Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheChilliGod 09-14-05, 01:53 AM	Well, this is starting to become a serious problem with my players. I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here, so I may need a bit of guidance. Before going about my problem, my group's characters are in my sig. Do note that some of the things written about them are slightly biased, and I am aware of that. Just my opinion. --- The human rogue's player is constantly expressing to me his problems with the other two members of the party—The cleric and the sorcerer. Both are currently advancing to third level, and he does not approve of the path the two are taking. The cleric, described as the 'weapon rack,' is becoming a fighter. This, so it is claimed, will upset the healing processes of the party, because of the unavailability of Cure Medium Wounds and extra spell slots. This increases the chances of the party dying. Furthermore, the player is not roleplaying the cleric as one of faith, acting more like a common fighter (with 25 odd weapons, of course) than a cleric, thus risking his divine powers. I am thinking that this would conflict with the True Believer feat (Complete Divine) that he plans to acquire next level, as well. The sorcerer's problem, so the rogue's player says, focuses far too much—exclusively, even—on spells that deal damage, other than investing in spells that have other uses, such as Color Spray. Doing this will reduce the flexibility of the party and also increase death rate. The two players have constantly talked with each other, and with me, about the sorcerer's choices, and the sorcerer's player is not willing to budge on the topic. Other issues that the rogue's player has brought up is the choice of skills (a rank in Ride, in this case, when there is no reason why this should be done other than 'So I can ride a horse.') and feats. (Although I don't know what is wrong with Craft Wondrous Items at this point) This has gotten to the point where the rogue's player has decided to basically not give a flying crap in space about the fate of those two players, and will simply "sit back, enjoy the game, and keep my secret store of cure potions secret." This will eventually and inevitably lead to IC conflict, which I want to avoid. He does still agree to assist the other two players with character choices, should they ask. He is the only player in the group who has played any game before my campaign. For the rest, my campaign is their first. I myself have not yet taken a sure side on this argument, basically looking at the situation from both players' point of view, and taking a neutral stance on the situation thus far. I can't do this forever, however, and I really need a bit of advice as to what to say when next I talk to the players (talking to people individually, but I can organize players to talk with each other if need be), and what actions I may be able to take in-game or out-of-game to assist a common agreement. Suggestions would be appreciated.
magicchupacabra 09-14-05, 02:31 AM	Ok, so the player with the cleric is playing with more of a militant bend to it. Nothing odd there. The player of the cleric is enjoying this right? And the Sorc player is doing the typical Sorc blaster. Something that is pretty common from my experience. Selecting spells that are not your typical blasting spells isn't really that great of an idea seeing as how limited the number of known spells is. I'm assuming the player of the Sorc is enjoying this as well. The player of the rogue wants the party to play his way though. Hmm. So he wants to make other players play the PCs he wants in the party. Interesting. And he thinks if they don't it will result in the death of the party. Very interesting. So instead of oh I dunno...being a team player and helping ensure that the healing supply stays constant, he instead hoards potions and keeps them secret. Very interesting. The player of the human rogue is pretty much an idiot and needs to grow up. His actions will help cause a tpk. If he wants those roles filled that aren't being filled tell him to put his PC to use, pump ranks in UMD and buy items to fill in the gaps.
Tedly224 09-14-05, 03:08 AM	This one is simple. Keep it all In Character as well. Have the Rogue player, in character, ask the party members what roles they intend to tackle as their fair contribution to the group involving current and future adventures they may become involved in. Then have the Rogue player listen to these and propose his own stated role of things he will be willing to tackle for the group as his contribution to the team. Have all of the player characters present when these statements are made, and simply put, encourage the Rogue player to stand by his stated pledge of what he'll do for the group. Now, during this process, one of two things will happen. 1) The party will recognize that they will be lacking in an area in the near future (such as healing) and it will become a party decision on what they will do to remedy it. This might require the party to set aside a percentage of the accumulated treasure to obtain one or more Cure Light Wound wands and such which the Rogue can help use. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for you as the DM, because it's a constant drain on the party's funds. Or... 2) The party will hear what the game plan is and simply not adapt for shortcomings in what can be provided for the group, such as Healing. At this point as the DM you'll have to adjust your adventures in certain minor ways so that the game can continue, but that the party is CONSTANTLY reminded from things in play that they're suffering from their choice. If it becomes too much of a problem then as the DM you'll have to step in and see what you'll have to do to accomodate the game. Possibly you might have to introduce an NPC healing class hireling who works for the group but gets paid for it. Or something else, etc. In no way should a player in your game tell YOU, the DM, how to run the game and arrange the party, nor should the player be telling the other players how they should play the game. It's selfish, closed-minded, and... Well, just not nice.
Jenny With The Lantern 09-14-05, 03:57 AM	It sounds like the rogue player wants to determine what the other players do with their characters. I think this is fundamentally wrong, as the PC belongs only to the player that came up with the PC. Even though the rogue player is more experienced than the others, he should be allowing them to make their own mistakes (it sounds like your other players are making some pretty common beginners errors here, like focusing on damage dealing too much and too little on defense); and instead of helping them out, he is detrimental to your group. I say you tell the rogue that the group will find out about their problems sooner or later, and that in-character remarks of 'Gosh, I wish we had some more healing potions' during/after a heavy battle will work better than telling the other players what to do with THEIR characters. (I would be very annoyed if anyone tried that!) Make him show them in character that non-direct damage can be to their advantage (him sneaking in and stealing something instead of killing everyone and getting it) and that whatever comments he has he should be their example (him curing dying party members with healing potions should eventually give them a clue). Do reward him if he does these things (RP XP).
Surprise 09-14-05, 08:45 AM	I think Jenny, Tedly224 and magicchupacabra pretty much nailed it for you, ChilliGod. As to the issue with the cleric choosing the true believer feat from complete divine: if the cleric is choosing to increase his fighting prowess then that decision, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily weaken his faith with Kord. Kord encourages his followers to perform great deats of strength, and just b/c the cleric wants to exhibit that strength through swordplay doesn't mean he should lose his favor with Kord. However, from what I read in your spoiler, if your cleric is starting to role-play his increased desire to kill things, than yes, I believe that taking the True Believer feat should not be available to him. Kord is about competition, not killing. -Surprise
crossbow 09-14-05, 10:49 AM	Chilli, You need to tell the rouge’s player to back down, plain and simple. I understand some of his frustration but trying to tell other players how to play their characters is not the way to go. If they are new, let them figure things out for themselves, it will make them better players in the future. If the sorcerer wants to make things go boom, so be it. The only thing she should really be warned about is that by specializing, she won’t be as useful in every situation. The sorcerer in my game is much the same as yours and now that I have copies of the complete series, he’s looking at taking levels in War Mage. We talked it over and he really wants to go this direction, so I said alright. If that’s what you really want to do, we’ll work it in. He’s also a first time player by the way, three of my six players are. Two more have never played 3rd edition (3.5) before. So far, so good though. As to the cleric, if he’s really drifting that much from his faith, let him know up front that he’s not getting that feat he wants next level. Tell him you really want to see an improvement in his devotion. That or maybe tell him he should stick with the fighter levels from here on out. Either way, it’s his character, not the rouges. There are a lot people that fall from faith. Regardless of what you personally think of the way the players of the sorcerer and the cleric are building their characters, I’d take the player of the rogue aside and talk to him. Tell him that he needs to let them play their characters the way they see fit. If he is really worried about party diversity, there are lots of other options that he and the other party members can take. In fact, he already carries healing potions, as everyone should. Maybe he should look into some wands or other items; he is a rogue after all. If anyone is capable of bringing diversity to the party, he’s the one for it. Just my thoughts on the subject. crossbow
Joe Khol 09-14-05, 11:13 AM	You can and should remain neutral in this, you just need to be more forcefully neutral. Suggest to the Rogue player that the other players can develop their characters any way they want to and while he can certainly offer advice, sulking because they're not doing exactly what he thinks they should is just childish. Tell him that them not having fully optimised characters doesn't increase their chance of dying because if they were you would need to up the challenges a little. You need to help the Cleric player develop his characters direction but if he want's to go cleric/fighter mix rather than full cleric, that is fine (in fact more than fine - just noticed he is a Cleric of Kord!), for the party and roleplay potential (I don't know the 'True Believer' feat so if you do think he will have problems with it, point them out now). The party IC and you OOC can ensure the healing shortage isn't a major issue. The Sorceror player is similar. There is nothing wrong with playing the blaster type but maybe you need to help him look at the none-damaging spells differently. Point out past situations where different spells would have been useful (assuming such situations occur in your games of course!) and ways they can be used. At the end of the day though, it is his choice, not yours (beyond DM rulings) and not the other players (beyond help and advice). A few side points I can't help but comment on; How on earth can the Cleric carry 30 weapons with a Strength of 16? Did you see your 'rule-breaking rules lawyer' Rogue player roll those stats so much better than everyone else?
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 09-14-05, 11:16 AM	The biggest problem I see is this: The party rogue is metagaming. He's making choices in-game because of the mechanics of his fellow player's characters. This is metagaming, plain and simple. Granted, I can not blame him for being worried about the welfare of his party. (as I would be too)...But, taking the observations made at the gaming table and applying them in game is technically cheating. Granted, your Cleric will eventually lose favor with Kord as previously stated by another poster. And your Soceror(ess) is playing the standard "blaster-caster" type...which will cause great regret when a few utility spells could have been handy. Basically, I'd sit down before the next session, either with each player individually or as a group (just the people whom are causing/having problems) and get this out in the open. Otherwise, you risk the possiblity of total party breakdown and disbanding the group (no gaming = no fun)
Drone23 09-14-05, 11:29 AM	I've had this problem in my campaign too. The cleric/wizard player kept trying to tell the other players what to take in feats, skills, spells, etc. Treating the rest of the PCs as if they were his cohorts, even telling them what to do in combat. Finally, another player and myself just flat out told him to stop. Let the other players play their characters. If they want advice, they can ask me (the DM), which still doesn't keep him from butting in once in a while. Strange how no one ever gave him advice on his character seeing as how he has TWO prestige classes with his core classes and was talking about a third... Tell the rogue player to knock it off. Let the others play their characters. If they screw up, then they'll find out soon enough. Or, put the party in situations where ranks in Ride would actually be helpful. The DM should adapt his campaign to the abilities of the PCs, not the other way around. If the cleric/fighter has limited undead turning ability, don't throw powerful undead at them. If the sorcerer likes boom spells, give him plenty to blow up. They can always buy healing potions to counter their lack of healing spells and you should suggest it. I strongly disagree with previous posters about somehow punishing the cleric/fighter to take more levels in fighter than in cleric. Kord is a god of strength. The only other class that better typifies strength is the barbarian. If clerics should be penalized for multiclassing, then they should have put it in the rules. It's through the PC's actions that he should be judged by his deity, not his choice in skills, feats, or class levels. Should a cleric of Erythnul be penalized for taking the Heal skill? A cleric of Hieroneous for taking Intimidate? And isn't it strange how the rogue player has taken the barbarian under his wing even though his multiclass choices make less sense than the cleric/fighter's? With a 12 Dex and 12 Wis, the barbarian would make just as good a cleric than a rogue.
VirgilCaine 09-14-05, 11:54 AM	The sorcerer's problem, so the rogue's player says, focuses far too much—exclusively, even—on spells that deal damage, other than investing in spells that have other uses, such as Color Spray. Doing this will reduce the flexibility of the party and also increase death rate. What can you use Color Spray for besides giving people a magic case of epilepsy for about half a minute? You need to help the Cleric player develop his characters direction but if he want's to go cleric/fighter mix rather than full cleric, that is fine (in fact more than fine - just noticed he is a Cleric of Kord!), Cleric/Fighters of Kord are perfectly natural. I question the Sorceror players competence...I'd choose a low-level area status effect spell over an area damage spell any day. And you definitely need defensive spells--Mage Armor, Shield, Protection from Evil, Blur, Mirror Image, Levitate, Blink, Displacement, Protection from Arrows, Resist Elements...without a couple of these spells, he'll die easily.
Bruunwald 09-14-05, 12:26 PM	You say that both the cleric and the sorcerer are focusing on battle. I wonder if that has anything to do with the encounters you are throwing at them? Could it be that the cleric is boning up on his fighting skills because you are exclusively throwing martial opponents at them? Note that out of a rogue, sorcerer and cleric, the cleric is the best fighting class. I have played fighter/clerics, and yes, of course, you don't advance as quickly with spells, but it's a fine combination in a small group with no dedicated fighter. You could recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster, which will enable the cleric to cast spells he knows at a higher caster level, should he choose to multiclass. Ditto with the sorcerer. If you are throwing nothing but martial enemies at them, who can blame him for wanting to be well-armed. But this is neither here nor there, since the real problem with the group is the gossipy player of the rogue. It's not his business to dictate to the others how they should advance or play their characters, and it's none of his business dicating to you what the results of their playing the way they do will be. You can alter the campaign to suit the group's playing style easily enough. And there are several ways to overcome the missing elements in the party that the rogue is complaining about (such as stocking up on healing potions, as you've said). What you have is a big baby stirring up trouble by pointing out failings in the others that are not failings. I have a feeling they are reacting to the lack of a fighter. If so, kudos for them, shame on the rogue in any case, and please stop listening to him. If he doesn't like it, he can leave.
Phrennzy 09-14-05, 12:30 PM	From your sig: Player 4-CG Human Rogue Lvl 3, wielding dual MW short swords and wearing chain shirt. Focuses on sneak attacks. Slightly overpowered, IMO. Acts as the party rogue, as well as a rule-breaking rules lawyer. Roleplay is very good, giving lots of challenges to respond in an IC way. Stats- Str 15, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14 I'm assuming it is this guy. Yeah. Y'know, I don't like that he is using two weapons. I think he should stay in the back and just plunk away with his bow. He should take all bow type feats, because the role of the rogue isn't to be a front line fighter, it's to open locks, bypass traps, and get sneak attacks. He should be staying out of combat because we'll need him alive and healthy to disarm the traps. So he'll need to ditch his swords - he should be weilding a dagger if he ever finds himself in melee - which should be rare. He also needs to max out his decipher script, and his forgery, because he's who we'll go to for fake documents. I don't like his armor either. Chain Shirt? C'mon! Far too noisy. He should be wearing leather armor, and should get it enchanted with hiding enchantments. He should also save up for a cloak and boots of elvenkind. Please pass this on to the rogue player. If he continues to not follow my advice, I will be forced to have the cleric withhold healing because he'll have to cast Find Traps, and the sorcerer will be forced to use only damaging spells to make up for the lack of sneak attacks. Thanks, Chili
Sir Knight 09-14-05, 12:45 PM	I fail to see what the problem actually is and why it is the Rogue's business. The current group I'm running a game for is: Human Fighter 6 Human Monk 6 Half-Orc Barbarian 6 Elf Wizard (Conjurer) 6 Elf Rogue/Wizard/Invisible Blade 4/1/1 They purchase healing potions and the Rogue uses a wand of cure light wounds via Use Magical Device checks. It works just fine for our group. They do so much damage that they don't need healing some times. It seems to me that those two characters are doing just fine. The Cleric has a neat RP thing going on and so what if he doesn't focus on being a walking medical center for the party? And the other character is a SORCERER! He gets like three spells, of course he is going to focus on the most bang for the buck he can get. I am just lost... what is the real problem? I think it is with the Rogue...
UndeadMouse 09-14-05, 01:02 PM	you should talk to the rogue and tell him that the skill/feat/spell choices of the other players are thier choice. if he has a problem with it he can leave the group or remedy the problem with his own character (like giving out some of his healing potions). if he persists in being immature and a control freak, then just kick him out. In my last campaign I had 2 controllers. the first played a rogue (hmm... maybe rogues have something to do with the problem) and played by the rules, but he was rude to the other players. though he did know how to play well, I kicked him out. correction: I told him that he could fix his additude or leave. he chose to leave the second controller played a super-powerful monk with no gear at all. I allowed his 2-3 level increase because the rest of the party had things like a staff of fire and most had rings of invisibility, so the higher level balanced nicely. he wasn't a controller per say, but he was a rule breaker, and a dice jesus (one session he made a critical hit about 10 times out of 15 attacks and dropped 95% of the creatures he hit on the first attack). he left because his scedule changed and coulden't make it anymore.
TheChilliGod 09-14-05, 03:41 PM	How on earth can the Cleric carry 30 weapons with a Strength of 16? Did you see your 'rule-breaking rules lawyer' Rogue player roll those stats so much better than everyone else? The cleric's on a heavy load. Lets say that about half of the weapons are small-sized. Yeah, the cleric takes every weapon from every last kobold. And no I did not see the rogue actually roll his stats. I saw everyone else's rolls, however. And isn't it strange how the rogue player has taken the barbarian under his wing even though his multiclass choices make less sense than the cleric/fighter's? With a 12 Dex and 12 Wis, the barbarian would make just as good a cleric than a rogue. Eh, it was more of a roleplaying decision on the Barbarian's player's part than any form of powergaming. Somehow, though, the rogue's player is not making a point about that. Probably because of the 'flexibility' of the rogue class, I dunno. What can you use Color Spray for besides giving people a magic case of epilepsy for about half a minute? Dunno. Probably combines with sneak attacks and the fact that I am still throwing 1 HD enemies at them. You say that both the cleric and the sorcerer are focusing on battle. I wonder if that has anything to do with the encounters you are throwing at them? Could it be that the cleric is boning up on his fighting skills because you are exclusively throwing martial opponents at them? Note that out of a rogue, sorcerer and cleric, the cleric is the best fighting class. I have played fighter/clerics, and yes, of course, you don't advance as quickly with spells, but it's a fine combination in a small group with no dedicated fighter. You could recommend the feat Practiced Spellcaster, which will enable the cleric to cast spells he knows at a higher caster level, should he choose to multiclass. Ditto with the sorcerer. If you are throwing nothing but martial enemies at them, who can blame him for wanting to be well-armed. Okay, I guess I am at fault there. I do tend towards straight-out fighting. I do attempt at least a few RP encounters here and there, however. The most recent one was ended by a stabbity from the rogue. And the other two PC's that are not part of this argument are fighting classes, so there is no lack of damaging potential. I am just lost... what is the real problem? I think it is with the Rogue... Judging by the other posts, you're probably right. Oh yes, the cleric's taking True Believer only so he can get the Pious Templar prestige class. He said that to me straight out. I forgot to mention that. Okay, based on these comments, I will have a talk with the sorcerer's and cleric's players about their character choices, and tell them that their characters are their characters. I'll also ask the rogue's player to just not push his advice to the point where it gets argumentative. After a bit of experimentation, finding out through trial and error what the party's strengths and weaknesses are, and accommodating for them would seem like a good idea to me. Okay, I guess if any of you still feel like giving advice, I'm open.
scott644 09-14-05, 04:16 PM	Let me see if I get this right... the overpowered combat rogue who happens to also be a rules-breaking rules-lawyer, is trying to structure the party in a way that would actually make his character shine more than the rest? Tell the munchkin to stuff a sock in it.
20goingon1232 09-14-05, 04:47 PM	Other than saying the Rogue needs a kick in the pants, I can't tell you what else to do. I have a dictator like that in one of my groups. The next time he does it to me, I plan to tell him in the most aggressive and foul-mouthed way possible (and my friends know i don't usually swear) to shut up.
FrozenChrono 09-14-05, 04:51 PM	The rouge is trying to optimize his party. Nothing wrong with wanting to play that type of a game but it's not for everyone, especially beginners. Sounds like this group isn't big on optimizing which is no big deal. I agree with most of the prior posters, if they ask for advice he can give it, otherwise leave it alone they need to do things their own way. Keep the encounters against things they can handle frequent but throw in things they aren't prepairing for every once in a while as little hints. "hm (sorc) having a spell with a will save would have been handy against all those rogues with evasion and a high ref save don't you think?" BTW: You have a paladin, and if the cleric/fighter takes levels in cleric every once in a while healing shouldn't be too difficult for both of them to handle depending on the type of game you're running.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-14-05, 06:38 PM	I can see the Rogue's point, he wants a balanced party, nothing wrong with that. However, when he starts to tell the other players how to play their characters he's gone too far. It sounds like the other players want to play a combat cleric and a boom mage, hardly uncommon characters nor under-powered. The rogue should talk to other players (hopefully with you present to contain things) that he is worried about lack of healing and lack of arcane flexibility. The lack of higher level healing spells can be offset if the party is prepared to part with gold for wands (90 gp/charge for cure moderate up to 420 gp/charge for cure critical) and the like. This amount is not insignificant at medium to high levels. As another poster suggested the Rogue needs to step up with max ranks in Use Magic Device himself and get some scrolls of the utility spells that he thinks might be needed; again the party has to be prepared to part with some coin to go this route. If the other players still want to play those types of characters fine let them, now you have to make your decision as DM, do you alter the encounters to compensate for lack of a full-time cleric and the extra gold spent on potions and scrolls or not.
VirgilCaine 09-14-05, 06:42 PM	Dunno. Probably combines with sneak attacks and the fact that I am still throwing 1 HD enemies at them. Tell the Rogue to note that any spell that allows you to sneak attack someone, also pretty much takes them out of the fight...making sneak attacks pretty pointless.
bob_the_great 09-14-05, 07:51 PM	never let one of your players bully a newbie. you want them to enjoy the game, not say "screw it, this is no fun." tell the rogue that it won't be an optimized party, and that he can deal with it. reassure him that the game won't require an optimized party. if he can't enjoy a game like this remove the stick from up his bum let them explore the game for themselves, not be shown the game by someone else.
TheChilliGod 09-15-05, 02:03 AM	BTW: You have a paladin, and if the cleric/fighter takes levels in cleric every once in a while healing shouldn't be too difficult for both of them to handle depending on the type of game you're running. The cleric's player has always said that he's going to take levels of cleric : fighter on a 2 : 1 ratio. And the paladin's healing capability, at this moment, borders on the negligible. (9 hp a day doesn't seem to be cutting it recently) --- Okay, here are the results of the discussion I have had. The sorcerer's player, who is getting positively tired of the rogue's player's... shall we say constant nudging, has just given in and asked me to choose his spell for 3rd level. The rogue's player, at the time I was about to choose, persuaded me to go with his second-favored spell of the level, Ray of Enfeeblement. The sorcerer's player has also given in on skill points. The cleric's player has agreed with me that his cleric may be straying from the divine faith RP-wise, but is sticking to his guns for cleric/fighter. I'm not pushing him to do otherwise. The rogue's player, as I am typing this, is only pushing his point further. Mostly aimed at the cleric's player because he hasn't given in yet. "He's NEVER going to use all those weapons, what's the point?" "Doesn't he know he gets access to Bull's Strength at level 3?" "It will be bad... cleric's need to be consistent. I've gotta just stop caring now." "I'm gonna have my nice secret stock of potions and I'll be fine, he can do what he wants, just let him. I don't care." "I could just buy wands of curing, but I'll let him realize his errors instead of covering for him." "Look, I'm trying to look after MY hide while letting them realize they've made mistakes." "AND YOU'RE TELLING ME TO HAVE TEAMWORK?!? I'M the only one thinking about it here!" I think I've found my problem. :P
scott644 09-15-05, 07:48 AM	Yup, the munchkin is a control freak. That's your problem.
20goingon1232 09-15-05, 05:01 PM	The cleric's player has always said that he's going to take levels of cleric : fighter on a 2 : 1 ratio. And the paladin's healing capability, at this moment, borders on the negligible. (9 hp a day doesn't seem to be cutting it recently) --- Okay, here are the results of the discussion I have had. The sorcerer's player, who is getting positively tired of the rogue's player's... shall we say constant nudging, has just given in and asked me to choose his spell for 3rd level. The rogue's player, at the time I was about to choose, persuaded me to go with his second-favored spell of the level, Ray of Enfeeblement. The sorcerer's player has also given in on skill points. The cleric's player has agreed with me that his cleric may be straying from the divine faith RP-wise, but is sticking to his guns for cleric/fighter. I'm not pushing him to do otherwise. The rogue's player, as I am typing this, is only pushing his point further. Mostly aimed at the cleric's player because he hasn't given in yet. "He's NEVER going to use all those weapons, what's the point?" "Doesn't he know he gets access to Bull's Strength at level 3?" "It will be bad... cleric's need to be consistent. I've gotta just stop caring now." "I'm gonna have my nice secret stock of potions and I'll be fine, he can do what he wants, just let him. I don't care." "I could just buy wands of curing, but I'll let him realize his errors instead of covering for him." "Look, I'm trying to look after MY hide while letting them realize they've made mistakes." "AND YOU'RE TELLING ME TO HAVE TEAMWORK?!? I'M the only one thinking about it here!" I think I've found my problem. :P Or you could have heeded any of the dozen other people that have told you your problem ;)
gerald_toronto 09-15-05, 06:05 PM	Your sorcerer will be quiting your game soon. If the sorcerer cannot even choose his/her own spells and skills what's the point in having his own character? Just because the Rogue may be the most experienced player in your game doesn't make him right nor does it make him the "best" player in your game. Tell him to play the selfish rogue he's threatening to play and everyone else will suddenly have a lot more fun playing your game. If you don't get this in hand soon I suspect your game will collapse and people will quit.
Ut-Napishtim 09-15-05, 09:43 PM	Your sorcerer will be quiting your game soon. If the sorcerer cannot even choose his/her own spells and skills what's the point in having his own character? Yeah, not picking your own spells and skills is a sure sign that this dude's fed up and is tossing his hands up in the air with a: Fine, you pick them then. A couple years from now he'll be saying: Yeah, I tried D&D once and it was stupid. The freakin' nerds are so obsessed with it they have you make up what they call a 'character' and then complain when you don't make it what they tell you to. What a bunch of losers.
20goingon1232 09-15-05, 10:00 PM	Yeah, not picking your own spells and skills is a sure sign that this dude's fed up and is tossing his hands up in the air with a: Fine, you pick them then. A couple years from now he'll be saying: Yeah, I tried D&D once and it was stupid. The freakin' nerds are so obsessed with it they have you make up what they call a 'character' and then complain when you don't make it what they tell you to. What a bunch of losers. I'd third that sentiment. It is time to show that DnD is not about control freak nerds: ChilliGod, for the honour and the good name of DnD players/DMs everywhere, you are charged with the task of openly and publicly denouncing the rogue and to send him packing. For good measure, you are to allow the sorceror to redo his/her last level up to conform to what he/she wants.
TheChilliGod 09-15-05, 10:46 PM	Or you could have heeded any of the dozen other people that have told you your problem ;) Yeah, That too. :P ChilliGod, for the honour and the good name of DnD players/DMs everywhere, you are charged with the task of openly and publicly denouncing the rogue and to send him packing. For good measure, you are to allow the sorceror to redo his/her last level up to conform to what he/she wants. That'll be difficult. The guy has a short fuse, and is third national in his division at Tae Quon Do. But the harder thing of it would be to do it publicly, since we haven't got any medium for that sort of announcement. And since a session hasn't passed yet from the first post, the sorcerer's level-up changes are still underway. Okay, here's the development: While there's no change in opinion with the sorcerer's and cleric's players, the rogue's player has agreed to do with whatever power he has in him to just shut his gob when talking to other players about their characters, under threat of expulsion from the group. (Not an easy thing to do, mind you, considering all of my players have also been my friends for at least 1 year, and doing this will likely transfer feelings over to the rogue's player's campaign, which I'm in) However, he is not stopping talking to me about it, and telling me to do his dirty work for him. Of course, I'm not going to do any of that, and the rogue's player is now under oath and promise to not say a word. But still, listening to him yap on to me about how... un-optimized the cleric is, it's starting to wear on me nerves. Next time he starts on me, he's in for a few words you don't normally hear over MSN. I think i'll use that quote I saw earlier on the forums about raping his mouth-hole with a chainsaw. Also, the sorcerer got his way with Burning Hands. That's at least a small comfort for the sorcerer's player, IMO, since now he has everything he wants; skills, feats, spells, all of it. Nothing has changed in way of the cleric's player, however, due to being out of contact for a while. Well, the charge you've placed on me is basically half-done already. All I need to do now is wait for an opportunity to do the other half...
20goingon1232 09-15-05, 11:33 PM	Yeah, That too. :P That'll be difficult. The guy has a short fuse, and is third national in his division at Tae Quon Do. But the harder thing of it would be to do it publicly, since we haven't got any medium for that sort of announcement. And since a session hasn't passed yet from the first post, the sorcerer's level-up changes are still underway. Okay, here's the development: While there's no change in opinion with the sorcerer's and cleric's players, the rogue's player has agreed to do with whatever power he has in him to just shut his gob when talking to other players about their characters, under threat of expulsion from the group. (Not an easy thing to do, mind you, considering all of my players have also been my friends for at least 1 year, and doing this will likely transfer feelings over to the rogue's player's campaign, which I'm in) However, he is not stopping talking to me about it, and telling me to do his dirty work for him. Of course, I'm not going to do any of that, and the rogue's player is now under oath and promise to not say a word. But still, listening to him yap on to me about how... un-optimized the cleric is, it's starting to wear on me nerves. Next time he starts on me, he's in for a few words you don't normally hear over MSN. I think i'll use that quote I saw earlier on the forums about raping his mouth-hole with a chainsaw. Also, the sorcerer got his way with Burning Hands. That's at least a small comfort for the sorcerer's player, IMO, since now he has everything he wants; skills, feats, spells, all of it. Nothing has changed in way of the cleric's player, however, due to being out of contact for a while. Well, the charge you've placed on me is basically half-done already. All I need to do now is wait for an opportunity to do the other half... Who said anything about MSN? I'd get everyone together for the next session. The second the rogue opens his mouth, scream at him and order him out. That's it. Even if it is just 2 seconds into the session, kick him out. In front of everyone. Then continue the session with the remaining players. You have more than enough for that. I don't care if he is Grandmaster Whatever himself. I'd tell him off and kick him out. In fact, if he is a martial artist, he should know better than to have a short fuse and open his mouth inappropriately. He is trained in restraint. In my mind, he is no martial artist. He is a thug. Unless you are one yourself or in constant need of the services of one, that is one type of acquaintance you do NOT need.