Archivist class - any concerns? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archivist class - any concerns? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MarkB
11-02-05, 05:33 PM One of my players has asked to play an Archivist from Heroes of Horror. I don't have the sourcebook, but the class is available in the online preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3).

At a glance, it looks reasonably balanced (somewhere between Cleric, Wizard and Bard, as far as I can see), but since it's a new class and I have no experience with it, I just wanted to check that there aren't any horror :) stories around from DMs whose players have used the class.

Does it translate reasonably well into a non-horror game? The game I'm running is a pretty standard Eberron campaign.
scout989
11-02-05, 05:37 PM I haven't played with that yet, but from everything I hear, it will be highly DM-dependant as to whether there is any brokenness to that class. The Archivist has the potential to learn every divine spell in the game (if they spent all their gold on nothing but learning spells, that is). This means that, what with domains and all, they can get access to just about every good spell on any spell list anywhere, according to some. Essentially, it boils down to whether or not the DM lets them find or buy a scroll of every spell that they want- that's the only way they can get spells that are not on the base cleric list.
Crimson_Concerto
11-02-05, 05:47 PM If you have a hand in controling the spells it is able to find, it should be no problem at all.
rbrt_Spade
11-02-05, 05:56 PM I would say its balanced. Its like the warlock,spellsword, and bard. The classes have a little magic,all right combat, and good skills. Its just one of those classes thats a mix of everything. I think it is a bit underpowered though. Some things i think that they should change is the hit die to d6 & the armor prof. In trade to boost it up a bit. Nice flavor though! Good job wotc(liking the prayer book).
HamHam
11-02-05, 06:06 PM The CO boards are having a field day over it. Still, as long as they won't be going and getting every obscure spell from some best forgotten Forgotten Realms 3.0 splat book... it should be fine.
Nagol
11-02-05, 06:16 PM At first glance, it needs a ruling around what level a spell is treated as being if it is on more than one divine list. Partial casters get spells at odd spell levels so that they can cast on par with the full casters Lesser Restoration at 1st, Resist Energy at 1st, etc.

Another thought is Domain spells are Divine, so technically, the Archivist can learn them as well.
allenchan
11-02-05, 06:28 PM I haven't played with that yet, but from everything I hear, it will be highly DM-dependant as to whether there is any brokenness to that class. The Archivist has the potential to learn every divine spell in the game (if they spent all their gold on nothing but learning spells, that is). This means that, what with domains and all, they can get access to just about every good spell on any spell list anywhere, according to some. Essentially, it boils down to whether or not the DM lets them find or buy a scroll of every spell that they want- that's the only way they can get spells that are not on the base cleric list.

Just to reiterate, this post is absolutely correct. The CO boards crap thier pants over this class, but they assume DMs are nonexistant for the sake of mechanical ease. If high-level adepts and paladins with a bunch of free time dont exist in your world, you should be fine.
MarkB
11-02-05, 07:16 PM Thanks for the advice. Sounds like this class should be fine with a bit of sensible management.
clarkvalentine
11-02-05, 07:17 PM Looks fine to me. My Dragonlance GM - whose opinion I trust in matters of balance - is thinking it would make a good class to model Librarians of Gilean.
feartheinvinceblehamster
11-02-05, 10:00 PM some best forgotten Forgotten Realms 3.0 splat book...

Isn't that how Pun-Pun was made?
Ongorth
11-02-05, 10:01 PM The ability to daze or stun creatures as a move action with no save or spell resistance is extremely powerful. One round out of combat in D&D is huge, particularly since the archivist can still cast in the same round, its nots even trading actions (always advantageous in the traditional 4v1 battles), its better. While the archivist needs to invest skill ranks to use this, its almost a moot point since those skill points need to be invested anyway to use most of the classes unique features and int is the primary casting stat.

While the final call is between your group, I do question the dread secret power and would certainly not find it unreasonable to give it a standard (10+1/2 level+attribute) will save to negate.
allenchan
11-02-05, 11:11 PM Isn't that how Pun-Pun was made?

No, Serpent Kingdoms is a 3.5 FR supplement.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MarkB 11-02-05, 05:33 PM	One of my players has asked to play an Archivist from Heroes of Horror. I don't have the sourcebook, but the class is available in the online preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). At a glance, it looks reasonably balanced (somewhere between Cleric, Wizard and Bard, as far as I can see), but since it's a new class and I have no experience with it, I just wanted to check that there aren't any horror :) stories around from DMs whose players have used the class. Does it translate reasonably well into a non-horror game? The game I'm running is a pretty standard Eberron campaign.
scout989 11-02-05, 05:37 PM	I haven't played with that yet, but from everything I hear, it will be highly DM-dependant as to whether there is any brokenness to that class. The Archivist has the potential to learn every divine spell in the game (if they spent all their gold on nothing but learning spells, that is). This means that, what with domains and all, they can get access to just about every good spell on any spell list anywhere, according to some. Essentially, it boils down to whether or not the DM lets them find or buy a scroll of every spell that they want- that's the only way they can get spells that are not on the base cleric list.
Crimson_Concerto 11-02-05, 05:47 PM	If you have a hand in controling the spells it is able to find, it should be no problem at all.
rbrt_Spade 11-02-05, 05:56 PM	I would say its balanced. Its like the warlock,spellsword, and bard. The classes have a little magic,all right combat, and good skills. Its just one of those classes thats a mix of everything. I think it is a bit underpowered though. Some things i think that they should change is the hit die to d6 & the armor prof. In trade to boost it up a bit. Nice flavor though! Good job wotc(liking the prayer book).
HamHam 11-02-05, 06:06 PM	The CO boards are having a field day over it. Still, as long as they won't be going and getting every obscure spell from some best forgotten Forgotten Realms 3.0 splat book... it should be fine.
Nagol 11-02-05, 06:16 PM	At first glance, it needs a ruling around what level a spell is treated as being if it is on more than one divine list. Partial casters get spells at odd spell levels so that they can cast on par with the full casters Lesser Restoration at 1st, Resist Energy at 1st, etc. Another thought is Domain spells are Divine, so technically, the Archivist can learn them as well.
allenchan 11-02-05, 06:28 PM	I haven't played with that yet, but from everything I hear, it will be highly DM-dependant as to whether there is any brokenness to that class. The Archivist has the potential to learn every divine spell in the game (if they spent all their gold on nothing but learning spells, that is). This means that, what with domains and all, they can get access to just about every good spell on any spell list anywhere, according to some. Essentially, it boils down to whether or not the DM lets them find or buy a scroll of every spell that they want- that's the only way they can get spells that are not on the base cleric list. Just to reiterate, this post is absolutely correct. The CO boards crap thier pants over this class, but they assume DMs are nonexistant for the sake of mechanical ease. If high-level adepts and paladins with a bunch of free time dont exist in your world, you should be fine.
MarkB 11-02-05, 07:16 PM	Thanks for the advice. Sounds like this class should be fine with a bit of sensible management.
clarkvalentine 11-02-05, 07:17 PM	Looks fine to me. My Dragonlance GM - whose opinion I trust in matters of balance - is thinking it would make a good class to model Librarians of Gilean.
feartheinvinceblehamster 11-02-05, 10:00 PM	some best forgotten Forgotten Realms 3.0 splat book... Isn't that how Pun-Pun was made?
Ongorth 11-02-05, 10:01 PM	The ability to daze or stun creatures as a move action with no save or spell resistance is extremely powerful. One round out of combat in D&D is huge, particularly since the archivist can still cast in the same round, its nots even trading actions (always advantageous in the traditional 4v1 battles), its better. While the archivist needs to invest skill ranks to use this, its almost a moot point since those skill points need to be invested anyway to use most of the classes unique features and int is the primary casting stat. While the final call is between your group, I do question the dread secret power and would certainly not find it unreasonable to give it a standard (10+1/2 level+attribute) will save to negate.
allenchan 11-02-05, 11:11 PM	Isn't that how Pun-Pun was made? No, Serpent Kingdoms is a 3.5 FR supplement.