Post/Author/DateTime	Post
daspawnofsatan 12-30-05, 09:31 PM	I recently DM'd a campain where the players kept getting upset when I pointed out flaws in their logic. Examples: They left someone unconcious and burried up to their neck in dirt. Then when they came back 4 days later, they were upset that the person was dead (and apparently attacked by some sort of animal) Then they went all over the place looking for a person that owned land, when one of the NPC's running around with them owned a temple and a house. And my personal favorite... "He's an orphan... if I DON'T kill him, he will just grow up to live a life of teasing from the other kids. Just let me coup de gras him when he's asleep!" and yes, that was said by a chaotic-good fighter. Ouch. I'm losing faith in PC's. Are they all this dense? :mad:
potlessrainbows 12-30-05, 09:34 PM	after reading some of the things on these message boards im beginning to think most player probably are sadly enough :raincloud
Lord Ian Stark 12-30-05, 09:36 PM	Ouch. I'm losing faith in PC's. Are they all this dense? :mad: All PC's = No Your PC's = Evidently Perhaps if you play with more mature players you could get more... wait for it... mature gaming?
Ilmryn 12-30-05, 09:38 PM	It's not as bad as one of my games when a player asked after watching a Paladin be torn apart by a blackguard asked me "so is he evil of just emotional?" or a player told me that he had 12 levels in rogue and 5 in ranger after we reached level 6 and he's been playing dnd longer than me
potlessrainbows 12-30-05, 09:39 PM	:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Lyinginbedmon 12-30-05, 09:41 PM	It is unfair to classify an entire segment of people, such as PCs, or even site members, as idiots, morons, halfwits, ignorami, or just 'clueless' people. That is a stereotype, and they are never entirely accurate. Perhaps you should merely talk to you players about this?
RabbitoutofaHat 12-30-05, 10:24 PM	Instead of dropping bread crumbs try dropping loaves of bread. When the person was buried up to his neck in dirt you could have made a predatory animal howl, perhaps not on que an but it would prompt them to think about dangerous wildlife. With the NPC he could have suggested sleeping on his estate instead of camping one night if they were close enough. Why was he keeping his mouth closed if he knew the players were after land? As for the orphan... They were totally right! According to a host of anime, rpgs and movies orphans grow up to become evil overlords or heros that overthrow evil overlords. My guess was that the players thought the kid might end up after them in a decades time. - seriously though, you might want to bring about reprocussions for crimes from the local authorities. Provided they left evidence of a crime, an orphans body for example. They'll be sweating bullets when they find out the town that pays tribute to a dragon does so also for him to enforce the peace. I'm guessing your players are fairly new to dnd or roping so try to be generous with information till they pick up things on their own.
celtredleg 12-30-05, 10:46 PM	Sometimes players are clueless because we DMs leave few clues. One of the best clues is to make them suffer the consequences of thier actions. Once they get the idea that it is not a video game, and actions cause reactions, then they often start thinking things through.
I_Strahd 12-30-05, 10:53 PM	i had a group in high school that did the same dumb stuff. and the solution that worked was let the other players take a hand at DMing. it might humble them. or maybe they need special ed DnD. where they wear hockey helmets and take the short bus to the game. :D
Dragonspirit 12-31-05, 03:45 AM	Heh... well, I think most players have lapses in judgement. My group still hasn't grown out of the "it has green skin kill it!" mentality. One guy plays every rogue (and actually most any character) he has with the personality of the stupid halfling from Order of the Stick and wants me to give him free reign to poison targets. He pouts that alignment is a part of the game and that I *will* enforce it. It would be one thing if he would reflect some definitive self imposed personality restrictions to define his character, but he basically just wants his cake and to eat it too. He wants to be arbitrary, an executioner on a whim, but the hero too. He's tactically smart, I just wish he's step up his roleplaying game. It's hard for most of my players to ever accept a tactical disadvantage or risk to do the right thing (with arguably two exceptions). And when I wasn't the DM in a somewhat recent adventure, I was actually the only one NOT advocating genocide of the entire kobold encampment (turns out the kobolds actually weren't evil contrary to the green skin theory!). Maybe it's part of the WoW effect, where every monster is just something to attack until it drops it's gold coins. :twitch:
misi 12-31-05, 07:07 AM	well, my group is the opposite. One of my players have played DnD for about 12 years, another one has DMed for about 10. The rest of them are new to the game, but highly intelligent. I have to work really hard to give them some decent challenges...
Gailbraithe 12-31-05, 07:38 AM	A few weeks ago I was running a session, and my PCs had just arrived in a major city on the tail of an accountant that had a rather large bounty on his head. So they go into town, do some Gather Information checks, and I role-play out this encounter with another rogue in a bar who is looking for the same guy. One of the PCs and the NPC converse, the PC learns that the NPCs already have the guy, they have a boat, and they were planning to take off at midnight. Once the NPC realizes the PCs are after his mark, he hightails it out of the bar. Now my PCs are flat-broke and spent every last dime getting to this city. Theyneed to catch this guy and get that reward money. So what do they do when the guy runs off? Sit around and chat. Goof around. Make some unrelated Gather Information checks (1d4+1 hours per check!). So my first thought was "Clearly, I didn't role-play that right, because they're reacting all wrong." So I tell my players "You do understand that the rogue you guys encountered has your target, right?" They all murmer agreement, yes they understand this. Then I ask "And you understand he just left to go warn his buddies you are here, right?" They look at me with shock. "What?' And I say "Yeah, as soon as that guy left, he went and found his buddies and they left back for Blade Bay. With your target." And one of my players says "But he said they were leaving at midnight, and it's only like 11 now, right?" And so I say "Well, yeah, but that was before he knew you were here planning to take his mark. Once you appeared, that accelerated their schedule." They all look confused and concerned. "So it's too late now?" "Well, yeah, kinda. But we'll go back in time, and this time you might want to...I dunno...follow him!?!" :banghead:
Herald of Jupiter 12-31-05, 09:08 AM	These situations occur when they think it will be like a PC RPG, where, when someone needs to be chased, the chased person waits at every corner of every street, just so the player can catch up with him... Just explain to them that there's a little thing called the 3rd Law of Newton, namely action equals reaction... for every action your players take, there will be a reaction, even if it is insignificant. The Laws of Newton may not apply to PC games, but they are to be used in D&D.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-31-05, 10:27 AM	Ouch. I'm losing faith in PC's. Are they all this dense? All your PCs maybe. The people I game with come up with some brilliant [stuff] on a fairly regular basis. I have to ask this because nobody else seems to have done it. How old are your players? How long have they been playing D&D? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess 13 to 16 and several weeks, in which case this sort of thing is probably to be expected. Either find a different group or wait a few years. Or make them watch all of Firefly so they can understand what planning is.
jagraham 12-31-05, 11:35 AM	Most complaints about immature players I see in these forums are linked to roleplaying in town and interacting with NPCs in ambiguous situations. My philosophy on that is keep the players out of there and in the dungeon killing stuff, places with numbers on the map. Any in-town stuff should be buying supplies, etc, no RP needed. That how I played when I was younger on the old 1st Ed stuff...and we still did some dumb stuff.
ressurrector 12-31-05, 05:52 PM	One of my PCs in a 1-shot I was doing in The Worlds Largest Dungeon section J, decided to go off to "kill more fleshies" after the rest of the group decided to stop for a rest. He walked down a trap-lined hall, confident in his 2 rings of elemental resistance (fire/lightning) took a miniscule amount of damage from about 5+ lightning bolts, and then got knocked into a river of lava and died by an effect trap. (gust of wind) The worst thing, is that the hallway didn't even lead anywhere except to where the same lava river had cut through it.
Talonz 01-01-06, 07:40 PM	Most complaints about immature players I see in these forums are linked to roleplaying in town and interacting with NPCs in ambiguous situations. My philosophy on that is keep the players out of there and in the dungeon killing stuff, places with numbers on the map. Any in-town stuff should be buying supplies, etc, no RP needed. So they never need to learn to roleplay or play in the 'grey areas'. Might as well plop them in front of the xbox then.
tsuyoshikentsu 01-01-06, 08:08 PM	Agreed. ... The really ironic thing is that we're all the ones that go out and defend gaming when derranged parents claim they're ruining kids' imaginations.
Heki_Danjo 01-01-06, 11:17 PM	Mine are quite the opposite. It has become quite the running joke with my long standing group of gaming friends when someone wants to try their hand at sitting behind the screen: No matter how careful your planning for each and every possible avenue of resolution, the players will find one that never crossed your mind.
spectralphoenix 01-02-06, 01:53 AM	1) Was there a reason they decided to bury this guy in the first place? It sounds a bit immature, but maybe it was just one of those plans that seemed to make sense at the time but had a gaping logic flaw or two. When the latter happens, you might want to toss them a hint or two. You're stuck if they insist on doing it, but there's a good chance they'll stop and think about it. 2) Things that seem obvious to a DM designing an adventure can be much less so to the PC's playing it. Again, drop a few more hints next time. 3)Sounds like an outbreak of Chaotic Stupid-ness. Not much you could have done, but keep sending guards and bounty hunters every time they do it and hope the Pavlov effect will take over.
Rauric 01-02-06, 04:54 AM	Explain what alignment is about. Tell them your ideas on how certain alignments should be played. If they do not act to their alignments change them. THis could take several game sessions. But explain how cerin alignments should act in your game.
WizardlyFriend 01-02-06, 12:44 PM	i think that good DMs actually make the best PCs. but we are stuck behind the DM chair, so... my players have done some pretty thick stuff as well.
Feriin 01-02-06, 01:12 PM	I recently DM'd a campain where the players kept getting upset when I pointed out flaws in their logic. Examples: They left someone unconcious and burried up to their neck in dirt. Then when they came back 4 days later, they were upset that the person was dead (and apparently attacked by some sort of animal) Then they went all over the place looking for a person that owned land, when one of the NPC's running around with them owned a temple and a house. And my personal favorite... "He's an orphan... if I DON'T kill him, he will just grow up to live a life of teasing from the other kids. Just let me coup de gras him when he's asleep!" and yes, that was said by a chaotic-good fighter. Ouch. I'm losing faith in PC's. Are they all this dense? :mad: Before I say your players are half-wits or you are a moron let me ask a few questions first.. Where did the players bury the poor helples sod in the dirt at? Out in the wilderness or on a farm or in a town? What was the reason for the PC's looking for land? Did they infact know that the NPC with them owned a temple and a horse ( you see owning a building and some livestock does not equate to owning land), did the NPC actually own land as well? As for the Orphan, well you got me on this one. Why did they even stumble accross an orphan in the first place?