| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| blah_blankerson12-21-06, 09:08 PM | just wondering:Are there black people in D&D???? And if so,what would be the politically correct thing to call them...not african/african american as these places don't exist. |
| theotherdraxen12-21-06, 09:11 PM | No rule says there isn't, so it's up to the DM. In my games, yes. I'd use the term black people, or possibly "Southern Duskan, Members of cultural group X, ect." For the most part in D&D, however, humans don't have time to discrimite based on skin color: they're too busy wiht Elves, Dwarves and Trolls to bother themselves with trivial things like skin. |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 09:11 PM | "Black" is just fine. I call all my black friends black, and they don't care. African American is a stupid term anyways, since of my black friends, not a one is directly of African descent. It's sort of like calling all Asians Chinese; it's not even technically correct. And there are black humans in D&D if you decide there are. Race/skin tone has no effect on your stats, any more than gender, so why the heck not? I've had dark-skinned, camel-riding, scimitar wielding paladins before, so I'm down with a black wizard. But if you make his familiar a chicken, it would be necessary for you to be struck with the Folding Chair of Salvation. |
| PenderGrass12-21-06, 09:14 PM | just wondering:Are there black people in D&D???? And if so,what would be the politically correct thing to call them...not african/african american as these places don't exist. Officially speaking, drow elves - at the very least - are described as having dark skin. Many established/published campaigns have a variety of human races. :dragon: **** |
| angryman12-21-06, 09:17 PM | African American is a stupid term anyways, since of my black friends, not a one is directly of African descent. It's sort of like calling all Asians Chinese; it's not even technically correct. Wasn't it Malcolm X who coined that phrase? Just wondering. I kind of see where you're coming from, though. It's like calling me Celto-Anglo-Australian. Not wrong, just strange. I've had dark-skinned, camel-riding, scimitar wielding paladins before, so I'm down with a black wizard. I played a black wizard, he was really fun. Sometimes he'd be made fun of because of his race (he was a bald 6'7 black guy with 9 charisma, in a predominantly white society) so he'd do something hideous to them, like Mind Rape or something. No, he didn't like racists. |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 09:21 PM | Wasn't it Malcolm X who coined that phrase? Just wondering. I kind of see where you're coming from, though. It's like calling me Celto-Anglo-Australian. Not wrong, just strange. Maybe it was. I dunno. I just hate political correctness. It's the fundamentalism of the left, IMO. But calling some black people African American offends them; I find from experience that this is especially true of Jamaicans. Like I said, calling all blacks African American is just as ignorant and stupid as calling all Asians Chinese. I'm Asian, but I am not Chinese. |
| Mind Rogue12-21-06, 09:22 PM | Don't forget Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html), everyone's favorite fighter with an MBA (Master's of Battle Administration). |
| dmjacques12-21-06, 09:23 PM | But if you make his familiar a chicken, it would be necessary for you to be struck with the Folding Chair of Salvation. (hhehehe) mmmmm chicken:P |
| theotherdraxen12-21-06, 09:24 PM | Calling black people African Americans makes as much sense as calling white people European Americans. But why would race affect gameplay if there are gnomes around? |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 09:25 PM | Because humans are really good at hating everyone, regardless of WHY or HOW MUCH they're different. Look at Northern Ireland, or the Middle East. Heck, look at the Bloods and Crips. |
| theotherdraxen12-21-06, 09:27 PM | Heh, good point. Romans hated eachother based on which quarter of the city you lived in, so probably makes sense. |
| Roscoe_Greenbottle12-21-06, 09:28 PM | Don't forget Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html), everyone's favorite fighter with an MBA (Master's of Battle Administration). In the last three nights I started reading them and got to #340 |
| Sim_antix12-21-06, 09:29 PM | Calling black people African Americans makes as much sense as calling white people European Americans. But why would race affect gameplay if there are gnomes around? Exactly, there is no racism between Humans based on skin color because everyone has Gnomes to project their hatred onto. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 09:30 PM | Because humans are really good at hating everyone, regardless of WHY or HOW MUCH they're different. Look at Northern Ireland, or the Middle East. Heck, look at the Bloods and Crips. The thing is humans are the only real race from D&D that exist. It woulden't be too surprising if every race had the same thing within their groups. Like some weird height prejudice in Gnomes. Actualy stuff like this happens alot even in sub culture groups in Humans. Blacks have once upon a time discriminated against eachother based on darkness, the darker the worse. There was a "paper bag test," darker is one "class" of people, lighter another. There is also a similar thing with real life Dwarves. Some have the condition (most do) which causes distorted body porportions. Those who do not have that, who have normal body porportions but are still very small, have a diffrent nickname that escapes me and are VERY popular in the midget community. Seems we can't find enough to divide us nomatter what. There was even a study where a gradeschool teacher told all her students people with brown eyes were better than blue eyes, etc. Gave them diffrent recess times, one ate first, sat in front/back of the class, etc, and before long they were fighting, discriminating, and thinkig of "blueeyes" or "browneyes" as negative slurs. |
| theotherdraxen12-21-06, 09:32 PM | Exactly, there is no racism between Humans based on skin color because everyone has Gnomes to project their hatred onto. :rofl: Good point, HWSNBN. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 09:38 PM | Maybe it was. I dunno. I just hate political correctness. It's the fundamentalism of the left, IMO. But calling some black people African American offends them; I find from experience that this is especially true of Jamaicans. Like I said, calling all blacks African American is just as ignorant and stupid as calling all Asians Chinese. I'm Asian, but I am not Chinese. Totally. There are also ALOT of African countries which are dark-ish skinned, but not black or anything that we could think of as sterotypically "african"ish. Not to mention whites that have lived there, from europe, for generations. |
| Trokanis_Knightblade12-21-06, 09:45 PM | In a game where I am a player one of my groupmates is a Black man, we often joke about the fact that in most books and such based on DnD don't often mention skin color other then the tan of a sea faring man, the running gag is my companion is the only black "human" on Toril, in truth there are plenty. Just when it comes to Human culture in DnD skin color isn't as important as it might be in Elven culture. Human color doesn't mean a whole lot in DnD. Be careful though if you wanna play a wild elf with a tan. ;) |
| Ongorth12-21-06, 09:47 PM | All my characters have good NPC allies that are black. Seriously, though, I almost never see black characters in fantasy settings. And when you do see them, their "blackness" is almost always there defining character trait. Kinda lame. I remember I once played a character based on Donna Summer. Except she knew Kung Fu for some reason. Good times. I have some fond memories, though, of busting on wargamers for their "Cracker" Armies in their sci-fi wargames. Apparently, the blacks were killed off in their "Grim Future." |
| Disturbed112-21-06, 09:48 PM | I agree with the 'if your dm says so' comment. I was running a game one time, and this really happened. Me(dm): You see the table across the tavern. Sitting there is a white man, an elf, a halfling, and a black man. player: So, a drow? Me: ...No...a black MAN. player: wait, like African Americans are black? Like that? me:......yea, like that. WTF? |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 09:48 PM | It's probably because when you think "D&D" you think "Medieval Europe," which, while I'm sure it had blacks, didn't have many. Offhand, I can only think of Othello. |
| theotherdraxen12-21-06, 09:56 PM | I think, for the most part, race just doesn't get brought up. No one knew that my character was Hispanic, despite him having the last name of Iberas. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-21-06, 09:58 PM | I've been told I'm black. Apparently, my friends cling to the notion that black people like watermelons and chicken. I like watermelons and chicken. They say that when I have committed a crime (which I do regularly; no, that does not make me black either), I disappear into the day. Stupid friends. Making me a racial sterotype for a different race. Ruining my life. |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 09:58 PM | You kill my father; prepare to die.... |
| Mock2612-21-06, 09:59 PM | Just do what J.R.R. Tolkien did, call them Swarthy Men. From www.m-w.com swarthy Main Entry: swar·thy Pronunciation: 'swor-[th]E, -thE Function: adjective Inflected Form(s): swar·thi·er; -est Etymology: alteration of obsolete swarty, from swart : of a dark color, complexion, or cast - swar·thi·ness noun |
| vagabonvoid12-21-06, 10:07 PM | I have a black friend who took a swing at me because I called him african-american, turns out he's Irish... :surrender |
| Shatteredtower12-21-06, 10:24 PM | Offhand, I can only think of Othello.Moors' the pity then, I'm sure. One thing I did like about 1st Edition Greyhawk was that there was a description of the general features for each of the three major human "races" in the game: Suel, Oeridian, and Flanae. Their features made each of them distinct from the categories we tend to think of for Earth humans. The Realms may have done the same thing, but I only seem to recall such variety distinguised for elves. |
| Toloran12-21-06, 10:32 PM | Moors' the pity then, I'm sure. One thing I did like about 1st Edition Greyhawk was that there was a description of the general features for each of the three major human "races" in the game: Suel, Oeridian, and Flanae. Their features made each of them distinct from the categories we tend to think of for Earth humans. The Realms may have done the same thing, but I only seem to recall such variety distinguised for elves. Oww, the pun! It BURNS!. That said, a lot of campaign settings have at least one group of "blacks" (or whatever the setting feels like calling them). Maybe it was. I dunno. I just hate political correctness. It's the fundamentalism of the left, IMO. Political correctness has no political lean. It's all about who you think you'll offend (whether they'll be offended or not). Besides, 98% of the time there is no reason to refer person as one way or the other in normal conversation (unless you are specifically describing the way they look for some reason). |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 10:33 PM | Political correctness has no political lean. It's all about who you think you'll offend (whether they'll be offended or not). Besides, 98% of the time there is no reason to refer person as one way or the other in normal conversation (unless you are specifically describing the way they look for some reason). Well, see, I offend people all the time, but I figure it's ok, since I offend everyone equally. |
| Toloran12-21-06, 10:35 PM | Well, see, I offend people all the time, but I figure it's ok, since I offend everyone equally. Thats the ticket :) |
| FeceMan12-21-06, 10:36 PM | Yes. Drow are an integral part of elf fanboyism. |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 10:36 PM | Thats the ticket :)It helps to have a race card to play. |
| Always-Late12-21-06, 10:39 PM | What if the black guy's British? What then? Anyway, dark-skinned elves, dwarves, and gnomes are evil. I motion that we extend this to humans. |
| Mock2612-21-06, 10:40 PM | You could always call them Moops. :D My apologies to Jerry Seinfeld and the Bubble Boy! |
| Wopple12-21-06, 10:50 PM | I have a black friend who took a swing at me because I called him african-american, turns out he's Irish... :surrender He probably wasan't ****** when he threw the punch, after all, he IS Irish... |
| Lord Diggori12-21-06, 10:52 PM | Hepmolanders in Greyhawk Chultans in the Realms Svimohz in Kingdoms of Kalamar Half the humans in Al-Quadim Three-fourths the humans in Dark Sun I'm a Black player/DM (African-american is too many syllables), but I portray all my white characters fairly. Alastaire Finn, my Warlock in Ptolus, doesnt have an overfondness for potatoes nor a penchant for alcoholism or wife-beating. :D The character that has most realistically felt racial tension in a game is my Hobgoblin fighter/warblade, whom is casually called "a baby-eater" when not soaking crits and dealing 30 pts of slashing per strike for his PHB raced teammates. :cool: |
| Wopple12-21-06, 10:58 PM | What if the black guy's British? What then? Anyway, dark-skinned elves, dwarves, and gnomes are evil. I motion that we extend this to humans. Tolkien already did. And people say he wasan't a good catholic... |
| Mock2612-21-06, 11:02 PM | Tolkien's Swarthy Men were evil because they lived in the southern regions where the influence of Sauron was strong. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:03 PM | Tolkien's Swarthy Men were evil because they lived in the southern regions where the influence of Sauron was strong. Hmm. Dark skinned. From the south. Evil. Hmm.... |
| High Octane12-21-06, 11:07 PM | Answer: Ask your DM. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:07 PM | Answer: Ask your DM. What if I am my dm? |
| CryoSilver12-21-06, 11:07 PM | Hmm. Dark skinned. From the south. Evil. Hmm.... Peple further south tend to be dark skinned in general, if you start in the northern hemisphere. It's just because they get more sunlight. |
| FeceMan12-21-06, 11:08 PM | Middle-Earth symbolism for idiots: Light = good. Dark = evil. |
| Mock2612-21-06, 11:08 PM | Hmm. Dark skinned. From the south. Evil. Hmm.... I don't know if it was an intentional allusion to Africa, but in Middle Earth Morgoth created his fortress far in the north, so when the elves came back to Middle Earth to fight him they naturally stayed in the north so as to try and keep him contained within his fortress. While they were concentrating up there the minions of Morgoth were busy down in the south corrupting humans. Not all corrupted humans were of the swarthy races, but there were more of them in the regions where the infuence of Morgoth, and later Sauron, was strongest. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:10 PM | Take a joke nerds. Next you'll get mad at me for saying Lord of the Rings is fundamentally a religous, and catholic, work... |
| Mock2612-21-06, 11:12 PM | I got the joke, but I posted my last response just in case. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:14 PM | I got the joke, but I posted my last response just in case. I figured. Tolkien wasan't racist, and if he was, he would have expressed it much more cleverly lol. |
| aristotle9112-21-06, 11:14 PM | In my campaign, a large, important ethnic group is 'black'. One of the largest trade empires on the main continent belongs to their ethnic group. I don't really make skin color an issue of tension; i reserve that more for religion, race and nationality. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:17 PM | In my campaign, a large, important ethnic group is 'black'. One of the largest trade empires on the main continent belongs to their ethnic group. I don't really make skin color an issue of tension; i reserve that more for religion, race and nationality. A half-drow, half-durogar, would be THE MOST HATED thing ever. |
| angryman12-21-06, 11:20 PM | Peple further south tend to be dark skinned in general, if you start in the northern hemisphere. It's just because they get more sunlight. Ignorant Northern Hemispherians. Don't oppress me just because I'm from south of the equator! :) Pacific Islanders aren't black, they're Polynesian. So are Australian Aborigines. There aren't any racially white people traditionally from anywhere in the southern hemisphere because they all come from Europe or futher back, the Caucasus. (?) But I don't think South Africans are any darker/lighter than Moroccans... |
| Warlord_Draco12-21-06, 11:26 PM | you would call them black.... or whatever nationality they are... i dont know greyhawk,FR or Eberon have any black people.. but really its up to the DM.. |
| Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks12-21-06, 11:27 PM | What if I am my dm? Then do you want there to be? I personally go with most of the people from my coastal desert region as black, with more arab people in the inland desert. Where you decide to put them dosn't realy matter too much, but just make sure it makes some sence. Having a random black guy in the middle of an isolated white village with white parents dosn't make too much sence. If your world isn't fully globalized you'll probably want to figure out what regions they are most prevelent in. The steriotype is deasert/jungle simply because that is where most black people lived originally on earth, but there is nothing saying your arctic raiders who ride in longboats can't be black in your campiegn setting. |
| angryman12-21-06, 11:34 PM | In my homebrew world, I have "Eastern Europeans" in the northern city-states with places like Zavoria, "Germans" in the main, central kingdom with names like Mittelberg, "Arabs" in the subcontinent in the eastern plainlands, Elves in the west (who are communistic) and the Dominion of Greenwood, a Halfling area politically dominated by humans. The Dwarven folk are basically Russians. They live in the huge cold waste, they keep to themselves and they have names like Vladimir Stonebeard. It's thematically European, so I don't have any Asian or African races, nor do I allow monks or Asian weapons. |
| Daergal_the_Black12-21-06, 11:34 PM | Hmm. Dark skinned. From the south. Evil. Hmm.... To be fair to Tolkien it was the dark-skinned people from the South *and the people of the East* who were evil (the "Easterlings" were described in the Silmarillion as both sallow or swarthy depending on here specifically they originated). So he thought the asians were just as bad as the blacks. He described orcs as "sallow-skinned" (i.e. pale yellow in color) and looking like the "least lovely Mongol-types." All the good-guys, though--white. So the answer is, yes, you can have black people in your game, so long as they are depicted as evil. :D |
| PiedmonSama12-21-06, 11:36 PM | I just wanted to post in this before it's locked. And no, D&D is 100% set on-location in Coer D'lane, Idaho. Where even the hotel maids are white. |
| Wopple12-21-06, 11:40 PM | Then do you want there to be? I personally go with most of the people from my coastal desert region as black, with more arab people in the inland desert. Where you decide to put them dosn't realy matter too much, but just make sure it makes some sence. Having a random black guy in the middle of an isolated white village with white parents dosn't make too much sence. If your world isn't fully globalized you'll probably want to figure out what regions they are most prevelent in. The steriotype is deasert/jungle simply because that is where most black people lived originally on earth, but there is nothing saying your arctic raiders who ride in longboats can't be black in your campiegn setting. Right now they are in an island, so everyone is white because it's very non mixed in (for races as well, just alot of humans and centaurs which are indiginous. The only black is a half-celestial who was born used the unclean seed (or whatever it's called) spell from the book of erotic fantasy (taints next sex, meaning you WILL get pregnant and it WILL become an evil child) Figured an OBVIOUSLY unnatural skintone, given the parents, would kinda make it more dramatic |
| PiedmonSama12-21-06, 11:41 PM | African American is a stupid term anyways, since of my black friends, not a one is directly of African descent. It's sort of like calling all Asians Chinese; it's not even technically correct. Wasn't it Malcolm X who coined that phrase? Just wondering. I kind of see where you're coming from, though. It's like calling me Celto-Anglo-Australian. Not wrong, just strange. Sort of. You have to remember that in the 50's and early 60's, the whole "Back to Africa" thing was a serious movement with thousands of supporters. A lot of Blacks were just as much against integration as White conservatives, because they felt that they'd frankly never get a fair shake in White society. Therefore there was a popular movement to either build a sort of "African America" (make a totally independant, all-black nation within the continental U.S) or let every Black man move back to the African continent. Pan-Africanism was also a much stronger force at that time. I've had dark-skinned, camel-riding, scimitar wielding paladins before, so I'm down with a black wizard. I played a black wizard, he was really fun. Sometimes he'd be made fun of because of his race (he was a bald 6'7 black guy with 9 charisma, in a predominantly white society) so he'd do something hideous to them, like Mind Rape or something. No, he didn't like racists. TURN DE OTHER CHEEK, BROTHER, WE SHALL OVERCOME |
| Halidan12-21-06, 11:53 PM | The Realms may have done the same thing, but I only seem to recall such variety distinguised for elves. The Realms have several "black" skinned human cultures. The jungle-dwelling tribes of the Chult Penninsula and the people of Turmish are probably the two that have been detailed the most. |
| BlaineTog12-22-06, 12:14 AM | I figured. Tolkien wasan't racistYou know, everyone's a little bit racist... sometimes. |
| angryman12-22-06, 12:28 AM | PiedmonSama Sort of. You have to remember that in the 50's and early 60's, the whole "Back to Africa" thing was a serious movement with thousands of supporters. A lot of Blacks were just as much against integration as White conservatives, because they felt that they'd frankly never get a fair shake in White society. Therefore there was a popular movement to either build a sort of "African America" (make a totally independant, all-black nation within the continental U.S) or let every Black man move back to the African continent. Pan-Africanism was also a much stronger force at that time. Aah, ok. I don't know much about American history, except what comes from Hollywood, which is to say, inaccurate at best. TURN DE OTHER CHEEK, BROTHER, WE SHALL OVERCOME My character pretty much steamrolled anyone who offended him, regardless of race, creed or religion. He was an equal opportunity engine o' destruction. |
| Croix Ragnan12-22-06, 12:29 AM | You know, everyone's a little bit racist... sometimes. No. Just...no. (we all love Avenue Q) My group is playing Exalted rather than D&D, but we have a black guy in the party (it just never matters). |
| angryman12-22-06, 01:08 AM | You know, everyone's a little bit racist... sometimes. Broadly speaking, racists are poorly educated and ignorant. There's much more to it than that, but that's the basics of it. Of course, you can have highly educated, otherwise intelligent racists but they're the exception. |
| Mock2612-22-06, 01:17 AM | You know, everyone's a little bit racist... sometimes. Let's not go that route! Let's try to keep to the topic at hand, which is whether or not there are dark skinned people in D&D worlds and what they might be called. That being said, I suggest my two previously posted terms, Tolkien's Swarthy Men or Seinfeld's Moops. |
| pres_man12-22-06, 02:51 AM | In my own games the standard human looks something like ... oh, I don't know a pacific islander or an australian aboriginie, that is the closest approximation. Basically a standard human in my games has mixtures of all "racial" human groups. Now sometimes these combine in non-standard individuals (a red-haired blue eyed individual for example), and can come from parents that look more like the "standard" human. Basically since the standard human is a mixture of all races, a player can create any human description and claim it is just a chance of genes. For example, two fraternal twins could be one "white" and one "black" (there is actual RL evidence for this occuring) in my game, and there would not be anything unusual about it. Everybody can clearly identify a human, irregardless of the amount of pigmentation in the skin. |
| taski12-22-06, 03:43 AM | Yes, there are black people in D&D. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/hoh_gallery/91986.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97113.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/compmage_gallery/100484.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91246.jpg |
| Gladi12-22-06, 08:40 AM | There aren't any racially white people traditionally from anywhere in the southern hemisphere because they all come from Europe or futher back, the Caucasus. (?) Bright day 1) Central Asia (Indo-Europeans) 2) Modern Sahara (Semito-hamitic peoples) Are there slavic people in D&D? |
| Hakar_Kerarmor12-22-06, 08:45 AM | Middle-Earth symbolism for idiots: Light = good. Dark = evil. Saruman, for example, was a really swell guy. |
| Anaxander12-22-06, 09:02 AM | Player's Guide to Faerun: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pgtf_gallery/78825.jpg |
| angryman12-22-06, 09:48 AM | Bright day 1) Central Asia (Indo-Europeans) 2) Modern Sahara (Semito-hamitic peoples) Are there slavic people in D&D? 1) There's no race of Indo-Europeans as far as I can tell. It's a basis for language, isn't it? 2) I can't find any reference to these people...sorry if I'm wrong, but I still can't. Ooh, and in my world, the Dwarves are "Slavic". |
| Ocalus12-22-06, 10:22 AM | "Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because–what with trolls and dwarfs and so on–speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green." - Terry Pratchett Hmm, green...what D&D creature is traditionally green...hmm...it's on the tip of my tongue... |
| Millennium12-22-06, 10:24 AM | In 2e, they actually took a paragraph or two to explicitly state that humans come in all the varieties that exist on Earth. There was no mechanical advantage or disadvantage to any particular variety, however. I haven't seen such a paragraph in 3e (though I could have simply missed it), but it's easy enough to extrapolate. In the absence of any geographic or cultural frame of reference, there really is no other word to call a Black character than Black. It is certainly possible, however, to assign different ethnicities to different cultures or regions in your game world, and then create more 'correct' terms based on these assignments. |
| Jerks12-22-06, 10:24 AM | Sure, if you want them to be. What happens on the table tends to be a reflection of your own experiences so the more culturally diverse your gaming table is the more likely it is to have diversity in your RPG world. I think most DMs don't bother with going into race too much when you can choose to be a elf an orc or anything inbetween. |
| Anaxander12-22-06, 10:28 AM | 1) There's no race of Indo-Europeans as far as I can tell. It's a basis for language, isn't it? 2) I can't find any reference to these people...sorry if I'm wrong, but I still can't. Ooh, and in my world, the Dwarves are "Slavic". off-topic: the division of humans in different 'races' is not a scientific concept. genetically speaking there is only one human race. |
| Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks12-22-06, 10:28 AM | Are there slavic people in D&D? You know all the racial stuff is campiegn dependant. In my campiegn most people are crossbreeds. They still counts as the standard races, but most of them have a bit of orc, elf, halfling, or dwarf blood in them. My slavs tend to be Human-halfling-orcs. Somone's dominant blood mainely determine thier social class, with more orcs in the millitary and more halflings in the criminal underworld or roaming about as Gypsies. However most of the people in my campiegn are Highlander Orc-Human- Dwarves, with different clans having different majorities, and some mixing in bits of gnoll, goblin, elf, or fey. Saruman, for example, was a really swell guy. Well he was originally a bright and shiny guy.... |
| GoriceXII12-22-06, 10:52 AM | http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/imaro.htm This is a fantasy author who is very good and writes about a fantasy version of Africa. |
| High Octane12-22-06, 11:08 AM | What if I am my dm? Then answer yourself by asking yourself. Its your damn world. |
| Guroth the Forsaken12-22-06, 11:40 AM | Then answer yourself by asking yourself. Its your damn world. No kidding! As my daughter says: "A-durrrrr!" |
| Gladi12-22-06, 12:20 PM | 1) There's no race of Indo-Europeans as far as I can tell. It's a basis for language, isn't it? 2) I can't find any reference to these people...sorry if I'm wrong, but I still can't. Ooh, and in my world, the Dwarves are "Slavic". 1) So define me race. The ethnicities provide enough common thread and are diverse between themselves. 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Asiatic_languages Fide, sed cui fidas vide. And "slavic" is not alwazs what West thinks it means. |
| Man in the Funny Hat12-22-06, 12:26 PM | just wondering:Are there black people in D&D???? And if so,what would be the politically correct thing to call them...not african/african american as these places don't exist.Yes, as has been noted extensively there are black people in D&D. Racial divisions among humans in D&D campaign worlds are predominantly ignored, probably for the very reason that there are so many genuine HUMANOID racial divisions with elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, kobolds, ogres, yadda, yadda, yadda that to further make a notable point of emphasizing strictly human racial subdivisions based on skin color is overkill. Accordingly, black-skinned humans, if they are thought of as from a particular country or region are referred to by that name. If they're from Stygia, they're called Stygians. If they're from Chult, they're Chultans. And so on. If they don't hail from a certain area but there is some reason it's important to you to note the color of their skin then there's no reason not to refer to them as either black, or African American any more than there's a reason not to refer to "Asian" peoples in a setting even though there's no such place as "Asia". Use whatever term is comfortable for you to use at the table among your players and is sufficiently descriptive of their appearance to suit your needs. But DON'T overthink it. Problems from racism and bigotry derive not from too little emphasis on race, but too MUCH emphasis on race. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. If you believe and follow the creed suggested by that quote then names - and political correctness - are irrelevant. |
| someonelse81212-22-06, 12:58 PM | I DM in my game some people are light, some are dark, just as some people have dark hair or fair hair. its just a physical trait that has no bearing on the game, only the flavor. if you say your PC is black then he is black. any way its a moo point, you know like a cow's opinion, it doesnt matter, its "Moo". by the way, I just wanted to point out that the monk in the players handbook at least looks black, as does the astral deva, the drow & duergar. |
| Crust12-22-06, 01:34 PM | Don't forget about Theros Ironfeld, the blacksmith with the Silver Arm of Ergosh, who forged new dragonlances using the Hammer of Kharas. http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/jmichaelames/Therosironfield.jpg |
| Sphyre12-22-06, 03:19 PM | Calling black people African Americans makes as much sense as calling white people European Americans. Yeah, people don't call me part european american part native american, they call me White and Nerdy (http://www.myspace.com/weirdal) (scroll down to the music video: higher quality than youtube). Racism... It's ok against the perceived majority. |
| Sim_antix12-22-06, 07:47 PM | off-topic: the division of humans in different 'races' is not a scientific concept. genetically speaking there is only one human race. Technically speaking there is only one race of dogs, there are just a bunch of sub species that we call breeds, just like there are a bunch of sub species of humans, each with their own unique traits that distinguish them from the other sub species. |
| woodwalker12-22-06, 08:08 PM | in my campaign there are no black people, not because im racist, but its a frostfell environment that has been in existance for a thousand years. one would asume that if if their is a populated desert, they they would have dark skin due to exposure to the sun. simple as that. |
| CryoSilver12-22-06, 08:10 PM | There's a huge amount of sunlight in the frostfell. Haven't you heard of snow blindness? The sunlight reflects off the snow and burns your eyes. Also, the Inuit (or whatever they're called nowadays) tend to have darker, oliveish skin. |
| EscherEnigma12-22-06, 08:33 PM | Maybe I've been listening to the Avenue Q soundtrack too much lately, but I'd have to say that if you decide to include a variety of skin tones and what not in your world, to also include racial jokes. Maybe not PC, but I can't help but imagine that people would joke about it as much in a fantasy world as they do in the real world. Course, the thing is this: The D&D books probably don't specifically mention skin tone because it's not PC. How would you like it if the PHB gave racial mods based off skin color? Big chance to offend someone. Same with gender mods, so they don't. Anyway, after reading this thread I've decided that whenever I DM my world will be like that version of Cinderella that Disney did a while back, the one that used the Rogers & Hammerstein songs, but mixed up the races to holy hell. The Queen? Black. The king? White. Their son? asian. I'm not sure how it works, but I think you get my point. |
| shadowfox62812-22-06, 08:40 PM | Wow... In all honesty, I really don't get into sub-races of the races... Not sub-species. I mean, if one of the NPCs is a Drow, I'll say it's a Drow. But when it comes to humans, halflings, or any other race like that, I don't bother with things like skin color. For example, when I describe an NPC, I leave skin color out of it entirely. The thought that I should never crosses my mind. That, and I like to leave a description somewhat open to individual interpretation, so that everyone gets their own unique image, instead of one, set appearance that everyone gets (like characters from books that were made into movies). I will admit that, when skin color is left out, a caucasian usually appears in my mind (though my human NPC's are commonly generic hispanic looking, a throwback to my recent obsession with my "embracing of being hispanic," though I will admit that I'm barely hispanic...). I'm not sure about why that happens, and it's not a good or a bad thing. It's just what pops up in my head... It could possibly be conditioning from years of TV and such, though... I'm not sure. But, if a person wants to play a black human, than... Well, you're not asking if you should allow it to happen, you're really just asking what to call them... Call them whatever. Make a country where they're the majority, and do what was suggested earlier by Man in the Funny Hat. Though, unfortunately, it'll take a while for people to get over race... After race, we'll probibly move on to something else to seperate everyone. Before we seperated people by race, race never mattered. It was religion. Then, colonization started, and races became "necissary." When Imperialism came around (same thing as colonization, but it's given a different name because... Well, I remember that the Industrial Revolution had something to do with it...), race was used to justify it. Honestly, there was a time in America where you couldn't become a citizen unless you were "white." And, at the time of the Irish Immigration (potato famine, anyone?), the Irish were considered black. Yes, you heard me correctly. Now that my little rant is over, names of races really don't matter. If I had a choice, I'd just call all the citizens of Country A one name, and the citizens of Country B another name (though that'd probibly confuse me as much as my PCs, and D&D races would most likely be thrown in anyway...). |
| OneWinged4ngel12-22-06, 08:44 PM | Are there black people in D&D? This is entirely up to the DM, as D&D includes *WHATEVER YOU WANT.* You can seriously have absolutely anything you want in it. It's kinda part of the point. This is the one and only correct answer to the question presented in the topic name. African American is a stupid term anyways I agree. The terms such as "Mexican American" and "African American" serve to seperate and divide americans, and reinforces a subconscious racist notion of segregation, in addition to often being inaccurate. And this country is filled to the brim with racism, whether some choose to recognize that or not. Watch the news and listen to that one congressman swearing against muslims and saying we need to take action to prevent one from running for office, for fear that it may encourage more muslims to participate in our government. It's absolutely sickening, and just goes to show how hypocritical our government is just as the country's trying to convince people in the Middle East that Muslims and middle eastern people aren't treated badly or hated in the US or anything. It makes one rather cynical about our voting body and political system. ___ This aside, however, it comes down to one core issue: The OP is almost certainly a troll. Why are you all feeding it? |
| EscherEnigma12-22-06, 09:51 PM | ... Eh. I guess you could call the original poster a troll, but if they are, they aren't a very good one. I suppose some people just assume that brining up race will get angry posts? But I think that it IS a legitimate discussion, even if it does have such a simple answer of "whatever you want" And though it isn't part of the original question, since it has come up... I think everyones a little bit racist. Since I did mention it, I'll give the link to the "Everyone's a little bit racist" song from the musical Avenue Q. (http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/avenueq/everyonesalittlebitracist.htm) As the song says (and I agree) most people are a little bit racist, even if they know it's wrong and do their best to not let it impact important decisions. Some people, sadly, let it influence them anyway or don't recognize the fact that they DO have some racist behaviors. Not saying it's OK or good, just that it's best to recognize it, because it IS there whether you want to admit it or not. It's awful hard to fix a problem you won't admit to existing. |
| FeceMan12-22-06, 11:27 PM | Saruman, for example, was a really swell guy. Ah, but that was a guise and was revealed that he was Saruman of Many Colors. |
| pres_man12-23-06, 12:24 AM | If multiculturalism is thought of as "good" than that means that Sauron was much better than the supposive heroes. He had lots of different people working under him of various ethnic groups as well as different races of humanoids. On the off topic comment. Not everybody is racist, but everybody is prejudice about somethings. And this not necessarily bad, it can be a good survival instinct. |
| OneWinged4ngel12-23-06, 12:28 AM | ... Eh. I guess you could call the original poster a troll, but if they are, they aren't a very good one. I suppose some people just assume that brining up race will get angry posts? The OP is a troll because: 1) He has not posted further in this thread. 2) His name. 3) His join date. 4) His topic. 5) His total number of posts. 6) The way he writes in his posts. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a decent Wis score :P Stop feeding the trolls, people. |
| ladyeve12-23-06, 12:30 AM | just wondering:Are there black people in D&D???? And if so,what would be the politically correct thing to call them...not african/african american as these places don't exist. Are there white people in D&D? |
| Seerow12-23-06, 12:35 AM | In before the lock. |
| Always-Late12-23-06, 12:50 AM | Wasn't there this firestorm on the (im)mature boards about some person and her (his?) Asian elf? |
| Whisper_Swiftblade12-23-06, 12:52 AM | Does it realy ever come up? I ask this because I can honestly say I don't think any PC I have ever played was ever spesified as having one skin color or another; the color of their hair, their height, their build, their eye color, and even one PC's number of toes (don't ask) has come up, but never skin color. maybe that's just my party, but if you ask me I don't see why any people of any race wouldn't be playable in a campain. |
| angryman12-23-06, 01:03 AM | 1) So define me race. The ethnicities provide enough common thread and are diverse between themselves. 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Asiatic_languages Fide, sed cui fidas vide. And "slavic" is not alwazs what West thinks it means. *Sigh*. I meant ethnicity, not race. I still don't know about native white people in Africa. And that link is a link to the language, not the people. Again, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just can't find any evidence. |
| pres_man12-23-06, 01:04 AM | Hmm. :whatsthis 1) Keep those posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Otherwise, it is considered Trolling and is against the Code of Conduct. 2) If you think that someone has violated the Code of Conduct, report the thread and leave it at that. Do not call them out on it or note that you have reported the action. This in itself is considered Trolling which is against the Code of Conduct. |
| Crust12-23-06, 01:16 AM | If you ask me, in a D&D world, with orcs, goblins, kobolds, hobgoblins, lizardfolk, drow, bugbears, orges, trolls, githyanki, and countless other humanoid-types, I can't imagine humans wasting time being racist toward one another. Go ahead. Be racial toward orcs. They're usually chaotic evil. Humans? Too complicated. ;) |
| Mock2612-23-06, 01:39 AM | The OP is a troll because: 1) He has not posted further in this thread. 2) His name. 3) His join date. 4) His topic. 5) His total number of posts. 6) The way he writes in his posts. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a decent Wis score :P Stop feeding the trolls, people. What!? Did someone say troll? Well, looks like it is time to once more bring forth the anti-troll goat! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/Goat.jpg |
| EscherEnigma12-23-06, 01:58 AM | is... is... is that supposed to be a joke about not letting trolls get your goat? If so... bad pun! bad pun! if not... then I don't get it. |
| Sim_antix12-23-06, 03:39 AM | is... is... is that supposed to be a joke about not letting trolls get your goat? If so... bad pun! bad pun! if not... then I don't get it. Its a play on the story of the three billy goats gruff... |
| Always-Late12-23-06, 03:41 AM | Its a play on the story of the three billy goats gruff...Somebody needs to tell me that story. e that. |
| Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks12-23-06, 10:06 AM | Are there white people in D&D? No, only honkeys... |
| Jerks12-23-06, 10:12 AM | No, only honkeys... Wow, that's so wrong and so damned funny at the same time. Feels like I stepped into an episode of The Jeffersons. |
| High Octane12-23-06, 10:12 AM | No, only honkeys... And crackers! Don't forget crackers! |
| Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks12-23-06, 12:47 PM | Wow, that's so wrong and so damned funny at the same time. Feels like I stepped into an episode of The Jeffersons. Thanks, I have to enjoy the use of the only racial slur (well maby crackers too as High Octane pointed out too) that I can use when in the presence of halfway normal people...I'm trying to get the US Census to change Caucasian to Honky as a political move... |
| Gladi12-23-06, 01:14 PM | *Sigh*. I meant ethnicity, not race. I still don't know about native white people in Africa. And that link is a link to the language, not the people. Again, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just can't find any evidence. Link to language of mostly white people whose ethnic origin is Africa. Only Somalis and Ethiopeans are black/white mix. The rest, Berbers, Copts, Jews and Arabs are all white. |
| Mock2612-23-06, 01:29 PM | Somebody needs to tell me that story. e that. http://www.funpagesforkids.com/billy/ |