Any Good Ideas on keeping the combat moving? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any Good Ideas on keeping the combat moving? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Auron Silverborne
12-28-04, 10:45 PM I'm about ready to launch a campaign with 8 pc's. There are a couple that tend to take their time deciding what to do and as a result, combat tends to take alot longer than it should. As for my part, I make sure I'm well prepaired. I dont need to waste time reading spell descriptions and abbilities for monsters so my turn as dm goes pretty quick. The players are another story. I'm looking for any tested Ideas or things people out there use to keep things moving. I'm hopeing somone has something they use that works.

Thanks in advance
clarkvalentine
12-28-04, 10:56 PM A few ideas.

- Ask players to roll attacks and damage at the same time, and give you both numbers.

- Ask players to know how their own spells work. They need to know this by the time their turn comes up.

- Type up some crib sheets for the players summarizing the rules for common combat actions (AoO, trips, bull rush, grappling, etc.) Include PHB page numbers for more detailed references. Bring them to every session for easy reference.

- Pre-cacluate bonuses on the characters' PC sheets.

- Avoid hard time limits unless it really becomes absolutely necessary. Sometimes you need a second to re-evaluate your move if something big happens right before your go.
Saiph
12-28-04, 11:58 PM ask people to do their best to figure out their moves while everyone else is going. My players have a tendancy to chit chat while another person rolls, and then need a minute to reorient themselves.

Ask people to submit a few strategies to you, as to what their character would do facing a big melee monster w/ reach, a melee fighter, a heavily magical creature (say an elemental or demon) and a spell caster. How they'd handle these solo (or mostly independently) and with another person or two from the group...i.e. have the fighter grapple the wizard while I feeblemind him.

That way they've got an idea of how to handle a few of these things before they run into it. They've established a standard operating procedure. This is key with complex characters like trip-monkeys or grapplers.

It also gives you a chance to see what the players are up to, or perhaps where they're struggling (like why didn't the wizard cast a single will save spell on the brute?)

Other than that, make sure people are familiar with their character sheet, and that it is organized in general (spell DC's by the spells). That they have plenty of pre-calculated values (e.g. AC, flatfooted, touch).

You may want the spell casters to create a cribsheet, like the short descriptions in the PHB. But the players should have duration, damage (or other values), saves and range. E.g. Hold Person: Paralyzes one person, ___ duration ____ range (no phb handy) Save: Will SR: Y

Note: I usually bury the range in the middle, as it isn't needed often.
krichaiushii
12-29-04, 12:03 AM I agree with clarkvalentine except for the hard time limits. Some people only decide (right or wrong) when they are forced too. Setting a time per person does this.

As your campaign is just getting started, discuss the amount of time with the players. I have heard of 6 seconds to 2 minutes and all points in between.

After they think they have a time, get out a timer or stop watch and determine just how long their limit really is. See if you can't shorten it.

With the time limit, have a rule that states: if you dither past the time limit, your PC is decided to be holding his action. Too bad if you lose a good initiative.

I have found hard time limits to keep the players focused even when its not their turn.

Also, consider the playing environment. If there is a TV on, someone is on their cell phone (nonemergency), card games, and out of game conversations, combat (and the rest of the game) is going to move like pond water in January. The fewer distractions, the better.
Saiph
12-29-04, 12:07 AM oh, and initiative cards. Get everybody to put their name on an index card. Then order them via initiative, where everyone can see. Line them up on the table basically.

When someone readies an action, indent the card in the line (i.e. slightly to the side) and ask the player to pay attention, as you may forget it. When they take it, move them into position right in front of the provoker's initiative, as appropriate.

When someone delays, hand them thier card. They can then place it where they want, when they want to. Remind them that when they do, they act after the person's turn they jump in on. I.e. if you say, okay, now the bbeg starts casting a spell, and they jump in...they do so after he finishes. If they want to avoid this, they can just put their card right in front of the BBEG.

If you think they're taking overly long, ask them to hurry up a bit. Then warn them, then delay their action (like they'd just wanted to do it). 1) Tell the players about this beforhand, so they're prepped for it. 2) Encourage the players to delay on their own. 3) Allow a good amount of time in general, and a lot of time for sticky situations...e.g. to heal dying friend or try to finish off the BBEG.
e-z0r
12-29-04, 12:13 AM Have you ever heard of a game called Alias? It's a word explanation game where you battle the clock with your teammate(s), with one teammate as the explainer and others as guessers.. Well, we've got that game, and it has this neat small hourglass with about 53 seconds or so in it. I picked it up once and have been having it in my pencil bag ever since. It's great for just this occasion. I prefer it to a stopwatch since it's more authentic in a way, plus it's more visual. Players get to see the sand running out on them if they don't do anything.

Of course it doesn't have to be THE timeglass from Alias the game, but that was just how I found mine. :)

One thing, about spellcasters, you could photocopy the pages with the spell descriptions (or print them from an SRD) and give them for the spellcasters to keep a hold on while you're playing, so it frees up the PHB and let's the spellcasters read up on spells before they need to use them.
Stuntman
12-29-04, 02:10 PM Time limits is an option. It does force players (especially indecisive ones) to make a decision. If they take too long, they basically delay until after the next character's actions. That way you have a hard time limit and the penalty is small enough that they don't lose a whole round of actions if they take too long.

Just be careful that your time limit is not too high. If it is a minute or more, you may find that everyone takes the full minute even if they don't need it. Something from 15-30 seconds should be enough unless you have a character that has a very high movement.

One thing that slows games down in one of my groups is players making suggestions to other players during other players' turns. Big debates arise from time to time regarding what one player should do. Speaking is a free action, but each round is only 6 seconds long. If players are indecisive and are having a huddle before every player's turn, the time limit and the limit on how much can be discuss may need to be enforced.
Thoronmir
12-29-04, 02:42 PM One thing that keeps us moving with alacrity is using an Initiative Table. It’s a form I created to track initiatives and actions. The table’s rows list the combatants (good guys and bad guys) and each person’s initiative. There are enough empty rows to track up to 20 PCs, NPCs, etc., in one combat. The table’s columns represent the Round of initiative. When someone acts, you check off their box under that Round. If someone’s Initiative score changes, you write the new score in their box in the Round in which it changed. I assign one of the players to track Initiative and check off actions (I actually let my players do a lot of my work when I DM).

BTW, this table also helps keep track of spell durations during combat. I make a note behind the screen as to how long a spell will last and tell the player tracking initiative for me to place a star in that character’s box in the round the spell takes effect. I also use to keep track of any “clock” events … e.g., the party must reach the altar within 10 rounds or the Demon escapes.

As for players debating what someone ought to do with his turn, it’s true that talking is a Free Action but, as noted, a Round is only six seconds. It takes longer than that to call a play in the NFL … good luck managing a strategy session in such time. My solution … a PC can say whatever he wants for six seconds per round then the player needs to shut up. Once my players realized that combat in my campaign was not going to degenerate into an Oprah episode, they became very selective about their in-game tactical oratories. If you burn your six seconds to explain to the Wizard why he ought to cast some spell, you won’t be able to warn the Cleric about the Troll that’s sneaking up behind her.

I’m probably most lax on casters since they have so much more to memorize than melee PCs. I make it my burden to know all my PC’s skills and feats … and his tactics as well. The time to figure out the DC for a swashbuckling move isn’t during the game. Anticipate such matters so that you can analyze the applicable rules in a relaxed environment. Still, with all I need to know as a Ranger/Rogue, I do not envy casters.

I’ve used the “Okay, you can’t decide what to do so your PC is holding his action” rule and I think it’s a fair approach.
clarkvalentine
12-29-04, 11:12 PM I agree with clarkvalentine except for the hard time limits. Some people only decide (right or wrong) when they are forced too. Setting a time per person does this.

Certainly keep it as an option, but personally I'd recommend only implementing it if it really becomes necessary. A hard time limit can be a pretty draconian thing. See if your players need it first - if they don't, it's usually best to let the occasional dithering slide a bit.

A hard time limit simply wouldn't work with my group, for instance - there are just too many unavoidable distractions, as several of the players (as are the GMs, for that matter) are parents of young children who sometimes require attention to be divided.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Auron Silverborne 12-28-04, 10:45 PM	I'm about ready to launch a campaign with 8 pc's. There are a couple that tend to take their time deciding what to do and as a result, combat tends to take alot longer than it should. As for my part, I make sure I'm well prepaired. I dont need to waste time reading spell descriptions and abbilities for monsters so my turn as dm goes pretty quick. The players are another story. I'm looking for any tested Ideas or things people out there use to keep things moving. I'm hopeing somone has something they use that works. Thanks in advance
clarkvalentine 12-28-04, 10:56 PM	A few ideas. - Ask players to roll attacks and damage at the same time, and give you both numbers. - Ask players to know how their own spells work. They need to know this by the time their turn comes up. - Type up some crib sheets for the players summarizing the rules for common combat actions (AoO, trips, bull rush, grappling, etc.) Include PHB page numbers for more detailed references. Bring them to every session for easy reference. - Pre-cacluate bonuses on the characters' PC sheets. - Avoid hard time limits unless it really becomes absolutely necessary. Sometimes you need a second to re-evaluate your move if something big happens right before your go.
Saiph 12-28-04, 11:58 PM	ask people to do their best to figure out their moves while everyone else is going. My players have a tendancy to chit chat while another person rolls, and then need a minute to reorient themselves. Ask people to submit a few strategies to you, as to what their character would do facing a big melee monster w/ reach, a melee fighter, a heavily magical creature (say an elemental or demon) and a spell caster. How they'd handle these solo (or mostly independently) and with another person or two from the group...i.e. have the fighter grapple the wizard while I feeblemind him. That way they've got an idea of how to handle a few of these things before they run into it. They've established a standard operating procedure. This is key with complex characters like trip-monkeys or grapplers. It also gives you a chance to see what the players are up to, or perhaps where they're struggling (like why didn't the wizard cast a single will save spell on the brute?) Other than that, make sure people are familiar with their character sheet, and that it is organized in general (spell DC's by the spells). That they have plenty of pre-calculated values (e.g. AC, flatfooted, touch). You may want the spell casters to create a cribsheet, like the short descriptions in the PHB. But the players should have duration, damage (or other values), saves and range. E.g. Hold Person: Paralyzes one person, ___ duration ____ range (no phb handy) Save: Will SR: Y Note: I usually bury the range in the middle, as it isn't needed often.
krichaiushii 12-29-04, 12:03 AM	I agree with clarkvalentine except for the hard time limits. Some people only decide (right or wrong) when they are forced too. Setting a time per person does this. As your campaign is just getting started, discuss the amount of time with the players. I have heard of 6 seconds to 2 minutes and all points in between. After they think they have a time, get out a timer or stop watch and determine just how long their limit really is. See if you can't shorten it. With the time limit, have a rule that states: if you dither past the time limit, your PC is decided to be holding his action. Too bad if you lose a good initiative. I have found hard time limits to keep the players focused even when its not their turn. Also, consider the playing environment. If there is a TV on, someone is on their cell phone (nonemergency), card games, and out of game conversations, combat (and the rest of the game) is going to move like pond water in January. The fewer distractions, the better.
Saiph 12-29-04, 12:07 AM	oh, and initiative cards. Get everybody to put their name on an index card. Then order them via initiative, where everyone can see. Line them up on the table basically. When someone readies an action, indent the card in the line (i.e. slightly to the side) and ask the player to pay attention, as you may forget it. When they take it, move them into position right in front of the provoker's initiative, as appropriate. When someone delays, hand them thier card. They can then place it where they want, when they want to. Remind them that when they do, they act after the person's turn they jump in on. I.e. if you say, okay, now the bbeg starts casting a spell, and they jump in...they do so after he finishes. If they want to avoid this, they can just put their card right in front of the BBEG. If you think they're taking overly long, ask them to hurry up a bit. Then warn them, then delay their action (like they'd just wanted to do it). 1) Tell the players about this beforhand, so they're prepped for it. 2) Encourage the players to delay on their own. 3) Allow a good amount of time in general, and a lot of time for sticky situations...e.g. to heal dying friend or try to finish off the BBEG.
e-z0r 12-29-04, 12:13 AM	Have you ever heard of a game called Alias? It's a word explanation game where you battle the clock with your teammate(s), with one teammate as the explainer and others as guessers.. Well, we've got that game, and it has this neat small hourglass with about 53 seconds or so in it. I picked it up once and have been having it in my pencil bag ever since. It's great for just this occasion. I prefer it to a stopwatch since it's more authentic in a way, plus it's more visual. Players get to see the sand running out on them if they don't do anything. Of course it doesn't have to be THE timeglass from Alias the game, but that was just how I found mine. :) One thing, about spellcasters, you could photocopy the pages with the spell descriptions (or print them from an SRD) and give them for the spellcasters to keep a hold on while you're playing, so it frees up the PHB and let's the spellcasters read up on spells before they need to use them.
Stuntman 12-29-04, 02:10 PM	Time limits is an option. It does force players (especially indecisive ones) to make a decision. If they take too long, they basically delay until after the next character's actions. That way you have a hard time limit and the penalty is small enough that they don't lose a whole round of actions if they take too long. Just be careful that your time limit is not too high. If it is a minute or more, you may find that everyone takes the full minute even if they don't need it. Something from 15-30 seconds should be enough unless you have a character that has a very high movement. One thing that slows games down in one of my groups is players making suggestions to other players during other players' turns. Big debates arise from time to time regarding what one player should do. Speaking is a free action, but each round is only 6 seconds long. If players are indecisive and are having a huddle before every player's turn, the time limit and the limit on how much can be discuss may need to be enforced.
Thoronmir 12-29-04, 02:42 PM	One thing that keeps us moving with alacrity is using an Initiative Table. It’s a form I created to track initiatives and actions. The table’s rows list the combatants (good guys and bad guys) and each person’s initiative. There are enough empty rows to track up to 20 PCs, NPCs, etc., in one combat. The table’s columns represent the Round of initiative. When someone acts, you check off their box under that Round. If someone’s Initiative score changes, you write the new score in their box in the Round in which it changed. I assign one of the players to track Initiative and check off actions (I actually let my players do a lot of my work when I DM). BTW, this table also helps keep track of spell durations during combat. I make a note behind the screen as to how long a spell will last and tell the player tracking initiative for me to place a star in that character’s box in the round the spell takes effect. I also use to keep track of any “clock” events … e.g., the party must reach the altar within 10 rounds or the Demon escapes. As for players debating what someone ought to do with his turn, it’s true that talking is a Free Action but, as noted, a Round is only six seconds. It takes longer than that to call a play in the NFL … good luck managing a strategy session in such time. My solution … a PC can say whatever he wants for six seconds per round then the player needs to shut up. Once my players realized that combat in my campaign was not going to degenerate into an Oprah episode, they became very selective about their in-game tactical oratories. If you burn your six seconds to explain to the Wizard why he ought to cast some spell, you won’t be able to warn the Cleric about the Troll that’s sneaking up behind her. I’m probably most lax on casters since they have so much more to memorize than melee PCs. I make it my burden to know all my PC’s skills and feats … and his tactics as well. The time to figure out the DC for a swashbuckling move isn’t during the game. Anticipate such matters so that you can analyze the applicable rules in a relaxed environment. Still, with all I need to know as a Ranger/Rogue, I do not envy casters. I’ve used the “Okay, you can’t decide what to do so your PC is holding his action” rule and I think it’s a fair approach.
clarkvalentine 12-29-04, 11:12 PM	I agree with clarkvalentine except for the hard time limits. Some people only decide (right or wrong) when they are forced too. Setting a time per person does this. Certainly keep it as an option, but personally I'd recommend only implementing it if it really becomes necessary. A hard time limit can be a pretty draconian thing. See if your players need it first - if they don't, it's usually best to let the occasional dithering slide a bit. A hard time limit simply wouldn't work with my group, for instance - there are just too many unavoidable distractions, as several of the players (as are the GMs, for that matter) are parents of young children who sometimes require attention to be divided.