Any DMs running survival games? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any DMs running survival games? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tormsskull
04-12-06, 02:03 PM Hi everyone,

I'm just curious to see if any DMs are running old school style survival games. The kind where death can't be fixed just with money, the kind where monsters are vicious creatures unknown to the players, the kind where a magic item they find on the ground really could be anything, the kind where getting to level 5 is a great accomplishment, the kind where the storyline actually makes a difference, the kind where a player doesn't sit down and say "I'm going to start taking x levels of rogue, and by that time I'll be able to obtain suchandsuch item, and take 3 levels of x prestige class."

Run-on sentence aside, is anyone running these types of games anymore?
Board_Rider
04-12-06, 02:17 PM I try to run these types of games. My campaigns are usually titled "Carnage Campaigns" because if the PLayers get too cocky they will be making new characters.

I like to promote the thinking that while PCs are powerful and uber, they are nothing compared to the rest of the world. They must tread lightly at times.
Sereno
04-12-06, 02:31 PM The kind where death can't be fixed just with money

Yes. I'm running an Eberron campaign where high-level friendly NPCs are rare and resurrection magic is hard to come by until the PCs can do it themselves. However, I'm also not running them through deadly encounters that make survival seem nigh impossible.

the kind where monsters are vicious creatures unknown to the players

Nope. *Some* monsters are unknown, and most are certainly vicious, but most of my adventures, so far, have been city-centered and the PCs are pretty familiar with the things that live in cities.

the kind where a magic item they find on the ground really could be anything

Anything? Nope. It's likely to be something that makes sense to be lying on the ground. You're not going to find a great and powerful item just lying around. Items are useful and most of them will be in the hands of creatures intelligent enough to use them.

the kind where getting to level 5 is a great accomplishment

Sort of. In Eberron, you are exceptional just for being an adventurer. To reach 5th level is an accomplishment that most of the world will never have. They are already well-known. Was their survival to 5th level astonishing to me? Not really. They played well and met appropriate challenges.

the kind where the storyline actually makes a difference

Absolutely. Every adventure has been story-driven. Every adventure WILL BE story-driven. Sticking to the pulp-noir theme of Eberron almost REQUIRES storylines that make sense, are engaging, and for which the PCs actually CARE about.

the kind where a player doesn't sit down and say "I'm going to start taking x levels of rogue, and by that time I'll be able to obtain suchandsuch item, and take 3 levels of x prestige class."

I've never seen my players doing this. In fact, one of the PCs (the warforged fighter) got lucky on some AoOs and decided that taking Combat Reflexes was a good idea because they felt that they were getting "good" at AoOs ... not exactly CO Boards thinking ... but certainly great organic growth!
Chrono Nexus
04-12-06, 02:48 PM Ressurection magic in my campaign is not innaccessable... but it is expensive. Almost every encounter could be considered a survival game since each of the players in the group plays an arcanist. Nearly every fight one or more teammates are dropped to the negatives... fortunately only one player has ever died. Also, the DM doesn't reward exp. for ideas, role playing, or for accomplishments, so attaining a new level is an arduous task. As for money... our average party level is about 4.3... Our combined equipment total is that of two second level characters. Oh- did I mention that we have been fighting monsters several levels above our party level? Or that there are usually only three members present at a time? And so far, we have not fought any monsters we recognize except goblins and orks.
spoogemonkey
04-12-06, 03:14 PM PCs die in my campaigns - not every night, but every 3 months... and they rarely, rarely ever get raised (though I seem to recall that one came back as a badger)...

I have actually run a "survival campaign", not old school D&D like you describe, but SURVIVAL. The party members were all 13 yr old American Indian boys that had been abandoned by their tribe in the woods of northern Arkansas in the 1800s.. they each had a water skin and a dagger and two days rations.... (they ran from prarie dogs)

They were not allowed to achieve Manhood (level 1) until they had slain a predator beast of their own size and bedded a woman (had to use different skills :) )

They were FORCED to contend with wolves, bears, stampedes.... and had to secure shelter, food, clothing.... etc...

Now, THAT is a survival campaign!
JayDubya
04-12-06, 04:53 PM I'll be running "survival horror" Eberron on Friday, Capcom style, thanks to Oakspar. =P

I expect it to be harder, though. Resident Evil never made you worry about food and water. I doubt Chris or Jill were level ones. I think the lack of shotguns might be noticed. And so on. At any rate, one thing that always bothered me about RE is that the zombie bite spread the disease, but you didn't have to worry about getting bitten - you know, hero immunity, the same thing that gets overused in say, War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise. Well none of that here, and no "first aid sprays" (you know, I might include one as a joke wondrous item if I thought any of my players would get the reference).

Everytime I played those games and ran low on ammo (this only happened in the first ones, mind you), I always wanted a sword or some kind of decent melee weapon in those games other than that dinky knife. I figured if you could get some old school armor and a decent melee weapon you could start hacking off zombie heads... well, my players are going to be finding out pretty darn soon. :evillaugh
kelvinaw273
04-12-06, 05:13 PM I am in an Eberron campaign where we all started off at 1st level, living in a little village and just learning about the world. We have just hit 3rd level and consider it a great accomplishment!

I am also prepping a campaign where I plan to start the characters at '0th' level (actually 1st level commoners, stat wise) where they will have to work hard just to get to 1st level. Not easy, when a goblin who forcefully expectorates in your direction can knock you for six.
StormKnight
04-12-06, 05:51 PM Storyline games, where magic/monsters/classes are more meaningful than a set of numbers? Sure.

High storyline games where I expect the PC group to change thanks to character death on a regular basis? Thanks, no, I'd rather stay sane.
vitomancer3
04-12-06, 07:12 PM In my horror game, resurrection is free. They each have res signets, ala Guild Wars. I don't think death is a good deterrent. Dismemberment, blindness, one's tongue ripped out...these are problems. Currently the players are missing toes due to a particularly strange form of cannibal zombie. My CR's for the first level game are 4,3,3,4,5. It's great!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tormsskull 04-12-06, 02:03 PM	Hi everyone, I'm just curious to see if any DMs are running old school style survival games. The kind where death can't be fixed just with money, the kind where monsters are vicious creatures unknown to the players, the kind where a magic item they find on the ground really could be anything, the kind where getting to level 5 is a great accomplishment, the kind where the storyline actually makes a difference, the kind where a player doesn't sit down and say "I'm going to start taking x levels of rogue, and by that time I'll be able to obtain suchandsuch item, and take 3 levels of x prestige class." Run-on sentence aside, is anyone running these types of games anymore?
Board_Rider 04-12-06, 02:17 PM	I try to run these types of games. My campaigns are usually titled "Carnage Campaigns" because if the PLayers get too cocky they will be making new characters. I like to promote the thinking that while PCs are powerful and uber, they are nothing compared to the rest of the world. They must tread lightly at times.
Sereno 04-12-06, 02:31 PM	The kind where death can't be fixed just with money Yes. I'm running an Eberron campaign where high-level friendly NPCs are rare and resurrection magic is hard to come by until the PCs can do it themselves. However, I'm also not running them through deadly encounters that make survival seem nigh impossible. the kind where monsters are vicious creatures unknown to the players Nope. Some monsters are unknown, and most are certainly vicious, but most of my adventures, so far, have been city-centered and the PCs are pretty familiar with the things that live in cities. the kind where a magic item they find on the ground really could be anything Anything? Nope. It's likely to be something that makes sense to be lying on the ground. You're not going to find a great and powerful item just lying around. Items are useful and most of them will be in the hands of creatures intelligent enough to use them. the kind where getting to level 5 is a great accomplishment Sort of. In Eberron, you are exceptional just for being an adventurer. To reach 5th level is an accomplishment that most of the world will never have. They are already well-known. Was their survival to 5th level astonishing to me? Not really. They played well and met appropriate challenges. the kind where the storyline actually makes a difference Absolutely. Every adventure has been story-driven. Every adventure WILL BE story-driven. Sticking to the pulp-noir theme of Eberron almost REQUIRES storylines that make sense, are engaging, and for which the PCs actually CARE about. the kind where a player doesn't sit down and say "I'm going to start taking x levels of rogue, and by that time I'll be able to obtain suchandsuch item, and take 3 levels of x prestige class." I've never seen my players doing this. In fact, one of the PCs (the warforged fighter) got lucky on some AoOs and decided that taking Combat Reflexes was a good idea because they felt that they were getting "good" at AoOs ... not exactly CO Boards thinking ... but certainly great organic growth!
Chrono Nexus 04-12-06, 02:48 PM	Ressurection magic in my campaign is not innaccessable... but it is expensive. Almost every encounter could be considered a survival game since each of the players in the group plays an arcanist. Nearly every fight one or more teammates are dropped to the negatives... fortunately only one player has ever died. Also, the DM doesn't reward exp. for ideas, role playing, or for accomplishments, so attaining a new level is an arduous task. As for money... our average party level is about 4.3... Our combined equipment total is that of two second level characters. Oh- did I mention that we have been fighting monsters several levels above our party level? Or that there are usually only three members present at a time? And so far, we have not fought any monsters we recognize except goblins and orks.
spoogemonkey 04-12-06, 03:14 PM	PCs die in my campaigns - not every night, but every 3 months... and they rarely, rarely ever get raised (though I seem to recall that one came back as a badger)... I have actually run a "survival campaign", not old school D&D like you describe, but SURVIVAL. The party members were all 13 yr old American Indian boys that had been abandoned by their tribe in the woods of northern Arkansas in the 1800s.. they each had a water skin and a dagger and two days rations.... (they ran from prarie dogs) They were not allowed to achieve Manhood (level 1) until they had slain a predator beast of their own size and bedded a woman (had to use different skills :) ) They were FORCED to contend with wolves, bears, stampedes.... and had to secure shelter, food, clothing.... etc... Now, THAT is a survival campaign!
JayDubya 04-12-06, 04:53 PM	I'll be running "survival horror" Eberron on Friday, Capcom style, thanks to Oakspar. =P I expect it to be harder, though. Resident Evil never made you worry about food and water. I doubt Chris or Jill were level ones. I think the lack of shotguns might be noticed. And so on. At any rate, one thing that always bothered me about RE is that the zombie bite spread the disease, but you didn't have to worry about getting bitten - you know, hero immunity, the same thing that gets overused in say, War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise. Well none of that here, and no "first aid sprays" (you know, I might include one as a joke wondrous item if I thought any of my players would get the reference). Everytime I played those games and ran low on ammo (this only happened in the first ones, mind you), I always wanted a sword or some kind of decent melee weapon in those games other than that dinky knife. I figured if you could get some old school armor and a decent melee weapon you could start hacking off zombie heads... well, my players are going to be finding out pretty darn soon. :evillaugh
kelvinaw273 04-12-06, 05:13 PM	I am in an Eberron campaign where we all started off at 1st level, living in a little village and just learning about the world. We have just hit 3rd level and consider it a great accomplishment! I am also prepping a campaign where I plan to start the characters at '0th' level (actually 1st level commoners, stat wise) where they will have to work hard just to get to 1st level. Not easy, when a goblin who forcefully expectorates in your direction can knock you for six.
StormKnight 04-12-06, 05:51 PM	Storyline games, where magic/monsters/classes are more meaningful than a set of numbers? Sure. High storyline games where I expect the PC group to change thanks to character death on a regular basis? Thanks, no, I'd rather stay sane.
vitomancer3 04-12-06, 07:12 PM	In my horror game, resurrection is free. They each have res signets, ala Guild Wars. I don't think death is a good deterrent. Dismemberment, blindness, one's tongue ripped out...these are problems. Currently the players are missing toes due to a particularly strange form of cannibal zombie. My CR's for the first level game are 4,3,3,4,5. It's great!