Any tips on DMing a murder mystery? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any tips on DMing a murder mystery? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lesliweird
12-28-05, 10:51 AM Like the title says- does anyone have any good hints on DMing a murder mystery?

how does one keep it challenging enough that players are entertained but not so obtuse that they get bored and frustrated?

What are good ways to plant clues?

How complex is it reasonable to make it?

For those of you who've done it before, was there any specific trick to engineering it?
PenderGrass
12-28-05, 11:14 AM Like the title says- does anyone have any good hints on DMing a murder mystery?
Yes.
how does one keep it challenging enough that players are entertained but not so obtuse that they get bored and frustrated?
Unfortunately, you will always tread that dangerous line when you design any adventure. But, don't despair and do your best to adapt and overcome as the situation calls for in-game.
What are good ways to plant clues?
Don't. Planting clues indicates a set area where a clue can only be found - don't rely on your players to look in places that you think are obvious. Keep your clues as fluid as possible - planting them where they can only be obtained in one spot, or by specific actions, is the sure way to end your game in frustration.

Example: The Mayor has been murdered by an apparent kobold attack. His body is riddled with arrows. The arrows seem to be of kobold manufacture. They aren't. The PCs may have the skill to know this. If they don't detect this fact, have the coroner contact them a day later and inform them that there is something "wrong" about these kobold arrows - "I grew up in the kobold badlands, and these arrowheads are definitely not made from the normal stones that come from anywhere I have seen."
How complex is it reasonable to make it?
As complex as you have time to write.
For those of you who've done it before, was there any specific trick to engineering it?
Write it all out. Quick notes work well. Mental notes are good as well.

Make sure to have any and all NPCs detailed as to what they know, who they know, what they are willing to say, etc.

Have the timeline detailed out. Where was everyone when things went down? What is everyone doing - or going to do - now that the deed is done?

Spend time with your mystery - think about how your NPCs will react to questioning, probing, spying, etc.

Consider magic divination. What types of spells will the PCs likely use from their own lists? What is available to them? Why aren't higher authorities involved - and if they are why are they not solving everything on their own?

Be sure to not make things harder if your PCs are solving everything too fast - let them. In fact, congratulate them on their fast mystery-solving skills and hand out xp. Placing obstacles in their way to make things last longer is wrong - don't do it.

Conversely, don't make things easier on them either - it is okay if the bad guy(s) get away. Let them know of their failure and also give them opportunity to catch the criminals later on. Recurring villains are built in this way.

:dragon:
****
Melichor
12-28-05, 12:22 PM ... Planting clues indicates a set area where a clue can only be found - don't rely on your players to look in places that you think are obvious. Keep your clues as fluid as possible - planting them where they can only be obtained in one spot, or by specific actions, is the sure way to end your game in frustration.

Example: The Mayor has been murdered by an apparent kobold attack. His body is riddled with arrows. The arrows seem to be of kobold manufacture. They aren't. The PCs may have the skill to know this. If they don't detect this fact, have the coroner contact them a day later and inform them that there is something "wrong" about these kobold arrows - "I grew up in the kobold badlands, and these arrowheads are definitely not made from the normal stones that come from anywhere I have seen."Conversely, don't make things easier on them either - it is okay if the bad guy(s) get away. Let them know of their failure and also give them opportunity to catch the criminals later on. Recurring villains are built in this way.

Which do you recommend exactly?
Hand the clues to them if they don't get them?
Or don't make things easier on them?

If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them?
Steel Cobra
12-28-05, 12:39 PM If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them?
Beginner mistake. If your PCs are new to the whole mystery thing give them some slack, but slowly pull in that slack. Maybe even include a comment out of game that "you guys start having to thing out of the box and useing all your resources." Let it slide once MAYBE twice but make a habit of it and they will not even search they know that an NPC will come to them with an anwser.
cmrscorpio
12-28-05, 12:49 PM The biggest tip for running a murder mystery is to know exactly what kinds of divination spells your characters can cast. Even at 5th level, clerics get Speak with Dead, which can easily render most murder mysteries pointless as the PCs simply ask the corpse "Did so and so kill you?" There are plenty of other spells that can make investigations very short. Even Detect Evil can be used to create a short list of suspects. Zone of Truth, Discern Lies, and Detect Thoughts can all ruin your well-planned investigation. Charm Person might even cause your murderer or a conspirator to spill the beans if the NPC is the kind of person who would confess to well-trusted friends. Particularly wealthy (or higher level) murderers should have access to anti-divination/anti-charm magic.
PenderGrass
12-28-05, 12:53 PM Which do you recommend exactly?
Hand the clues to them if they don't get them?
Or don't make things easier on them?

If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them?
Why?

Because if you watch any good crime mystery shows/movies or read any books with these themes, you will always see that some clues may escape the view of the main characters only to be pointed out by an NPC. Just because an NPC may point out the arrow clue to the PCs doesn't mean that they know who made them, why they made them, where they came from or any other hundred questions that arise from such a clue. Also, notice that I indicated that this information comes to them a day later, given that a criminal may be operating on a timeline - this late info places the pressure on the PCs (it may be too late, in fact).

Clues should be listed when designing this type of adventure, as such:

1. Arrow manufacturing is not Kobold.
2. Mayor has advertisement from a local Madame's House in his pocket.
3. Mayor's boots have clay from harbor on them.
4. Mayor's house is filled with illegal drugs and clay prints made from barefeet.
5. Mayor was known to have affection for halfling women.
etc.

These clues may be important or not, and it is up to the PCs how they deal with them. They may be following up the clues of halfling hookers and spurned boyfriends when in actuality the real criminal planted all of these clues and the only real clue is that the advertisement from the Madame's House is planted.

If the PCs follow the clues in the "wrong" way - don't disuade them by making up clues after the game has started. Let them fall on their faces if that is what happens. Let the timeline roll out as it may-

DAY 21: THE MURDERER SAFELY CONDUCTS THE DRUGS ACROSS THE BORDER.

Clues should never solve the crime, only point to information that allows a satisfactory outcome.

:dragon:
****
mike_beavers
12-28-05, 03:05 PM I read a book on about creating murder mysteries and the number one thing that was recommended was to work backwords from the actual murder. Also another poster mentioned that you would probably need the players to actually be low level as to prevent magical dectection
Jack Greylock
12-28-05, 03:08 PM Remember D&D is about Characters solving problems not Players. So in the case of a mystery, spend a lot of time thinking about skills characters might use to help them solve the mystery (spot, search, gather information, diplomacy, sense motive, appraise, listen, disable device, knowledge, spellcraft) and come up with all the required DC’s ahead of time. Never penalize a player for being dumber then his character, by not allowing them a skill check to figure basic facts out.

Also if at any time players seem to be getting bored looking for clues, never be afraid to have a guy kick in the door and start a fight with them, this can be a great way to spur players on, revive bored players, and provide further clues that the players might have missed.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
12-28-05, 04:45 PM Also, think about the measures the murderer would have taken to conceal any clues. In a magical setting, any hitman worth his salt would likely have at least a workable antidetection item.

Also, many divination magics aren't as useful as some players may think. Detect Evil may tell you who in the area is evil, but it does not distinguish Good and Neutral from Evil. As such, you have a short list of people you know are likely to have evil thoughts, but not all evil characters are killers (such as the racist innkeeper who charges elves double, or the merchant who will knowingly sell you flimsy wares unless you pay masterwork prices for mundane items, all the while spreading rumors about how unfit the other merchants' wares are and driving them out of business). In D&D, even Good and Neutral characters may be murderers. Think about how many times you hear about Paladins slaying anyone who shows up even vaguely in their "Evil-dar". This fits in with modern times in which you have terrorists doing what they believe to be "good" but what others plainly see to be evil.

As for Speak with Dead, not everyone sees their killer or knows them. For that matter, in a magical setting, their killers may well use Disguise Self to get close to their prey, knowing full well that Speak with Dead would be one of the first divinations used in the investigation.
wrecan
12-28-05, 06:19 PM As for Speak with Dead, not everyone sees their killer or knows them. For that matter, in a magical setting, their killers may well use Disguise Self to get close to their prey, knowing full well that Speak with Dead would be one of the first divinations used in the investigation.

Yep. Nothing like having a cleric cast Speak With Dead, ask "Who killed you" and have the victim say, "You did." :devil:
oximoron
12-28-05, 06:39 PM your murderer probably knows this about speak with dead

the body must be mostly intact to be able to respond. A damaged corpse may be able to give partial answers or partially correct answers, but it must at least have a mouth in order to speak at all.
mcmurphy510
12-28-05, 09:54 PM You've got a lot of good suggestions here allready, so I'll keep this short.

You can run a murder mystery at virtually any level. I just ran one for my 10th level party and it went over quite well. You just have to be aware of what divinations your PCs will have access to and find a way to deal with them.

If the mayor was killed from behind for example, or the attacker was invisible, speak with dead will not tell alot about the attacker's identity. Anyone involved probably ougut to keep a few doeses of potions of undectable lie (or something like that) on hand... which would be clues themselves.

If you have the old 2e book 'Four From Cormyr' they have an EXECELLENT murder mystery in there with plenty of ideas of to undertake it. It might even be available as a download on the WotC site???
Caine_The_Unholy
12-28-05, 10:25 PM How I would do it: Make it a one shot, sit down four about eight hours and solve you a mystery. Have each player make an eccentric character (preferably beforehand, so they can better flesh out the character) and make one of them the murderer. Start with NPCs, then dangle the prospect of a PC dying over their heads.

It could be a duke's royal ball or something.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
12-29-05, 04:05 AM And I just remembered another thing that may help that we carry at the comic book store I work at...

Dungeons and Dragons Clue. Who killed the Archmage? Was it Mialee in the Dragon's lair? Or Was it Tordek, in the... yada yada yada...

Yes, they do make it. No, we haven't sold (m)any of them :P
KJW
12-29-05, 02:18 PM I have run a few murder mysteries and all of Pendergrass' advice is excellent, I only have a few minor points. A good murder is a complex murder with flexible clues.

As for Speak with Dead, read the spell description. Limited number of questions and once cast you cannot use it again on the corpse for a week. it is the same with Commune, you need to know the right questions to get good answers. I have recently ran a solo campaign with a cleric and she has performed all sorts of investigations, but uses Speak with Dead only as a last resort to confirm her theory of the murder.

IMC I have one prestige class that is protected by divine magic when they commit special murders and crimes. This divine magic redirects divinations towards an innocent subject and these individuals always appear as likable innocent bystanders. Conventional detective work is often the best way to root these villains out.

Have fun, mysteries are hard, and it takes a little practice to nail them, but it is a great skill to have as a DM.
Caine_The_Unholy
12-29-05, 02:41 PM And I just remembered another thing that may help that we carry at the comic book store I work at...

Dungeons and Dragons Clue. Who killed the Archmage? Was it Mialee in the Dragon's lair? Or Was it Tordek, in the... yada yada yada...

Yes, they do make it. No, we haven't sold (m)any of them :P

Sweet jesus I want it. I need a new clue game :D
mcmurphy510
12-29-05, 09:46 PM Here is the link to "Four From Cormyr" (refrenced above), in which is an execellent murder mystery that you can either run straight off (after converting to 3.5) or take some good ideas from... look for the section called "Murder Most Magical"

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lesliweird 12-28-05, 10:51 AM	Like the title says- does anyone have any good hints on DMing a murder mystery? how does one keep it challenging enough that players are entertained but not so obtuse that they get bored and frustrated? What are good ways to plant clues? How complex is it reasonable to make it? For those of you who've done it before, was there any specific trick to engineering it?
PenderGrass 12-28-05, 11:14 AM	Like the title says- does anyone have any good hints on DMing a murder mystery? Yes. how does one keep it challenging enough that players are entertained but not so obtuse that they get bored and frustrated? Unfortunately, you will always tread that dangerous line when you design any adventure. But, don't despair and do your best to adapt and overcome as the situation calls for in-game. What are good ways to plant clues? Don't. Planting clues indicates a set area where a clue can only be found - don't rely on your players to look in places that you think are obvious. Keep your clues as fluid as possible - planting them where they can only be obtained in one spot, or by specific actions, is the sure way to end your game in frustration. Example: The Mayor has been murdered by an apparent kobold attack. His body is riddled with arrows. The arrows seem to be of kobold manufacture. They aren't. The PCs may have the skill to know this. If they don't detect this fact, have the coroner contact them a day later and inform them that there is something "wrong" about these kobold arrows - "I grew up in the kobold badlands, and these arrowheads are definitely not made from the normal stones that come from anywhere I have seen." How complex is it reasonable to make it? As complex as you have time to write. For those of you who've done it before, was there any specific trick to engineering it? Write it all out. Quick notes work well. Mental notes are good as well. Make sure to have any and all NPCs detailed as to what they know, who they know, what they are willing to say, etc. Have the timeline detailed out. Where was everyone when things went down? What is everyone doing - or going to do - now that the deed is done? Spend time with your mystery - think about how your NPCs will react to questioning, probing, spying, etc. Consider magic divination. What types of spells will the PCs likely use from their own lists? What is available to them? Why aren't higher authorities involved - and if they are why are they not solving everything on their own? Be sure to not make things harder if your PCs are solving everything too fast - let them. In fact, congratulate them on their fast mystery-solving skills and hand out xp. Placing obstacles in their way to make things last longer is wrong - don't do it. Conversely, don't make things easier on them either - it is okay if the bad guy(s) get away. Let them know of their failure and also give them opportunity to catch the criminals later on. Recurring villains are built in this way. :dragon: ****
Melichor 12-28-05, 12:22 PM	... Planting clues indicates a set area where a clue can only be found - don't rely on your players to look in places that you think are obvious. Keep your clues as fluid as possible - planting them where they can only be obtained in one spot, or by specific actions, is the sure way to end your game in frustration. Example: The Mayor has been murdered by an apparent kobold attack. His body is riddled with arrows. The arrows seem to be of kobold manufacture. They aren't. The PCs may have the skill to know this. If they don't detect this fact, have the coroner contact them a day later and inform them that there is something "wrong" about these kobold arrows - "I grew up in the kobold badlands, and these arrowheads are definitely not made from the normal stones that come from anywhere I have seen."Conversely, don't make things easier on them either - it is okay if the bad guy(s) get away. Let them know of their failure and also give them opportunity to catch the criminals later on. Recurring villains are built in this way. Which do you recommend exactly? Hand the clues to them if they don't get them? Or don't make things easier on them? If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them?
Steel Cobra 12-28-05, 12:39 PM	If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them? Beginner mistake. If your PCs are new to the whole mystery thing give them some slack, but slowly pull in that slack. Maybe even include a comment out of game that "you guys start having to thing out of the box and useing all your resources." Let it slide once MAYBE twice but make a habit of it and they will not even search they know that an NPC will come to them with an anwser.
cmrscorpio 12-28-05, 12:49 PM	The biggest tip for running a murder mystery is to know exactly what kinds of divination spells your characters can cast. Even at 5th level, clerics get Speak with Dead, which can easily render most murder mysteries pointless as the PCs simply ask the corpse "Did so and so kill you?" There are plenty of other spells that can make investigations very short. Even Detect Evil can be used to create a short list of suspects. Zone of Truth, Discern Lies, and Detect Thoughts can all ruin your well-planned investigation. Charm Person might even cause your murderer or a conspirator to spill the beans if the NPC is the kind of person who would confess to well-trusted friends. Particularly wealthy (or higher level) murderers should have access to anti-divination/anti-charm magic.
PenderGrass 12-28-05, 12:53 PM	Which do you recommend exactly? Hand the clues to them if they don't get them? Or don't make things easier on them? If the PC's have the ability to identify what are kobold arrows or not, and don't think to look, why hand it over to them? Why? Because if you watch any good crime mystery shows/movies or read any books with these themes, you will always see that some clues may escape the view of the main characters only to be pointed out by an NPC. Just because an NPC may point out the arrow clue to the PCs doesn't mean that they know who made them, why they made them, where they came from or any other hundred questions that arise from such a clue. Also, notice that I indicated that this information comes to them a day later, given that a criminal may be operating on a timeline - this late info places the pressure on the PCs (it may be too late, in fact). Clues should be listed when designing this type of adventure, as such: 1. Arrow manufacturing is not Kobold. 2. Mayor has advertisement from a local Madame's House in his pocket. 3. Mayor's boots have clay from harbor on them. 4. Mayor's house is filled with illegal drugs and clay prints made from barefeet. 5. Mayor was known to have affection for halfling women. etc. These clues may be important or not, and it is up to the PCs how they deal with them. They may be following up the clues of halfling hookers and spurned boyfriends when in actuality the real criminal planted all of these clues and the only real clue is that the advertisement from the Madame's House is planted. If the PCs follow the clues in the "wrong" way - don't disuade them by making up clues after the game has started. Let them fall on their faces if that is what happens. Let the timeline roll out as it may- DAY 21: THE MURDERER SAFELY CONDUCTS THE DRUGS ACROSS THE BORDER. Clues should never solve the crime, only point to information that allows a satisfactory outcome. :dragon: ****
mike_beavers 12-28-05, 03:05 PM	I read a book on about creating murder mysteries and the number one thing that was recommended was to work backwords from the actual murder. Also another poster mentioned that you would probably need the players to actually be low level as to prevent magical dectection
Jack Greylock 12-28-05, 03:08 PM	Remember D&D is about Characters solving problems not Players. So in the case of a mystery, spend a lot of time thinking about skills characters might use to help them solve the mystery (spot, search, gather information, diplomacy, sense motive, appraise, listen, disable device, knowledge, spellcraft) and come up with all the required DC’s ahead of time. Never penalize a player for being dumber then his character, by not allowing them a skill check to figure basic facts out. Also if at any time players seem to be getting bored looking for clues, never be afraid to have a guy kick in the door and start a fight with them, this can be a great way to spur players on, revive bored players, and provide further clues that the players might have missed.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 12-28-05, 04:45 PM	Also, think about the measures the murderer would have taken to conceal any clues. In a magical setting, any hitman worth his salt would likely have at least a workable antidetection item. Also, many divination magics aren't as useful as some players may think. Detect Evil may tell you who in the area is evil, but it does not distinguish Good and Neutral from Evil. As such, you have a short list of people you know are likely to have evil thoughts, but not all evil characters are killers (such as the racist innkeeper who charges elves double, or the merchant who will knowingly sell you flimsy wares unless you pay masterwork prices for mundane items, all the while spreading rumors about how unfit the other merchants' wares are and driving them out of business). In D&D, even Good and Neutral characters may be murderers. Think about how many times you hear about Paladins slaying anyone who shows up even vaguely in their "Evil-dar". This fits in with modern times in which you have terrorists doing what they believe to be "good" but what others plainly see to be evil. As for Speak with Dead, not everyone sees their killer or knows them. For that matter, in a magical setting, their killers may well use Disguise Self to get close to their prey, knowing full well that Speak with Dead would be one of the first divinations used in the investigation.
wrecan 12-28-05, 06:19 PM	As for Speak with Dead, not everyone sees their killer or knows them. For that matter, in a magical setting, their killers may well use Disguise Self to get close to their prey, knowing full well that Speak with Dead would be one of the first divinations used in the investigation. Yep. Nothing like having a cleric cast Speak With Dead, ask "Who killed you" and have the victim say, "You did." :devil:
oximoron 12-28-05, 06:39 PM	your murderer probably knows this about speak with dead the body must be mostly intact to be able to respond. A damaged corpse may be able to give partial answers or partially correct answers, but it must at least have a mouth in order to speak at all.
mcmurphy510 12-28-05, 09:54 PM	You've got a lot of good suggestions here allready, so I'll keep this short. You can run a murder mystery at virtually any level. I just ran one for my 10th level party and it went over quite well. You just have to be aware of what divinations your PCs will have access to and find a way to deal with them. If the mayor was killed from behind for example, or the attacker was invisible, speak with dead will not tell alot about the attacker's identity. Anyone involved probably ougut to keep a few doeses of potions of undectable lie (or something like that) on hand... which would be clues themselves. If you have the old 2e book 'Four From Cormyr' they have an EXECELLENT murder mystery in there with plenty of ideas of to undertake it. It might even be available as a download on the WotC site???
Caine_The_Unholy 12-28-05, 10:25 PM	How I would do it: Make it a one shot, sit down four about eight hours and solve you a mystery. Have each player make an eccentric character (preferably beforehand, so they can better flesh out the character) and make one of them the murderer. Start with NPCs, then dangle the prospect of a PC dying over their heads. It could be a duke's royal ball or something.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 12-29-05, 04:05 AM	And I just remembered another thing that may help that we carry at the comic book store I work at... Dungeons and Dragons Clue. Who killed the Archmage? Was it Mialee in the Dragon's lair? Or Was it Tordek, in the... yada yada yada... Yes, they do make it. No, we haven't sold (m)any of them :P
KJW 12-29-05, 02:18 PM	I have run a few murder mysteries and all of Pendergrass' advice is excellent, I only have a few minor points. A good murder is a complex murder with flexible clues. As for Speak with Dead, read the spell description. Limited number of questions and once cast you cannot use it again on the corpse for a week. it is the same with Commune, you need to know the right questions to get good answers. I have recently ran a solo campaign with a cleric and she has performed all sorts of investigations, but uses Speak with Dead only as a last resort to confirm her theory of the murder. IMC I have one prestige class that is protected by divine magic when they commit special murders and crimes. This divine magic redirects divinations towards an innocent subject and these individuals always appear as likable innocent bystanders. Conventional detective work is often the best way to root these villains out. Have fun, mysteries are hard, and it takes a little practice to nail them, but it is a great skill to have as a DM.
Caine_The_Unholy 12-29-05, 02:41 PM	And I just remembered another thing that may help that we carry at the comic book store I work at... Dungeons and Dragons Clue. Who killed the Archmage? Was it Mialee in the Dragon's lair? Or Was it Tordek, in the... yada yada yada... Yes, they do make it. No, we haven't sold (m)any of them :P Sweet jesus I want it. I need a new clue game :D
mcmurphy510 12-29-05, 09:46 PM	Here is the link to "Four From Cormyr" (refrenced above), in which is an execellent murder mystery that you can either run straight off (after converting to 3.5) or take some good ideas from... look for the section called "Murder Most Magical" http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads