Archeron PC and Vow of Poverty [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archeron PC and Vow of Poverty [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
benoneofseven
09-30-05, 07:58 PM I allowed one of my PCs to be a Hound Archeron (using the Savage Species rules). He is starting at 4th level. Now he is interested in taking a Vow of Poverty. His AC would be high to start. He even considered taking a feat to get an armor proficiency, which would give him an AC of 20 or 21 I think.

My first question is this: is there any sense to allowing an Archeron to take a Vow of Poverty? There is nothing in the literature that says Archerons can't take such a vow, but I am stuck on the idea that an Archeron is an angel of sorts (even if he has a dog face!) already (maybe I should have thought of that before I said it was okay, but too late).

Second question is how to handle an Archeron character. Anyone with experience DMing such a PC?
Shemeska the Marauder
09-30-05, 08:58 PM My first question is this: is there any sense to allowing an Archeron to take a Vow of Poverty? There is nothing in the literature that says Archerons can't take such a vow, but I am stuck on the idea that an Archeron is an angel of sorts (even if he has a dog face!) already (maybe I should have thought of that before I said it was okay, but too late).

Those vows only really make sense for mortal PCs. Mortals are being constantly being tempted by evil desires, they have the ever present option via free will to willingly do evil acts, and by intentionally denying themselves sex, or material goods, etc it's a show of their inner strength and their transcendence above their mortal fallability.

Celestials are exemplars of one of the flavors of good, this Archon is an exemplar of Lawful Good. They don't suffer those temptations in the same way a mortal does. It makes no sense to give them the same benefit of those feats as a mortal would. They don't have the same psychology or fallability as mortals do. They don't suffer internally from denying themselves those things. It's not a show of strength if you don't suffer by that denial, and it doesn't make sense to get all those benefits of the feat when you don't have to really give up anything or suffer.

Second question is how to handle an Archeron character. Anyone with experience DMing such a PC?

Make damn sure they have a legit reason to be with the other PCs. Ultimately their commitment to Law and Good may go beyond their ties to the other PCs.

I've had a Lupinal (NG exemplar) in a game of mind before. Though by the end of that 3 year campaign she had fallen to true neutrality.
Lonestar
09-30-05, 09:01 PM You're first mistake was allowing vow of poverty. It's beatstick broken. Like broken right in half. If any of my pc's ever even THINK of asking for it, something will break alright, like their face.

Oh, and I belive the other guy had a excellent post on the character.
benoneofseven
09-30-05, 11:40 PM I worded that poorly. I allowed VoP in another campaign and he wanted it again for his new Archeron PC. I will tell him no way on VoP for the Archeron. Why do you say VoP is broken? Good comments.
IceFractal
10-01-05, 03:35 AM I don't really see why he could have Vow of Poverty. It makes a lot more sense than a Hound Archon wearing a bunch of magic items and wanting a share of the treasure - which is what will happen without the vow.

Maybe for Celestials, it isn't so much an unusual vow that a few take, as a code of conduct and granted powers that all are subject to, with only a few rare exceptions.

And it is in no way unbalanced to let him have it. The vow is balanced for any character that would normally have magic items, even including Monks (who are more item-dependant than you might think, especially at higher levels).
Jancarius
10-01-05, 03:49 AM I wouldn't allow them to take it as a Hound Archon, on the mortality reasons cited above.
Owiercyn
10-01-05, 04:38 AM He has a choice really. If he wants to take Armor Proficiency, he's not going to be able to have the Vow of Poverty. Personally, I wouldn't allow the vow of poverty, but I see nothing wrong with a Hound Archon hunting evil in (eventually) Celestial Chainmail. Being as they are extremely militant, it would almost make sense for them to have armor. Yes, he is going to have a high armor class. Don't be afraid to throw Ghosts and specters at him (which have nasty touch attacks) and use mages with ranged touch attack spells as well. Every strength has its weakness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
benoneofseven 09-30-05, 07:58 PM	I allowed one of my PCs to be a Hound Archeron (using the Savage Species rules). He is starting at 4th level. Now he is interested in taking a Vow of Poverty. His AC would be high to start. He even considered taking a feat to get an armor proficiency, which would give him an AC of 20 or 21 I think. My first question is this: is there any sense to allowing an Archeron to take a Vow of Poverty? There is nothing in the literature that says Archerons can't take such a vow, but I am stuck on the idea that an Archeron is an angel of sorts (even if he has a dog face!) already (maybe I should have thought of that before I said it was okay, but too late). Second question is how to handle an Archeron character. Anyone with experience DMing such a PC?
Shemeska the Marauder 09-30-05, 08:58 PM	My first question is this: is there any sense to allowing an Archeron to take a Vow of Poverty? There is nothing in the literature that says Archerons can't take such a vow, but I am stuck on the idea that an Archeron is an angel of sorts (even if he has a dog face!) already (maybe I should have thought of that before I said it was okay, but too late). Those vows only really make sense for mortal PCs. Mortals are being constantly being tempted by evil desires, they have the ever present option via free will to willingly do evil acts, and by intentionally denying themselves sex, or material goods, etc it's a show of their inner strength and their transcendence above their mortal fallability. Celestials are exemplars of one of the flavors of good, this Archon is an exemplar of Lawful Good. They don't suffer those temptations in the same way a mortal does. It makes no sense to give them the same benefit of those feats as a mortal would. They don't have the same psychology or fallability as mortals do. They don't suffer internally from denying themselves those things. It's not a show of strength if you don't suffer by that denial, and it doesn't make sense to get all those benefits of the feat when you don't have to really give up anything or suffer. Second question is how to handle an Archeron character. Anyone with experience DMing such a PC? Make damn sure they have a legit reason to be with the other PCs. Ultimately their commitment to Law and Good may go beyond their ties to the other PCs. I've had a Lupinal (NG exemplar) in a game of mind before. Though by the end of that 3 year campaign she had fallen to true neutrality.
Lonestar 09-30-05, 09:01 PM	You're first mistake was allowing vow of poverty. It's beatstick broken. Like broken right in half. If any of my pc's ever even THINK of asking for it, something will break alright, like their face. Oh, and I belive the other guy had a excellent post on the character.
benoneofseven 09-30-05, 11:40 PM	I worded that poorly. I allowed VoP in another campaign and he wanted it again for his new Archeron PC. I will tell him no way on VoP for the Archeron. Why do you say VoP is broken? Good comments.
IceFractal 10-01-05, 03:35 AM	I don't really see why he could have Vow of Poverty. It makes a lot more sense than a Hound Archon wearing a bunch of magic items and wanting a share of the treasure - which is what will happen without the vow. Maybe for Celestials, it isn't so much an unusual vow that a few take, as a code of conduct and granted powers that all are subject to, with only a few rare exceptions. And it is in no way unbalanced to let him have it. The vow is balanced for any character that would normally have magic items, even including Monks (who are more item-dependant than you might think, especially at higher levels).
Jancarius 10-01-05, 03:49 AM	I wouldn't allow them to take it as a Hound Archon, on the mortality reasons cited above.
Owiercyn 10-01-05, 04:38 AM	He has a choice really. If he wants to take Armor Proficiency, he's not going to be able to have the Vow of Poverty. Personally, I wouldn't allow the vow of poverty, but I see nothing wrong with a Hound Archon hunting evil in (eventually) Celestial Chainmail. Being as they are extremely militant, it would almost make sense for them to have armor. Yes, he is going to have a high armor class. Don't be afraid to throw Ghosts and specters at him (which have nasty touch attacks) and use mages with ranged touch attack spells as well. Every strength has its weakness.