Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PenderGrass 11-21-03, 02:43 PM	Many of the gods in my campaign are asleep on the Cosmic Couch in front of the Planar TV with MXC showing 24/7..... When Commune or other divination/god spells are used - they (the Gods) are not all-knowing all-seeing and therefore can easily give "Unknown" answers to questions about certain subjects - and often do..... Do your Gods know all? Are they unstoppable? Tell me about your homeworld Gods.....
Fixxxer 11-21-03, 03:08 PM	My gods are not all-knowing, but they're close (at least, as far as their own protfolios are concerned). The gods don't know the future (though they can see short distances ahead and determine multiple possible outcomes). However, they're far above mortals. If a PC ever, ever, EVER thinks he's going to attack a god, I'm not only going to make it painful, I'm going to make it humiliatingly painful.
Star Warrior X 11-21-03, 03:28 PM	My campaign world has just finished a catastrophic war between some mortals and the gods, which the gods won, but barely, and most of the world lies in ruins, and so the gods are pretty weakened. They know everything that their worshippers know, and can look around in the areas where they have worshippers (IMC the gods get most of their power from prayer) to find out more, but where a particular god is unknown, his knowledge is lacking.
Farland 11-21-03, 04:21 PM	Logically speaking, it is impossible to have more than one omnipotent, omniscient being. The reason is two omnipotent beings wouldn't have power over each other and therefore wouldn't be omnipotent. Thus I submit to you that unless your world is genuinely monotheistic then you cannot have omnipotent, omniscient gods.
Deamon Kase 11-21-03, 04:33 PM	well I play in FR wher gods have demi, lesser, intermidiate or greater powers... and of course you got your over power. but i like to make gods preaty much intouchable... but i also make them very helpful and they often answer the calls of my PC and help them on their quest.
xect 11-21-03, 04:47 PM	They can't be all-powerfull. Because if they were, hextor and heironeous wouldnt co-exist. Neither would Corellon Larethian and Gruumsh. All-knowing? Possible but doubtfull.
Balseraph 11-21-03, 04:52 PM	IMC the gods are very nearly all-powerful, particularly within their own portfolios. The gods as presented in Deities and Demigods serve adequately as their avatars! :) I don't run a campaign where the gods can be harmed by mortals, so that's right out. It would be an interesting thing to try at some point though, so I have considered it. In general - the gods are GODS, and thus are as far removed from mortals as mortals are from single-cell life. Have a good one guys and gals! :cool:
Toshin 11-21-03, 04:57 PM	(Hijacks thread) MXC IS WICKED!!! Best one is when the man does a backflip and ends up landing on his head! (Back on thread) Gods are pretty much as they are in the FG deity book...
CrippleMrOnion 11-21-03, 05:07 PM	I handle my gods very loosely. When playing with a Cleric of Boccob, the Commune spell was referred to as "using the B-phone." Boccob would answer, but he was often annoyed as one is when called to answer surveys. He certainly knew a lot, but never about the future or anything that would be out of his power to know. Of course, he also answered in a towel once and often had Kord with an empty, faraway look in his eyes out front mowing his god-lawn. What can I say... the gods have a sense of humor; so should I.
Dasein 11-21-03, 05:19 PM	In my campaign, deities are not omniscient, but it certainly seems so concerning the affairs of mortals on the material plane. However, there are still many mysteries beyond the knoweldge of the deities (at least those worshipped, as there are greater deities that exist, but are totally removed from the affairs of mortals, and are thus not even known by mortals, let alone worshipped). As for power, on the home demiplane of a deitiy, all that exists does so as the direct result of the deity's will. Thus, it is impossible for a mortal to think of defeating a deity - the deity could simply will the mortal out of existence. dasein
Plunderer_of_the_planes 11-21-03, 05:25 PM	In a fantasy game they can't be all knowing. Especial if you are playing by FR canon. As to all powerful: I have a rule that only gods may kill gods. so no pc epic or otherwise will drop them. As was said before the dieties and demigods stats work for uber-avatars but a god vs pc encounter looks more like this: PC: I attack Odin Dm: odin laughs...you die. PC: :cry: DM :devil:
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-21-03, 06:11 PM	IMC, the Gods arevery powerful -- but in no way divine. They're essentially planeswalkers playing at god. On other planes in the multiverse, some are in tune enough with thier land to be nearly omnipotent, but off plane, thier fish out of water. There is a Creator Rcae, though they're 'off camera' that is makeing all the races and critters, but they don't care enoguh to be omnipotent.
Nifft 11-21-03, 06:19 PM	There are some questions that the Gods will not answer. If they refuse or lack knowlege is the subject of speculation. Gods do not visit Earth, nor do they live in the Planes, so you can't kill them by finding them and destroying some physical body. They do "invest" mortals with divine essence for brief periods of time -- that's an "Avatar". -- N
Ack'noth Necrom 11-21-03, 06:32 PM	Only the over-dieties in my world are all-seeing and all-knowing. But the overdieties of dremlon focus on either what is more good, evil, or nuetral. The greater down to demi gods handle specific portfolios because the overdieties just dont have to time to.
Ahnehnois 11-22-03, 08:36 AM	My gods are petty, pathetic thugs operating on stolen power. The basic idea is that the great diamond dragons created the universe for their own entertainment, and handed the maintenance of that little cycle of death thing (as well as what is now called divine power) to some lucky mortals. When the dragons got sick of their rather miserable creation, they decided to destroy it and start over again, but the gods trapped them on the Material Plane. Thus, my gods are not wise, benificent or all-knowing, regardless of their alignment. They mostly just enjoy lording over all the little mortals that worship them. Not exactly standard issue gods, but it works for me.
Northen_Spur 11-22-03, 09:27 AM	In Ravenloft,(even if Wotc droped Ravenloft into d20 I still make a link with the other game sets like 2ed) my gods are distant and Clerics of legitimate gods, almost feel their gods crying and pity. But with the unspoken pact the only thing the good can do is grant spells and lament if there priests take a fundamental shift. IN FR, I prefer my gods meditative, they stay in there domains and grant spell, hear their worship, try to encourage more worship, punish the heratics. They don't get to know all of the answers (still they know alot) but know the answers pertinant to their portfolio. So asking: worshiper to Helm: "Whats, the secret to silky smooth skin and eternal beauty?" Helm: "Do everyone a favor either ask Sune or put on a helmet to hide that ugly face of yours" as for knowing the future, my gods can't see in the future most of the times. They can see crossroads in time and faith. At certain times something of major will happen and the gods will know about sometime in advance. Example: A child of immence power is born, if he becomes evil the gods could see him bringing death and destruction. But the Child's fate insnt sealed. So the gods have the time to contact their priest (let's say a year in advance) and tell them to be looking for this child. The gods can see the futre beyong the crossroad of time.
wonderwheel 11-22-03, 09:57 AM	Excuse me for putting a little too much faith in my Gods, but every one of them are all-knowing and all-powerful. Of course, opposite all-powerful forces can exist albeit they will be locked in struggle forever, knowing that cannot win but fighting nonetheless. There are certain human traits I like to instill into my deities and persistance and stubborness is one of them. I have a couple of Gods that possess multiple aspects, sort of in the vein of multiple personalites. Example: My death/love goddess has a child aspect, Morrigan that gets really ****** when either of the two aspects get more attention than she does. She hates not being loved and lashes out at mortals or gods alike. I have a prophecy/fate God that I've been toying with that knows every possible future outcome, every minute possibility down to what events will be affected by a cup falling in a tavern and breaking. You know, the butterfly effect. His clerics are imbued with madness, however, as they increase in power because no mortal gains such insight without great sacrifice, making their visions and predictions sketchy and incomplete. I am tinkering with one god that judges all others. Not mortals, but the Gods themselves, since they can and probably will die someday. I like to envision him as embodiment of a horrific, supernaturally neutral entity. He is always around and he likes wandering mortal lands. So, he might be the only God completely and utterly all knowing, no questions asked. I also have embodiments of passions and emotions, but they aren't neccessarily gods, more like pieces of them that manifest sometimes. :behold:
Luminous Crayon 11-22-03, 11:50 AM	In a sense, my pantheon is much like the Greco-Roman pantheon of mythological fame: a great big deific soap-opera. Among the gods the entire range of human traits can be found, from honor to jealousy, from loathing to love. There are gods that are siblings, gods that are bitter foes, and even a few sets with drastically different outlooks that share the same portfolio. (For example, Betha the Merciful, NG god of Death and Healing, Exejhith the Enemy of Life, NE god of Death and War, and Kath the Inevitable, LN god of Death and Knowledge.) For the whole business to work properly, it's important that the gods not be absolutely all-knowing. There's too much fun treachery, drama, and doublecrossing that's prevented by a little omnicience. For similar reasons, the gods are all-powerful with respect to each one's individual pantheon, but not with respect to other gods. If they were, there would be considerably fewer, since mortal enemies within the pantheon would have killed each other off centuries ago. Long story short, any mortal who openly attacks is dead. Any mortal who schemes against a god directly is dead as soon as it comes to the particular god's attention (which is not automatic or immediate, but shouldn't take too long; bloody deities have eyes and ears all over the place.) Gods can't kill each other, but they can hurt each other. (Exejhith's still got a lame leg from a sword wound from Rayeb.) Any individual god is very hard to defeat or upset within her own portfolio., but enemy gods can do so with teamwork (hah!) or careful, meticulous planning. Mortals don't have a chance. As far as the gods' behavior among mortals goes, they treat the world with a lassiez-faire attitude, preferring to influence the mortal world indirectly through their clerics. (They discovered, through painful experience, that as soon as one deity gets his hands dirty in the material plane by directly influencing events, they all jump in, and their futile power-struggles merely extend to the material plane, rather than being confined to the realm of the gods. Even the vilest of the gods has something he values on the material plane.)
Farland 11-22-03, 12:43 PM	Of course, opposite all-powerful forces can exist albeit they will be locked in struggle forever, knowing that cannot win but fighting nonetheless. All powerful means they can do anything, including defeating any opponent. If there is an opponent they can't defeat than they ARE NOT all powerful. Think it through. I think you mean very powerful.
Farland 11-22-03, 12:43 PM	Of course, opposite all-powerful forces can exist albeit they will be locked in struggle forever, knowing that cannot win but fighting nonetheless. All powerful means they can do anything, including defeating any opponent. If there is an opponent they can't defeat than they ARE NOT all powerful. Think it through. I think you mean very powerful.
wonderwheel 11-22-03, 02:57 PM	Think Neo and Agent Smith in the Matrix. Both were all powerful there, it only ended because Neo chose to sacrifice himself and stop fighting. If he hadn't it would be an eternal stalemate. Translate to my pantheon------> Here Oh, by the way.. I like your world :behold:
Falkus 11-22-03, 03:47 PM	Thank you for spoiling a movie I haven't seen yet. The least you could bloody do is mark it in the title that there were going to be matrix spoilers.
Hierarch Leviticus 11-22-03, 04:33 PM	My gods are small and petty. Thirty to fifty character levels at most, and they were once mortal, and they act like it.
Roman 11-22-03, 04:34 PM	Farland, I believe even a single Omnipotent being is logically impossible (for example, can it limit itself?), so it is not so much of a stretch to ignore logic further and have two or more of them. BTW: I am not attacking any real world religion here - just because something is illogical to the limited human mind does not mean it cannot exist...
Hierarch Leviticus 11-22-03, 04:48 PM	Omnipotence is not possible as English defines it, period. This is a problem with English, not a problem with a divinity. And not nearly all divinities are of that scale of power, in real-world religion or in fantasy. In a game sense, this means you may do whatever you like, so long as you players can go with it, and you're cooking with gas.
Arkenian 11-22-03, 05:02 PM	In The Republic Plato discusses the logic of a single omniscent(saying that a deity is both omniscent and omnipotent are redundant, you can't be one without the other) deity (this is, some say, why Socrates got fed hemlock) But lets not get into that . . . Anyhow, I play in FR, and while the deities are extraordinarily powerful, and have ways and manners of knowing things that players don't have access to . . . they can keep secrets from eachother, and very often do so. Naturally, it follows that if deities can keep secrets from eachother, mortals can keep secrets from deities, too. Although the cost of that is . . . very high. Even when deities don't know a specific thing, if its within their portfolio they nearly always know at least something to point someone in the right direction (and often they're eager to do so . . . I play it that there is a very strict set of laws regarding how deities can or cannot interact on Prime, which mostly doesn't apply to mortals.) But sometimes, they simply don't care. If you ask the god of forests about the doings of a thieves' guild in a city in the middle of a desert, he'll ask you to stop bothering him with trivialities. The only inexpensive technique to hide things from deities is to use their near omniscence within their portfolio, and the accompanying complacence this brings, to hide something by staying without it. -Arkenian the Golden
MinusInnocence 11-22-03, 05:28 PM	The deities in my campaign world can't do anything they want, but they can do JUST ABOUT anything they want. Traditionally, they have very little to do with one another - the gods themselves are all of Neutral alignment, but each has three or more separate church hierarchies extolling the various virtues the god's portfolio possesses. For example: the god of magic, Mirtol, has a camp that thinks the world should rightfully belong to them, since anyone who can violate the laws of reality is above said reality. Mirtol also has a certain sect of followers who have set themselves up in direct opposition to the tyrants, because they feel magic brings great responsibility, and wisdom garnered through its use should be focused on helping people, rather than ruling over them. Mirtol, himself, couldn't possibly care less about any of this. He hears his name, he rewards people for devoting their lives to him. What they do with that power is, as always, up to them. The gods do not have corporeal form, though I suppose they could if that's what they wanted (the planes of various alignments still exist, and the deceased still travel there when their time is up... the only difference is, the god they followed in life isn't there to greet them in death). They also have no disagreements between one another, since on a deific level, neutrality represents complete and utter indifference. Truthfully, my campaign works off the philosophy that gods are simply spiritual manifestations of ideals. Violence, magic, death, etc. These things, in and of themselves, are not good or evil or what-have-you. "Guns don't kill people - people kill people." So, long story short, Pender... the gods themselves probably don't even know how powerful they are, because as far as mortals can tell, they don't even really exist. It still begs the question, though, of who came up with the names in the first place?