Applications of the spell "light" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Applications of the spell "light" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Oberon_of_Avalon
10-02-03, 10:54 PM I never thought in all my time as a DM that I would have to bring up a question like this. But given my situation I'm pretty sure some of you would under stand why I had to sit for a moment and go :uh-huh:

Just got done playing a short solo session with a character who's joining my group soon. He's a half-orc sorcerer (kind of odd, number one) who likes to get up close and personal with the melee and uses spells that don't offer a saving throw (though his Cha of 16 isn't bad at all...). So we're playing, and he meets up with some unfriendly kobolds. He wins initiative and is already in melee range.

PC: I poke the kobold in the eyeballs and cast light.

...what exactly would that do to someone's eyes? Would your eyes just shine brightly as the spell, or would your retinas fry and your eyeballs pop as the goo inside overheats?
Lewin
10-02-03, 11:02 PM Treat it as a "flare" spell. Both are level 0, so you don't run a risk of it being overpowered.
Fixxxer
10-02-03, 11:18 PM First off, there are no called shots, so it probably wouldn't work out anyhow.

Secondly, it's been specifically stated that the spell light cannot be cast on a creature or the attended items of an unwilling creature. Because of this, you can't actually cast light on someone's eyes and the spell would fizzle.

As a side note, I'm aware that the spell is used in this way in the first of those short D&D novels.
Albert Dante
10-02-03, 11:22 PM That's basically a 2nd edition use of the spell (back then there were no cantrips and light was 1st-lvl), which IMO shouldn't work in 3.0/3.5.

Light now can only be cast on objects. A part of a creature is a not an object, it's a part of a creature.

Besides, how do you hit an eyeball anyways? It should be frigging hard enough for 20th lvl fighters to fail once in awhile. Think that if a guy with a light spell on his hand can do it, so can a dude with a dagger

There is nothing in the light spell description that says it generates any heat. However, an half-orc poking a kobold's eye is likely to hurt it, especially if the half-orc doesn't care about said kobold's health much.
Oberon_of_Avalon
10-02-03, 11:25 PM I don't see anything in the 3.0 PHB (which is what I was using, because I'm lazy and didn't want to get up and check the SRD) about light automatically failing if used on an unwillingthing. I do see, though, the entry that says "Object touched." That shouldn't disqualified it right off, but I guess I glanced over it.

Still, though, it's sort of funny having a kobold fall over and clutch its eyes for (um...10 minutes per caster level at level 3...) 30 minutes or so.
Zazu
10-03-03, 12:54 AM Also, the "Light" spell doesnt produce any heat, so his retna wouldent overheat. Also, Also, the light wouldent be bright enough to perminantlly damage the eye.
Fixxxer
10-03-03, 12:35 PM Originally posted by Oberon_of_Avalon
I do see, though, the entry that says "Object touched." That shouldn't disqualified it right off, but I guess I glanced over it.

Actually, if I remember correctly, "object" can not be used to describe a living being. The precident for this comes from the fact that a corpse is considered to be an object while an animated zombie is not.

The "can't cast light on a person" thing is from the D&D FAQ (which I can send to you, if you would like).

Still, though, it's sort of funny having a kobold fall over and clutch its eyes for (um...10 minutes per caster level at level 3...) 30 minutes or so.

I imagine that it is. My old DM let me try this trick before we discovered that it couldn't be done. The roper we blinded was not very happy about it.
xect
10-03-03, 01:08 PM Ignoring the problem with light not affecting creatures, you now stand in this situation:

The kobold's eyes are now affected by light. Light itself is not damaging, and since the eyes themselves are glowing, one must assume that the eyes themselves are not staring "into" the powerfull light. Thus, you have a kobold whose eyes are glowing quite a lot. His eyes wouldnt hurt, however, if it wasnt for the fact that in order for the light spell to get there, he was poked in the eye by a half-orc.
Umlaut
10-03-03, 01:31 PM A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two.
Nightshade22
10-03-03, 04:25 PM Originally posted by Umlaut
A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two.

no,no

kobold eye Ac:

base + 10
dex + 1
size-fine + 8
= 19

(oh, and a AoO)
Grizelda
10-03-03, 04:28 PM Originally posted by Umlaut
A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two.

two crit rolls for a half orc to poke a kobold in the eyes when standing on his toes? what the heck are you guys smoking? whats the kobold got an invisible forcefield helmet? admittedly one of D&Ds major failing since the dawn of time is the inability to create a decent set of rules for striking a certain area of a creatures body, especially since living creatures dont have any internal organs to damage they are just hit point sacks of blood, but even still maybe a -4 on a touch attack that provokes an attack of opportunity, unless the kobold was wearing a helmet which could impose an additional -2 to -8 penalty depending on the type. just my http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/my2cp.txt anyway.

<btw: how are you guys getting smileys in your sigs? mine arent working for some reason.>

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oberon_of_Avalon 10-02-03, 10:54 PM	I never thought in all my time as a DM that I would have to bring up a question like this. But given my situation I'm pretty sure some of you would under stand why I had to sit for a moment and go :uh-huh: Just got done playing a short solo session with a character who's joining my group soon. He's a half-orc sorcerer (kind of odd, number one) who likes to get up close and personal with the melee and uses spells that don't offer a saving throw (though his Cha of 16 isn't bad at all...). So we're playing, and he meets up with some unfriendly kobolds. He wins initiative and is already in melee range. PC: I poke the kobold in the eyeballs and cast light. ...what exactly would that do to someone's eyes? Would your eyes just shine brightly as the spell, or would your retinas fry and your eyeballs pop as the goo inside overheats?
Lewin 10-02-03, 11:02 PM	Treat it as a "flare" spell. Both are level 0, so you don't run a risk of it being overpowered.
Fixxxer 10-02-03, 11:18 PM	First off, there are no called shots, so it probably wouldn't work out anyhow. Secondly, it's been specifically stated that the spell light cannot be cast on a creature or the attended items of an unwilling creature. Because of this, you can't actually cast light on someone's eyes and the spell would fizzle. As a side note, I'm aware that the spell is used in this way in the first of those short D&D novels.
Albert Dante 10-02-03, 11:22 PM	That's basically a 2nd edition use of the spell (back then there were no cantrips and light was 1st-lvl), which IMO shouldn't work in 3.0/3.5. Light now can only be cast on objects. A part of a creature is a not an object, it's a part of a creature. Besides, how do you hit an eyeball anyways? It should be frigging hard enough for 20th lvl fighters to fail once in awhile. Think that if a guy with a light spell on his hand can do it, so can a dude with a dagger There is nothing in the light spell description that says it generates any heat. However, an half-orc poking a kobold's eye is likely to hurt it, especially if the half-orc doesn't care about said kobold's health much.
Oberon_of_Avalon 10-02-03, 11:25 PM	I don't see anything in the 3.0 PHB (which is what I was using, because I'm lazy and didn't want to get up and check the SRD) about light automatically failing if used on an unwillingthing. I do see, though, the entry that says "Object touched." That shouldn't disqualified it right off, but I guess I glanced over it. Still, though, it's sort of funny having a kobold fall over and clutch its eyes for (um...10 minutes per caster level at level 3...) 30 minutes or so.
Zazu 10-03-03, 12:54 AM	Also, the "Light" spell doesnt produce any heat, so his retna wouldent overheat. Also, Also, the light wouldent be bright enough to perminantlly damage the eye.
Fixxxer 10-03-03, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by Oberon_of_Avalon I do see, though, the entry that says "Object touched." That shouldn't disqualified it right off, but I guess I glanced over it. Actually, if I remember correctly, "object" can not be used to describe a living being. The precident for this comes from the fact that a corpse is considered to be an object while an animated zombie is not. The "can't cast light on a person" thing is from the D&D FAQ (which I can send to you, if you would like). Still, though, it's sort of funny having a kobold fall over and clutch its eyes for (um...10 minutes per caster level at level 3...) 30 minutes or so. I imagine that it is. My old DM let me try this trick before we discovered that it couldn't be done. The roper we blinded was not very happy about it.
xect 10-03-03, 01:08 PM	Ignoring the problem with light not affecting creatures, you now stand in this situation: The kobold's eyes are now affected by light. Light itself is not damaging, and since the eyes themselves are glowing, one must assume that the eyes themselves are not staring "into" the powerfull light. Thus, you have a kobold whose eyes are glowing quite a lot. His eyes wouldnt hurt, however, if it wasnt for the fact that in order for the light spell to get there, he was poked in the eye by a half-orc.
Umlaut 10-03-03, 01:31 PM	A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two.
Nightshade22 10-03-03, 04:25 PM	Originally posted by Umlaut A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two. no,no kobold eye Ac: base + 10 dex + 1 size-fine + 8 = 19 (oh, and a AoO)
Grizelda 10-03-03, 04:28 PM	Originally posted by Umlaut A character in one of my groups cast Light on another players... goods, and that character proceeded to drop trou and light the party's way. It was a bit disturbing, but I allowed it because the group was having fun with it. If the player is having fun with something and is creative about it, I usually allow it. In this case I would probably make it an almost impossible act as detailed in the DMG. The character would have to get a critical success on hit attack roll, possibly two. two crit rolls for a half orc to poke a kobold in the eyes when standing on his toes? what the heck are you guys smoking? whats the kobold got an invisible forcefield helmet? admittedly one of D&Ds major failing since the dawn of time is the inability to create a decent set of rules for striking a certain area of a creatures body, especially since living creatures dont have any internal organs to damage they are just hit point sacks of blood, but even still maybe a -4 on a touch attack that provokes an attack of opportunity, unless the kobold was wearing a helmet which could impose an additional -2 to -8 penalty depending on the type. just my http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/my2cp.txt anyway. <btw: how are you guys getting smileys in your sigs? mine arent working for some reason.>