Appropriate Party Level for a CR 4 Encounter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Appropriate Party Level for a CR 4 Encounter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Dark_One
10-05-04, 02:23 AM If I were writing a one-shot game for Worldwide Game Day (and I am), what should the party level be if I want the CR of the climacric battle to be a group of CR 4 creatures (maybe 4 of them).

For those of you who are curious, it is a Halloween/Voodoo type adventure. It takes place in a town on the edge of a swamp. The town is built on a series of dock-like wooden platforms (the ground is moist). The town is currently celebrating Jour des âmes perdues, the Day of Lost Souls. This is a holiday that combines Halloween and Mardi Gras. Some of the dead are able to come back and walk among their friends and families again, but only for one night (they must leave the world of the living at dawn).

The adventure takes place in the swamp. There are two main locations in the swamp: the Tower and the Graveyard.

The Graveyard is the place where the townspeople bury their dead. It is an island of magically created stone out in the swamp. The island is a large stone cube that has been riddled with tunnels where the dead are buried. The whole structure is magically treated to keep water out (any idea how to do this?) The place is crawling with the undead.

The Tower is the abandoned home of an ancient Boccor. He died one hundred years ago (to the night) and the place has been unoccupied since; though there have been stories of strange noises and lights in the place for deacades.

Possible encounters:
Zombies/Skeletons
The Black Ghost of the Water (not going to say what it is :mymy: Potential players might be reading).
Swamp Goblins/Goblin Witch-doctors
Dire Catfish (any ideas for stats for this thing??? :mymy: :confused: :eek: :mymy: ????)

By the way; I'm writing up the spell that allows temporary resurection. There is no level loss, but it can only last from dusk till dawn (any idea how long that would be around Halloween?). It can only be cast on four days of the Year (one in each season and each one a festival of some sort). It has a ten gold piece material component. It can bring back people who died of old age, but it only works once every ten years on a given individual. The soul must be willing for this spell to work. Any ideas on level?
Dash Branaghan
10-05-04, 02:33 AM To answer some questions:

If you're dealing with the standard party of four, they should be level 3 or 4 to deal with a CR 4 encounter, assuming the encounter is actually a CR 4. If you have multiple creatures that are CR 4 in level (ie. the 4 you suggested), a party of four people should be levels 7-9. For more info on that, check out the table 3-1 on Page 49 of the DMG (3.5v).

Halloween dusk until dawn depends on where in the world you are technically. The further north you are, the longer it will last. Around here (Vancouver, BC, west coast, just north of the Canada/US border), Halloween night will start around 6:00-6:30pm and end around 7:00-7:30am. You can estimate a rough equivalent of 13 hours or so.

I also recommend looking into the Night Hag as a possible encounter, as well as a werewolf, flesh golem (Frankenstein), Fiendish Locathah (Creature from the Black Lagoon), and Vampire. Just for the Halloween feel. Or maybe a Sleepy Hollow type village.

Dash
Primal
10-05-04, 02:39 AM For keeping out the water you could claim that the whole place is surrounded by a "Wall of Force" effect. That would keep the water out. Another option (better if you want allow for multiple entrances even underwater) would some water-reppellent spell.

As far as the climatic battle is concerned the Black Ghost of the Water sounds impressive although I do not know if it will be compatible with the water-repellent scenario above. But even the goblins could provide for a memorable show down if played well. I would avoid the Zombie/Skeleton and Catfish idea since these are not particualrly intelligent opponents and that tends to subtract from the sense of dread an intelligent opponent inspires (or should be inspiring) to the players.

I would consider the spell a 5th level spell. As to how long "dusk till dawn" is that depends not only on the time of the year but also on the location (at least the hemisphere). Northen hemisphere locations would have longer nights at Hallowen while southern hemisphere locations would have shorter nights at that time of the year. The difference would get smaller as one approaches the equinox but still the same rule applies.
The_Dark_One
10-05-04, 03:01 AM Actually, the Black Ghost of the Water is not at all what it would appear to be. The name comes from the fact that no one has ever seen it clearly. It is believed to be black, but the few sightings of the creature have taken place when it was in the swamp where the water appears black.

The idea is evolving that some of the PCs are local heroes from the town. They were killed and are being brought back to deal with a series of mysterious disappearances. Other PCs could simply be the heroic type who join in to help those in need.

There are those who believe that the undead of the Graveyard are getting out of control and are responsible for the disappearances. There are alos those who believe that the source of the trouble lies in the Tower. They believe that the Boccor is coming back for revenge.

The Dire Catfish were intended to be a random encounter. The PCs would fight one. If they take it back to town (there is a prize for the biggest one caught) they win the prize. Just a random bit of fun.
Sildatorak
10-05-04, 11:54 AM 4 CR 4 creatures is a EL 8 encounter. A level 3 party (assuming 4 players) will be on even ground with it if they are fully rested, which means that some of them will die (again). Yes, I am aware that a level 3 NPC party is an EL 7 encounter, but PC's have more gear.

I would suggest a level 5-7 party depending on how many other encounters you want to run. This link will take you to a very useful dm'ing tool, IMO.

http://www.geocities.com/edymnionii/EPLvsEL.html

Just figure out what encounters there are to be had, and keep track of the running total of the difficulty factors. By the end of the session the total should be someplace between 4 and 6 (depending on how many low difficulty encounters you use, it may be slightly lower than this). Remember that this is a one-shot and that the PC's will not have much fear of death since they are going to die at dawn anyway. It is okay to put a climactic battle that rational PC's would run away from as long as fanatical PC's can destroy the threat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Dark_One 10-05-04, 02:23 AM	If I were writing a one-shot game for Worldwide Game Day (and I am), what should the party level be if I want the CR of the climacric battle to be a group of CR 4 creatures (maybe 4 of them). For those of you who are curious, it is a Halloween/Voodoo type adventure. It takes place in a town on the edge of a swamp. The town is built on a series of dock-like wooden platforms (the ground is moist). The town is currently celebrating Jour des âmes perdues, the Day of Lost Souls. This is a holiday that combines Halloween and Mardi Gras. Some of the dead are able to come back and walk among their friends and families again, but only for one night (they must leave the world of the living at dawn). The adventure takes place in the swamp. There are two main locations in the swamp: the Tower and the Graveyard. The Graveyard is the place where the townspeople bury their dead. It is an island of magically created stone out in the swamp. The island is a large stone cube that has been riddled with tunnels where the dead are buried. The whole structure is magically treated to keep water out (any idea how to do this?) The place is crawling with the undead. The Tower is the abandoned home of an ancient Boccor. He died one hundred years ago (to the night) and the place has been unoccupied since; though there have been stories of strange noises and lights in the place for deacades. Possible encounters: Zombies/Skeletons The Black Ghost of the Water (not going to say what it is :mymy: Potential players might be reading). Swamp Goblins/Goblin Witch-doctors Dire Catfish (any ideas for stats for this thing??? :mymy: :confused: :eek: :mymy: ????) By the way; I'm writing up the spell that allows temporary resurection. There is no level loss, but it can only last from dusk till dawn (any idea how long that would be around Halloween?). It can only be cast on four days of the Year (one in each season and each one a festival of some sort). It has a ten gold piece material component. It can bring back people who died of old age, but it only works once every ten years on a given individual. The soul must be willing for this spell to work. Any ideas on level?
Dash Branaghan 10-05-04, 02:33 AM	To answer some questions: If you're dealing with the standard party of four, they should be level 3 or 4 to deal with a CR 4 encounter, assuming the encounter is actually a CR 4. If you have multiple creatures that are CR 4 in level (ie. the 4 you suggested), a party of four people should be levels 7-9. For more info on that, check out the table 3-1 on Page 49 of the DMG (3.5v). Halloween dusk until dawn depends on where in the world you are technically. The further north you are, the longer it will last. Around here (Vancouver, BC, west coast, just north of the Canada/US border), Halloween night will start around 6:00-6:30pm and end around 7:00-7:30am. You can estimate a rough equivalent of 13 hours or so. I also recommend looking into the Night Hag as a possible encounter, as well as a werewolf, flesh golem (Frankenstein), Fiendish Locathah (Creature from the Black Lagoon), and Vampire. Just for the Halloween feel. Or maybe a Sleepy Hollow type village. Dash
Primal 10-05-04, 02:39 AM	For keeping out the water you could claim that the whole place is surrounded by a "Wall of Force" effect. That would keep the water out. Another option (better if you want allow for multiple entrances even underwater) would some water-reppellent spell. As far as the climatic battle is concerned the Black Ghost of the Water sounds impressive although I do not know if it will be compatible with the water-repellent scenario above. But even the goblins could provide for a memorable show down if played well. I would avoid the Zombie/Skeleton and Catfish idea since these are not particualrly intelligent opponents and that tends to subtract from the sense of dread an intelligent opponent inspires (or should be inspiring) to the players. I would consider the spell a 5th level spell. As to how long "dusk till dawn" is that depends not only on the time of the year but also on the location (at least the hemisphere). Northen hemisphere locations would have longer nights at Hallowen while southern hemisphere locations would have shorter nights at that time of the year. The difference would get smaller as one approaches the equinox but still the same rule applies.
The_Dark_One 10-05-04, 03:01 AM	Actually, the Black Ghost of the Water is not at all what it would appear to be. The name comes from the fact that no one has ever seen it clearly. It is believed to be black, but the few sightings of the creature have taken place when it was in the swamp where the water appears black. The idea is evolving that some of the PCs are local heroes from the town. They were killed and are being brought back to deal with a series of mysterious disappearances. Other PCs could simply be the heroic type who join in to help those in need. There are those who believe that the undead of the Graveyard are getting out of control and are responsible for the disappearances. There are alos those who believe that the source of the trouble lies in the Tower. They believe that the Boccor is coming back for revenge. The Dire Catfish were intended to be a random encounter. The PCs would fight one. If they take it back to town (there is a prize for the biggest one caught) they win the prize. Just a random bit of fun.
Sildatorak 10-05-04, 11:54 AM	4 CR 4 creatures is a EL 8 encounter. A level 3 party (assuming 4 players) will be on even ground with it if they are fully rested, which means that some of them will die (again). Yes, I am aware that a level 3 NPC party is an EL 7 encounter, but PC's have more gear. I would suggest a level 5-7 party depending on how many other encounters you want to run. This link will take you to a very useful dm'ing tool, IMO. http://www.geocities.com/edymnionii/EPLvsEL.html Just figure out what encounters there are to be had, and keep track of the running total of the difficulty factors. By the end of the session the total should be someplace between 4 and 6 (depending on how many low difficulty encounters you use, it may be slightly lower than this). Remember that this is a one-shot and that the PC's will not have much fear of death since they are going to die at dawn anyway. It is okay to put a climactic battle that rational PC's would run away from as long as fanatical PC's can destroy the threat.