Applying the core mechanic to turning checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Applying the core mechanic to turning checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sebkha
08-21-07, 07:00 AM Here's a house rule that gives you essentially the same effect as the existing 3.5e turning rules, but without requiring the use of a separate table. The approach is to apply the core mechanic of comparing a d20 roll modified by a bonus against a target DC.

Undead creatures are considered to have a "Turn DC" of 10 + 3 x their hit dice. Think of it as an extra defense value, like AC or the SaGa-style saves.

Characters with turning ability have a "turn attack" of 3 x their level in the class that grants turning ability, modified by their Charisma bonus/penalty.

Now the turning check is just like a normal attack. The cleric rolls a d20, adds their "turn attack", and tries to hit the undead's DC. If it's a hit, turn damage is assessed as normal. The existing Extra Turning, Improved Turning, and Turn Resistance mechanics continue to work as normal.
heffroncm
08-21-07, 07:09 AM This works out slightly in the favor of the Undead, as a Cleric can no longer get the +4 effective level from the Turning Check. Otherwise, even in extreme instances (super-turner vs. Demi-lich), it works out effectively the same.
Nom
08-21-07, 08:18 AM I rather use the standard "special ability" DC of 10 + level/2 + Cha, against a Will save. Everything scales much more nicely. The current rules put way too much emphasis on HD/levels, resulting in very small differences (2+ levels) rapidly swinging the result from "almost impossible" to "nearly automatic".
Sebkha
08-21-07, 09:02 AM I rather use the standard "special ability" DC of 10 + level/2 + Cha, against a Will save. Everything scales much more nicely. The current rules put way too much emphasis on HD/levels, resulting in very small differences (2+ levels) rapidly swinging the result from "almost impossible" to "nearly automatic".

Admittedly, I wasn't trying change the effect of the rules, merely make them easier to resolve. The problem I might expect from reducing the HD multiplier from x3 down to x½ is that instead of relative spiritual power determining the outcome ("emphasis on HD/levels", as you say) it's the purely random d20 roll that dominates. Although the amount of randomness you like is just a matter of personal taste, it makes it tougher to portray the confident vampire lord who sets your crucifix on fire. The cleric can just keep trying until he flukes a high roll, so overall I'd say your variant nerfs the undead a bit.

I gather from checking out your web site that this is what you use in your home games. Any particular anecdotes about how it affects play?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sebkha 08-21-07, 07:00 AM	Here's a house rule that gives you essentially the same effect as the existing 3.5e turning rules, but without requiring the use of a separate table. The approach is to apply the core mechanic of comparing a d20 roll modified by a bonus against a target DC. Undead creatures are considered to have a "Turn DC" of 10 + 3 x their hit dice. Think of it as an extra defense value, like AC or the SaGa-style saves. Characters with turning ability have a "turn attack" of 3 x their level in the class that grants turning ability, modified by their Charisma bonus/penalty. Now the turning check is just like a normal attack. The cleric rolls a d20, adds their "turn attack", and tries to hit the undead's DC. If it's a hit, turn damage is assessed as normal. The existing Extra Turning, Improved Turning, and Turn Resistance mechanics continue to work as normal.
heffroncm 08-21-07, 07:09 AM	This works out slightly in the favor of the Undead, as a Cleric can no longer get the +4 effective level from the Turning Check. Otherwise, even in extreme instances (super-turner vs. Demi-lich), it works out effectively the same.
Nom 08-21-07, 08:18 AM	I rather use the standard "special ability" DC of 10 + level/2 + Cha, against a Will save. Everything scales much more nicely. The current rules put way too much emphasis on HD/levels, resulting in very small differences (2+ levels) rapidly swinging the result from "almost impossible" to "nearly automatic".
Sebkha 08-21-07, 09:02 AM	I rather use the standard "special ability" DC of 10 + level/2 + Cha, against a Will save. Everything scales much more nicely. The current rules put way too much emphasis on HD/levels, resulting in very small differences (2+ levels) rapidly swinging the result from "almost impossible" to "nearly automatic". Admittedly, I wasn't trying change the effect of the rules, merely make them easier to resolve. The problem I might expect from reducing the HD multiplier from x3 down to x½ is that instead of relative spiritual power determining the outcome ("emphasis on HD/levels", as you say) it's the purely random d20 roll that dominates. Although the amount of randomness you like is just a matter of personal taste, it makes it tougher to portray the confident vampire lord who sets your crucifix on fire. The cleric can just keep trying until he flukes a high roll, so overall I'd say your variant nerfs the undead a bit. I gather from checking out your web site that this is what you use in your home games. Any particular anecdotes about how it affects play?