suitable.... enemies. Then i guess i'll let them figure out waht to do in terms of where to go who to kill and how to get home. Assuming they want to go home, they were the best of the best of the best, (sir) and had quite a monopoly.
FriendoftheDork
10-30-05, 09:15 PM Might work, but it will take alot of time I think. I'm running an evil drow campaign (ECL 15) and the first encounter to challenge the party was a drow clr 15/ran 3 CR 19. It took along time making her, and it was hell trying to figure out all of her spells etc. in combat, bonuses and everything.

So really you're left with MM monsters that the PCs should have difficulty beating (CR 20) and non-spellcasting NPCs as the spellcasters takes too long to make properly.

So now I'm looking forward to getting back to first level again.

IMO do 1st level, or maybe just 5th then they are powerful enough to matter but there will still be challenge even in simple encounters.
yellowdingo
10-30-05, 10:01 PM The thing with evil champagnes is that the PCs are gunna have to expect the forces of good to try to counter them. Other than that it works much the same. Instead of delving deep into a dungeon to retrieve the lost holy relic of Roland the great they delve just as deep into an otherwise identical dungeon to retrieve the unholy relic of Roland the terrible. Instead of breaking into the evil guy's strong hold to rescue the princess they break in the good guy's strong hold to abduct her. Also remember the just because they are evil that doesn't mean that they will only face good guys. The other evil guys might get jealous or scared and try to stop them, or just be going after the same evil goals as the PCs.

Take some time out and watch the entire Blake Seven series. All the factions in that scifi are Evil in some way.

The resistance
Rodg Blake-Resistance leader, Insane, drunk on own reputation, convicted paedophile, willing to hurl assets on his uprising. This isnt his first uprising. the last few were brutaly crushed by the Federation because he was the leader of it.
Kerr Avon- Computer hacker, Arrogant, All too willing to sacrifice others in his agenda, murderer and thief, rival for power in the resistance to Rodg Blake and the vast wealth in resources that it has amassed.
Others in the resistance include murderers, rapists, thieves, smugglers, traitors. That is pretty much why they were being deported to the penal planet of Cygnus Alpha.

The Federation
Servelan- a ruthless President of an earthcentric regime with all the power of an army of Federation troopers (who look like SWAT with gas Masks and Grenade Launchers), pacification drugs, and a fleet of space ships.
Travis- Federation Commander and Warcriminal guilty of Genocide and opression of many of the Human planetary colonies. Very much on the run from the Federation but with access to all its assets.

It is useful from a D&D perspective because it presents a world rich in characters with no hangups about killing anyone who gets in their way. It should provide you with a selection of ideas for running a campaign based on evil characters.
The Wasp
10-30-05, 10:15 PM I would second the suggestion: don't do it.

High level play is quite broken if you don't know exactly what you are doing. it takes a lot of experience to find that precise balance that challenges the entire party without killing them.

I realize they are trying to play powerful characters. But a band of 12th level characters is already one of the most powerful forces on most planets. And if your party can't realize the potential in 12th level characters, then no way are they going to be able to make worthwhile 20th level characters.

Stick with what you know, and you will have a lot more fun. I guarantee it. And when the party finally gets 9th level spells, there will be a marked sense of accomplishment.
Blackrazorblade
10-31-05, 08:00 PM Well the main reason we want to do a high level campaign is that our campaigns tend not to last longer than 6-7 sessions and 1 or 2 levels
FriendoftheDork
10-31-05, 08:27 PM Well the main reason we want to do a high level campaign is that our campaigns tend not to last longer than 6-7 sessions and 1 or 2 levels

well that is a flaw in itself, most players enjoy some longevity on campaigns. If you just want short adventures do a short game with a single adventure and plot with no level advancement. Still I doubt the players will do well as 20th level unless they have experience playing so high level character's before.
Blackrazorblade
10-31-05, 09:36 PM well that is a flaw in itself, most players enjoy some longevity on campaigns. If you just want short adventures do a short game with a single adventure and plot with no level advancement. Still I doubt the players will do well as 20th level unless they have experience playing so high level character's before.

Well, its not like we don't want a long campaign, we just get bored and want a fresh one, new characters or something. We're kinda ADD that way. Actually 2 kids in the group are.... and ones addicted to caffeine majorly.....
Ekranoplan
10-31-05, 10:23 PM I would recomend not starting at level 20. Anything below level 10 would be far superior.

But some favorite evil adventures that pop into mind are:

A) putting down food-riots

B) destroying printing presses and other such things to prevent any sort of revolution to keep the power in hands of the evil nobles (works out nice if your PCs are part of that group of nobles.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blackrazorblade 10-30-05, 04:04 PM	I am about to start my first evil campaign, i'm the DM, it will start at 20th level, the highest I have ever played/DMed before was 10th so i was wonder if there was anything i should know about doing this.
The Colonel 10-30-05, 04:57 PM	My personal advice would be ... don't. If you've never played at 20th level before (especially under the new rules) then I'm thinking that the last thing you want to do is START a variant campaign up there...
Magness 10-30-05, 05:25 PM	I second the motion to not run it that high. There is a big difference between 10th and 20th. But if you're gunna do it anyway... The thing with evil champagnes is that the PCs are gunna have to expect the forces of good to try to counter them. Other than that it works much the same. Instead of delving deep into a dungeon to retrieve the lost holy relic of Roland the great they delve just as deep into an otherwise identical dungeon to retrieve the unholy relic of Roland the terrible. Instead of breaking into the evil guy's strong hold to rescue the princess they break in the good guy's strong hold to abduct her. Also remember the just because they are evil that doesn't mean that they will only face good guys. The other evil guys might get jealous or scared and try to stop them, or just be going after the same evil goals as the PCs. Hope that helps.
Blackrazorblade 10-30-05, 05:40 PM	I was going to play as thye were mercs for whoever would buy them. They are the most powerful on the plane..... so they get tricked into being trapped on a plane with much more.... suitable.... enemies. Then i guess i'll let them figure out waht to do in terms of where to go who to kill and how to get home. Assuming they want to go home, they were the best of the best of the best, (sir) and had quite a monopoly.
FriendoftheDork 10-30-05, 09:15 PM	Might work, but it will take alot of time I think. I'm running an evil drow campaign (ECL 15) and the first encounter to challenge the party was a drow clr 15/ran 3 CR 19. It took along time making her, and it was hell trying to figure out all of her spells etc. in combat, bonuses and everything. So really you're left with MM monsters that the PCs should have difficulty beating (CR 20) and non-spellcasting NPCs as the spellcasters takes too long to make properly. So now I'm looking forward to getting back to first level again. IMO do 1st level, or maybe just 5th then they are powerful enough to matter but there will still be challenge even in simple encounters.
yellowdingo 10-30-05, 10:01 PM	The thing with evil champagnes is that the PCs are gunna have to expect the forces of good to try to counter them. Other than that it works much the same. Instead of delving deep into a dungeon to retrieve the lost holy relic of Roland the great they delve just as deep into an otherwise identical dungeon to retrieve the unholy relic of Roland the terrible. Instead of breaking into the evil guy's strong hold to rescue the princess they break in the good guy's strong hold to abduct her. Also remember the just because they are evil that doesn't mean that they will only face good guys. The other evil guys might get jealous or scared and try to stop them, or just be going after the same evil goals as the PCs. Take some time out and watch the entire Blake Seven series. All the factions in that scifi are Evil in some way. The resistance Rodg Blake-Resistance leader, Insane, drunk on own reputation, convicted paedophile, willing to hurl assets on his uprising. This isnt his first uprising. the last few were brutaly crushed by the Federation because he was the leader of it. Kerr Avon- Computer hacker, Arrogant, All too willing to sacrifice others in his agenda, murderer and thief, rival for power in the resistance to Rodg Blake and the vast wealth in resources that it has amassed. Others in the resistance include murderers, rapists, thieves, smugglers, traitors. That is pretty much why they were being deported to the penal planet of Cygnus Alpha. The Federation Servelan- a ruthless President of an earthcentric regime with all the power of an army of Federation troopers (who look like SWAT with gas Masks and Grenade Launchers), pacification drugs, and a fleet of space ships. Travis- Federation Commander and Warcriminal guilty of Genocide and opression of many of the Human planetary colonies. Very much on the run from the Federation but with access to all its assets. It is useful from a D&D perspective because it presents a world rich in characters with no hangups about killing anyone who gets in their way. It should provide you with a selection of ideas for running a campaign based on evil characters.
The Wasp 10-30-05, 10:15 PM	I would second the suggestion: don't do it. High level play is quite broken if you don't know exactly what you are doing. it takes a lot of experience to find that precise balance that challenges the entire party without killing them. I realize they are trying to play powerful characters. But a band of 12th level characters is already one of the most powerful forces on most planets. And if your party can't realize the potential in 12th level characters, then no way are they going to be able to make worthwhile 20th level characters. Stick with what you know, and you will have a lot more fun. I guarantee it. And when the party finally gets 9th level spells, there will be a marked sense of accomplishment.
Blackrazorblade 10-31-05, 08:00 PM	Well the main reason we want to do a high level campaign is that our campaigns tend not to last longer than 6-7 sessions and 1 or 2 levels
FriendoftheDork 10-31-05, 08:27 PM	Well the main reason we want to do a high level campaign is that our campaigns tend not to last longer than 6-7 sessions and 1 or 2 levels well that is a flaw in itself, most players enjoy some longevity on campaigns. If you just want short adventures do a short game with a single adventure and plot with no level advancement. Still I doubt the players will do well as 20th level unless they have experience playing so high level character's before.
Blackrazorblade 10-31-05, 09:36 PM	well that is a flaw in itself, most players enjoy some longevity on campaigns. If you just want short adventures do a short game with a single adventure and plot with no level advancement. Still I doubt the players will do well as 20th level unless they have experience playing so high level character's before. Well, its not like we don't want a long campaign, we just get bored and want a fresh one, new characters or something. We're kinda ADD that way. Actually 2 kids in the group are.... and ones addicted to caffeine majorly.....
Ekranoplan 10-31-05, 10:23 PM	I would recomend not starting at level 20. Anything below level 10 would be far superior. But some favorite evil adventures that pop into mind are: A) putting down food-riots B) destroying printing presses and other such things to prevent any sort of revolution to keep the power in hands of the evil nobles (works out nice if your PCs are part of that group of nobles.