Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theHermit 12-20-04, 04:37 AM	So, I had a session last friday, and one of my players (new to the group) decided to play a gnome sorcerer. He wanted to ride on the barbarian's shoulders during combat and he yelled and screamed when I declared an attack on him ("I'm on top of him...he's 8 feet tall. There's no way it could reac this high!")... Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Now, I don't play favorites...but come on! How dumb is that... Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... I can't kick him out, and I don't want to punish his characters for his OOG actions, but he's bringing the group down. I also don't want to remove him from the game, he's a good freind of the other DM... I seem to be at an impasse. PS: He also grappled a caster and one of the other players killed his character on accident (trying to hit the caster)...I had a good laugh about that.
ShadowDragon8685 12-20-04, 04:42 AM	Kick him. OOG problems into game = banish and excommunicate.
Xenocide 12-20-04, 04:58 AM	Kill the player Then kill his character for good measure. Really, why can't you kick him out?
Telperion 12-20-04, 05:07 AM	Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Now, I don't play favorites...but come on! How dumb is that... Well, if he had a really good in-character reason for it. Other than that: not very brilliant, as you said yourself. DMPCs and the DM's Girlfriend's PCs should always, whenever humanly possible, be worshipped and left untouched. What else can you expect from such a combination of personal accords and levels upon levels of OOG intrigue? Personally I don't like to get personal when I'm playing a game of D&D. The best way to do that is by leaving my personal life at the door. I know that a lot of people don't agree with me, but it works for me... Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... I can't kick him out, and I don't want to punish his characters for his OOG actions, but he's bringing the group down. I also don't want to remove him from the game, he's a good freind of the other DM... Talk to him, try to reason to him, be a friend to him...the usual stuff...If it doesn't work out then kick him out of the group. You really can do that, BTW. It is simply a matter of how much you want to. PS: He also grappled a caster and one of the other players killed his character on accident (trying to hit the caster)...I had a good laugh about that. Well, I bet that didn't make him any happier. How about, politely, asking him to take a break? A couple of weeks can do wonders...
theHermit 12-20-04, 05:14 AM	DMPCs and the DM's Girlfriend's PCs should always, whenever humanly possible, be worshipped and left untouched. What else can you expect from such a combination of personal accords and levels upon levels of OOG intrigue? :rofl: Indeed. Although, not really. You'd be surprised how harsh I am to her character. No more or less than I am to any other. I don't play a combat heavy game, so most chars. don't have short lifespans. The point is, I don't favor her, but how dumb is it to attack a party member??? Argh. He just irks me. He's a good friend of the guy who hosts the games, and the host's always trying to talk him up and ask me to give him another chance and that I should "be the adult"...but he's cutting into my fun...argh. I guess I just needed somewhere to vent. *sigh*
Telperion 12-20-04, 05:38 AM	The point is, I don't favor her, but how dumb is it to attack a party member??? Generally speaking: not very intelligent, unless you are retiring a character and even then it is usually not a good idea. People can claim that they aren't carrying grudges from one character to another, but that isn't 100 % true in most cases. We are, after all, humans. I guess I just needed somewhere to vent. *sigh* No problem.
Escef 12-20-04, 06:45 AM	He's a good friend of the guy who hosts the games, and the host's always trying to talk him up and ask me to give him another chance and that I should "be the adult"...but he's cutting into my fun...argh. Ask your host why he doesn't ask the problem player to be an adult. From what you've said you are being more or less adult about this. The other guy seems to have a problem with your girl. Whatever the case, talk to the other players. Do they feel the same? If enough of the group wants him out the host may have to decide between the group and the game. You don't invite someone to play sports who harrasses his own teammates, why do the same with D&D?
Ut-Napishtim 12-20-04, 06:56 AM	Well as inclined as I am to take your word at face value, perhaps a little introspection is in order. I've seen many a DM that says: I don't play favorites. that can't see the forest for the trees. IMHO you should ask yourself a few questions before you go and throw this player out on his ear. 1. Is your girlfriend's character at a higher level than 75% or more of the other players in the group, even by only one level? Is your girlfriends character at a higher level than this player's character by two levels or more? 2. When added together, do the ability scores of your girlfriend's character total higher than any other character in the party? When added together is the total 6 or more higher than this player's character? 3. Is your girlfriend's character Chaoic Neutral? Does she like to cause trouble for other characters with the town guard, embarass them in front of powerful NPC's they're trying to impress, ****-block them when they're trying to score some action at the local bar, or steal and hide their most prized weapons or items as a "practical joke?" 4. When totaled together is the value of your girfriend's character's equipment, items and cash total more than any other player's? If you can answer yes to any of these quesions then your player may have a legitimate gripe. That doesn't mean his way of dealing with it is at all appropriate, but I doubt he feels approaching you about it will accomplish anything more than perhaps making you angry.
deadDMwalking 12-20-04, 08:18 AM	It seems that a significant aspect of your problem is that the game is being held hostage. Your friend hosts the game. If you upset him, you could lose the location. Why not change the location? It might sound like it will involve some difficulty, but all in all, it might be for the best. You might find that this player improves if he knows the protection his friend provides is limited or nonexistent. You should look into this as a possibility. If you can use your own living space (ideal) you have the excuse built in that you didn't want to have to bring all of your books. If he ruins your fun, and that doesn't seem like it is going to change, you really only have two options - throw him out, or make him decide to leave. I don't know why it is always gnomes, but it is. I still get the heebie-jeebies thinking about my player Kirk who (thankfully) left to find a more "mature" game. I giggled about that, since he was the one who wouldn't show up some weeks without warning me, and tried to tell me that gnomes compared noses because the size of the nose is directly proportional to the size of the.... Anyway. Your girlfriend's cohort now has a legitimate reason to want his character dead. Maybe you should tell her that you won't mind if his character dies (assuming he has been raised, not if he is playing a new character). When you later meet his "new" character, let the party know that they don't have to accept the character he made. If they don't like an assassin who seems to hate character x, they don't have to let him join the group. He can keep making new characters until he comes up with one that everyone likes.
Phrennzy 12-20-04, 09:42 AM	Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... Sounds to me like he is in love with you, and can't stand that he has to share you with her. ...or not... I'd go with deadDM's advice, and escef. Tell the other DM to tell the problem player to take another level in maturity.
siege72 12-20-04, 11:17 AM	So, I had a session last friday, and one of my players (new to the group) decided to play a gnome sorcerer. He wanted to ride on the barbarian's shoulders during combat and he yelled and screamed when I declared an attack on him ("I'm on top of him...he's 8 feet tall. There's no way it could reac this high!")... Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Now, I don't play favorites...but come on! How dumb is that... Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... I can't kick him out, and I don't want to punish his characters for his OOG actions, but he's bringing the group down. I also don't want to remove him from the game, he's a good freind of the other DM... I seem to be at an impasse. I had an issue a while ago, and someone gave me a wonderful piece of advice: "Life is too short to deal with terrible gamers" If someone is disrupting your game, take him on the side and talk to him. His idea of fun may be different than yours. Or he might want to do his own thing, and not care that anyone else isn't having fun. The problem player may not even realize the issues he's causing. I agree with deadDMwalking, your game is being held hostage. You need let your host know that as DM you have final say in how the game is run. If you don't, there's no point in even DMing -- it's not your game anymore.
theHermit 12-20-04, 03:37 PM	1. Is your girlfriend's character at a higher level than 75% or more of the other players in the group, even by only one level? Is your girlfriends character at a higher level than this player's character by two levels or more? 2. When added together, do the ability scores of your girlfriend's character total higher than any other character in the party? When added together is the total 6 or more higher than this player's character? 3. Is your girlfriend's character Chaoic Neutral? Does she like to cause trouble for other characters with the town guard, embarass them in front of powerful NPC's they're trying to impress, ****-block them when they're trying to score some action at the local bar, or steal and hide their most prized weapons or items as a "practical joke?" 4. When totaled together is the value of your girfriend's character's equipment, items and cash total more than any other player's? 1. Nope 2. Nope. 3. She's Lawful Good with Neutral Leanings. She keeps the party out of trouble most of the time, and she's not into pranks. She's also the one who's usually trying to score at bars. Feels weird when she flirts with an NPC. . . 4. Less, actually. Maybe I'm too hard on her?
theHermit 12-20-04, 03:40 PM	Why not change the location? It might sound like it will involve some difficulty, but all in all, it might be for the best. You might find that this player improves if he knows the protection his friend provides is limited or nonexistent. You should look into this as a possibility. If you can use your own living space (ideal) you have the excuse built in that you didn't want to have to bring all of your books. Problem is, the host has a baby and it's not feasible for him to bring her to another location. He and his wife are some of my best players, and so I don't want to lose them. . . Argh.
Ut-Napishtim 12-20-04, 03:51 PM	Cool, just checking man. Sounds like you're being fair to me. :ayyyy!:
aurelia_skye 12-20-04, 04:35 PM	4. Less, actually. Maybe I'm too hard on her? I would say that yes, you need to give me more stuff. Everyone else won thousands of gold last session. I made 10 gold dancing on the bar. :D
psionichamster 12-20-04, 04:41 PM	my suggestion is to have a heart-to-heart with the host of the game... i dm at my friends' house, where the majority of the players are living...it just makes it easier, and we are all cool with one another... but if there were problems btw. me and another player (who did not live there) and the host stepped in between, there's a problem there. more than the "horribly problematic player" you've described... talk to the baby-owners calmly, without making accusations or raising your voice (just pointers, i had to learn these the hard way) and see just exactly why they think this person is adding to the fun of those present... is he a relative of the hosts? are they beholden to him in some manner? if its as bad as all this, i'd call a hiatus to the game (yes i know it sucks, but sometimes you gotta do...) and thoroughly explore their reasons for his incusion to the group. as far as the cohort/pc fireball thing...depending on the cohort's alignment and power level, i'd let him/her kill the offending PC in his sleep/poison his food/something equally underhanded (if LG or so...a straight out challenge will work) as has been said before, and as i am sure you know...DnD is a group activity...if ONE of the people in the group is going out of their way to make it un-fun for the rest, it's time to lose that one. period. as far as not being able to move the game...try a diner...denny's or bickfords were very kind to my groups in HS...letting us play magic or DnD or whatever, so long as we were not too disruptive and actually bought something...you'd be surprised what you can get arranged when you talk to the manager confidently and "professionally" hope you can get this fixed... the hamster (ps...if this don't work, get a shovel...)
Didge 12-20-04, 04:41 PM	There's been some good advice here by posters above, so no reason to repeat good advice in other, varying words. What I will suggest is a different means of solving the solution. First speak to the player in question. Explain the next time he "acts out" he's put on probation. Probation means whatever you want it to mean. It could be penalties on XP, or it could mean after the third time you've given him a warning you boot him. Second, you could have his in-game effects have consequences. Such as the fireballing the cohort. As mentioned above, if I were the cohort I might be a little upset if someone tried to light me up in flames, and be a bit offended by the action. Third, if he wants to sit on the Barbarian's shoulders, fine. I'd apply a penalty to the Barbarian's to-hit rolls (Probably -2 off the cuff), due to the gnome's weight not being stable. Sure, the Barbarian can most likely carry the weight, but try lifting a sack that weighs 40 pounds or so that squirms. Now imagine it moving, and wrapped around your neck. I don't care how strong you are, it gets a little dicey. I'd also take a moment and explain weapon reach to the player in question. When he made the comment about being "8 foot up!" I'd respond with one of two options here: 1st (if I didn't want to get into physics, or just felt like I didn't want to have an arguement)- "Hmm. That's nice. But the barbarian is not standing straight up every single second. He's dodging too and fro. The creature/NPC/whatever took a swing when the barbarian was dodging downwards." If he gave me grief after that, I'd say,"Well, you need to tell your Barb friend to stop moving then. I'm sure he'll stand perfectly still while you lob spells from his shoulders. I'm sure his standing perfectly still will affect his AC, but I doubt he'll mind. Why don't you ask him yourself." 2nd (If I wanted to bring a little bit of realism into the game) - "Well, I'm 6'1"-ish and in moderate good physical shape, and I can jump and touch bare-handed a 10' marker, without too much difficulty. Now, I add a 2 1/2' stick (weapon) and that's 12-and-a-half feet. You still have a problem believing he can't hit you? He's a good friend of the guy who hosts the games, and the host's always trying to talk him up and ask me to give him another chance... If he's a good friend of the person in question, explain that you appreciate that his friend is a good guy to him, but in the game he is being disruptive and disrespectful. Say that you necessarily don't have anything personal against him, but that his character's actions are such that they may warrant him being kicked out of the game. If this guy is a good friend, he'll tell 'em to "chill out" or get dumped. Just warn him that's he's getting out of hand and that you won't back down. Explain that you're willing to work with him to deal with whatever problems he thinks he's having, but the solutions he's come up with are not the correct, or your view of right, choices. That aside, could it be an age/maturity thing? Sounds like it, but I'm just guessing at this point. This post came out a lot longer than I had anticipated, but hopefully it'll help.
siege72 12-20-04, 04:52 PM	Problem is, the host has a baby and it's not feasible for him to bring her to another location. He and his wife are some of my best players, and so I don't want to lose them. . . I've had the exact same issue with two of my players; they have three children and it's difficult for them to get a sitter (for several reasons). We've had disagreements in the past, but it comes down to: It's their home, and they decide who is around and near their kids. Fair enough. It's my game. I'm responsible for making all of gaming decisions (in and out of character). If there's a disconnect that can't be solved, we don't play at their house. If that means one or both can't play, not my problem. The DM is responsible for all of the players having a good time. If your hosts are interfering with that, you need to chat with them.
enailis 12-20-04, 05:17 PM	He wanted to ride on the barbarian's shoulders during combat and he yelled and screamed when I declared an attack on him ("I'm on top of him...he's 8 feet tall. There's no way it could reac this high!")... boy thats immtature...the agian it really dose depend on what wepon the attacker is using, but even then he could probbly hit the gnome Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Not to start an alingiment argument but I can safely say that's an evil act you may also want to make your girlfriend's cohort afraid and/or want to kill the gnome now.... on top of that the cohort will probbly tell some people in the local tavren and start a bad reputation for the gnome As for solitions talk to the player frist and see if you can get him to change his ways, if not well then talk to the host about kicking the player out
e-z0r 12-20-04, 05:44 PM	aurelia_skye, not to be questioning you, but can you expect to get +5 greatswords of ogreslaying by dancing at the bar? :) 10gp is a lot. A gallon of ale costs 2sp. You could stay for almost two months(50 days) at a common inn with 10gp.
Dragonspirit 12-20-04, 06:19 PM	It's amazing how bad luck might befall a gnomish wizard. Gnomes are prone to accidents, It's just in their nature. Really, that meteor from space could have landed on anyone. Oh well... now I'm sure your new character won't be a hostile, chaotic, nitwit. Did I mention you have to play something of opposite alignment and race this time around? Oops. :cool: (IOW, if a character becomes disruptive to the flow of the game, they have to go. Then, if that PLAYER'S new character has the same problem (or specifically, is also problematic), you can be assured it is not him roleplaying. It is that he is deliberately TRYING to cause problems. And in that case, it's time to kick him out or at the least have a talk.)
Phrennzy 12-20-04, 06:54 PM	aurelia_skye, not to be questioning you, but can you expect to get +5 greatswords of ogreslaying by dancing at the bar? :) Maybe she's REALLY good at dancing?
e-z0r 12-20-04, 07:33 PM	Maybe she's REALLY good at dancing? Well obviously you'd either have to be REALLY good or a ninja to get treasure like that from table dancing. Because, as we know, ninjas can do anything. Yes.. really good or ninja. Should do the trick. How best to get to be really good at dancing? Hmm.. Bard with insance dex, con and cha, max ranks in perform(dance), with Skill Focus: Perform(dance) every three levels, max Balance, Jump, preferably Escape artist and such (for synergies sake).. a pair of Boots of Speed, cloak of charisma +6, gloves of dex +6, tome of leadership and influence +6.. Hmm.. I'm out.
scott644 12-20-04, 08:03 PM	Problem is, the host has a baby and it's not feasible for him to bring her to another location. He and his wife are some of my best players, and so I don't want to lose them. . . Argh. Is it really such a problem? We've got two members of my own gaming group that have three such critters running around the house; from the first one on, they never let it even slow them down - they just went everywhere with babies/kids in tow.
happycows 12-20-04, 08:54 PM	Gnome illusionists are hard to play unless you're choatic evil. Because being tricky and good and not creating mass choas in an evil manner is very hard. Even as choatic good you're bound to do evil. It's okay to fireball npcs or pcs especially if they're rogues. They're supposed to save it's called evasion and high reflex. But everyone else how about no, because that's pushing it. Does it matter where the center of the fireball is? I mean is the cohort he fireballed a rogue? You got to give us more details man. I'm skeptical on you since you're just complaining and ranting on a forum. People that do that are generally not very credible. As a gnome's offensive magic is generally limited since the most powerfull gnomes would use illusion and grab the prestige class in the Races of Stone. So good for gnomes. Always having concealment in dark areas. Ranks in hide help when you cast invisibility. When dualing other mages you can always teleport away and scrying on you is a bit harder since you've preped stuff against divination; after all what gnome doesn't have a defence against divination? Not to mention the defences against divination are often illusions which gnomes are supposed to be kick ass at. The point is as a gnome illusionist he is limited in offensive capability untill he gets shades. Generally fireball and magic missle is all he can do up to the shadehood point. Why be a gnome and a wizard/sorcerer and not specialize in illusion? That's just weak... minus well be a human or an elf. I assume that he is in fact an illusionist which would explain why he didn't bust out summon monster or something.
theHermit 12-20-04, 09:02 PM	Gnome illusionists are hard to play unless you're choatic evil. Because being tricky and good and not creating mass choas in an evil manner is very hard. Even as choatic good you're bound to do evil. Gnome Sorcerer. Not illusionist. It's okay to fireball npcs or pcs especially if they're rogues. They're supposed to save it's called evasion and high reflex. But everyone else how about no, because that's pushing it. Does it matter where the center of the fireball is? I mean is the cohort he fireballed a rogue? You got to give us more details man. I'm skeptical on you since you're just complaining and ranting on a forum. People that do that are generally not very credible. Actually it was a 4th level fighter who is a good freind of the party (and who has a CRAPPY reflex save). It wasn't even neccesary to aim the fireball at him. I think he did it for spite... As a gnome's offensive magic is generally limited since the most powerfull gnomes would use illusion and grab the prestige class in the Races of Stone. So good for gnomes. Always having concealment in dark areas. Ranks in hide help when you cast invisibility. When dualing other mages you can always teleport away and scrying on you is a bit harder since you've preped stuff against divination; after all what gnome doesn't have a defence against divination? Not to mention the defences against divination are often illusions which gnomes are supposed to be kick ass at. The point is as a gnome illusionist he is limited in offensive capability untill he gets shades. Generally fireball and magic missle is all he can do up to the shadehood point. Why be a gnome and a wizard/sorcerer and not specialize in illusion? That's just weak... minus well be a human or an elf. I assume that he is in fact an illusionist which would explain why he didn't bust out summon monster or something. Again, Gnome Sorcerer. He's not an illusionist. And, as far as sorcerers go, no one race really has an edge.
bjjrick 12-20-04, 09:20 PM	Just remember the game is greater then any one person. Don't let one person ruin the game. If you do, your not only cheating the other players out of their time but not letting them have fun, it begins to show poor DM skills. Check out Roleplaying Master, GM Master, or Insidiae. All are how to master and improve oneself, specificaly as a GM
Didge 12-21-04, 12:07 PM	It's okay to fireball npcs or pcs especially if they're rogues. They're supposed to save it's called evasion and high reflex. -happycows I'd like to go on record here. If I were a playing a rogue (even one with an insane Reflex Save) and some yahoo mage/sorcerer companion started flinging fireball spells at me, I'd be a little bit more than upset, no matter the outcome. That mage/sorcerer would not be rememorizing spells in the morning if you get my drift. The only reason this might be acceptable is if the mage had a reasonable excuse (more than half the party was already dead and we were most likely doomed if the mage didn't let loose a big bomb style spell, or the creature had grabbed me and had a higher move base than the group and was about to carry me off to be eaten, etc.). In which case, I might let him/her rememorize spells in the morning, along with those precious other things like breathing, and eating foods that haven't been liquified. Let me break this down for you in a constructive manner so that you can understand your flawed logic of, "It's ok to fireball the rogue, he'll make his save." If I had choice between a guarenteed 100% chance or a 95% chance of something good happening, I'd take the 100%. Now to explain. It doesn't matter how good your rogue's reflex save is, or that he has evasion. A "1" is always a failure. Thus if I was forced to roll, even though I knew I had a 95% chance of success, I'd be upset because there was the option of 100% of success if yahoo mage/sorcerer didn't center the fireball on me. See the difference? Sorry I just couldn't let that go without speaking up on the matter.
LordofIllusions 12-21-04, 12:11 PM	So, I had a session last friday, and one of my players (new to the group) decided to play a gnome sorcerer. He wanted to ride on the barbarian's shoulders during combat and he yelled and screamed when I declared an attack on him ("I'm on top of him...he's 8 feet tall. There's no way it could reac this high!")... Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Now, I don't play favorites...but come on! How dumb is that... Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... I can't kick him out, and I don't want to punish his characters for his OOG actions, but he's bringing the group down. I also don't want to remove him from the game, he's a good freind of the other DM... I seem to be at an impasse. PS: He also grappled a caster and one of the other players killed his character on accident (trying to hit the caster)...I had a good laugh about that. Of course you can "kick him out." Your the DM. Refer him to the Whiney Player's Handbook v3.5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=353913)(tell him "that's you kid"), revoke his gaming pass, and call it a day. Problem solved. ~~~
Valdar 12-21-04, 12:22 PM	No clue on how to deal with the main issue, but if some player was being a putz and wanted to ride a barbarian, I'd start by saying that the gnome was the equivalent of heavy armor, and the barb would lose all the abilities he would normally lose in plate (starting with the extra move). See how long he wanted to be a horse then. And, being that the barbarian has no skill being ridden, don't give him any checks to notice that he's going through a six-foot doorway, and have the gnome get knocked off. It's only meager falling damage, but very fun, especially in combat.
Rodak_the_Dim 12-21-04, 01:31 PM	No clue on how to deal with the main issue, but if some player was being a putz and wanted to ride a barbarian, I'd start by saying that the gnome was the equivalent of heavy armor, and the barb would lose all the abilities he would normally lose in plate (starting with the extra move). See how long he wanted to be a horse then. And, being that the barbarian has no skill being ridden, don't give him any checks to notice that he's going through a six-foot doorway, and have the gnome get knocked off. It's only meager falling damage, but very fun, especially in combat. This is really good advice. Many times with a player like this you can creatively have him suffer the consequence of his actions to give him a message. And if he wants to make a big issue of it.....two things. 1.) Get a life 2.) Hit the road
Azual 12-21-04, 02:16 PM	the cohort he centered the fireball on has just been crowned king/queen of the region. :evillaugh he/she is still mad at the Gnome.
delroland 12-21-04, 04:54 PM	Well obviously you'd either have to be REALLY good or a ninja to get treasure like that from table dancing. Because, as we know, ninjas can do anything. Yes.. really good or ninja. Should do the trick. How best to get to be really good at dancing? Hmm.. Bard with insance dex, con and cha, max ranks in perform(dance), with Skill Focus: Perform(dance) every three levels, max Balance, Jump, preferably Escape artist and such (for synergies sake).. a pair of Boots of Speed, cloak of charisma +6, gloves of dex +6, tome of leadership and influence +6.. Hmm.. I'm out. You could spray the room with DMSO and LSD; that's GOTTA be worth at least a +2...
Son of Khoron 12-21-04, 06:34 PM	So, I had a session last friday, and one of my players (new to the group) decided to play a gnome sorcerer. He wanted to ride on the barbarian's shoulders during combat and he yelled and screamed when I declared an attack on him ("I'm on top of him...he's 8 feet tall. There's no way it could reac this high!")... Not to mention, he declared to the group that he was going to center a fireball on my girlfriend's cohort. Now, I don't play favorites...but come on! How dumb is that... How dumb is that? Hmm...dont know, never been that dumb to be experienced to answer that question. Not to mention he is openly hostile towards her (with no reason) in both my campaign and one my friend runs... I can't kick him out, and I don't want to punish his characters for his OOG actions, but he's bringing the group down. I also don't want to remove him from the game, he's a good freind of the other DM... I am not one to say who is worth more, your girlfriend or your friendship to the other DM. Use your judgment on that matter...thats hitting on personal. However, if there is any disruption in the game for wathever reason, you as a DM can take this player aside and ask him on the reason(s) behind his behavior. If you feel his answer (if he gives any) is OK w/ you, then inform him that he needs to either change or he needs to leave. You as a DM is in charge of the game and the fun factor for the players. Dont let friendship with a player affect what you think is right. In the event that the player is let go and the other DM is informed of your reasons for it, but that DM just doesnt get it...then he is not a friend of yours that is worth explaining the matter any further. He's already made his choice on what he only WANTS TO HEAR and SEE.
delroland 12-21-04, 10:16 PM	:heehee (minus the laughing, more like a :confused: ) Dude, what is the story with your sig?! As far as gnomes riding barbarians goes, theoretically it could be possible (remember Master/Blaster?). However, this would definately not put the gnome out of reach, as technically the barbarian only takes up one cube, and the gnome would take up the cube above the barbarian. A small or medium creature can attack the adjacent cube to the up-front; however, this WOULD put the attacker well within the reach of the barbarian. Also, a specially-constructed saddle would need to be employed; else the barbarian has to hold on to the gnome (and make no melee attacks) or the gnome has to make all sorts of Ride checks to stay in the saddle or cast spells in the saddle, with a -5 penalty for riding bareback, not to mention any DM-imposed circumstance penalty for riding a creature that is awkward to ride. And last time I checked, Ride is not a class skill for sorcerors. All of this is somewhat moot, however, as according to recent rulings (sorry, don't know where, but I know I have read them, perhaps in A&E?) generally bipedal creatures can only function as mounts for creatures two siye categories smaller.
Rodak_the_Dim 12-21-04, 10:25 PM	As much as I have seen it over the years I will never understand a player who wants to whine and cry and have things only his own way. Makes you wonder who has taught him that is acceptable behaviour. I also hate to admit it but it is usually the adults, not the kids, that are the worse offenders. :banghead: Well back to the City State I go.
Son of Khoron 12-22-04, 03:59 PM	As much as I have seen it over the years I will never understand a player who wants to whine and cry and have things only his own way. Makes you wonder who has taught him that is acceptable behaviour. I also hate to admit it but it is usually the adults, not the kids, that are the worse offenders. :banghead: Well back to the City State I go. Had a player once who whined and cried, did stupid things feeling he could get away with it. Apparently, the player had no father and was raised in regards to having the mother let him win in every game they played together. Sounds like "babying the child" creates a habit-forming dependency to win? Almost like a drug. From my understanding, whining and crying is acceptable if the parents allow it to occur or if the child or adult got away with it or felt that this was a sure-fire way to get what he/she wants. If it works, why change it? Whiners and criers are both children, youngsters and adults, it is just the most pathetic ones are those of adult age. Its people like these that makes me lose interest in RPGs because those sorts seems to be attracted to RPGs.
Finnigan 12-25-04, 08:37 PM	Gnome illusionists are hard to play unless you're choatic evil. Because being tricky and good and not creating mass choas in an evil manner is very hard. Even as choatic good you're bound to do evil. I know this is late in the game, especially for this post, but I'm also a player in this and the other game, and I play a Chaotic Good Gnome wizard. It is not impossible to avoid evil. I mean putting alchemical powdered water in a player's sleeping bag so his sweat will activate it and soak him isn't evil, it's just fun. Why be a gnome and a wizard/sorcerer and not specialize in illusion? That's just weak... minus well be a human or an elf. I assume that he is in fact an illusionist which would explain why he didn't bust out summon monster or something. What are you smoking, and where can I get some? Specialist wizards in 3 and 3.5 are about as necessary as a condom machine in the Vatican. Especially since in 3.5 the preferred class for gnomes is Bard! It's okay to fireball npcs or pcs especially if they're rogues. They're supposed to save it's called evasion and high reflex. But everyone else how about no, because that's pushing it. Note to self, never play in one of his campaigns.
Gadodel 12-25-04, 10:45 PM	Kill the player Then kill his character for good measure. Really, why can't you kick him out? Very good suggestion. :cool:
satyrgrrrrl 12-25-04, 11:07 PM	Well, for one thing, the book says you can't occupy the same square as another character during combat: From the SRD: Ending Your Movement: You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless. There it is, he can't occupy the same square as the Barbarian during combat unless the Barbarian is helpless. If he wants to treat the Barbarian as a mount, then just tell him no. The Barbarian isn't trained for a rider (ok, that's pretty funny to me :P). If, however, you were feeling like a generous GM (which I don't think you are), you could simply consider them grappled. That is, no DEX to AC, they don't threaten, and they can't do anything but deal with each other. I'm sure the Barbarian wouldn't like not being able to attack while the Gnome is on his shoulders. The fireball issue has to be handled on a case-by-case basis. In one group, my Sorcerer was throwing fireballs all over the front line, because all of them had evasion and were cool with the tactic. In another, my Druid argued with the party Wizard for doing it, mostly because there was no communication in the group (we all have 8 Cha's!). Generally, it is frowned upon, though truly eloquent spellcasters can show that the loss/gain ratio significantly favored using the fireball. In one group for which I GM'd, the Fighter ran into a swarm of Morgs. The Wizard cast fireball on the lot of them, killing half of the Morgs and allowing the Fighter to not only survive, but cleave many of them. So, it's really a group thing, not to be discussed as a GM. Ideally, if your GF's character had a problem with it, her character should speak to the offending character. Since this guy is a jerk in other ways, I highly doubt it would work. As for dealing with the player, talk to him. Tell him he's being a jerk. Or, that he's bringing the game down. Like it or not, as the GM, you are responsible for the harmonics of the group. If one player is disrupting, you have to deal with that. Any player who is rude/mean to another player, regardless of personal relationships, should be spoken to and told to stop. Now, I GM and play with my husband and I know neither of us have abused our GM powers for the other. I also know that people have treated me differently, both nicer and meaner at the table, sometimes because they think I'm getting special treatment from the GM (most people are weak and give/demand special treatment, so the suspicion is always there). You need to address this issue. Don't let one player ruin the fun of others. Tell him that he's being disruptive and you've had complaints from other players. Ask him to tone back his character a bit. Get the other players involved; show him that it is a group issue, not just between you and him. Sometimes, people just don't realize they're being a jerk. Sometimes, if you say, "Hey, knock it off", "I'm the GM, and those are my rules; whining about them won't help", or some such thing, they actually respond. If he doesn't respond, or gets hostile, then boot him. Hope it helps! :angel:
Talon Blackhart 12-25-04, 11:16 PM	Gnome illusionists are hard to play unless you're choatic evil. Because being tricky and good and not creating mass choas in an evil manner is very hard. Even as choatic good you're bound to do evil. Ok, so all sneaky characters are automatically evil? Chaotic neutral maybe, but I don't realy see any guaranteed correlation between sneaky and evil. It's okay to fireball npcs or pcs especially if they're rogues. They're supposed to save it's called evasion and high reflex. But everyone else how about no, because that's pushing it. Does it matter where the center of the fireball is? I mean is the cohort he fireballed a rogue? In my groups, it is never okay to directly attack a friendly NPC or a party member without a very good reason. This tends to move alignments towards evil very rapidly, and I will not allow an evil char in a group (got burned by it once, won't do it again). You got to give us more details man. I'm skeptical on you since you're just complaining and ranting on a forum. People that do that are generally not very credible. Neither are people who randomly criticize other people for using the forum as it was meant to be used for, especially as this is a DM help forum. Anyway, now that I have all of that taken care of, I'll add my two cents about dealing with problem players: Probation is a very good way of dealing with problems. Taking a break from playing altogether is also good, particularly if the other players are as irritated by this individual as you are. However, it never seemed fair to me to punish the whole group because one player is being an idiot. The best advice I can give has been given several dozen times, however. Talk to the people involved, calmly and rationally (no yelling, screaming, making blatant accusations, or otherwise being offensive yourself.) Explain to your host how much this is creating a problem for you. Explain to the problem player that his behavior is creating a problem. Some PCs create characters that they intentionally give really abrasive personalities to, and don't always realize that it causes a problem for the rest of the group. Change the location if necessary. And, don't be afraid to tell a player that they have to shape up or leave. Or, if this person has already past that point, simply tell them to leave. You are the DM, and it's your game. Admittedly, a DM can't play without players, but the players can't make it very far without a DM, either, and since you accepted the job, that means you ultimately make the decisions.
theHermit 12-26-04, 02:36 PM	Well, this may be all moot. I've gotten word he will NOT be coming back. :w00t:
satyrgrrrrl 12-26-04, 02:59 PM	Well, this may be all moot. I've gotten word he will NOT be coming back. :w00t: :dancin: Nothing like not having your problems solved through no action of your own! :dancin:
Finnigan 12-26-04, 04:35 PM	Will he still play in Mikey's game? Or is he gone altogether? I was debating not even allowing him into my game if he's going to act like that.