Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valdor 08-13-06, 12:11 AM	I am posting to ask about an apparent rule discrepancy. All of the following is taken from the SRD. Under the description of jump, it says: “Jumping Down: If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell.” Under the description of tumble, it says: “DC 15 … Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is when determining damage.” But when you go under falling damage, which is printed in the DMG and part of Wilderness, Weather, and Environment in the SRD, it says: “If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump or Tumble check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.” So for example, lets say I do what it suggests, and jump down from 30ft, succeeding at both a DC15 jump check and a DC15 tumble check. Do I treat the fall as 20ft shorter, treating it as a 10ft fall, and have it deal 1d6 lethal damage, or do I do what it says in the DMG, and apply 1d6 lethal damage AND 2d6 nonlethal damage?
spectralphoenix 08-13-06, 12:27 AM	I believe you would take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Read the section again very carefully (page 303.) When you succeed at a jump or tumble check, the next 10 feet is converted to nonlethal. It even gives an example. Note that if you jumped down but failed your checks, you would take 1d6 nonlethal +2d6. If you did not jump (merely fell) you could attempt a tumble check to reduce it by 10 feet but that's it. If you slipped off a cliff and failed the check, you would take 3d6 lethal damage. If you made your check, you'd take 2d6. You would not get a jump check.
Nukacola 08-13-06, 12:39 AM	Very interesting. Yes, the skill descriptions of jump and tumble say that you can use either at DC 15 to cut 10 feet off of a fall. However, can you do BOTH? Let's see: If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump or Tumble check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge. Bolded portions suggest that you can only do the jump check OR the tumble check, you can't do both. If you WERE able to do both, and you jumped from 30 feet, the first 10 feet would be negated by jump, the second 10 feet negated by tumble (or vice versa, whatever), and the third 10 feet would be converted to non lethal because you deliberately jumped down instead of falling.
spectralphoenix 08-13-06, 12:47 AM	Guess you're correct on that one. I seem to recall that you could make both checks in 3.0, but I suppose that's no longer the case.
Rhuxley 08-13-06, 01:38 AM	i also remember this rule, it makes sense that the jump check reduced the 1st 10 feet, and a tumble reduced the last 10ft. or so i though... must have changed it, oh well.
Nukacola 08-13-06, 01:49 AM	I'm not sure what to make of it myself. It depends on how you interpret that text, I suppose. I personally have no problem with the idea of being able to use both skills to reduce falling damage
Orbb_was_railed_by_God 08-13-06, 05:30 AM	"Guys, wait up! I landed on my keys!"