Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Last City 05-08-06, 02:59 AM	I'll liked to know what you guys think of rangers as archers in dnd? Unless you prestige to arcane archer, peerless archer or bow of the order initiate... your archer character doesnt have what it takes to make an impression compared to fighters in melee? A Ranger that goes range all the way as his primary weapon... even at level 10++ he is still doing only 1d6 damage + his composite bow. That sorta damage doesnt pass through DR! Most monsters dont even bother single d6 damage! Doesnt this sorta hint that ranger archery in dnd basically sux unless you prestige? especially when you're a ranger, coz you dont have weapon spealization to increase damage. :confused: scouts got skirmish, rogues can still range sneak attack, fighters can weapon specialize... but rangers cant boast their range damage :confused:
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-08-06, 03:08 AM	:thinks: +# Flaming, Shocking, Frost, Merciful, Speed mighty composite longbow keyed to exceptionally high Str?
Entheogenic 05-08-06, 03:18 AM	+2 for point blank shot, etc. There are lots of nice archery feats that can let you pump your damage up. They're definitely not underpowered--there's an archer in out campaign that performs just as well as the melee fighter (we're all level 13). Entheogenic
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-06, 03:21 AM	Ranger with wand or spell access to Hunter's Mercy and oils of Bless Weapon? Especially when combined with the Manyshot evade? It's for this very reason that the best archer builds out there (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183604) all contain levels in Ranger. (The Manyshot evade is a way of applying benefits that seem like they should affect one arrow to all of them. Note how all Manyshot arrows are keyed off the same attack roll, and several effects enhance your next attack roll. The simplest version of this is still True Strike + Manyshot, although Hunter's Mercy/Bless Weapon is, in my opinion, far better.) Additionally, there are *other* PrCs than those three, and several are very effective. See the link above for more information.
Nyaz 05-08-06, 05:22 AM	And don't forget that with a decent bow and feats he can lash out arrows at the heavily armoured fighter 100+ feet away without penalty, way beyond the distance the tank can charge and slash him down with his greatsword/greataxe. So he gets two full round to attack (in ideal circumstances), plus can then switch to melee weapons if necessary.
aotrscommander 05-08-06, 08:59 AM	You didn't mention multiclassing... One of my players has a tiefling fighter/ranger. even before he went Deep Wood Sniper, he was dealing out horrendous amounts of damage.
Eightbitmage 05-08-06, 09:25 AM	1d6? Why not 1d8? Also an archer with a longbow is doing exactly as much damage as a sword and board fighter, but doesn't gain the +2 from specilization, only instead of defending himself with AC he defends with distance. Also don't underestimate many shot. That can be a lot of damage considering it isn't full round to do and also doesn't need special circumstances (like SA)
Morrowner 05-08-06, 10:42 AM	The +3 enchantment called Splitting which makes each arrow count as 2 arrows along with Haste, Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot and ManyShot and Greater Manyshot is SICK. High level I know but Holy Hannah is it crazy. With some of the builds in that link you can get insane damage, 400+, by 10th level.
Pegasos989 05-08-06, 10:53 AM	And don't forget that with a decent bow and feats he can lash out arrows at the heavily armoured fighter 100+ feet away without penalty, way beyond the distance the tank can charge and slash him down with his greatsword/greataxe. So he gets two full round to attack (in ideal circumstances), plus can then switch to melee weapons if necessary. Not to mention that he can attack the enemies inside entanglement, evard's black tentacles and similar spells, to which fighters wouldn't want to go.
Arganis 05-08-06, 11:09 AM	Prestige-class archers are the underpowered ones. Even if you stick to the Core, avoiding the Greater Improved Super Scratch My Back Manyshot feats, single-classed, bow-spec Rangers are forces to be reckoned with. Low damage per shot This is sort of true, but is mitigated by a few factors. Arguing that a ranger's Shocking Bow gives them more damage is no good, because it's a benefit a fighter can quickly duplicate with a Shocking Greatsword. The only argument you can make here is that once you get a reasonable mighty composite bow, your damage output per-hit is "not that bad" or "almost as good" in general. However, the Ranger's Favored Enemy bonus to damage becomes obscene, situationally. High Attack Score While it is harder for rangers to raise their damage output, it is very easy for them to gain ridiculous bonuses to attack. Without the benefits of Combat Expertise or Power Attack, a ranger is free to use their entire bonus to hit. Multiple Attacks First, Rapid Shot is far better than Many Shot. While a versatile ranger may have both, given a choice one should probably take Rapid. However, feats that grant more attacks are just icing on the cake. The real advantage of a ranger over a fighter or other meleer is that the meleers are not going to be making full attacks every round, while a ranger almost always is. So, hit for a little bit less in general, but sometimes a little bit more, and hit more often, at a distance. Ranger wins!
Twisted Puppy 05-08-06, 12:27 PM	A Ranger that goes range all the way as his primary weapon... even at level 10++ he is still doing only 1d6 damage + his composite bow. That sorta damage doesnt pass through DR! Most monsters dont even bother single d6 damage! Doesnt this sorta hint that ranger archery in dnd basically sux unless you prestige? especially when you're a ranger, coz you dont have weapon spealization to increase damage. :confused: Actually, the damage is d8+ (Composite bow strength bonus - let's assume +2) + (Enchantment bonus), and add one if you are close enough for Point Blank Shot. At level 10 the weapon is probably at least a +2 weapon, maybe with something like Icy Burst, etc added on. If you are shooting at a favored enemy, the damage goes up more. You're looking at an average of 8.5 points of damage at long range, not including the favored enemy bonus. scouts got skirmish, rogues can still range sneak attack, fighters can weapon specialize... but rangers cant boast their range damage :confused: Rangers have the ability to track, spells, animal companion... The game is not restricted to combat. You can't fight the bad guys if you can't find them, which is why a Ranger is so handy :D
solbergb 05-08-06, 12:34 PM	Rangers do get a damage boost. Against their favored enemies. Quite a lot of boost if you stick with the class. Core fighter, core ranger or a mix of the two can make a very powerful archer. Frankly the 3.5 archer PRC's don't really add much to the core capability (assuming the party cleric or wizard casts GMW on their bow...if not then arcane archers hit/damage boost for arrows adds up). PRC's mostly add fluff things that aren't any better as just doing a full attack volley with a core class. The strength of archers in D&D 3.5 are 1. Full attack without having to move 2. Easier to swap in special materials or special purpose arrows one one massively enchanted bow (instead of the "golf bag of weapons" thing fighters have to do) They do a little less per hit, but their average damage is generally higher than any other physical weapon class (assuming at least 18 strength somehow by the time they get a nice bow)
Mirage_1 05-08-06, 12:51 PM	surprised no one has mentioned scouts.....IMHO the best archer class out there. A little movement combined with greater manyshot (I think that is name..from Xpsi) that lets you add your skirmish damage to your manyshot, and bab, a high level archer focused scout...although lowere BAB is dishing out a bunch of shots with an extra 3d6 damage per shot. Could twink it and exchange out 4 scout levels for 4 fighter levels for the 1 more shot along with the weapon spec. Yup, those PrC's will just slow ya down
Milandros 05-08-06, 12:57 PM	Considered as part of a team, definitely not. I ran a game last Saturday in which my group of 3 5th, 1 3rd and a 4th level character (the 4th was a scout/psychic warrior designed as an archer) faced a large number of hobgoblin foes, a bearded devil and a 6th-level bugbear sorceror. The archer was vital - critical in fact. Not only can an archer decide where on the battlefield to strike (very useful in this fight when the fighter didn't quite kill an enemy, so the archer would finish it off, removing an opponent before it's turn), it can be very flexible with readied actions intended to disrupt spellcasting or stop events from happening. In this case, despite attepted evasion by the sorceror, two 6d6 lightning bolts were successfully disrupted by readying an action to shoot as soon as the sorceror started chanting - actions on which the entire battle probably turned. The players won a hard-fought but solid victory, in which the archer played a vital part. Good teamwork won the day.
Zherog 05-08-06, 01:17 PM	+2 for point blank shot, etc. +1. ;) One thing to keep in mind when comparing an archer's damage output to a "sword and board" fighter - the archer gets to make a full attack much more often; they don't have to charge the enemy in the surprise round or first round. Instead, they use Manyshot or make a full attack to get a full volley of arrows. They use Rapid Shot just about every round, because they're taking a full attack; so now they have an additional attack at their highest BAB. They're not even excluded from doing all sorts of cool things. They can take Ranged Disarm and shoot things out of the enemy's hands; they can take Ranged Pin and stick an enemy to the wall or a tree. And so on. They also get to apply weapon enhancements to both their bow and their arrows, permitting them to exceed the +10 limit on enhancements. For example, the ranger can have a +5 speed, seeking, keen bow (a +10 equiv. weapon) and fire off a +1 acidic, frost, axiomatic, holy arrow (a +7 equiv. weapon). The net effect is a +5 to attack and damage, an increased threat range, 1d6 acid damage, 1d6 cold damage, 2d6 lawful damage, and 2d6 holy damage; the bow also disregards cover and concealment. He can even have a bunch of different magical arrows for different situations. He can have 10 bane (dragon) arrows, and then 10 bane (human) arrows, and then 10 bane (aberrations) arrows, and so. He can easily have a mix of adamantine and cold iron and silver arrow heads, allowing him to more easily bypass DR. There's a lot of things that make an archer more powerful than a typical "sword and board" style fighter.
StruckingFuggle 05-08-06, 01:46 PM	I'm surprised I'm the first, but... Don't forget ye olde Human Elf/Time domain Cloistered-Cleric-Archer with Zen Archery and a +1 Splitting Corrosive Screaming Shocking Flaming Frost Composite Longbow of Distance with an Extend-Spelled Greater Magic Weapon on it ... (assuming no resistances, that's 1d8 +[Caster Level / 4] +Str +6d6 PER ARROW (granted, off of a +8 weapon) ... feats would be Domain Bonus: Improved Initative Domain Bonus: Point Blank Shot Human Bonus: Precise Shot (or Able Learner) 1st Level: Zen Archery 3rd: Rapid Shot 6th: Extend Spell 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th could be whatever you want. Persist, Divine Persist & Extra Turning; Manyshot and Greater Manyshot ... whatever. Alternatively, you can drop Time for Spell and use Anyspell / Greater Anyspell to get Blink or Greater Blink, and unload all of your arrows / round against opponents who usually don't have their dex bonus. :) Also: Extended Divine Power and Righteous Might. Either keep them prepared (extended spell metamagic rods, hello) and use your first round to buff up (even better if you've also got a rod of quicken. Tasty), or go Divine Persist and a couple nightsticks ... speaking of which, key your bow's strength rating to your buffed strength, not your lower one. You SHOULD be out of melee range (and if you take the spell domain, either invisible or blinking during combat) .. though you'll be in Dispell Magic range, that's what Globe of Invulnurability should be for, and rings of counterspell.
Vanulf 05-08-06, 03:27 PM	one thing to pick up for your archer types is Boots of Levitation, Boots of Flying, or Slippers of Spider Climbing. Levitate, Fly or Climb your way out of melee range and just pepper the bejuss out of the bad guys.
HIDragonstar 05-08-06, 05:00 PM	Looking at it, when getting to the higher and higher levels. Core Fighter arches are among the best that I can see. With Weapon Specilizations, high BAB, several Archery feats. You can have a dangerous fighter. In the present game I'm player, everyone was wondering why I placed so many levels in fighter. Then I picked up Shot on the Run, with Rapid Shot, Manyshot and my damage output sometimes outclasses the Barbarian Dwarf. Don't forget the x3 Critical of a Longbow. I'm also know as the 'Batman' of the group. Since I regularly carry silver arrows, cold iron arrows, adamantine arrows, flight arrows, blunt arrows, alchemist arrows, thunder arrows, and signal arrows. My only major limitation is I usually run out of ammunition. (Been looking for a decent quiver with the ability to make normal arrows, that isn't evil.) So I have to carry around 2 quivers of Ehlonna filled with arrows.
Zherog 05-08-06, 06:15 PM	Then I picked up Shot on the Run, with Rapid Shot, Manyshot ... These three feats cannot be combined in any form.
Lord Ian Stark 05-08-06, 06:43 PM	Prestige-class archers are the underpowered ones. Have you seen the Deepwood Sniper PrC?
HIDragonstar 05-08-06, 06:43 PM	Sorry, didn't mean to imply I use them at once. Mostly just staying in and out of skirmish range with Shot on the Run. I'm I'm stationary, the Rapid Shot and Manyshot came in handy depending on what I'm aiming at. I've mostly used Shot on the Run constantly now.
StruckingFuggle 05-08-06, 07:41 PM	Have you seen the Deepwood Sniper PrC? Or the Peerless Archer? (woohoo for Ranged Power Attack!)
Zherog 05-08-06, 09:08 PM	Sorry, didn't mean to imply I use them at once. Mostly just staying in and out of skirmish range with Shot on the Run. I'm I'm stationary, the Rapid Shot and Manyshot came in handy depending on what I'm aiming at. I've mostly used Shot on the Run constantly now. Nah. No worries, it's my bad. I've seen so many people post on these boards who think those all work in combination that I just sort of assume it. :blush:
feartheinvinceblehamster 05-08-06, 09:22 PM	Fighter: Weapon focus(longbow), point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, weapon specialization(longbow), Manyshot, improved manyshot, shot on the run, greater weapon focus(longbow), improved critical(longbow), Greater weapon specialization(longbow) you get the point. You can take feats like improved crit and weapon specialization with a ranged weapon, can't you?
Zherog 05-08-06, 09:24 PM	Yep, you can.
Cudgel 05-08-06, 09:37 PM	Also if you wanted to spend the feat you could use a composite great bow 1d10 x3 with a range increment of 130ft, from the CW. I have a player in my game how so far slays most things way before melee.
Wuggadad 05-09-06, 12:39 AM	As I said on a similar thread in Regdar's, the strength in the archer isn't in damage per turn. It is in the ratio of damage that they deal out per turn to the damage they are subject to. An archer with a composite long bow with the Long Range enhancement and Far Shot is at close range out to 330'. And they only take -2 to hit out to 660. At beyond fireball range, they take only a -4 penalty out at 990'. (well, beyond for some levels, anyway) The problem for archers, as the problem for stealth players, is that the other players, bored while the archer plinks or the stealth guy slinks, will change the battle into one where total damage per turn is the deciding factor. Feats like Able Sniper, Woodland Archer, and Concealed Ambush all depend on the archer being able to take his time. To shoot, move to a new location, and shoot again. (Really fun with Horizon Walker 6, and Dim Door every d4 turns, but you said no Prestige Classes).
Balseraph 05-09-06, 01:19 AM	I played an elven fighter from 5 (starting level for the campaign) to 18 without any problems at all. Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Shot on the Run, Improved Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), Weapon Specialization (Composite Longbow), Greater Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), Greater Weapon Specialization (Composite Longbow), Improved Mounted Archery, Improved Rapid Shot, Sharp Shooting, Ranged Disarm. That's at 18th level, of course, but fighters can pull it off. :) I also continued to upgrade statistics and my weapon as often as possible, culminating in a +5 Speed, Distance, Merciful mighty composite longbow (+4). That's 1d8+13 (+14 within 30ft). 6 attacks as a full-round action, which can be done on the move while mounted... So no: I wouldn't consider a non-PrC archer to be underpowered. I only had a quick look through my book and can't find the character sheet for him, but I'm pretty sure I nailed down the gist of it, even if I muddled up a few details along the way.
Derren S. 05-09-06, 01:24 AM	Archers underpowered? If you ask me archers, in any form are far from underpowered. If they are anything then they are close to beeing overpowered.
Last City 05-09-06, 01:47 AM	I see I once again have created some misunderstanding in my thread :embarrass Ok, more specificly: Rangers as archers... I do not doubt fighters, scouts, rogue can make nice archer roles... but what about rangers? Also as a PURE RANGER: no multiclassing,prestige classing... is the "pure ranger" an underpowered archer in DND compared to the other classes? How is the pure ranger going to booast his attack (magic weapons)? The combat style seems nothing compared to a fighter class that wants to spent all his feats on archery... so yeah... is the ranger an underpowered archer?
Jkorik 05-09-06, 04:07 AM	In the Quentessential Fighter book 1 is a chapter based on fighting styles. There is one specifically for Archer type characters. It is called "Blackfeather Archer". This is NOT a prestige class and will give a non-prestige archer a decent boost in his/her abilities. LESSON ONE: INITIATE (duck and shoot) Whe firing behind cover, the initiate counts as being in one level better cover than he actually is. May not improve cover beyond 9/10ths. LESSON TWO: FREEHAND (footspike) When carrying out a full attack action, the Freehand may forgo any additional attack to make one footspike attack roll. If he hits, the target makes a Fortitude save DC 20. Failure reduces targets movement by half until healed. LESSON THREE: ARCHER (Overdraw): Take a -2 to hit but gain +2 damage. LESSON FOUR: BLACK ARCHER (Trick Shot): All penalties for range, size and movement are halved. Usable only for 1 attack/round. LESSON FIVE: MASTER ARCHER (Armour piercing): Instaid of making normal ranged attacks rolls to strike a target, a Master Archer need only make ranged touch attacks when using a longbow. Each lessong has requirements that must be met. X number ranks in certain skills, feats, base attack bonus ect. Multiclass Fighter/Ranger is the very best I have seen and currently play. Fighter levels will help out alot, due to the Weapon Specialization feat. This feat opens the door for Weapon Mastery and Elite Weapon Mastery. Combined, these 2 feats increase the die type of damage you inflict with your bow (ie d6 goes to d8 ect) and increases the critical multiplier. Hope this helps out :P
Cadfan 05-09-06, 04:19 AM	I do not believe that the ranger is an underpowered archer. If you compare to the fighter, the fighter gets some neat abilities that let him do more damage than the ranger. The fighter gets weapon specialization. The fighter can more easily afford improved critical. Etc. But the ranger isn't exactly without compensation. He's got 4 more skill points per level, with a better skill list to select from. He can snipe, the fighter won't be able to. He gets a few bonus feats, so he's not THAT far behind. He gets spells, some of which are very, very nice at higher levels. With longstrider, he runs faster. With barkskin, he has a better AC. And so forth. He has a better reflex save, and evasion. He can track. He gets some favored enemies. So, in summation, not being able to fight as well as a fighter is not automatically the same thing as being underpowered. The ranger has many other abilities besides sheer damage. Look to those, and you'll see he's not underpowered.
Mirage_1 05-09-06, 08:36 AM	= So, in summation, not being able to fight as well as a fighter is not automatically the same thing as being underpowered. The ranger has many other abilities besides sheer damage. Look to those, and you'll see he's not underpowered. I'll second this one. A ranger is much more than an archer (heck, they just recently got archery worth mentioning instead of that odd facination with 2 weapons). Add in small things like an animal companion, spells, tracking, etc., they need to be a bit weaker elsewhere or why bother playing the fighter
Leilond 05-09-06, 09:25 AM	I do not believe that the ranger is an underpowered archer. If you compare to the fighter, the fighter gets some neat abilities that let him do more damage than the ranger. The fighter gets weapon specialization. The fighter can more easily afford improved critical. Etc. But the ranger isn't exactly without compensation. He's got 4 more skill points per level, with a better skill list to select from. He can snipe, the fighter won't be able to. He gets a few bonus feats, so he's not THAT far behind. He gets spells, some of which are very, very nice at higher levels. With longstrider, he runs faster. With barkskin, he has a better AC. And so forth. He has a better reflex save, and evasion. He can track. He gets some favored enemies. So, in summation, not being able to fight as well as a fighter is not automatically the same thing as being underpowered. The ranger has many other abilities besides sheer damage. Look to those, and you'll see he's not underpowered. That's the point! But you must also say that the "Archer Feats" require a very high dexterity value for the warrior but NOT FOR THE RANGER... That make more easy for the ranger to use his bow, with a good Strenght and Costitution value because he doesn't really need to pump up his dex over 16 ;)
DarknessEternal 05-09-06, 12:04 PM	Rangers ARE NOT Fighters. Lots of people make the mistake of assuming they are. A Fighter with a bow will make a Ranger look like a Wizard with a bow. That's how the game is designed. A Ranger will never put up the kind of bow damage a Fighter can do in his sleep. The thing a Ranger has going for him is EVERYTHING ELSE.
Tempest Stormwind 05-09-06, 12:28 PM	Due to his spells, Darkness, a ranger *can* outdo a fighter with bow damage, and do so easily. Even without it, look at your options for bow damage. Accuracy? Both classes have full base attack. Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot / Manyshot? Both classes get them as bonus feats. Magic bow? It's gear. Both classes have money. The only source of damage a fighter has over a ranger is Weapon Specialization, which is a sub-par feat in most regards anyway (and the cost, 4 levels in a terribly built class, is nothing to scoff at). Additionally, the ranger has Favored Enemy, which (while rarer than Weapon Spec) is far, far stronger and with proper choices can apply nearly all the time. A fighter may find it slightly easier to get all the feats to power up the bow slightly, but a ranger who spends his feats on them matches the fighter for each step. There aren't that many feats that matter for an archer looking for damage -- most of the power of an archer comes from the bow (see above) and prestige class features (at which point we aren't comparing fighter and ranger). And all of this is before you factor in spells like Hunter's Mercy. It's a fallacy in this game to think that a fighter is a damage machine. He isn't (and hasn't been since the revision to 3.0). His class features lend themselves well to a combat maneuver specialist and defensive tank, not a damage dealer (one, maybe two feats add small amounts of damage, while most feats add or improve combat techniques or improve your defense). The picture of an iconic 'optimized' fighter at the moment is something like a battlefield controller (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005) which serves as a tank. If you want damage, take a barbarian (or monk, in extreme cases with a lot of source material). If you want fancy combat tricks, take levels in Fighter -- which, coincidentally, is why most people who multiclass Fighter do so. It's still a poorly built class, but if you're going to use it, at least use it for what it's actually good at.
Pegasos989 05-09-06, 01:01 PM	I don't get why so many people, such as stormwind, complain about fighter being a terribly built class. Seriously, even without PHP II you could make very strong fighter that was also strong when party was attacked during night or many times a day (when a wizard has limited amount of spells and no armour). But back to the thread. Ranger doesn't mean that youa re the best in ranged combat. It is a class name. You get good in ranged combat and a wide variety of useful abilities (track, animal companion, spells...) so the class is certainly not underpowered! Even if it is a bit less efficient in ranged fighting than... well... fighter, it is still a strong class.
HIDragonstar 05-09-06, 03:58 PM	If Rangers seem a little underpowered compared to Fighters in combat, its because they aren't 100% specialized as Fighters. You lack the number of feats needed to increase the weapon damage in a general sense. What the Ranger DOES have is the Spells, Skills, and the all important Favored Enemy. If anything the Ranger has a Specialization against a Favored Enemy which would do more damage (potentially +6 at lvl 10).
kelvinaw273 05-09-06, 04:57 PM	It actually depends a lot on the feats you choose as your normal feats. The bonus feats help, of course, but you need to soup them up a bit. Also, why 1d6??? Any archer with a brain will take a Mighty Composite Greatbow for 1d10+ damage per arrow. Then you have to use tactics - a ranged fighter is best oiff in the open, not creeping a round a dungeon.
Xykon 05-09-06, 11:04 PM	I see I once again have created some misunderstanding in my thread :embarrass Ok, more specificly: Rangers as archers... I do not doubt fighters, scouts, rogue can make nice archer roles... but what about rangers? Also as a PURE RANGER: no multiclassing,prestige classing... is the "pure ranger" an underpowered archer in DND compared to the other classes? How is the pure ranger going to booast his attack (magic weapons)? The combat style seems nothing compared to a fighter class that wants to spent all his feats on archery... so yeah... is the ranger an underpowered archer? Well, rangers are quite underpowered in what they do anyway -- except for tracking... And even that a barbarian can equal if they took the track feat. And you're quite right, fighters specializing in archery would make a more effective archer than a ranger. Ways to boost it: 1. Have a high STR - and get a high STR rating of composite longbow. 2. Get some sort of tool to avoid melee as well as getting a better view of the battle field. Boots of flying or spider climbing comes into mind. Otherwise, the AoO's in melee will be very painful to the ranger's d8 hit points... 3. Magic items rule. More enhancement on your longbow the better. I usually go for "flaming" first and then build on... On a class-per-class basis, you can't beat the fighter in archery effectiveness. And its fair, because rangers sacrificed that (and his hitpoints) to gain a bunch of gimmicks (i.e. wild emphathy, animal companion, spells).