Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMDaddy 02-18-06, 01:12 PM	My players just can't get their act together. One simple encounter takes at least 2 hours. 1. Goofing off 2. Taking forever to figure out what to do 3. Not utilizing character abilities I'm sure you've all heard this before. Somehow I need to speed up play. The only option I've found that works is to: 1. End encounters quickers by lowering opponents hps as long as they spend at least 4 rounds fighting 2. Streamline rules instead of spending time looking up every factor. For example, grapple, spells, skills. 3. Streamline their actions when no encounters are present. For example, "so you've enter the dungeon and defeated the guards, now, you've traveled up the corridor and come to a junction and you hear sounds". I don't give them the option of saying how they get to the junction cause it will take 15 minutes for them to decide how they get to the junction. Since nothing will happen until the junction, I just announce that they are at the junction with no incidences. What do you do to speed up play?
Someone 02-18-06, 01:21 PM	Well, number 1 is probably a side-effect of them not getting enough social time. Do they have really busy work/school schedules? Maybe they figure this is the only time they will have to socialize, so they're going to use it. Number 2 could be solved with an egg timer- basically, if they can't resolve their combat round in three to five minutes, then they lose their turn. Also, remind them to try to pay attention and think of their next move when its the other people's turn, rather than when the initiative count come back to them. As for number 3, simply let them lose. If they are making the challenges harder than they need to be, that's their own fault. Player's shouldn't be afraid of using their character's abilities. How often do you throw encounters at them? Are they afraid to use up their limited uses/day abilities? Another way around numbers 2 and 3 is to have the players think out ahead of time what their character's normal tactics are, from a roleplaying perspective. That way they would have a ready answer to their combat actions, as well as a chance to go over the mechanics ahead of time. But lastly, is everyone having fun? If so, its not too big a deal.
TheChilliGod 02-18-06, 01:25 PM	Okay, Solution #3 is a big no-no IMO. It's called railroading, and it takes the game out of the players' hands, which makes them feel that they aren't part of the process. Here's one, if you find that players are taking too long during combat. Establish a 2-minute-long time limit on each of the players' turns. If they don't decide, their turn is spent standing in the area and drooling. Edit-Nerts, beaten to the punch. As for goofing off, you can either set time before/during/after your session for OOG banter, or you can shut them up by either shouting, or shaking a metal container filled with glass marbles. (Believe me, it works) Hope I Helped.
PenderGrass 02-18-06, 01:28 PM	Let me start by asking - Why do you need to speed up play? I find that my players may mess around a bit - sometimes a lot. But, they usually police themselves as needed - if everyone is bored waiting for someone to look things up, then everyone helps them look it up. If everyone is goofing around - this means everyone is laughing and having a good time. This is an important factor of the game night at my house. Eventually, the goofing subsides and it's back to business. As an example, last night my group made less than a day's travel, had one encounter and we ended it right after the end of combat. Everyone had fun, though. Sure, they fail short of making a huge stride - but we had fun. Isn't that the point? So, if you find that goofing around is interferring with play - take a moment and look around. Is everyone smiling and joking? If so, then maybe you are moving at the right pace anyways. Then again, if you see only a minority enjoying the jokes, you may well have to organize the majority to kick the minority in the gloots. :dragon: ****
DMDaddy 02-18-06, 01:47 PM	Oh yeah, everyone is having alot of fun. I find that I join in occasionally with the fun by creating fun descriptions. For example, the fighter was pestered by an invisible 1st level halfing. After several misses, he finally picked the right square and succeed in a hit and did 15 damage. My description, "you gr. axe splits the head of the 1/2ling and wedges itself in his skull. Blood flows down the sides of an invisible body." The players concern was secrecy, so he ran from the scene. Unfortunately, the 1/2ling was still attached to the gr. axe as the player ran into the public street. Locals were screaming at this sceen. The player then had to remove the body from the axe at the dismay of watching locals. So, for fun, I will have to sacrifice (I don't mean the players). Besides, they are learning how to apply tactics, skills, feats, etc...with each little step they make. I create the encounter to make them utilize skills. Like "obtain a key without killing a hostile opponent." Ok, I'm rambling now.
Animorphic 02-18-06, 03:45 PM	WOW! this sounds awfully lot like my games. I just thought it was only my problem. My DM, once had to drop an enormous ***** from the sky to get people to be quiet. HAHA, that was fun! My advice is, well, you had something planned right? Don't. Be spontaneous. That way, you don't need to do that much work, and you're not disappointed when things dont go as fast as you want them. Oh, and the marbles idea? doesn't work. I tried it.
DMDaddy 02-18-06, 07:04 PM	After much reflection on past game sessions, I've realized that most of my players are not seriously into the game. They want to have fun and not worry about if they are following any story lines or quests. There common solution to problems is "let's just kill it." They want to find gold and have powerful weapons, and try them all out on the nearest foes, or, even innocent by standers. I'm going to start them over from level 1 and redo all my DM thinking. Here's some of my thoughts, please comment on how these ideas will turn out. 1. First off, their actions dictate "evil" alignment, but I won't tell them this, else I give them a license to kill and be evil. So, I will have to plan that they will do evil actions and prepare to make a way out for their evil deeds. In towns, they will be part of the "underground". (I hate evil campaigns, but its the only option with such players). This will have to be so, cause the first few times they do something evil, authorities will put them on the wanted list. They will always be running from town guards and such. They will not be treated favorable in most establishments. Some NPC will always have to show up to offer them a way out or else they will die. 2. I will give them the gold they want, but with circumstances. They will loose it often, and have to pay high fees to local thieves guilds. 3. Quests will be simple. Speak with a person about something, and person will be evil and want to trick and kill them; bring me a madusa head from some location; steel an item. No real story lines or deep plots. The hooks will be character recognition, powerful magic items, personal fame, gold, and prestige positions in secret organizations/guilds. 4. I won't take them through any large and elaborate dungeons. Maybe a small tower, a destroyed mansion with only a few rooms remaining, peoples houses, town sewers. And, I will only place 2 or 3 encounters. One will always be some monster that they will enjoy fighting, like a dragon, beholder, etc...In this way, they can kill something enjoyable. 5. All CRs will be -1 to -3 less, but, I will use all tactics at monsters disposal. This should balance out since they use no good tactics. When they start using tactics, feats, and skills effectively, then I'll raise the CR for encounters back up to normal. Just some ideas. Looking for input.
Animorphic 02-18-06, 08:55 PM	Great! Just great! I should copy it.
Paiku 02-18-06, 09:28 PM	DMDaddy, to me, your five points make you sound like you are resigned to not having the kind of fun that YOU want to have. You want to script grand mysteries, conspiracies and discoveries, but your players don't have the patience (or the maturity?) for any more than a good fight with a cool creature. Now that you have figured out their requirements, maybe you can overlay yours. Could you sketch out a grand mystery which would reveal itself gradually over a period of several hack'n'slash encounters? My vague ideas: the PCs find an unusual magic item in one of their hauls. When they get it identified, they learn some fragments of historical fact that seem important, but there's not enough to go on. They add the item to their arsenal and move on. In their next adventure, upon killing the evil wizard, they find that he has been smuggling certain things or people into the city. Why? In their next quest, they venture into the mountains to challenge a treasure-hoarding dragon that nests out there -- only to find the dragon gone, and a dimensional gate at the back of his lair! Why?? Etc. Your short, sharp adventures keep the players happily knee-deep in gore, gold and glory. But over the course of four-to-six of these outtings, the PCs start to see a big-picture that nobody else knows about. Each clue reminds them of the previous ones, and builds on them. Eventually, they'll realize that they know something that nobody else knows! Something that can lead them to greater glory, power, fame, and some REALLY COOL new creatures to kill! Not to mention, to solve the grand mystery you've woven. Whether your clues lead them to cross the ocean or step through a planar gate, they'll gladly pursue them. Two maxims: 1. prepare way more clues than you think they'll need: present the most obvious ones (i.e. the dead give-aways) last, so they'll feel smart when they figure things out before finding them. 2. mysterious clues may not leave your players hungry to delve into what you've planned, but don't underestimate the power of foreshadowing! Being a DM is like being a psychologist, sometimes, eh? Good luck,
DMDaddy 02-18-06, 10:42 PM	Flying over their heads!!! That's it. Did you hear the "click" in my head? This will work perfectly. I started using a similar technique for individual Dungeon crawls, and it works great (a quest inside a quest), but it never occured to use it over many serious of small quests/adventures/encounters. Now, that little insignificant thief they killed will have repercussions when his big powerful brother shows up. Or, that useless polished stone that they can't get rid of (cursed) is a homing beckon for a mage who can use it as a spell storing stone. Hey, even a clue in a villain's house may lead them back to another villain. If that don't work, then I'll throw more obvious clues. Hey, I can make a serious of clues that lead to something. If one fails, then I can allow another to be found along the way. Great!!! Joy over ethusiasticly emphasized!!! Jump!!! Hop!!! Skip!!!
Ralvuimego 02-19-06, 12:58 AM	DMDaddy, I share your pain ;) . Example: Alright, I just had a lizardfolk ranger guide my party to the location of a temple of the god of slaughter, then provide them with this horn with which they can use to summon the ranger to guide them back. Suddenly the game collapses in on itself as the group begins fighting over who gets posession of a common signaling horn! They argued over it for a good 15 minutes before I got sick of it and unleashed a Yellow Musk Zombie Troll at them (The temple was infested with yellow musk creepers, which they were to clear out, so it only made sense) and that streightened them out real quick. I am pretty sure that they would have gotten right back to their argument had it not been for the rediculous time constraints on my game sessions, roughly 15 mins/30mins twice per day, by the time they had killed the troll the argument had been about 6 sessions back, so it was pretty well forgotten. My advice: If you write a DMing script for each room, thin out what you are to say when they enter the room or search the room unless it is absolutely nesscessary that you go into great detail. A "Room, about 30 feet long and 30 feet across with walls crafted of stone, now stained with age. A hollowed cylindricular structure in the center filled with molten lava sits in the center, filling the room with a heavy black smoke" can be easily described as a "Stone-walled room roughly 30" by 30" with a well-like protrusion filled with lava in the center" though option A sounds cooler, if your party lacks focus than option B might be better, since it gives them a fairly decent image of the room without cutting into their action time. My Rant(AKA: The part you don't have to read): The "Hack-and-Slash" players who barely pay any attention to their skills are generally using experience built onto them by other games. A cookie goes to the person who can give me an example of a character in a game where magic exists who prevails through the use of sheer skill.
xvthreetwoonevx 02-19-06, 03:46 AM	My Rant(AKA: The part you don't have to read): The "Hack-and-Slash" players who barely pay any attention to their skills are generally using experience built onto them by other games. A cookie goes to the person who can give me an example of a character in a game where magic exists who prevails through the use of sheer skill. Haha, actually, i'm playing one right now. A breaking-and-entering, skillmonkey rogue/ranger/theif-acrobat, avoids combat at all costs and refuses to use magic items to assist him because of a few bad experiences with AMF's. Do I get a cookie now? :-p