AoO Question. <<move, AoO, then cast>> [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO Question. <<move, AoO, then cast>> [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dameclese
04-27-08, 11:38 PM ok this ones based on movement and a mage casting.

Mage starts adjacent to the fighter.
Mage moves normally away from fighter
Fighter takes AoO, and hits Mage.
Mage take 10 damage
Mage lives. finishes move to a non threatened square.
Mage casts a spell.

Now here is the question.

Does the mage need to make a concentration check of 10+damage+spell level as he provoked an AoO against him during his move action.

or

Is the move action concidered a SEPERATE action from the casting action. and therefore he doent need to make a concetration check to cast the spell.

reading the skill concentration, the note labeld 2. mentions some info about this, but did not clairify it for quite to the satifaction of our party.

Thanks in advnace
mycroftb
04-28-08, 12:06 AM Separate actions. Casting a spell in a threatened square provokes an AoO. Since the caster moved before casting (and assuming the square he moved to isn't still threatened), there's no AoO during his casting, so no concentration check.

A popular tactic is for casters to make a 5' adjustment, then cast. Under normal circumstances, the 5' adjustment doesn't provoke an AoO for moving. Assuming there's a non-threatened space adjacent to get to, the caster can then cast without provoking an AoO for casting.
Neutronium_Dragon
04-28-08, 02:43 AM As above, damage only provokes a Concentration check if it actually occurs during the casting action, not at any other time during the round.

The exception is ongoing damage, such as occurs from the secondary effect of a Melf's Acid Arrow. This does provoke a Concentration check regardless of the fact that the damage may "tick" at a different moment.
Senevri
04-28-08, 08:33 AM Also, Fighters should Trip.
Timlagor
04-28-08, 10:32 PM Sometimes you move to provoke and then cast your spell right next to the fighter :) [hoping he doesn't havr CRef]
Zuggster
04-29-08, 07:28 AM And there's always the chance the person being moved away from has Pursue, which would leave you in the same situation as you started from.
hollow_ghost
04-29-08, 07:55 AM Why didn't the mage just Cast Defensively?
ashmanonar
04-29-08, 01:11 PM Sometimes you move to provoke and then cast your spell right next to the fighter :) [hoping he doesn't havr CRef]

Yea, definitely not a good thing to do with a fighter (or martial adept, Crusader most likely) that has a Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes.

And, you know, Mage Slayer.
Escef
04-29-08, 02:20 PM Why didn't the mage just Cast Defensively?

At certain lower levels the caster is not guaranteed to make the check. Also, he may be moving to get into an optimal position for a spell who's AoE is a cone.
Cranewings
04-29-08, 02:26 PM The 3.x initiative rules are very helpful to casters.

In 2.0 spells had weapon speeds. For example, Magic Missile has a weapon speed of 4. If the caster gets a 2 for initiative, he STARTS his spell on 2. The spell doesn't go off until 6.

If the caster is STRUCK during that time, the spell fizzles. There wasn't a concentration skill as I remember, but if there was, there was a lot of opprotunity to hit him.
Escef
04-29-08, 02:31 PM The 3.x initiative rules are very helpful to casters.

In 2.0 spells had weapon speeds. For example, Magic Missile has a weapon speed of 4. If the caster gets a 2 for initiative, he STARTS his spell on 2. The spell doesn't go off until 6.

If the caster is STRUCK during that time, the spell fizzles. There wasn't a concentration skill as I remember, but if there was, there was a lot of opprotunity to hit him.

IIRC, it was simply if he was struck before the spell went off in the round. So if the wizard had a 9 on initiative (roll of 7, +2 for the average 2nd level spell), being hit on initiative count 4 by a thrown dagger would still ruin the spell. (The other method sounds like a houserule. Not a bad houserule, though.)

There was no concentration check to maintain a spell when struck in 1e or 2e. There might have been an obscure kit or magic item that granted a save or something, but if there is it is one I have no memory of.
Cranewings
04-29-08, 02:36 PM Escef, maybe that was a house rule...

I think you are right. Which means wizards were even more vulnerable in the old game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dameclese 04-27-08, 11:38 PM	ok this ones based on movement and a mage casting. Mage starts adjacent to the fighter. Mage moves normally away from fighter Fighter takes AoO, and hits Mage. Mage take 10 damage Mage lives. finishes move to a non threatened square. Mage casts a spell. Now here is the question. Does the mage need to make a concentration check of 10+damage+spell level as he provoked an AoO against him during his move action. or Is the move action concidered a SEPERATE action from the casting action. and therefore he doent need to make a concetration check to cast the spell. reading the skill concentration, the note labeld 2. mentions some info about this, but did not clairify it for quite to the satifaction of our party. Thanks in advnace
mycroftb 04-28-08, 12:06 AM	Separate actions. Casting a spell in a threatened square provokes an AoO. Since the caster moved before casting (and assuming the square he moved to isn't still threatened), there's no AoO during his casting, so no concentration check. A popular tactic is for casters to make a 5' adjustment, then cast. Under normal circumstances, the 5' adjustment doesn't provoke an AoO for moving. Assuming there's a non-threatened space adjacent to get to, the caster can then cast without provoking an AoO for casting.
Neutronium_Dragon 04-28-08, 02:43 AM	As above, damage only provokes a Concentration check if it actually occurs during the casting action, not at any other time during the round. The exception is ongoing damage, such as occurs from the secondary effect of a Melf's Acid Arrow. This does provoke a Concentration check regardless of the fact that the damage may "tick" at a different moment.
Senevri 04-28-08, 08:33 AM	Also, Fighters should Trip.
Timlagor 04-28-08, 10:32 PM	Sometimes you move to provoke and then cast your spell right next to the fighter :) [hoping he doesn't havr CRef]
Zuggster 04-29-08, 07:28 AM	And there's always the chance the person being moved away from has Pursue, which would leave you in the same situation as you started from.
hollow_ghost 04-29-08, 07:55 AM	Why didn't the mage just Cast Defensively?
ashmanonar 04-29-08, 01:11 PM	Sometimes you move to provoke and then cast your spell right next to the fighter :) [hoping he doesn't havr CRef] Yea, definitely not a good thing to do with a fighter (or martial adept, Crusader most likely) that has a Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes. And, you know, Mage Slayer.
Escef 04-29-08, 02:20 PM	Why didn't the mage just Cast Defensively? At certain lower levels the caster is not guaranteed to make the check. Also, he may be moving to get into an optimal position for a spell who's AoE is a cone.
Cranewings 04-29-08, 02:26 PM	The 3.x initiative rules are very helpful to casters. In 2.0 spells had weapon speeds. For example, Magic Missile has a weapon speed of 4. If the caster gets a 2 for initiative, he STARTS his spell on 2. The spell doesn't go off until 6. If the caster is STRUCK during that time, the spell fizzles. There wasn't a concentration skill as I remember, but if there was, there was a lot of opprotunity to hit him.
Escef 04-29-08, 02:31 PM	The 3.x initiative rules are very helpful to casters. In 2.0 spells had weapon speeds. For example, Magic Missile has a weapon speed of 4. If the caster gets a 2 for initiative, he STARTS his spell on 2. The spell doesn't go off until 6. If the caster is STRUCK during that time, the spell fizzles. There wasn't a concentration skill as I remember, but if there was, there was a lot of opprotunity to hit him. IIRC, it was simply if he was struck before the spell went off in the round. So if the wizard had a 9 on initiative (roll of 7, +2 for the average 2nd level spell), being hit on initiative count 4 by a thrown dagger would still ruin the spell. (The other method sounds like a houserule. Not a bad houserule, though.) There was no concentration check to maintain a spell when struck in 1e or 2e. There might have been an obscure kit or magic item that granted a save or something, but if there is it is one I have no memory of.
Cranewings 04-29-08, 02:36 PM	Escef, maybe that was a house rule... I think you are right. Which means wizards were even more vulnerable in the old game.