Anyone Else Have Trouble with Politics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyone Else Have Trouble with Politics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GoriceXII
01-14-08, 04:25 PM I can't seem to have a political situation or an intrigue situation in my campaign. Whenever we're doing dungeon delving, wilderness treks, sneaking round the town, etc my players have a blast. They enjoy the down time roleplaying with followers and local friendly npcs. But bring in the smallest political elements and some clam up, one in particular seems to blow his top, they generally can't handle it. Does anyone else have this problem? And what do you do about it?

In a recent game the adventure path (not written by me) called for the pcs to help deal with an election that could ultimately enable them to have a decent base for the rest of the AP with allies in control of it. It got wildly out of control, and I must emphasize not in that fun way--players in a bad mood at the end of the game, irritated by each other, barely talking to one another. I was a little baffled since the situation was as straightforward as could be--in fact I was mostly hoping they would be able to just get past it and get on to the rest of the adventure, it literally was just so that they had a secure place to come back to.

Apart from just removing any possible intrigue or political elements from any of my games, are there ways dms have developed of getting players to enjoy this kind of thing more? Otherwise what I will do in future is in a similar example to the above have them arrive in town, be given some rumors and gossip and offers of services and then let them be able to move on. Any 'intrigues' will be limited to enemies trying to murder them or rob them or spy on them.
iserith
01-14-08, 04:46 PM I would just give them what they want. Play to their strengths and tastes by giving them dungeon delves and the like. It will keep them coming back to the table every week, which is pretty much the whole point. As long as everyone is having fun, I wouldn't worry about it. Dungeon delves and hack-n-slash can be just as satisfying as other modes of play.

Another way to deal with it is to entice them with politics during a dungeon delve. Leave a clue in there that leads back to something in the city. Let the clue hint at something sinister going on in the local government/church, but have it such that the clue is not damning enough on its own. They can either follow it up (leading to some kind of political intrigue) or leave it alone. Listen carefully when they talk about it and take notes. If they come up with some theory about the clue, fudge and make it so they're right! Players often come up with the best ideas anyway. Positive reinforcement is the theme here. But don't base your whole campaign around it since you won't know if they're going to bite.
ccerose
01-14-08, 04:59 PM Start small. They enjoy interacting with NPCs. They could befriend one who is somehow tied to a political figure. Perhaps it's a young maiden tricked into putting a city leader in a compromising position. A political figure could be assassinated and an NPC friend or the PCs themselves are the prime suspects.

Those could open the door to government corruption.

You could have an official contract the PCs to conduct various quests only to betray them and somehow drag them into the politics of the campaign. Maybe the unwittingly assist this official to overthrow the king to whom they are loyal servants.
GoriceXII
01-14-08, 05:01 PM Hm...I'll give your idea some thought. I'm leaning more towards just taking it out still, but what you seem to be suggesting is less a direct involvement with intrigues and say bringing back proof of something or other that sways some kind of intrigue or political development. Am I understanding you properly? Like as in they find a missing letter or a legacy magical item or something or a forgotten prisoner, and when they return the people go "ahhhhh...so X is the villain!"
iserith
01-14-08, 05:10 PM Hm...I'll give your idea some thought. I'm leaning more towards just taking it out still, but what you seem to be suggesting is less a direct involvement with intrigues and say bringing back proof of something or other that sways some kind of intrigue or political development. Am I understanding you properly? Like as in they find a missing letter or a legacy magical item or something or a forgotten prisoner, and when they return the people go "ahhhhh...so X is the villain!"

Yes. If they like to interact with NPCs, a prisoner is a good idea. The prisoner may only tell half-truths (Bluff vs. Sense Motive) or may be genuine. Or even overhearing some evil NPCs talking about some vague plot before they get brained by the PCs. Or even an intelligent longsword with information to share with the right owner. Be creative.

The most obvious (some would say cliched) way is the old "newspaper clippings" or - in the D&D world - a letter, old scroll, or map. Think of how many movies you've seen where the protagonist gets valuable information by finding a scrapbook full of old newspaper clippings relevant to the mystery they are investigating. Stephen King is famous for this.

The trick is disseminating the clue in a manner that doesn't insult one's intelligence, but is just interesting enough for even hack-n-slashers to want to investigate further. And if they don't - screw it... kick in another door and fight!
Loftower
01-14-08, 07:39 PM I don’t know what level of depth you have in your other intrigues, but see if you can start small. The issue in question can be big, just the intrigue not too tangled. An example from one of my campaigns: Local Duke has invited and occasionally bribed a goblin raiding party to attack one of his own, minor towns. He is using this as an excuse to raise troops. His real goal is to overthrow the king. He has a messenger / spy running between his castle and the goblin base. The PCs join the adventure to protect the town. If they are completely oblivious to the politics they can defeat the goblins in combat. When the goblins are gone, the Duke will not disband his army, and a local lord who is more loyal to the king than the Duke will hire the PCs to send a message to the king alleging the Duke’s disloyalty. Again, the PCs can avoid the politics completely by just delivering the message and collecting their reward (the Duke will try to intercept the message, of course). With the king alerted, the Duke makes a lame excuse about a family heirloom, which was stolen by a thief from another part of the kingdom, and claim that his family honor demands justice. (In actual fact, his cousin, the ascetic monk from whom it was stolen, doesn’t really care to get it back.) Naturally, the PCs get first option on the contract to recover the item and deliver the thief to justice.

As you may have noticed, the PCs don’t actually have to get involved in any of the politics in this storyline. If they do “go political” and have even a little success, the adventures should be easier. If not, they do the honest bludgeon work and come to more-or-less the same conclusions. Just having a political backdrop can help them think about intrigue, even if they are not actively participating.
Etarnon
01-14-08, 11:58 PM Perhaps they have a real world distrust of politicians, and this just brings it out.

I'd stick with the dungeon bash, and introduce it slowly, and not use words like election.

Just say X needs help. He gets Item Y.
Boom they read or hear about that he is now mayor or whatever.

That tribe / person / thing needs killed. (It leads to a power vacuum, where the hiring patron steps in, and rewards the PC handsomely.)

Not, Help me to find X so that I can be mayor.

Like that. I love political intrigues, and my players do, also. We tend to play Birthright a lot, but right now, we're deep into an epionage game set in a fictionalized modern day south america. So it's all kinds of politics, assassinations, political espionage, and skulduggery.

Finally, next session, pint blank ask them, "Hey guys, seems like everyone got pretty jacked off last time with the political scenario. I was surprised. What was the cause of all the discontent?"

There's your answer, or at least some clues.

Good luck.
GoriceXII
01-15-08, 12:58 AM Thanks guys, these are all helpful suggestions. I'm going to definitely take up ideas like the political backdrop as opposed to involvement right in their face--give them the option as you say. We're all enjoying the more dungeon-bashing/journeying/occasional roleplay with npcs so I will try to to slip it in only if for instance the adventure clearly calls for it.

Etarnon: you hit the nail on the head I think with words like 'election' perhaps making them worry. I'll also just ask them about it--in fact I did send out a few emails to inquire.
Salla
01-15-08, 01:11 AM I'll also just ask them about it--in fact I did send out a few emails to inquire.

And that's the best thing to do in nearly any situation.
Orchomenos
01-15-08, 11:35 AM Check out the Netbook of Plots (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/index.html). It might give you some ideas. Sort the plots by Setting, and check the ones in Castle, City or Urban setting.
Some involve the PCs into election, which you want to avoid as hell. ;)

The Queen's Beau (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/pl30.html) is short and straightforward: the Queen's Beau is missing. Was he killed by goblins or random bandits? If yes, was it just a random act of violence, or were they sponsored by some political or nobility figure?

The Isabel Piece (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/pl86.html) mix intrigue and action. It involves a small town corrupted officials, and can lead to larger scale politic. The setting is Western, and it's hard to adapt it. It needs a newly set area, possibly contested between two foreign strong nations, with elves serving as displaced natives.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoriceXII 01-14-08, 04:25 PM	I can't seem to have a political situation or an intrigue situation in my campaign. Whenever we're doing dungeon delving, wilderness treks, sneaking round the town, etc my players have a blast. They enjoy the down time roleplaying with followers and local friendly npcs. But bring in the smallest political elements and some clam up, one in particular seems to blow his top, they generally can't handle it. Does anyone else have this problem? And what do you do about it? In a recent game the adventure path (not written by me) called for the pcs to help deal with an election that could ultimately enable them to have a decent base for the rest of the AP with allies in control of it. It got wildly out of control, and I must emphasize not in that fun way--players in a bad mood at the end of the game, irritated by each other, barely talking to one another. I was a little baffled since the situation was as straightforward as could be--in fact I was mostly hoping they would be able to just get past it and get on to the rest of the adventure, it literally was just so that they had a secure place to come back to. Apart from just removing any possible intrigue or political elements from any of my games, are there ways dms have developed of getting players to enjoy this kind of thing more? Otherwise what I will do in future is in a similar example to the above have them arrive in town, be given some rumors and gossip and offers of services and then let them be able to move on. Any 'intrigues' will be limited to enemies trying to murder them or rob them or spy on them.
iserith 01-14-08, 04:46 PM	I would just give them what they want. Play to their strengths and tastes by giving them dungeon delves and the like. It will keep them coming back to the table every week, which is pretty much the whole point. As long as everyone is having fun, I wouldn't worry about it. Dungeon delves and hack-n-slash can be just as satisfying as other modes of play. Another way to deal with it is to entice them with politics during a dungeon delve. Leave a clue in there that leads back to something in the city. Let the clue hint at something sinister going on in the local government/church, but have it such that the clue is not damning enough on its own. They can either follow it up (leading to some kind of political intrigue) or leave it alone. Listen carefully when they talk about it and take notes. If they come up with some theory about the clue, fudge and make it so they're right! Players often come up with the best ideas anyway. Positive reinforcement is the theme here. But don't base your whole campaign around it since you won't know if they're going to bite.
ccerose 01-14-08, 04:59 PM	Start small. They enjoy interacting with NPCs. They could befriend one who is somehow tied to a political figure. Perhaps it's a young maiden tricked into putting a city leader in a compromising position. A political figure could be assassinated and an NPC friend or the PCs themselves are the prime suspects. Those could open the door to government corruption. You could have an official contract the PCs to conduct various quests only to betray them and somehow drag them into the politics of the campaign. Maybe the unwittingly assist this official to overthrow the king to whom they are loyal servants.
GoriceXII 01-14-08, 05:01 PM	Hm...I'll give your idea some thought. I'm leaning more towards just taking it out still, but what you seem to be suggesting is less a direct involvement with intrigues and say bringing back proof of something or other that sways some kind of intrigue or political development. Am I understanding you properly? Like as in they find a missing letter or a legacy magical item or something or a forgotten prisoner, and when they return the people go "ahhhhh...so X is the villain!"
iserith 01-14-08, 05:10 PM	Hm...I'll give your idea some thought. I'm leaning more towards just taking it out still, but what you seem to be suggesting is less a direct involvement with intrigues and say bringing back proof of something or other that sways some kind of intrigue or political development. Am I understanding you properly? Like as in they find a missing letter or a legacy magical item or something or a forgotten prisoner, and when they return the people go "ahhhhh...so X is the villain!" Yes. If they like to interact with NPCs, a prisoner is a good idea. The prisoner may only tell half-truths (Bluff vs. Sense Motive) or may be genuine. Or even overhearing some evil NPCs talking about some vague plot before they get brained by the PCs. Or even an intelligent longsword with information to share with the right owner. Be creative. The most obvious (some would say cliched) way is the old "newspaper clippings" or - in the D&D world - a letter, old scroll, or map. Think of how many movies you've seen where the protagonist gets valuable information by finding a scrapbook full of old newspaper clippings relevant to the mystery they are investigating. Stephen King is famous for this. The trick is disseminating the clue in a manner that doesn't insult one's intelligence, but is just interesting enough for even hack-n-slashers to want to investigate further. And if they don't - screw it... kick in another door and fight!
Loftower 01-14-08, 07:39 PM	I don’t know what level of depth you have in your other intrigues, but see if you can start small. The issue in question can be big, just the intrigue not too tangled. An example from one of my campaigns: Local Duke has invited and occasionally bribed a goblin raiding party to attack one of his own, minor towns. He is using this as an excuse to raise troops. His real goal is to overthrow the king. He has a messenger / spy running between his castle and the goblin base. The PCs join the adventure to protect the town. If they are completely oblivious to the politics they can defeat the goblins in combat. When the goblins are gone, the Duke will not disband his army, and a local lord who is more loyal to the king than the Duke will hire the PCs to send a message to the king alleging the Duke’s disloyalty. Again, the PCs can avoid the politics completely by just delivering the message and collecting their reward (the Duke will try to intercept the message, of course). With the king alerted, the Duke makes a lame excuse about a family heirloom, which was stolen by a thief from another part of the kingdom, and claim that his family honor demands justice. (In actual fact, his cousin, the ascetic monk from whom it was stolen, doesn’t really care to get it back.) Naturally, the PCs get first option on the contract to recover the item and deliver the thief to justice. As you may have noticed, the PCs don’t actually have to get involved in any of the politics in this storyline. If they do “go political” and have even a little success, the adventures should be easier. If not, they do the honest bludgeon work and come to more-or-less the same conclusions. Just having a political backdrop can help them think about intrigue, even if they are not actively participating.
Etarnon 01-14-08, 11:58 PM	Perhaps they have a real world distrust of politicians, and this just brings it out. I'd stick with the dungeon bash, and introduce it slowly, and not use words like election. Just say X needs help. He gets Item Y. Boom they read or hear about that he is now mayor or whatever. That tribe / person / thing needs killed. (It leads to a power vacuum, where the hiring patron steps in, and rewards the PC handsomely.) Not, Help me to find X so that I can be mayor. Like that. I love political intrigues, and my players do, also. We tend to play Birthright a lot, but right now, we're deep into an epionage game set in a fictionalized modern day south america. So it's all kinds of politics, assassinations, political espionage, and skulduggery. Finally, next session, pint blank ask them, "Hey guys, seems like everyone got pretty jacked off last time with the political scenario. I was surprised. What was the cause of all the discontent?" There's your answer, or at least some clues. Good luck.
GoriceXII 01-15-08, 12:58 AM	Thanks guys, these are all helpful suggestions. I'm going to definitely take up ideas like the political backdrop as opposed to involvement right in their face--give them the option as you say. We're all enjoying the more dungeon-bashing/journeying/occasional roleplay with npcs so I will try to to slip it in only if for instance the adventure clearly calls for it. Etarnon: you hit the nail on the head I think with words like 'election' perhaps making them worry. I'll also just ask them about it--in fact I did send out a few emails to inquire.
Salla 01-15-08, 01:11 AM	I'll also just ask them about it--in fact I did send out a few emails to inquire. And that's the best thing to do in nearly any situation.
Orchomenos 01-15-08, 11:35 AM	Check out the Netbook of Plots (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/index.html). It might give you some ideas. Sort the plots by Setting, and check the ones in Castle, City or Urban setting. Some involve the PCs into election, which you want to avoid as hell. ;) The Queen's Beau (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/pl30.html) is short and straightforward: the Queen's Beau is missing. Was he killed by goblins or random bandits? If yes, was it just a random act of violence, or were they sponsored by some political or nobility figure? The Isabel Piece (http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/WWWPlots/pl86.html) mix intrigue and action. It involves a small town corrupted officials, and can lead to larger scale politic. The setting is Western, and it's hard to adapt it. It needs a newly set area, possibly contested between two foreign strong nations, with elves serving as displaced natives.