Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EGD Eric 04-19-05, 08:11 PM	I've never used warlocks before, but I thought I'd use the warlocks from the Complete Arcane book as adversaries (The PCs are going to a distant land where there aren't any wizards, but there are warlocks).
Dash Branaghan 04-19-05, 09:34 PM	I just threw one up against the PCs...loads of fun. Warlocks depend on what level they are and what powers you give them. For example, you can give them Devil's Sight and the ability to create darkness...then walk around in their own darkness Eldritch Blasting the players. Or you can play the sniper version who enchants his Eldritch Blast as a spear...ranged touch attack, 250'. Follow up with their Dimension Door ability to go to a different spot and reload. Take out the party spellcaster right off the bat. There are so many options for playing Warlocks...I've totally fallen in love with them. So, if you give me a more specific concept of what you are looking for, I'll be happy to chime in with some ideas. Dash
EGD Eric 04-19-05, 09:52 PM	Thanks for the ideas you've given me so far! I've got another question: If Warlocks can use all of their abilities 'at will', meaning: unlimited times per day, does that mean that they would only use their highest level abilities? For my plot, I'm picturing alot of them working together. I'm gonna have the lowly ones be around lvl 3-4, with the occasional 8-10th level "elder". The party consists of levels: 8-9. I love that "devil's sight" idea. They're also going to have LOTS of lightly armored fighters backing them up (its in a land with very little metal, covered with lots of swampland; so most armor is leather, hide, and even lizard-scale armours with turtle shells for shields: stuff like chainmail was never invented here). Edit: Here's another question: Can a warlock combine multiple eldritch essence/shape invocations to deliver one super eldritch blast?
Dash Branaghan 04-19-05, 10:08 PM	The lower powers are somewhat invaluable in that they grant 24 hour bonuses. The one that boosts acrobatics for 24 hours is a great power that can be taken once the Warlock is higher level. Since a lot of these powers are 24 hours, the Warlock wakes up, casts them, and voila...Devil's Sight, Bonus to Jump/Tumble/Balance, bonus to Bluff/Disguise/Diplomacy. The changes to Eldritch Blast are great, especially Vitriolic Blast, coupled with an Eldritch Spear (long range death missile). So don't let the lower powers fool you...they are still incredibly useful. As far as the conclave goes, the Warlocks should be able to rip the party to pieces (especially if you take Battle Caster as a feat x2...Full Plate wearing Warlocks with no arcane failure, thanks for coming) if played properly...since they can detect magic at will at level 2, they simply focus on who radiates the strongest aura of magic, or who has the holy symbol, and they whomp him from all sides at once...ranged touch attacks are nasty. Dash
Sarella Starshine 04-19-05, 11:51 PM	*takes notes* *looks around* :schemes: :evillaugh :smirk: :plotting: my poor poor party (not)
Dash Branaghan 04-20-05, 12:39 AM	I forgot to mention...Quicken Spell Like Ability, Empower Spell Like Ability, and Ability Focus...nothing like increasing the DC of saves while making the spells simultaneous. Just to let you know, I have a Rakshasa BBEG who has all his sorcerer abilities replaced by Warlock ones (up to level 7). Nasty nasty BBEG. Anytime the party got close, he'd use the Dimension Door (quickened) and get out of range of them...but not of his powers. Find races with high charisma bonuses to make Warlocks (for the difficulty in DC saves). Templates you might consider would be Half Fiend (works really well) and Half Dragon. Dash
myeviltwin 04-20-05, 01:04 AM	Just one note (because I've tried this, and was sad to realize it didn't work too well): Battle Caster x2 lets Warlocks use invocations in Full-Plate, but remember that Warlocks aren't proficient with heavy armor. That means, at the very least, a heavy armor check penalty to EB attack rolls, two more wasted feats, or a level of fighter.
MortalPlague 04-20-05, 04:56 AM	Warlocks are nasty. I had a player go around abusing his grappling hand power, which was frustrating for me as a DM. Every one of my NPCs would be constantly grappled. Anyway, if the party is melee heavy, that may be a power to consider.
EGD Eric 04-20-05, 10:19 PM	especially if you take Battle Caster as a feat x2...Full Plate wearing Warlocks with no arcane failure, thanks for coming Even though I do have access to alot of non-core books (one of my players is a complete compulsive shopper. He can't go into the hobby store without buying a new RPG, he once walked out with finger puppets in the likeness of Froy and Nietche :D ), our campaign is mostly core, and player's have to ask before I allow something that's non-core (though I usually say yes, unless it involves wizards in platemail). Besides, like I said, the warlocks in this land don't even know what plate mail is. They don't even know what a wizard is. So their tactics won't necessarily be perfect, what with these complete strangers coming into their land. Plus, the players might (if they're smart) recruit some help from the area (make your diplomacy checks man :P, lets see how many people you can recruit for your cause to overthrow the current government and reinstall the old one :cool: ). What I don't get is the whole "unlimited casting" thing. They have abilities that last 24 hours, but does it really matter how long it lasts? Even if it lasted 1 hour, couldn't they just cast it again and again anyway? Unless I'm missing something, these abilities are nearly indistinguishable from "always on" abilities. I guess I'm having trouble wrapping my head around someone being able to use all these "spells" without any limiting factor, like spells per day, or "energy". :rolleyes:
ShiverTheBard 04-21-05, 12:01 AM	Yeah, kinda seems overpowered at first but the Warlock is actually only a moderate damage dealer if used by the average person (CO board users not included :schemes:) Yes they can use these "spells" as often as they want but they still provoke AoO's and require Concentration checks when taking damage. As well, they never get more than like twelve unless you blow a bunch of feats on Extra Invocation. Go easy on your PC's if built right, a team of unified Warlocks will eat most players, including experienced ones.
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 05:31 AM	What I don't get is the whole "unlimited casting" thing. They have abilities that last 24 hours, but does it really matter how long it lasts? Even if it lasted 1 hour, couldn't they just cast it again and again anyway? Unless I'm missing something, these abilities are nearly indistinguishable from "always on" abilities. I guess I'm having trouble wrapping my head around someone being able to use all these "spells" without any limiting factor, like spells per day, or "energy". The limiting factor is that they're extremely lacking in flexibility. Even the most narrowly-focused blaster of a sorcerer is a veritable swiss army knife compared to the warlock. What's nice about them, though, is that while each individual warlock is quite narrowly defined, the class as a whole offers lots of options; as a DM you can throw a series of warlocks at your party and have each one be unique and memorable. In fact, assuming your players don't see the brand new copy of Complete Arcane in your stack of books, it may even take them a while to figure out they're all the same class. Plus, for sheer flavor they can't be beat.
Dash Branaghan 04-21-05, 08:22 AM	Just one note (because I've tried this, and was sad to realize it didn't work too well): Battle Caster x2 lets Warlocks use invocations in Full-Plate, but remember that Warlocks aren't proficient with heavy armor. That means, at the very least, a heavy armor check penalty to EB attack rolls, two more wasted feats, or a level of fighter. Which is why, as NPCs, you start them out as fighters, then move into Warlock. Or Start as Warlock, pick up a level of fighter to augment their abilities, etc... Either way, well worth the level taken. Dash
erendor the True 04-21-05, 08:30 AM	Which is why, as NPCs, you start them out as fighters, then move into Warlock. Or Start as Warlock, pick up a level of fighter to augment their abilities, etc... Either way, well worth the level taken. Dash And your PC's will hate you forever! It's a win-win situation! ;) Anyway, I'm now itching to use Warlocks. This board is bad for me... :thinks: Or at least, bad for my PC's :plotting: . It seems that every time I come here, I see a cool new way to make them suffer. Bah!
Dash Branaghan 04-21-05, 08:40 AM	And your PC's will hate you forever! It's a win-win situation! ;) Yep. What was really nasty, (and I may have mentioned this before, not sure), but I put the PCs up against a Rakshasa and substituted all levels of Sorcerer for Warlock (for a total of 7 Warlock levels), then added 3 more for flavor. That is one fight they barely won, but it will **** them off when his minions raise him...especially now that he knows their tactics (mental note: take out the halfling spell caster first). Dash
Warchicken 04-21-05, 11:18 AM	Edit: Here's another question: Can a warlock combine multiple eldritch essence/shape invocations to deliver one super eldritch blast? The most that a Warlock can combine into his EB is a Blast Shape (i.e. Eldritch Spear, Cone.....) and an Eldritch Essence (i.e Noxious, Frightful...). The total equivalent spell level is equal to the highest invocation being applied to the EB.
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 01:17 PM	Which is why, as NPCs, you start them out as fighters, then move into Warlock. Or Start as Warlock, pick up a level of fighter to augment their abilities, etc... Or just give your dragons Warlock levels. :devil:
EGD Eric 04-21-05, 09:41 PM	:cool:
EGD Eric 04-23-05, 11:26 AM	Thanks for all the help guys. I'm thinking of a way to describe the "flee the scene" power. He teleports, leaving a major image behind. 1. "Another version of him appears behind you". They'll think that it's an illusion, and ignore the real warlock behind them the first time around. For some reason 2. Or just, don't describe it it all. His teleporting is real subtle, made so that people don't know he teleported. 3. Describe some flashy effect like the one the villain in "Chronicles of Riddick" has, where he sends his soul somewhere, then just flashes over there. (except here, he leaves an image behind... or not, if that aspect of it doesn't work for me... I know that I don't have to follow everything by the book exactly to the letter, especially since these are NPCs, its more about drama than following the rules exactly) I'm leaning towards 2, since 1 & 3 get too obvious after the first time, though 3 is really dramatic, and 1 is a nasty trick. I could even make it a combination of 1 & 3: The soul is really travelling along (all blue and hazy like) but only a player with the ability to see into the ethereal or whatever can see it (true seeing, see invisibility). Any thoughts?
Dash Branaghan 04-23-05, 12:40 PM	I wouldn't describe squat...the purpose of the major image is that they don't realize he has done anything. So until they attack him, he's still there. The purpose of Flee the Scene is to allow the Warlock at minimum 1 rnd to escape... Dash