Any advice for how to run an evil campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any advice for how to run an evil campaign? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zangalas
02-24-04, 04:15 AM I've been talking with my players about whether they would like to start an evil campaign next, to a generally positive response. While it seems like an entertaining prospect, I haven't really the foggiest idea as to what kind of quests to send them on. I'll be starting them at level 1, so they've got to start their evil ways thinking small, but just how small should they be thinking?
Any advice would be great, because from the sounds of things, my players are tired of being the normal goody-goody heroes, and are ready to let their darker sides have a turn at the wheel.
What kind of circumstances would convince two evil people to begin a lasting relationship with each other, anyway? My characters are pretty good about turning on each other when the situation doesn't call for it, but in an evil campaign, if they don't have a real reason to work together, it seems like the fabric of the team might come apart. Should I just go with it, or would this likely not see my party past level three?
Thanks in advance!
HalifaxDM
02-24-04, 10:36 AM In my Evil FR Campaign the characters are are all servants of the Curch of Bane and the Zhentarim under orders to establish a new cell and church in the frontier town of Jalanthar.
TWG_Prometheus
02-24-04, 11:03 AM I'm not entirely certain where this thought comes from that a group of evil people can't maintain a cohesive group. Aren't there orcish hordes and cabals of witches, death cults and thief guilds?

Give the PCs an organization. It doesn't have to be terribly organized...just something to give them a common cause. It could even just be a much more powerful demon that has taken them all as thralls. Talk about an easy way to give your PCs missions. I'm running an evil campaign presently, and so far it's been going well. The PCs don't all have the same goals, and shouldn't, but they view each other as a means to obtain their power/money/goals rather than as a convenient target for a sneak attack. Evil people are just as likely as good people to form 'lasting relationships' in order to obtain their goals. They even can *gasp* have loyalty to each other. They are people too...just evil people. Don't let the third-grader 'I'm evil and I can do anything at all that I want now' mentality prevail and you'll be fine.

Other issues may arise as well, such as what you do when the air gets uncomfortable due to some of the evil things your PC characters are doing as well. Work out a solution for that ahead of time.
Rian Lightblade
02-24-04, 01:45 PM Originally posted by Zangalas

What kind of circumstances would convince two evil people to begin a lasting relationship with each other, anyway? My characters are pretty good about turning on each other when the situation doesn't call for it, but in an evil campaign, if they don't have a real reason to work together, it seems like the fabric of the team might come apart. Should I just go with it, or would this likely not see my party past level three?
Thanks in advance!

Just because they're evil doesn't mean they don't want friend and family. It doesn't mean that they woun't work together for a common goal. Nor does it mean that they even perceive themselves as evil. As many here have suggested give them them a common goal or cause to work for. Award planning and teamwork and penalize overt infighting.
Zangalas
02-24-04, 01:52 PM Hm... Yes. That would work. I hadn't even considered making them a part of an organization to begin with, but that would give them plenty of reason to work together AND commit evil. I suppose the only question I have beyond that is: "what is a reasonable mission to send a party of 1st-level evil characters on?"
Petty stuff, like shaking down a local store? Arson? Demanding protection money? Kidnapping and ransom?
I figure all of this stuff would be fun, but I want to give my characters the benefit of reasonable survival chances. What other fun, evil things can I send them on at first level?
Rian Lightblade
02-24-04, 01:56 PM I like the idea of the PC running a protection racket. It sounds like it would be an excellent adventure, especially when the store keeper hires a group of heros to protect him from the PCs.

Arson, raiding a merhcant caravan, stealing from the local church, starting a bookies (sp?) and so on would be good ideas as well
king_of_evil007
02-24-04, 02:32 PM First off: Tell your players in no uncertain terms that harming each other without the other guy's permission (such as using fireball in combat to take out lots of enemies bunched together) is illegal in this game, and the offender gets kicked for that day.
Next time he tries it, he's kicked from the campaign.

Evil characters can easily work together. But many players decide "I'm evil! I can kill everybody and steal my companions familiar!" and he'll try to do it, unless your players know what they're doing.
If any of them have any out of game problems with each other, resolve it before you play, immediately. If Clarence and Joey-Bob got into an argument over the watercooler at work, then they go to play D&D, Clarence might "accidentially" coup de grace Joey-Bob.

I'm not saying evil campaigns don't work, just make sure your players realize that they have to work together, to a certain degree.

The War of the Spider Queen book series (FR, first book is Dissolution) describes an evil adventuring party. They're always scheming against each other, but in the end they usually realize that they ave to work together, at least to keep them alive so they can kill each other later.

Evil people can have friends. Let your players know that. They still need to eat, drink, sleep, and socialize with other people, just like the "good guys".
Maybe the evil guys are friends, business partners, family, or two people who realize that it won't be beneficial to kill each other.

For quests: II've done an evil game before, though it was more comedic than serious. It showed off the human side of the bad guys (the PCs), who had problems leaping over large gaps, unlocking doors, while the "Good Guy" (antagonist paladin) had no problem doing these things, much like the villain in many gamnes.
The campaign started off like a good one, the PCs went off on quests and were hired by people for various reasons, they did some dungeon crawling, etc. But rather than being praised in the town for saving the princess, they took her and held her hostage until the ransom was paid. That kind of thing. nothing horribly bad (they were low level) but stuff that wasn't good, either.
Then, they went to get this powerful artifact for somebody (it was in reality, a +2 longsword), but the "good guy" got it first. He (and his companions) played the antagonist, or "villains" if you will.
The good guys later discovered (around the time the PCs were level 8) that there was supposedly an artifact that could rid the world of evil, but it had to be found and assembled.
The PCs, understandably distressed, decided to find (and destroy) the pieces of the artifact first.
Yadda yadda, gather information, everything that a good guy would do to find an artifact that could rid the world of evil, something that would happen in an ordinary campaign. Upon arriving at the destination of the first artifact, it was already taken.
The PCs eventually grew in power, built their own "castle of doom" (Stronghold Builders Guidebook, a musthave for any prospective villain) complete with torture room, dungeon, and traps that take a ridiculous amount of time to activate and that are quite easy to escape from.
They kidnapped the Paladin's girlfriend (the princess they saved early on), drew him to their lair, and the proceedings went down like an Austin Powers movie, only without the mojo. Lots of villainous laughing, cheesy traps, and a lot of fun.

The campaign ended (at level 17) with the PCs defeating the Paladin and his companions, but accidentally activated this artifact, and all evil (including them) was rinsed from the world.

The end.

Not once did the PCs separate from or hurt the other PCs. They were friends and they were a team.

That's how to run an evil campaign (though it was meant to be a comedic one)
fruits and vegetables
02-24-04, 02:59 PM tell them not to fight each otheR. that always leads to the game falling aparT. explain that to theM.

evil can have friendS.
evil can work togetheR.
evil can have emotions if only poor execution of theM.
evil people are not always cut throat/baby raping/party killing/ megalomaniacS. they can be sensible if greedY.

in general it takes people above the age of 17 to play evil alignmentS. people and especially guys under that age use it as some form of therepY. whatever social problems they have in life they transpose to their evil character to fulfil acts of anger and vengence that they would like to do to real peoplE. that is my theory anywaY. i am pretty sure if a study was done on this it would prove me righT.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zangalas 02-24-04, 04:15 AM	I've been talking with my players about whether they would like to start an evil campaign next, to a generally positive response. While it seems like an entertaining prospect, I haven't really the foggiest idea as to what kind of quests to send them on. I'll be starting them at level 1, so they've got to start their evil ways thinking small, but just how small should they be thinking? Any advice would be great, because from the sounds of things, my players are tired of being the normal goody-goody heroes, and are ready to let their darker sides have a turn at the wheel. What kind of circumstances would convince two evil people to begin a lasting relationship with each other, anyway? My characters are pretty good about turning on each other when the situation doesn't call for it, but in an evil campaign, if they don't have a real reason to work together, it seems like the fabric of the team might come apart. Should I just go with it, or would this likely not see my party past level three? Thanks in advance!
HalifaxDM 02-24-04, 10:36 AM	In my Evil FR Campaign the characters are are all servants of the Curch of Bane and the Zhentarim under orders to establish a new cell and church in the frontier town of Jalanthar.
TWG_Prometheus 02-24-04, 11:03 AM	I'm not entirely certain where this thought comes from that a group of evil people can't maintain a cohesive group. Aren't there orcish hordes and cabals of witches, death cults and thief guilds? Give the PCs an organization. It doesn't have to be terribly organized...just something to give them a common cause. It could even just be a much more powerful demon that has taken them all as thralls. Talk about an easy way to give your PCs missions. I'm running an evil campaign presently, and so far it's been going well. The PCs don't all have the same goals, and shouldn't, but they view each other as a means to obtain their power/money/goals rather than as a convenient target for a sneak attack. Evil people are just as likely as good people to form 'lasting relationships' in order to obtain their goals. They even can gasp have loyalty to each other. They are people too...just evil people. Don't let the third-grader 'I'm evil and I can do anything at all that I want now' mentality prevail and you'll be fine. Other issues may arise as well, such as what you do when the air gets uncomfortable due to some of the evil things your PC characters are doing as well. Work out a solution for that ahead of time.
Rian Lightblade 02-24-04, 01:45 PM	Originally posted by Zangalas What kind of circumstances would convince two evil people to begin a lasting relationship with each other, anyway? My characters are pretty good about turning on each other when the situation doesn't call for it, but in an evil campaign, if they don't have a real reason to work together, it seems like the fabric of the team might come apart. Should I just go with it, or would this likely not see my party past level three? Thanks in advance! Just because they're evil doesn't mean they don't want friend and family. It doesn't mean that they woun't work together for a common goal. Nor does it mean that they even perceive themselves as evil. As many here have suggested give them them a common goal or cause to work for. Award planning and teamwork and penalize overt infighting.
Zangalas 02-24-04, 01:52 PM	Hm... Yes. That would work. I hadn't even considered making them a part of an organization to begin with, but that would give them plenty of reason to work together AND commit evil. I suppose the only question I have beyond that is: "what is a reasonable mission to send a party of 1st-level evil characters on?" Petty stuff, like shaking down a local store? Arson? Demanding protection money? Kidnapping and ransom? I figure all of this stuff would be fun, but I want to give my characters the benefit of reasonable survival chances. What other fun, evil things can I send them on at first level?
Rian Lightblade 02-24-04, 01:56 PM	I like the idea of the PC running a protection racket. It sounds like it would be an excellent adventure, especially when the store keeper hires a group of heros to protect him from the PCs. Arson, raiding a merhcant caravan, stealing from the local church, starting a bookies (sp?) and so on would be good ideas as well
king_of_evil007 02-24-04, 02:32 PM	First off: Tell your players in no uncertain terms that harming each other without the other guy's permission (such as using fireball in combat to take out lots of enemies bunched together) is illegal in this game, and the offender gets kicked for that day. Next time he tries it, he's kicked from the campaign. Evil characters can easily work together. But many players decide "I'm evil! I can kill everybody and steal my companions familiar!" and he'll try to do it, unless your players know what they're doing. If any of them have any out of game problems with each other, resolve it before you play, immediately. If Clarence and Joey-Bob got into an argument over the watercooler at work, then they go to play D&D, Clarence might "accidentially" coup de grace Joey-Bob. I'm not saying evil campaigns don't work, just make sure your players realize that they have to work together, to a certain degree. The War of the Spider Queen book series (FR, first book is Dissolution) describes an evil adventuring party. They're always scheming against each other, but in the end they usually realize that they ave to work together, at least to keep them alive so they can kill each other later. Evil people can have friends. Let your players know that. They still need to eat, drink, sleep, and socialize with other people, just like the "good guys". Maybe the evil guys are friends, business partners, family, or two people who realize that it won't be beneficial to kill each other. For quests: II've done an evil game before, though it was more comedic than serious. It showed off the human side of the bad guys (the PCs), who had problems leaping over large gaps, unlocking doors, while the "Good Guy" (antagonist paladin) had no problem doing these things, much like the villain in many gamnes. The campaign started off like a good one, the PCs went off on quests and were hired by people for various reasons, they did some dungeon crawling, etc. But rather than being praised in the town for saving the princess, they took her and held her hostage until the ransom was paid. That kind of thing. nothing horribly bad (they were low level) but stuff that wasn't good, either. Then, they went to get this powerful artifact for somebody (it was in reality, a +2 longsword), but the "good guy" got it first. He (and his companions) played the antagonist, or "villains" if you will. The good guys later discovered (around the time the PCs were level 8) that there was supposedly an artifact that could rid the world of evil, but it had to be found and assembled. The PCs, understandably distressed, decided to find (and destroy) the pieces of the artifact first. Yadda yadda, gather information, everything that a good guy would do to find an artifact that could rid the world of evil, something that would happen in an ordinary campaign. Upon arriving at the destination of the first artifact, it was already taken. The PCs eventually grew in power, built their own "castle of doom" (Stronghold Builders Guidebook, a musthave for any prospective villain) complete with torture room, dungeon, and traps that take a ridiculous amount of time to activate and that are quite easy to escape from. They kidnapped the Paladin's girlfriend (the princess they saved early on), drew him to their lair, and the proceedings went down like an Austin Powers movie, only without the mojo. Lots of villainous laughing, cheesy traps, and a lot of fun. The campaign ended (at level 17) with the PCs defeating the Paladin and his companions, but accidentally activated this artifact, and all evil (including them) was rinsed from the world. The end. Not once did the PCs separate from or hurt the other PCs. They were friends and they were a team. That's how to run an evil campaign (though it was meant to be a comedic one)
fruits and vegetables 02-24-04, 02:59 PM	tell them not to fight each otheR. that always leads to the game falling aparT. explain that to theM. evil can have friendS. evil can work togetheR. evil can have emotions if only poor execution of theM. evil people are not always cut throat/baby raping/party killing/ megalomaniacS. they can be sensible if greedY. in general it takes people above the age of 17 to play evil alignmentS. people and especially guys under that age use it as some form of therepY. whatever social problems they have in life they transpose to their evil character to fulfil acts of anger and vengence that they would like to do to real peoplE. that is my theory anywaY. i am pretty sure if a study was done on this it would prove me righT.