are makeshift weapons better..? [Archive] - Wizards Community

are makeshift weapons better..? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pierow37
10-14-05, 05:55 PM i mean.. sure there is the -4 penalty for not being proficiant with it, but i guess it is exotic, just take the exotic weapon proficiany feat... adn there you go

i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin

i mean, that is much, much better than a dagger, and bottle are just about as cheap as an arrow would be, and you can throw bottles too

this is just one example... there are many, many more though
Super Guy
10-14-05, 06:15 PM d8 damage + d4 per round? Wow, you've got some damned fine bottles where you come from.

However, where I come from, a glass bottle is not more dangerous than a longsword. Or a dagger for that matter.

Exotic weapon proficiency is kinda cool... I once took it with a Bastard Sword. If you want to throw stuff, just take the Throw Anything feat (which is one of the few non-core feats we play with). Other than the weapons it lists in the book, however, there's not a whole lot else to use it with. Chairs, sure. But I'd rather hit someone with an axe than a chair.
pierow37
10-14-05, 06:20 PM yes... here we do have very, very fine bottles
primemover003
10-14-05, 06:30 PM No way... I wouldn't let a bottle do more than 1d6 tops. IMC we rule that if you roll max damage (6 on a d6) the item breaks and is useless. The Drunken Master rules that the item breaks if the DrM rolls a 1.
DaveReaves
10-14-05, 06:32 PM Bottles that do as much damage as a warhammer but are still delicate enough to shatter on impact into shards strong enough to pierce the skin? Yea, I want some of those bottles.

If you ever see yourself saying "Why would anyone ever choose "Stupid thing like a bottle" over a "real weapon like a warhammer?" then you probably have a problem on your hands. I can guarantee you its not the hammer.
ermedic
10-14-05, 06:34 PM i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin

Where did those stats come from? :rolleyes:
Arcen
10-14-05, 06:42 PM IF you look at the last page of Complete Warrior there are stats for improvised weapons. A bottle does 1d3 if it's already broken it does 1d4.
Ni!
10-14-05, 09:33 PM First off, unless I'm mistaken, the -4 comes from the fact that it is an improvised weapon and not properly balanced, ect.

Second, I recall reading somewhere that improvised weapons do as much as their regualar counterparts. So a broken bottle would do as much as a dagger, a chair leg as much as a small club, ect.
primemover003
10-14-05, 10:16 PM IF you look at the last page of Complete Warrior there are stats for improvised weapons. A bottle does 1d3 if it's already broken it does 1d4.
I knew they were somewhere!
Uthgar DarkHope
10-14-05, 10:20 PM Er em
PHB 3.5 Pg 113 bottem right hand corner.
Improvised Weapons : Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat --people fight with anything from broken bottles to chair legs to thrown mugs. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficent and takes a -4 on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon the DM should compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. For instance a table leg is similar to a club, while a broken bottle is similar to a dagger. An improvised weapon scores a threat (a possible critical hit) on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Therefore a bottle would have stats something like this

Bottle 1d4 Damage x2 Critical 10ft Range Piercing -4 to attack bonus

I might also rule that on a critical hit glass shards go into the creatures skin whom of which you are attacking dealing 1 damage every other round from slashing damage and bleeding.
feartheinvinceblehamster
10-14-05, 10:38 PM one of the few nonwizard products i use:

the munchkin players handbook. anyway, i use one feat from it:

Improvised weapon proficiency(general)
prerequisites: fighter level 6th,
benefit: you can kill anyone with anything. your shirt, a chair, a playing card. to you a playing card does damage as a shruiken, your shirt as a club. all weapons must have something related enough to them to do damage as it.
Normal: if you want to hurt someone, use a weapon
primemover003
10-14-05, 10:55 PM I might also rule that on a critical hit glass shards go into the creatures skin whom of which you are attacking dealing 1 damage every other round from slashing damage and bleeding.
You ever see anyone hit by a bottle??? Bottles are pretty thick, when they break (which isn't that often) they are bigger chunks that tend to fly around everywhere more than stick into anyone (especially if you break it over their melon).
ermedic
10-14-05, 11:12 PM You ever see anyone hit by a bottle??? Bottles are pretty thick, when they break (which isn't that often) they are bigger chunks that tend to fly around everywhere more than stick into anyone (especially if you break it over their melon).
I have to agree with that comment. In 17 years of emergency medicine, I've lost track of how many times I've heard the statement, "It sure isn't like they show it in the movies." Scalp wounds bleed tremendously but that comes from the initial breaking of the skin. The few small shards that do manage to lodge under the skin do not cause significant additional bleeding. Typically, small glass fragments get forced out of the wound by the healing skin over the following week or so.
Uthgar DarkHope
10-14-05, 11:34 PM I have to agree with that comment. In 17 years of emergency medicine, I've lost track of how many times I've heard the statement, "It sure isn't like they show it in the movies." Scalp wounds bleed tremendously but that comes from the initial breaking of the skin. The few small shards that do manage to lodge under the skin do not cause significant additional bleeding. Typically, small glass fragments get forced out of the wound by the healing skin over the following week or so.

Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconsoius in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the intial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical expeirence how long would it take for meduim sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended? I think the damage would stop accumulating after about 12 seconds but would impose a penalty to actions due to immense pain until removed. Kind of iffy but all the same. Also on another note by saying that the bottle would only break on a roll of a natural 20 I was demonstrating that a bottle is pretty damn tough, compared to the very breakable glass ones they use in movies. Esspacially considering that your not hitting wood or something of considerable hardness. But perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of footgear. Interesting thread altogether though.
ermedic
10-14-05, 11:50 PM Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconscious in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the initial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical experience how long would it take for medium sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended?
I think you missed my point. I was trying to minimize the amount of damage that glass shards would do. Small shards would not cause any further damage. The ONLY way that glass fragments would continue to cause damage and death would be if the wound got infected. As D&D has no rules for this (with few specific exceptions), it cannot be taken into account.

As for penalties due to pain...If getting sliced across your abdomen with a greatsword doesn't incur these penalties, neither should glass fragments.

perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of foot gear.
Alright, I might buy this one. I can see where this could work.
Slyde Shadowdart
10-15-05, 12:18 AM "It sure isn't like they show it in the movies."

The thing that always gets me is that the same guy that drops a beer onto a hard floor and marvels at "how strong the bottle is, since it didn't even break" can be the guy that three beers later is talking about "smashing bottles over people's heads, like in the movies."
Shaken, not Stunned
10-15-05, 12:26 AM i mean.. sure there is the -4 penalty for not being proficiant with it, but i guess it is exotic, just take the exotic weapon proficiany feat... adn there you go

i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin.

I think that is your problem.

Generally, if something you made up seems unbalanced, it is.
ermedic
10-15-05, 12:28 AM ...can be the guy that three beers later is talking about "smashing bottles over people's heads, like in the movies."
That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint:
Kragg Bonemeal
10-15-05, 02:13 AM That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint:

He didn't say that he dropped the first beer. In my experience, I do NOT start dropping beers until about... oh... 10 or 12. (Dropping a beer is alcohol abuse!) So three beers later... at 15... yeah... you start looking for stupid stuff to do. :)
Slyde Shadowdart
10-15-05, 03:11 AM That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint:

Funny, that's what they tell the cops too. :D
revnk
10-15-05, 03:01 PM Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconsoius in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the intial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical expeirence how long would it take for meduim sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended? I think the damage would stop accumulating after about 12 seconds but would impose a penalty to actions due to immense pain until removed. Kind of iffy but all the same. Also on another note by saying that the bottle would only break on a roll of a natural 20 I was demonstrating that a bottle is pretty damn tough, compared to the very breakable glass ones they use in movies. Esspacially considering that your not hitting wood or something of considerable hardness. But perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of footgear. Interesting thread altogether though.

I hesitate to write this, because I think "realism" has a limited place in a fantasy game, but....

In the meatworld I'm an assistant public defender, and believe me, if bottles did the kind of damage the OP was talking about, we'd have a lot more murder/manslaughter cases than misdemeanor assaults. The kinds of damage that you see coming out of real bar brawls usually look more garrish than they really are: a police photo will show a large amount of bruising and bleeding even though the receipient of that damage was quite possibly found wandering around and getting into a fight with someone else.

Keep in mind that someone breaking a bottle on someone's head in a TV show or movie is hitting his "opponent" with something that's been designed basically disintegrate on impact (so as not to really ruin an actor's day and good looks).

Go with ermedic's comments if you're looking for a "realistic" ruling. I wouldn't say it's impossible to kill someone with a bottle, but it's pretty hard. Then again, it is a fantasy game, and if you want more of a Hollywood feel to things, you're certainly welcome to say that a single blow from a bottle has the potential to knock a commoner down to 0 HP just like in an old Western.

But in the real world, the main way a bottle seriously injures someone is when the guy hit with the bottle pulls a knife or a gun out because he just got hit with a bottle....
revnk
10-15-05, 03:02 PM Funny, that's what they tell the cops too. :D

...and their lawyers.
Shaken, not Stunned
10-15-05, 05:01 PM ...In the real world, the main way a bottle seriously injures someone is when the guy hit with the bottle pulls a knife or a gun out because he just got hit with a bottle....

That borders on sig-worthy.
pierow37
10-15-05, 06:10 PM my favorite sig is "it takes a 120 DC slieght of hand check to steal your own pants without even relizing it"
CryoSilver
10-15-05, 09:45 PM I quite agree that the glass fragments lodged in the body of the victim (if there are any) won't cause continuing damage any more than the arrow lodged from the longbow will. The only way they would is if they were lit on fire or something like that; otherwise, they sort of disappear from existence.

I also think a bottle is perfectly fine doing 1d4 damage: more than a fist, less than a club. 1d3 slashing? I have a hard time accepting that; I'd make it 1d2. If a dagger, with it's close to 1 foot blade does 1d4, logically a smaller knife, like a modern fighting knife, with 8-9 inch blade will do 1d3. A bottle is even less dangerous than that, even with multiple sharp edges. 1d2 works for me: you can't disable a commoner with it in less than 2 hits, 2.6 on average, which is reasonable to me: I could get hit twice with a bottle without going down (judging from the times I've been hit with other stuff), but I'd certainly start feeling it at 3.
da beast
10-15-05, 11:04 PM If you get hit in the face with a pencil you lose about 5 points of charisma with no save. I got stabbed in the arm with a pencil (The stupid hole didn't even bleed) and it freaking scarred lol. My point is that makeshift wepons sometimes have strange effects like the bottle glass shatering. You might get splinters which would be a DC 10 concentration check to cast spells (Why are you trying to fry the poor drunkard commoners anyway?!) or, if your despret, a wool shirt might constrict when wet. Some weird stuff there but they're just examples.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pierow37 10-14-05, 05:55 PM	i mean.. sure there is the -4 penalty for not being proficiant with it, but i guess it is exotic, just take the exotic weapon proficiany feat... adn there you go i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin i mean, that is much, much better than a dagger, and bottle are just about as cheap as an arrow would be, and you can throw bottles too this is just one example... there are many, many more though
Super Guy 10-14-05, 06:15 PM	d8 damage + d4 per round? Wow, you've got some damned fine bottles where you come from. However, where I come from, a glass bottle is not more dangerous than a longsword. Or a dagger for that matter. Exotic weapon proficiency is kinda cool... I once took it with a Bastard Sword. If you want to throw stuff, just take the Throw Anything feat (which is one of the few non-core feats we play with). Other than the weapons it lists in the book, however, there's not a whole lot else to use it with. Chairs, sure. But I'd rather hit someone with an axe than a chair.
pierow37 10-14-05, 06:20 PM	yes... here we do have very, very fine bottles
primemover003 10-14-05, 06:30 PM	No way... I wouldn't let a bottle do more than 1d6 tops. IMC we rule that if you roll max damage (6 on a d6) the item breaks and is useless. The Drunken Master rules that the item breaks if the DrM rolls a 1.
DaveReaves 10-14-05, 06:32 PM	Bottles that do as much damage as a warhammer but are still delicate enough to shatter on impact into shards strong enough to pierce the skin? Yea, I want some of those bottles. If you ever see yourself saying "Why would anyone ever choose "Stupid thing like a bottle" over a "real weapon like a warhammer?" then you probably have a problem on your hands. I can guarantee you its not the hammer.
ermedic 10-14-05, 06:34 PM	i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin Where did those stats come from? :rolleyes:
Arcen 10-14-05, 06:42 PM	IF you look at the last page of Complete Warrior there are stats for improvised weapons. A bottle does 1d3 if it's already broken it does 1d4.
Ni! 10-14-05, 09:33 PM	First off, unless I'm mistaken, the -4 comes from the fact that it is an improvised weapon and not properly balanced, ect. Second, I recall reading somewhere that improvised weapons do as much as their regualar counterparts. So a broken bottle would do as much as a dagger, a chair leg as much as a small club, ect.
primemover003 10-14-05, 10:16 PM	IF you look at the last page of Complete Warrior there are stats for improvised weapons. A bottle does 1d3 if it's already broken it does 1d4. I knew they were somewhere!
Uthgar DarkHope 10-14-05, 10:20 PM	Er em PHB 3.5 Pg 113 bottem right hand corner. Improvised Weapons : Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat --people fight with anything from broken bottles to chair legs to thrown mugs. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficent and takes a -4 on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon the DM should compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. For instance a table leg is similar to a club, while a broken bottle is similar to a dagger. An improvised weapon scores a threat (a possible critical hit) on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. Therefore a bottle would have stats something like this Bottle 1d4 Damage x2 Critical 10ft Range Piercing -4 to attack bonus I might also rule that on a critical hit glass shards go into the creatures skin whom of which you are attacking dealing 1 damage every other round from slashing damage and bleeding.
feartheinvinceblehamster 10-14-05, 10:38 PM	one of the few nonwizard products i use: the munchkin players handbook. anyway, i use one feat from it: Improvised weapon proficiency(general) prerequisites: fighter level 6th, benefit: you can kill anyone with anything. your shirt, a chair, a playing card. to you a playing card does damage as a shruiken, your shirt as a club. all weapons must have something related enough to them to do damage as it. Normal: if you want to hurt someone, use a weapon
primemover003 10-14-05, 10:55 PM	I might also rule that on a critical hit glass shards go into the creatures skin whom of which you are attacking dealing 1 damage every other round from slashing damage and bleeding. You ever see anyone hit by a bottle??? Bottles are pretty thick, when they break (which isn't that often) they are bigger chunks that tend to fly around everywhere more than stick into anyone (especially if you break it over their melon).
ermedic 10-14-05, 11:12 PM	You ever see anyone hit by a bottle??? Bottles are pretty thick, when they break (which isn't that often) they are bigger chunks that tend to fly around everywhere more than stick into anyone (especially if you break it over their melon). I have to agree with that comment. In 17 years of emergency medicine, I've lost track of how many times I've heard the statement, "It sure isn't like they show it in the movies." Scalp wounds bleed tremendously but that comes from the initial breaking of the skin. The few small shards that do manage to lodge under the skin do not cause significant additional bleeding. Typically, small glass fragments get forced out of the wound by the healing skin over the following week or so.
Uthgar DarkHope 10-14-05, 11:34 PM	I have to agree with that comment. In 17 years of emergency medicine, I've lost track of how many times I've heard the statement, "It sure isn't like they show it in the movies." Scalp wounds bleed tremendously but that comes from the initial breaking of the skin. The few small shards that do manage to lodge under the skin do not cause significant additional bleeding. Typically, small glass fragments get forced out of the wound by the healing skin over the following week or so. Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconsoius in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the intial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical expeirence how long would it take for meduim sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended? I think the damage would stop accumulating after about 12 seconds but would impose a penalty to actions due to immense pain until removed. Kind of iffy but all the same. Also on another note by saying that the bottle would only break on a roll of a natural 20 I was demonstrating that a bottle is pretty damn tough, compared to the very breakable glass ones they use in movies. Esspacially considering that your not hitting wood or something of considerable hardness. But perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of footgear. Interesting thread altogether though.
ermedic 10-14-05, 11:50 PM	Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconscious in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the initial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical experience how long would it take for medium sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended? I think you missed my point. I was trying to minimize the amount of damage that glass shards would do. Small shards would not cause any further damage. The ONLY way that glass fragments would continue to cause damage and death would be if the wound got infected. As D&D has no rules for this (with few specific exceptions), it cannot be taken into account. As for penalties due to pain...If getting sliced across your abdomen with a greatsword doesn't incur these penalties, neither should glass fragments. perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of foot gear. Alright, I might buy this one. I can see where this could work.
Slyde Shadowdart 10-15-05, 12:18 AM	"It sure isn't like they show it in the movies." The thing that always gets me is that the same guy that drops a beer onto a hard floor and marvels at "how strong the bottle is, since it didn't even break" can be the guy that three beers later is talking about "smashing bottles over people's heads, like in the movies."
Shaken, not Stunned 10-15-05, 12:26 AM	i mean.. sure there is the -4 penalty for not being proficiant with it, but i guess it is exotic, just take the exotic weapon proficiany feat... adn there you go i mean, a glass bottle for instance i would say could do about 1d8 damage, and it would shatter upon impact leaving peciease of the bottle within the skin, dong about an extra 1d4 dmg until it is removed, which would take a move actoin to extract it from the skin. I think that is your problem. Generally, if something you made up seems unbalanced, it is.
ermedic 10-15-05, 12:28 AM	...can be the guy that three beers later is talking about "smashing bottles over people's heads, like in the movies." That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint:
Kragg Bonemeal 10-15-05, 02:13 AM	That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint: He didn't say that he dropped the first beer. In my experience, I do NOT start dropping beers until about... oh... 10 or 12. (Dropping a beer is alcohol abuse!) So three beers later... at 15... yeah... you start looking for stupid stuff to do. :)
Slyde Shadowdart 10-15-05, 03:11 AM	That's impossible because nobody ever has three beers. Virtually every time I've asked somebody how much they've had to drink, the invariable response is "two beers." Even those who can barely hold their heads up or open their eyes give the same response. ;) :pint: Funny, that's what they tell the cops too. :D
revnk 10-15-05, 03:01 PM	Yes but the average commoner has about 4 hit points. Is glass under the skin enough to make the average person go unconsoius in about 12 - 18 seconds? (Assuming that the intial impact of the bottle deals around 2 damage.) Would it kill the average person after about 72 seconds? With your medical expeirence how long would it take for meduim sized fragments of glass in someones flesh kill someone left unattended? I think the damage would stop accumulating after about 12 seconds but would impose a penalty to actions due to immense pain until removed. Kind of iffy but all the same. Also on another note by saying that the bottle would only break on a roll of a natural 20 I was demonstrating that a bottle is pretty damn tough, compared to the very breakable glass ones they use in movies. Esspacially considering that your not hitting wood or something of considerable hardness. But perhaps due to the glass on the ground it could be considered makeshift caltrops if you are lacking of footgear. Interesting thread altogether though. I hesitate to write this, because I think "realism" has a limited place in a fantasy game, but.... In the meatworld I'm an assistant public defender, and believe me, if bottles did the kind of damage the OP was talking about, we'd have a lot more murder/manslaughter cases than misdemeanor assaults. The kinds of damage that you see coming out of real bar brawls usually look more garrish than they really are: a police photo will show a large amount of bruising and bleeding even though the receipient of that damage was quite possibly found wandering around and getting into a fight with someone else. Keep in mind that someone breaking a bottle on someone's head in a TV show or movie is hitting his "opponent" with something that's been designed basically disintegrate on impact (so as not to really ruin an actor's day and good looks). Go with ermedic's comments if you're looking for a "realistic" ruling. I wouldn't say it's impossible to kill someone with a bottle, but it's pretty hard. Then again, it is a fantasy game, and if you want more of a Hollywood feel to things, you're certainly welcome to say that a single blow from a bottle has the potential to knock a commoner down to 0 HP just like in an old Western. But in the real world, the main way a bottle seriously injures someone is when the guy hit with the bottle pulls a knife or a gun out because he just got hit with a bottle....
revnk 10-15-05, 03:02 PM	Funny, that's what they tell the cops too. :D ...and their lawyers.
Shaken, not Stunned 10-15-05, 05:01 PM	...In the real world, the main way a bottle seriously injures someone is when the guy hit with the bottle pulls a knife or a gun out because he just got hit with a bottle.... That borders on sig-worthy.
pierow37 10-15-05, 06:10 PM	my favorite sig is "it takes a 120 DC slieght of hand check to steal your own pants without even relizing it"
CryoSilver 10-15-05, 09:45 PM	I quite agree that the glass fragments lodged in the body of the victim (if there are any) won't cause continuing damage any more than the arrow lodged from the longbow will. The only way they would is if they were lit on fire or something like that; otherwise, they sort of disappear from existence. I also think a bottle is perfectly fine doing 1d4 damage: more than a fist, less than a club. 1d3 slashing? I have a hard time accepting that; I'd make it 1d2. If a dagger, with it's close to 1 foot blade does 1d4, logically a smaller knife, like a modern fighting knife, with 8-9 inch blade will do 1d3. A bottle is even less dangerous than that, even with multiple sharp edges. 1d2 works for me: you can't disable a commoner with it in less than 2 hits, 2.6 on average, which is reasonable to me: I could get hit twice with a bottle without going down (judging from the times I've been hit with other stuff), but I'd certainly start feeling it at 3.
da beast 10-15-05, 11:04 PM	If you get hit in the face with a pencil you lose about 5 points of charisma with no save. I got stabbed in the arm with a pencil (The stupid hole didn't even bleed) and it freaking scarred lol. My point is that makeshift wepons sometimes have strange effects like the bottle glass shatering. You might get splinters which would be a DC 10 concentration check to cast spells (Why are you trying to fry the poor drunkard commoners anyway?!) or, if your despret, a wool shirt might constrict when wet. Some weird stuff there but they're just examples.