AoO q and another one [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO q and another one [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sargon
07-06-05, 03:06 PM First of..
One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal. I keep telling him It might be legal, but its still cheap.
And he has spring attack.. So i'm gonna start throwing in some more creatures with ranged attack.. instead of 6 goblin warriors.. 4 warriors and 2 with crossbows.

Secondly where does it list traits. in the MM for example.. Outsider traits.. Undead Traits and Elemental Traits, I thought it was at the begining of the entrey but i can't find them anywhere.

Many Thnx
clarkvalentine
07-06-05, 03:07 PM First of..
One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal.

He's wrong. You can't take a 5 foot step and a move action in the same round.

Secondly where does it list traits. in the MM for example.. Outsider traits.. Undead Traits and Elemental Traits,

In the glossary. Not the best place for them, but there they are.
Merestil Haye
07-06-05, 03:09 PM Second question. It's in the Glossary. 3.5 Monster Manual p 305. There's an updated version in MM3, and it was published online about the time MM3 came out.

First question. That is not legal. Not at all. Just a minute while I hunt the SRD to prove it.

HereTake 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. (Bolding mine)

He's either ignorant of the rule, or ignoring it. Hope it's the former.

On the subject of Spring Attack, remember to enforce the two limitations of the feat.it does not prevent all AoO's, just those from the combatant being attacked. And it absoutely requires the attacker to move both before and after the attack. If the attack is a charge, he may not claim Spring Attack benefits. If he does not tell you he is moving after the attack, then rewind to take the AoO as soon as that becomes clear. He'll only try that once.

Second edit : The character can take the full-round action to Withdraw, which does not provoke an AoO if the the opponent(s) only threaten the square he is leaving, and not any other square he moves through.
Duvanok
07-06-05, 03:37 PM . . . however, with the spring attack feat you can leave the threat range of the target you are attacking without provoking an AoO, as long as you are actually attacking him and you have to move at least five feet first. Perhaps this is where he is getting his rules mixed up.

Edit: Damn it! Not fast enough.
Jaxom
07-06-05, 03:46 PM Ranged attackers are good, using attackers with reach are good too. Not only reach as natural weapons, but a few fighters with polearms are good too though they can't attack a square right next to them once an opponent closes on them, but they can move 5 feet back and make attacks.
kaldrin
07-06-05, 03:52 PM He's either ignorant of the rule, or ignoring it. Hope it's the former.

It could also be a case of tunnel reading. We've had it many times for how certain spells work. You read a certain passage that confirms what you think and a sentence later says, "but not when you do that," or something.
KoboldSlayer
07-06-05, 03:52 PM First of..
One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal. I keep telling him It might be legal, but its still cheap.
And he has spring attack.. So i'm gonna start throwing in some more creatures with ranged attack.. instead of 6 goblin warriors.. 4 warriors and 2 with crossbows.

He is wrong about using a 5-foot step and then a move.

He is right in principle.

That is, if he does NOTHING ELSE but retreat out of range that round, he could use the "withdraw" action which is a full-round action that allows you to move up to double your movement. When you use the withdraw action, the first space you start in does not count for determining attacks of opportunity. (So anyone threatening you when you started would not get the AoO unless you moved through another step they threaten.)
This only applies to creatures you can see. (An invisible threat can't be "withdrawn" from safely even if you know it is there.)
And it has only limited usefulness, since you can't use it if you intend to do anything else (drink a potion, cast a spell, attack, anything) during the rest of your turn.

So, yes, he can retreat and not have that 5-foot space count. But no, not if he's already...or fixing to...do anything else.
Dave Stebbins
07-06-05, 07:16 PM Finally, remember that spring attack requires a move action (as people have stated above), and that leaves only a standard action for attacking. That means no multiple attacks of any kind while using spring attack. This makes it less wonderful as PCs advance in levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sargon 07-06-05, 03:06 PM	First of.. One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal. I keep telling him It might be legal, but its still cheap. And he has spring attack.. So i'm gonna start throwing in some more creatures with ranged attack.. instead of 6 goblin warriors.. 4 warriors and 2 with crossbows. Secondly where does it list traits. in the MM for example.. Outsider traits.. Undead Traits and Elemental Traits, I thought it was at the begining of the entrey but i can't find them anywhere. Many Thnx
clarkvalentine 07-06-05, 03:07 PM	First of.. One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal. He's wrong. You can't take a 5 foot step and a move action in the same round. Secondly where does it list traits. in the MM for example.. Outsider traits.. Undead Traits and Elemental Traits, In the glossary. Not the best place for them, but there they are.
Merestil Haye 07-06-05, 03:09 PM	Second question. It's in the Glossary. 3.5 Monster Manual p 305. There's an updated version in MM3, and it was published online about the time MM3 came out. First question. That is not legal. Not at all. Just a minute while I hunt the SRD to prove it. HereTake 5-Foot Step You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance. You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round. You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature. You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. (Bolding mine) He's either ignorant of the rule, or ignoring it. Hope it's the former. On the subject of Spring Attack, remember to enforce the two limitations of the feat.it does not prevent all AoO's, just those from the combatant being attacked. And it absoutely requires the attacker to move both before and after the attack. If the attack is a charge, he may not claim Spring Attack benefits. If he does not tell you he is moving after the attack, then rewind to take the AoO as soon as that becomes clear. He'll only try that once. Second edit : The character can take the full-round action to Withdraw, which does not provoke an AoO if the the opponent(s) only threaten the square he is leaving, and not any other square he moves through.
Duvanok 07-06-05, 03:37 PM	. . . however, with the spring attack feat you can leave the threat range of the target you are attacking without provoking an AoO, as long as you are actually attacking him and you have to move at least five feet first. Perhaps this is where he is getting his rules mixed up. Edit: Damn it! Not fast enough.
Jaxom 07-06-05, 03:46 PM	Ranged attackers are good, using attackers with reach are good too. Not only reach as natural weapons, but a few fighters with polearms are good too though they can't attack a square right next to them once an opponent closes on them, but they can move 5 feet back and make attacks.
kaldrin 07-06-05, 03:52 PM	He's either ignorant of the rule, or ignoring it. Hope it's the former. It could also be a case of tunnel reading. We've had it many times for how certain spells work. You read a certain passage that confirms what you think and a sentence later says, "but not when you do that," or something.
KoboldSlayer 07-06-05, 03:52 PM	First of.. One thing on of my players has been doing that has been aggervating the **** out of me is taking a 5ft step out threat range and then making a move action to run away. He swears its legal. I keep telling him It might be legal, but its still cheap. And he has spring attack.. So i'm gonna start throwing in some more creatures with ranged attack.. instead of 6 goblin warriors.. 4 warriors and 2 with crossbows. He is wrong about using a 5-foot step and then a move. He is right in principle. That is, if he does NOTHING ELSE but retreat out of range that round, he could use the "withdraw" action which is a full-round action that allows you to move up to double your movement. When you use the withdraw action, the first space you start in does not count for determining attacks of opportunity. (So anyone threatening you when you started would not get the AoO unless you moved through another step they threaten.) This only applies to creatures you can see. (An invisible threat can't be "withdrawn" from safely even if you know it is there.) And it has only limited usefulness, since you can't use it if you intend to do anything else (drink a potion, cast a spell, attack, anything) during the rest of your turn. So, yes, he can retreat and not have that 5-foot space count. But no, not if he's already...or fixing to...do anything else.
Dave Stebbins 07-06-05, 07:16 PM	Finally, remember that spring attack requires a move action (as people have stated above), and that leaves only a standard action for attacking. That means no multiple attacks of any kind while using spring attack. This makes it less wonderful as PCs advance in levels.