Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gregorypeck 03-14-08, 02:22 AM	I'm going to begin dm'ing a campaign soon, and I was wondering if I should use miniatures or not. One of the problems is that I don't have any minis currently, so I would have to start my collection from scratch. Which sounds like it could be a very expensive process. I was looking at the official d&d miniatures, but I don't want to buy packs with random characters inside. If my next encounter is going to feature orcs, I want to know I'll have some orc minis for the next session. Another problem that buying singular figures online can get very expensive. The iconic d&d monsters can be around $9-15 each -- since you are paying for the abilities of the unit and not just the sculpted mini. Otherwise I was considering buying pewter figures. However, I've been having trouble finding generic figures. And the Warhammer and LOTR figures are even more expensive than the official d&d miniatures! What does everyone think? Do minis significantly improve your game? Are they worth the initial start up cost to get a comprehensive set of miniatures?
LeeAlucard 03-14-08, 03:30 AM	(This is just my opinion, probably biased a bit because I've never used miniatures...) Miniatures are not necessary to have a fun, fullfilling game of D&D. They can be quite useful, but even the most awesome figurine of a beholder cannot be as terrifying as the beholder itself, and for the high cost, my players and I are just as happy to play with a throwaway paper battle grid and some pencils. Of course, this can also be problematic... Me: The cleric swings at you with his heavy mace. P1: Wait a sec... I thought the X's were kobold zombies! Me: No, the triangles are kobold zombies. The X's are goblins! P1: Oh, okay. So, did he hit me?
makaku 03-14-08, 06:59 AM	I find pics of the minis or graphics of some sort I need on line, then print out little stand up paper minis. Much cheaper. If you have a graphics program to manipulate them they're fairly easy to do and can print them to the correct scale. A friend of mine turned me on to the idea and they work out great!
mycroftb 03-14-08, 08:03 AM	In one of the games I play in, the DM has an extremely extensive (and presumably extremely expensive) set of miniatures and set building type thingies. It really does add to the enjoyment of the game when I can see my character in an actual dungeon environment, with the rough hewn walls and floor and pools of stagnant water, and hear him say "And as you turn around the corner, you see, THIS" and pulls out a hand-painted minotaur figure, or some monster that I'm not familiar with. His attention to detail is very great, so I get to be much more immersed in the world because of it. The other games I play/run, I've got an irregular chessex mat and play with poker chips, coins, and glass beads to supplement my small collection of commons from the official miniatures line. We manage to have fun anyway.
gullas 03-14-08, 10:10 AM	Minatures are really usefull in larger and complicating combat's but smaller ones do not neciserely need minis.
runestar 03-14-08, 10:16 AM	I found one inadvertent advantage of using flat cardboard discs (with appropriate pictures pasted on them) over miniatures. Makes searching for the best area to target an area effect spell much easier (since my party uses plastic transparency cutouts to denote the affected area). :P
Jaamus 03-14-08, 10:25 AM	this guys has em pretty cheap $.59 for some of em... http://gamerocket.net/?gclid=CMqxvO_mjJICFR0yFQodR1ZjDQ
MrWildman 03-14-08, 10:29 AM	Do minis significantly improve your game? Are they worth the initial start up cost to get a comprehensive set of miniatures? Back in the '80s my collection of minis numbered in the thousands, from lovingly-painted "beauty" figs saved for important roles (iconic NPCs, BBEGs) to handfuls of the same cartoony figure (Orcs Of The Red Eye, anyone?). Collected (accumulated like a coral reef,actually) over a span of many years, I probably only got around to painting half of them. Sadly, they're all gone now; where, I do not know. :weep: Nowadays, I use what I can. No-one in my group has much disposable income, so every mini is purchased for a definite purpose. At the same time, anything (again -anything!) can be a figure on the battleboard! *cue the children's music* I've used bottle-caps (and bottles), spare d6's (you can never have too many d6's), coins (pennies are mooks, quarters have class levels), cigarettes and lighters (take it from a smoker, kids, don't start!), salt and pepper shakers (Exterminate! Exterminate!). When I need an NPC, I need him now! *dances little jig* Be creative. Food is fun. And you can eat your kills, making XP a visceral experience indeed. I've used Doritos as Dire Bats (see, 'cuz the wingspan...oh, never mind) and Gummi Bears as Goblinoids (it's neat when a player targets Bugbears because the Hobgoblins are sour). It sounds all jarring and distracting, I know. But since my battlemats are 8 1/2-11" graph paper colored with Crayolas and taped together, well...one could say it follows a certain "theme", perhaps. Your mileage may, of course, vary. *doffs hat and bows* Peace.
Orenmir 03-14-08, 11:00 AM	Do a search in these forums for "Miniatures" or "Minis." You'll find a ton of discussions on the subject. From what I've read of them, most people agree that since v3.0 minis and grids are almost completely necessary, especially for larger battles. You can DM without them, but it is more difficult and not suggested for a new DM. The experienced DMs that don't use them argue that their exclusion inspires more imagination and immersion. Those same DMs usually get ridiculed with unproven claims for not being able to apply many of the game mechanics like movement, line of sight, area of effect (etc.) properly. Personally, I very much enjoyed playing without minis back in v2.0, However, I can't imagine being able to do it in 3.0+. There are too many rules, feats, abilties, and spells that rely on precise location of combatants and terrain. Without minis and grids to make a physical representation of the above, a DM and the players can find themselves in a big cluster****.
iserith 03-14-08, 11:04 AM	I've used minitatures since AD&D. I find them invaluable for getting the players to understand the combat better. 3.5 made it more mechanical and strategic. We use a number of metal miniatures collected over the years as well as the new plastic ones you can buy from Wizards. We don't really care if they match up to the creature since we rarely use iconic monsters in our campaigns. As long as the space it takes up is right, roll initiative!
Minesril 03-14-08, 11:46 AM	I don't personally like them. They take away the imagination you have for yourself and anyway, they're fiddly. they fall over. We play in a classroom so we use a blackboard to draw a grid. So much easier.
MrWildman 03-14-08, 12:03 PM	Do a search in these forums for "Miniatures" or "Minis." You'll find a ton of discussions on the subject. QTF. More discussions than you can shake a Rod Of Seven Parts at. It's kinda like those little plastic Army Men(tm) we played with as kids (well, I did, anyway). You had yer El Cheapo, hundred for a dollar green guys with no faces and wobbly bases. Then you had the guys with actual, discernible features and realistic cloth-folds, they often came packaged with vehicles (jeeps! tanks! field artillery!). And finally you had a precious few well-sculpted works of art, often modeled on a historical figure. (BTW, plastic Army Men(tm) work just fine on a 1" grid.) Everyone had lots of cheapies, no-one cared if one got lost, or a handful got somehow melted into a homogeneous blackened mass :D ; they were, almost quite literally, a dime a dozen. They were used to invade the driveway or climb the woodpile. The good figures were kept indoors, away from the dangers of the neighborhood. "I've lost two Pattons and a Wellington already! Lord Nelson chooses to remain inside." What all this rambling means is: Minis are great fun, and there is some truly beautiful work being done out there. The collecting can become as satisfying as the tactical possibilities. But pieces of paper, whether purchased counters with full-color graphics or a ragged square of graph paper with "weerwolf" scrawled on it, are equally capable of showing who's where and who needs the wolfbane most. Peace.
MacrossSD 03-14-08, 02:09 PM	Otherwise I was considering buying pewter figures. However, I've been having trouble finding generic figures. And the Warhammer and LOTR figures are even more expensive than the official d&d miniatures! A good one to look at is Reaper. They have a good selection of fantasyesque figurines at reasonable prices -- and they're usually found at one's FLGS. If you can track down the old Ral Partha minies (some shops [like the War House in Long Beach, CA] have an old mini dungeon where OOP miniatures fron a variety of different manufacturers can be found at either clearance or premium prices depending on the rarity) those ones are pretty good, particularly for their warriors. I'd only get the Warhammer minis for the Bretonian knights (who have that whole High-Fantasy-Renaissance-Faire feel that I enjoy as opposed to the more bizarre fantasy stuff of late). BTW, even though you didn't ask: If you ever want to do a WW2-themed advenure, Tamiya Models has started selling 1/48 figurines meant for model kit dioramas that are just the right size to use in D&D/D20 Modern. You can find them in any hobby shop worth its salt (they're in the black boxes, not the white boxes used for Tamiya's 1/35th offerings) What does everyone think? Do minis significantly improve your game? Are they worth the initial start up cost to get a comprehensive set of miniatures? Sometimes it helps for the players to see where they are. But I will admit it can become a little bit of a PITA when invisibility and other "fog of war" effects are involved ("I hit the orc in front of me." "You can't see him." "Yeah I can, he's right in front of me." "YOU'RE IN #$%^ING DARKNESS!!!" "But the mini...")
Wheldrake 03-14-08, 03:12 PM	There are dozens of high-quality miniatures manufacturers, and many professional painting services as well. If you have loads of cash and not much time, painting services are for you. One of the absolute best places to start lookin g for miniatures online is The Miniatures Page at: http://theminiaturespage.com/ I would highly recommend lmanufacturers like: Megaminis http://stores.ebay.com/megaminiatures or Foundry http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/ But there are many, many, many others. As far as the general question of whether miniatures are *useful* for games, I would say a big YES!!! Sure, they aren't essential. You can use pennies, dice, or counters from some boardgame, or just draw it out on scratchpads. But IMHO miniatures really enhance a gaming session, if they are well-painted, if they are close to each other in scale, and especially if you have colorful terrain tiles or, even better, some sort of 3d terrain. Cheers, --- Wheldrake
UAMDB 03-14-08, 03:20 PM	Are they useful? Yes Are they required? No I try to use them when I can. I dont worry about having the exact mini either. I will also use beads as well. I do use a battle mat and overhead pins to draw out. If you get a battle mat do not use dry erase markers. They can stain the mat. I have found that using mini's prevents issues like, How come I can't flank him. Or why did I provoke and AoO. We also play with out them. Depends on how lazy we are at the time.
RPJesus 03-14-08, 03:21 PM	Mini's are sexy. I for one don't see the need for specific minis. If you have orcs, great. If not, the random figures work just as well.
Revil 03-14-08, 03:41 PM	I have to agree with MacrossSD. My wife and I have recently begun painting miniatures and that is where we purchased our first set. It is a ton of fun painting, though beware, it is a time sink! My group uses miniatures a lot...a lot a lot. They are VERY helpful in determining things, though it can cause players to begin metagame thinking. What my group refers to as the Full Metagaming Circle (going just around the edge of the enemies threat range only to approach from behind to flank). But I digress... Yes, minis help. But as said before, they aren't required. Revil.
twad 03-14-08, 04:49 PM	I'm going to begin dm'ing a campaign soon, and I was wondering if I should use miniatures or not. One of the problems is that I don't have any minis currently, so I would have to start my collection from scratch. Which sounds like it could be a very expensive process. I was looking at the official d&d miniatures, but I don't want to buy packs with random characters inside. If my next encounter is going to feature orcs, I want to know I'll have some orc minis for the next session. Another problem that buying singular figures online can get very expensive. The iconic d&d monsters can be around $9-15 each -- since you are paying for the abilities of the unit and not just the sculpted mini. Otherwise I was considering buying pewter figures. However, I've been having trouble finding generic figures. And the Warhammer and LOTR figures are even more expensive than the official d&d miniatures! What does everyone think? Do minis significantly improve your game? Are they worth the initial start up cost to get a comprehensive set of miniatures? when we play, we usually use small objetcs like a odd-colored dice, a dollar, a polished pebble or anything weird like that to represent the PCs, to each his own. Then we use colored "bingo" plasic "disks" about a centimeter in diameter to represent the monsters. Paper, cardboard, roll of tape, random everyday objects to represent obstacles on the map. Its free, and effective. Cut paper and cardboard to represent specific objetcs easily. I personally dont like and im not using minis (of any kind) because of that "collectible/rarity/cost" thing to it just kills it in my opinion. -Each box has a random element to it .. never really know what you are going to get. -And its really expensive.. like 15-20$ a box, that cost little to produce. -Has artificial "rarity" aspect to it. So if you are looking for a specific mini, you might find it right now.. or after buying 10 boxes.. And warhammer is just as bad, but it lose the random in exchange for massive cost for an even cheaper quality product.
gregorypeck 03-14-08, 04:59 PM	I find pics of the minis or graphics of some sort I need on line, then print out little stand up paper minis. Much cheaper. If you have a graphics program to manipulate them they're fairly easy to do and can print them to the correct scale. A friend of mine turned me on to the idea and they work out great! So far I really like the idea of just printing out paper monsters. Thanks for the idea. this guys has em pretty cheap $.59 for some of em... http://gamerocket.net/?gclid=CMqxvO_mjJICFR0yFQodR1ZjDQ Also, I might go ahead and order a few minis for the PCs, since we'll be staring at them for a long time. ;) Thanks for all the suggestions everybody! Please keep giving me more info, it all really helps since I'm relatively new to DM'ing.
AntiDjinn 03-14-08, 07:52 PM	For large battles and fights in complex terrain they can be very useful. One of the DMs in my group has some dioramas for a tabletop wargame and they really help when the mage is on the second floor firing spells out a window, the archer is on the roof shooting at foes on the front porch, the monk, cleric, and fighter are on the ground engaging the enemy, etc. Who has line of sight to who? Are there enough fallen bodies to make a given space difficult to move through? Are you going to catch friendly targets if you center your fireball right there? All such questions are very easy to answer when you have mins and props to the right scale to simulate a multidimensional environment. For small fights without props (an empty room with no cover) just the opposite is true; you could have been done with the scene in less time than it takes for them to get their figures situated. So in general, here is what my group does: If the figures will make things move faster and resolve such issues as how many moves it will take your mage to get into position for his lightning bolt, then we use them. If not, then not. One thing to note: For some players getting to knock over or remove from the table the figure of the monster they have just killed seems to be a source of great enjoyment. Maybe seeing it laying on its side is more satisfying than simply hearing that it is dead.
runestar 03-14-08, 08:48 PM	And minis are a dead giveaway of your purpose in class. Graph paper is still excusable in a math class, but painted figurines...?:D
DM_Kelaos 03-14-08, 11:01 PM	Be creative. Food is fun. And you can eat your kills, making XP a visceral experience indeed. I've used Doritos as Dire Bats (see, 'cuz the wingspan...oh, never mind) and Gummi Bears as Goblinoids (it's neat when a player targets Bugbears because the Hobgoblins are sour). Gummi Bears for Minis, I love it!:D I currently use minis, but I can see buying a container of Gummi Bears to use as goblins, kobolds, etc.! I'm just starting with a new party (the players have had around one previous character each) so that'd make things fun. Great suggestion.
mycroftb 03-14-08, 11:21 PM	Be creative. Food is fun. And you can eat your kills, making XP a visceral experience indeed. I've used Doritos as Dire Bats (see, 'cuz the wingspan...oh, never mind) and Gummi Bears as Goblinoids (it's neat when a player targets Bugbears because the Hobgoblins are sour). A fine suggestion. The game I just started up, I collected a bunch of dollar store candy for use as monsters. Cheapo hard candy represents goblins, name brand hard candy is hobgoblins, white peppermints are skeletons, Hershey's kisses are zombies, tootsie rolls are orcs, mini Reese's cups are bugbears, a swiss cake roll was an ogre, and I've got snack-size pudding for the gelatinous cube. (Reminds me, I need to get a snack-size bag of m&ms for the rat swarm...) One advantage over gummi bears was it was all individually pre-wrapped, so I didn't get sticky foodstuffs on my battlemat.
RPJesus 03-15-08, 12:32 AM	Gummi Bears for Minis :D (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15288065&postcount=9)
CryoSilver 03-15-08, 12:51 AM	When I have to use minis, I like to use Lego guys.
stone_thecrows 03-15-08, 06:57 AM	I have a huge collection of D&D minis and always use them. However no matter how many you have there'll always be some monster that you want but don't yet have! (possibly because it hasn't been released yet) One other thing to point out here is that if you use a random chunk of Cheese (or whatever) to represent your monsters before they roll Knowledge checks you'll get no meta-gaming from players that "know" stuff their characters don't. I know that kinda negates the point of having the correct miniature but if your players start chucking Fire spells at a Roper that they have never seen or heard about you may start to wonder...
Ekkoe 03-15-08, 09:16 AM	It really does add to the enjoyment of the game when I can see my character in an actual dungeon environment, with the rough hewn walls and floor and pools of stagnant water, and hear him say "And as you turn around the corner, you see, THIS" and pulls out a hand-painted minotaur figure, or some monster that I'm not familiar with. With all due respect and with no offense meant, I disagree (now, was that not a bit too much appoligy for a simple disagreement?) The situation you describe might be hypothetically (you didn't say), but I find that a discription is far more relevant than the looks of the miniature. If your DM actually says "You see THIS" and shows you a little plastic doll, I find he's missing the concept of D&D: Immagination. When I first started playing D&D, we used lego figures that roughly represented our character. I found that, after a short while, I wanted these lego figures to represent my character more and more, and I wasn't satisfied when an eraser would represent a large sized creature: I went looking for my lego ceberus (still can't believe I bought that Harry Potter lego set, but I was young). I always found that the description is much more important, and that the battle grid is more of an indication. Hell, I even try to avoid using it unless it is completely necissary. This way you learn to communicate your views of the situation better, which, in turn, can be used to discribe non-combat situations. One might think it is fun to be able to place a few detailled figurines on a nice board then it is playing with a pencil drawn battle grid and a couple of dices. However, I find that if you start by valueing the looks of the board too much, you're not in your head enough and your immagination is restricted. Also, I find that they are extremely expensive and hard to get (is it really that hard to just make a set with a group of orcs, rather then the stupid, random booster system?) Summation: Avoid the use unless you're an experienced rich player and/or have think you need a board to visualize what you mean. Hope my opinion helps. Peter aka Ekkoe
aikimiller 03-15-08, 09:46 AM	I found that you can get minatures pretty cheap off of e-bay. They sell them individually, and you can just get the cheap ones.
stone_thecrows 03-15-08, 09:52 AM	I found that you can get minatures pretty cheap off of e-bay. They sell them individually, and you can just get the cheap ones. All of my Miniatures came from Ebay, most of which were reasonably priced. Some of the earlier minis can be expensive but WotC have started releasing newer versions (not rare) of some of the more expensive ones which should help.
Theron20 03-15-08, 07:29 PM	We love them.
Half_Dragon_Infernal 03-15-08, 08:00 PM	My theory: Get a bunch of medium, almost as many small, a handful of large, few huge, maybe 1 gargantuan or collosal. Don't really bother with tiny or smaller, they are too problematic and pieces of paper do just as well.
Caennen 03-15-08, 10:56 PM	My old DM used to use them when we started (been playing 5 years now) and after a while we started needing them less and less. Of course for large battle with a lot of PC's and NPC's we still use them so there is no confusion (we have a group of about 13-15 people on average) Also, we've used everything imaginable. Candy, coins, paper with names written on it folded small. We once used an empty Red UV Bottle of Vodka to represent a Venerable Red Dragon. If you need to use them, you don't need the elaborate, costly, figures. Just be imaginitive and it's still as fun.
Ariakus 03-16-08, 12:50 AM	I've been playing D&D for 25 years, and I've never used minis until about 2 years ago. This means, no, you don't need them, but... they certainly help when running combat. They beat free "tokens" by far, but are not "free" by any means. But you can get them fairly cheap online at Ebay. Myself? I can afford minis when I want them, but for most of my D&D life, I would not have been able to, especially as a DM. But as a player, if you buy one of the metal minis that best represents you character, paint them with loving care, and take them to the game...you will enjoy it more. But if you get killed...well now you have to roll up another character, and likely much different than your last making your mini useless other than for viewing... now you must choose, buy, and paint another one with the same loving care...except this time... you're gonna make this character live because you don't want to have to buy another one :D But they certainly add flavor and a certain "ease of understanding" with the visual concept. And once you begin DMing, you will acquire more through time, plastics and metal's...and you will enjoy showing off new ones...especially when you bring out that giant Dragon you spent the last 6 months painting and set her down on the battle mat with pride, and you gaze on in enjoyment as your players whimper! I love that :D Or just the pride in the simple orc warrior you spent the week or weekend painting, and hearing the comments on your work. You get good advise from pro's that way too BTW, when they see something they could've done better.... they usually have no problem teaching you how to do it, as it is something they love as well, and everyone likes to talk or teach about something they love :)
Roac 03-16-08, 12:51 AM	My group uses miniatures a lot...a lot a lot. They are VERY helpful in determining things, though it can cause players to begin metagame thinking. What my group refers to as the Full Metagaming Circle (going just around the edge of the enemies threat range only to approach from behind to flank). Revil. It is and isn't metagame thinking. I Larp (Amtgard anyone?) and thats a commonly used strategy while fighting and often does suprise the enemy. But to the topic at hand. I personally have just started using minis for the first time in an arena campaign i've been DMing as of late and while I do see alot more tactical movement and manuevering I have noticed a lack in imagination and I don't even have enough figures to use them to represent appropriate monsters. My personal favorite method so far is to use a white erase board and draw a scale on the side to get a feel for movement. PCs are one color, enemies another, and the landscape is usually black. I just draw circles and write initials in them so they know whos who and use a key for enemies. Its also a decent way of tracking initiative if you have a big enough whiteboard to write the order and put a star next to the active name. The best part is its cheap, effective, and still allows room for immagination and tactics in one cohesive unit, (and saves me work on handpainting a cardboard peice with squares drawn on it). But to each his own, I hope this has helped. Good luck!
Optimator 03-16-08, 01:01 AM	I'm going to begin dm'ing a campaign soon, and I was wondering if I should use miniatures or not. One of the problems is that I don't have any minis currently, so I would have to start my collection from scratch. Which sounds like it could be a very expensive process. I was looking at the official d&d miniatures, but I don't want to buy packs with random characters inside. If my next encounter is going to feature orcs, I want to know I'll have some orc minis for the next session. Another problem that buying singular figures online can get very expensive. The iconic d&d monsters can be around $9-15 each -- since you are paying for the abilities of the unit and not just the sculpted mini. Otherwise I was considering buying pewter figures. However, I've been having trouble finding generic figures. And the Warhammer and LOTR figures are even more expensive than the official d&d miniatures! What does everyone think? Do minis significantly improve your game? Are they worth the initial start up cost to get a comprehensive set of miniatures? It is totally worth it to have miniatures and a battle mat (the roll-up dry-erase kind). It is probably not worth it to buy a bunch of the same miniature for accuracy. The battle mat along with the correct-sized miniatures for an encounter will make your life and game much better, IMHO. I like your name by the way.
gregorypeck 03-16-08, 02:20 AM	I like your name by the way. haha, thanks
Half_Dragon_Infernal 03-16-08, 03:36 PM	What type of battlemat do you use? If it has a hexagonal grid on the back, and the square side is 22x25, I have one exactly the same.
WinglessDemon 03-16-08, 04:30 PM	personally, they are great but not needed, normaly we just used a white board and if we had them they just thrown on top, if not x and marks worked just as well. Even a mix of the two works.
gregorypeck 03-16-08, 05:37 PM	What type of battlemat do you use? If it has a hexagonal grid on the back, and the square side is 22x25, I have one exactly the same. Currently I don't have any minis or a battlemat. Except for a couple one shot adventures, this is my first time dm'ing a real campaign, so I'd need to get all the minis, battlemats, etc.
CastTiltowait 03-17-08, 12:07 AM	I've been using miniatures after many years of not, and like noted before, it really helps firm up the tactical situation in a combat. That being said, I've no interest in making other people rich, so I've been stingy about spending my money. Dice are fine for minis, etc., as people have said. Doing paper minis is a good way to do an unusual mini that you don't have anything suitable. I recommend using cardstock paper (it's the stuff they make business cards and greeting cards from). You can see an example of a paper mini at http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj160/gloriar_bucket/Cave%20Works/DSCN0836.jpg http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj160/gloriar_bucket/Cave%20Works/DSCN0836.jpg By the way, the background scenery is something called Caveworks by WorldworksgamesHere (http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/) If you want a very inexpensive way to do some amazing 3D terrain, they're a good group to look at. They're a small company of talented artists that sell pdf files that you can print out to your heart's content to build as much scenery as you want. If you want to spend money on mini's, one of the best ebay stores I found is Auggie's (http://stores.ebay.com/Auggies-Games-n-Movies) His prices are really good, but what's best is the fact that he's got a flat shipping charge of $3.99, no matter how many mini's you buy.
Optimator 03-17-08, 12:11 AM	What type of battlemat do you use? If it has a hexagonal grid on the back, and the square side is 22x25, I have one exactly the same. The one for our group has the hexes on the back, but it is much bigger than 22x25.
RPJesus 03-17-08, 01:30 AM	I've always wanted to get a collossal red dragon mini just to **** with my players. "You enter the cave" *Thud* "..." "You see a massive statue" :D
annoyinglizardvoice 03-17-08, 07:58 PM	I've always prefered to use miniatures. In my roleplay soc, I often end up dming for large groups and/or newbies, so it really helps to keep track of whats going on. As many of my players don't own many mins, putting a big, impressive min that they've never seen before on the table always gets their attension. At home, I prefer to use carefully converted and painted mins, but if I'm out anywhere I'll take pre-painted plastic mins (or student-proofs as they've become known) like the d+d mins and horrorclix.
Stickboy2323 03-18-08, 04:59 AM	I think that the use of minis should be based on your real life environment. If you have a grid map to use then by all means you should use minis or at the very least some form of PC and NPC representation. If you do not have access to a grid then you're probably better off using your imagination. I can say from experience that my play and the play of my group has been greatly enhanced by the use of a grid and minis. Not only do we all understand the combat rules better but combat sections of adventures have sped up greatly since we started using mins. Yes, it is kind of expensive to start a collection, but it is worth it.
DrWorm 03-18-08, 01:10 PM	I used minis when I first started playing 3.x mostly becuase so many of the combat rules are based on them. My players embraced them...too well. Combat took much longer with everyone strategizing to the extreme, and off the wall maneuvers turned in to long rules discussions. Though my players were having fun they were dismayed at how slow the progress was in the game, so we decided to go back to an abstract game. Combat is just better for us in the abstract as we can visualize the combat in a cinematic style, and it is more adaptable. You have to have more trust in DM rulings sometimes, but as long as they are consistant I have never had a problem with this.