Arm Wrestling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arm Wrestling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Great Alchemist
05-20-06, 09:00 PM I was in a campaign a while ago that had 3 players. While one of the players was handling some private stuff with the GM, the other player and I decided to play chess in game. We rolled and added just our Intelligence bonuses to the rolls, she beat me 3 times with +4 vs +3.

So, I challenge her character to an arm wrestling match, which I figure gives my character the advantage with a 14 Strength against a 9 Strength. By this point the GM was watching. We rolled our d20's and she beat me once again, the GM then laughed at me. I said "wait a second, that's like Laura (the other character's player) beating me in an arm wrestling match." The GM got a puzzles look on his face, looked at our attributes, and said that I was right. The wondered what to do to deal with the problem here. he decided it wasn't worth the effort.

Now, that I am going to run a game, I wondered what I might do about this problem. That a character with a Strength of 9 can beat a character with a Strength of 14 in an arm wrestling match about 35% of the time when in real life it would be virtually impossible for the Strength 9 person to win once.

I was thinking about making direct tests of attribute vs attribute (like arm wresting for Strength, hand slapping games for Dexterity, etc.) use 1d6 instead of 1d20. Then a 3 point difference would become very significant.
Blazinghand
05-20-06, 09:07 PM Here's an idea: Make arm wrestling am oppposed grapple check. In this case, someone trained to fight and use their strength and leverage effectively has an advantage over some poor sap who decided to be a mage. This way, BaB, Size and Improved Grapple are factored in along with strength.
feartheinvinceblehamster
05-20-06, 09:37 PM Obviously, you've underestimated the ability to-and this is the scientific term-cheat. I know, because I've seen a near-60 year old schoolteacher beat a very fit 12 year old in an armwrestling match.
slimgoodbody
05-20-06, 10:04 PM Obviously, you've underestimated the ability to-and this is the scientific term-cheat. I know, because I've seen a near-60 year old schoolteacher beat a very fit 12 year old in an armwrestling match.

Fit or not, no 12 year old is going to beat a 60 year old unless the 60 year old is an invalid and the 12 year old is like that German Superbaby with muscles like Colossus.
shadowfox628
05-20-06, 10:10 PM Well, theoretically, if the person with the Str of 9 had a higher Con modifier, it would be possible...

However, the Opposed Grapple Check thing sounds like a good idea.
Dauntless
05-20-06, 10:43 PM Actually arm wrestling is used as an example where you would NOT roll, simply compare the scores. (Of course now I can't remember the page number off hand...)
CryoSilver
05-20-06, 10:52 PM Same page as where they explain the difference b/t a check and skill.

In any case, why would you roll anything? The stronger character will win. It's that simple. Arm wrestling is Strength vs Strength.

In some weird cases, maybe it's otherwise, but in a contest of Str 9 vs Str 14, Str 14 wins.
zodiki
05-20-06, 10:58 PM Opposed d20 checks suffer from granularity - in most cases this adds to teh fun of the game - in other cases it destroys believability.

A simple way to reduce the wild distibution is to make the opposed roll using 2d10 or 3d6 instead. Or you could try an opposed check ala white wolf. Each player gets to roll 1 d10 for each positive point of strength modifier his character posesses. If they get a 7 or more - its a success. Whoever gets the most successes wins the match. An equal number of successes by each player indicates a draw and they roll again. To increase the luck factor you can make a 1 rolled negate a success, and a 10 rolled count as two successes.
ashcat_lt
05-21-06, 01:05 AM You could also set a target number. Let's say a mulitple of 15 (Average DC) like 75 (5 rounds worth). Player's roll 1d20+Str for each "round" and total up all of their rounds. First one to the target wins.

Basically, the more dice they roll, the more the advantage will tend toward the higher stat mod.

On the other hand, wouldn't you expect a 11 to have a somewhat better than 50/50 chance (not near 100) of winning against a 10? Maybe it would be best to roll 1d20+Str Score.
xver
05-21-06, 01:13 AM Ok, here's how I'd run an arm wrestling match in DnD. You roll opposed STR checks, if you win, you move the other person's arm towards the table, but you don't win outright. Then you roll again, if you win again, you move their arm forward. If you loose, they struggle their way back up to straight. I'd say it takes three (or two for a faster match) consecutive wins to pin the other person.

This way, it's still possible for a lower score to win, but less likely. It also adds to the depth of the contest. If one character wins all the rolls first try, they simply slam down thier opponant's arm. If it goes one way and then the other for a while, it's a close match with arms moving this way and that as the players struggle to get the upper hand.

I'd handle most IC gaming in a similar way. A single check isn't really the best way to handle something that might take a bit of time. For a chess game, I'd especially want to have more than one roll. It seems to better reflect the long lenght of the average game.
Insane Pixie
05-21-06, 01:49 AM You could easily create a table for this (using the more realistic d6+Strength modifier method). Difference represents the difference between your roll and your opponent's. Rolls continue until one competitor is victorious.

Table: Arm Wrestling

Difference Result
+5 or higher Opponent's arm slammed to the table.
+3 or higher Opponent's arm is falling closer to table; +2 bonus on next roll.
+1 or higher Opponent's arm slightly erred; +1 bonus on next roll.
0. No change.
-1 or lower Your opponent shows slight power over you; -1 penalty on next roll.
-3 or lower Your opponent pushes your arm nearly to the table; -2 penalty on next roll.
-5 or lower Your arm is slammed to the table.
industrygothica
05-21-06, 07:47 AM What about this:

Set a target number, say 20.

PC's make opposed STR checks. The loser's result is subtracted from the winner's result and recorded.

PC's roll again, as above, recording the result.

The first PC to reach the target number wins.

If the match goes on for a number of rounds greater than a combatant's constitution score, he will have to succeed at a DC 10 fortitude save to continue the match. The DC increases by +1 each round until the match is over. Failure indicates an immediate loss, as the PC is just too tired to continue (and may suffer a +2 penalty to strength related rolls involving that arm until he can rest it uninterrupted for 1 minute).

There may also be situations where a particularly clever PC might be entitled to a bluff check at the start of the match to gain a quick advantage over his opponent.
Bulletproof_Condom
05-21-06, 08:19 AM I wrote a short set of mechanics for arm wrestling a few months ago.

Step 1: Place a pencil on a line on the battlemat.
Step 2: Place each participant's miniature on the mat on either side of the pencil, ten squares away, depending on how long you want the struggle to go on.
Step 3: Have the participants make opposed Strength checks. The winner gets to move the pencil one square towards his opponent's mini. In this case a tie means nobody advances.
Step 4: Repeat step 3 until the pencil reaches a mini.
Whoever manages to move the pencil to his opponent's mini wins the contest.

I'm really pleased with this mechanic for a few reasons: 1) It's exciting. It takes a contest that could be a simple opposed Strength check and inflates it to the scale of a combat encounter with a really satisfying visual. Players can get behind it, cheer, boo, celebrate, etc.
2) It retains the simplicity of a d20 roll without unrealistically favoring luck. I mean, a commoner with a Strength of 3 does have a slim chance of beating a barbarian with a Strength of 18 in a single opposed Strength check. Luck really makes very little difference in something like an arm wrestling match, so chances are, the guy with the higher Strength is going to win.
3) It's really easy to implement. Everybody has pencils, the DMG comes with a battlemat, and even if you don't have minis you can get lego figures or army men or opposing cans of soda.
4) It's so generic, you could apply it to just about anything. Change it to Dex and call it a footrace. Change it to Int and say it's a game of chess (-4 if you don't know the rules). Change it to Spot and say it's Competitive Where's Waldo.
5) Arm wrestling is mas macho.
Ryusage
05-21-06, 11:24 AM This specific example is in either the DMG or the PHB... cant remember which.. it was in a section about whether a roll is necessary or not or something. It stated tha, for example, in an arm-wrestling match, the person with the highest strength automatically wins. In the case of a tie in the strength ability, you roll for the victor.
Escef
05-21-06, 01:38 PM My ruling would be that the stronger character wins automatically, with ties broken by CON. The only exceptions I'd make to this would be if characters had been physically taxed that day.
industrygothica
05-21-06, 03:25 PM "When two characters arm wrestle, for example, the stronger character simply wins. In the case of identical scores, roll a die."

So, if you want the rules as written, there you go. Personally, I like a little more flavor to my games and would likely go with one of the above options; I think that most players would as well (except for the one with the highest strength score of course).
The Colonel
05-21-06, 03:52 PM The opposed grapple is probably a good idea ... arm wrestling is not simply about strength, there really is a strong element of wrestling. And that is definitely not all about strength.
Granted the stronger wrestler is at a serious advantage, but someone who knows what they are doing can still fight above their weight.
Pandaemoni
05-21-06, 04:31 PM So, if you want the rules as written, there you go. Personally, I like a little more flavor to my games and would likely go with one of the above options; I think that most players would as well (except for the one with the highest strength score of course).

I also disagree with the PHB. Arm Wrestling is not the most nuanced competition that e'er existed, but it's not just "push against the other guy's arm--strongest person always wins" (unless you've never learned how to arm wrestle properly).

There is some technique that can be applied. Speed and leverage are more important than strength in many matches.

See: http://www.eiyc.com/technique.htm

In addition, you need not "press" against your opponent's arm for the entire match. You can curl your arm towards your body (you won't come any closer to winning doing this, but this so-called "backpressure" move can "hold" your arm in its present position by relying on your bicep...if your opponent "presses" he'll be relying on his pectoralis minor muscles and triceps primarily). Since many people have a stronger bicep than minor pectoris and tricep, your bicep can often be stable against a press and your opponent will tire a bit pressing against you. When your bicep starts to tire, you then start pressing. If your opponent is still doing the same, you are now pressing against a more fatigued opponent.

So you can vary which muscles are under strain from moment to moment, to increase your chance of winning.

Has *no one* see the Sylvester Stallone opus Over the Top???? :shocked: :D
Ryusage
05-21-06, 04:38 PM so make arm wrestling a skill.
Pandaemoni
05-21-06, 04:54 PM so make arm wrestling a skill.

I think that's what the opposed strength check effectively does...except that both players are using the skill untrained. :) (Because who would throw skill points into it?)
DaMullet
05-21-06, 05:26 PM That old farmer with the MASSIVE biceps from hoeing his garden all the time who hangs around the bar hoping to earn a bit of coin by throwing PCs to the table.
Atirakis
05-21-06, 05:38 PM How much REAL arm wrestling have you guys done? I have beat many many people stronger than me at arm wrestling. Its all about technique, timing, leverage and how strong your WRISTS are, not how much muscle you have in your arm. I dont know what sytem would work best, but I would have to say that grappling comes closest to an accurate depection of what arm wrestling is all about. Just remember arm wrestling is not about strenght, sure it helps to not be a total wimp, but you can win with far less strength than your opponent if your technique is better than his.
Ryusage
05-21-06, 05:44 PM I win arm wrestles by making my opponent scream "mercy!" when I pull his wrist back :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh:
dengarbountyhunter
05-21-06, 05:49 PM Also, as most of us see an arm-wrestling match in a bar with people around, can the mood of the crowd toward the players give moral bonuses/penalties (like that gladiator match thing in Complete Warrior)? And can a bard with a high Charisma can intimidate his enemy to have a higher chance of beating him?

Arm-wrestling is DEFINITLY not only a matter of strength.
TheRubberBandit
05-21-06, 06:40 PM Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought.

One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try.

As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one.
LCD2YOU
05-21-06, 06:57 PM Roll 2d10 and add them together.

That way the average rolls of 10/11 for both players the higher stats win.

Or in pure physical, non-cheating environments, just add 10.
Bulletproof_Condom
05-21-06, 07:11 PM When two characters arm wrestle, for example, the stronger character simply wins.Yeah, but the pencil thing gives basically the same results, but there's a lot more room for roleplay.
Atirakis
05-21-06, 10:33 PM Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought.

One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try.

As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one.
Are you really that dumb? You dont know how to twist your wrist and gain a tactical advantage in an arm wrestling match? Or how about length of ones forearm? That doesnt provide leverage? Why dont YOU put some THOUGHT into your posts before just posting any tripe you feel like spouting off.
Pandaemoni
05-22-06, 01:06 AM Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought.

One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try.

As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one.

Wow, way to get overly belligerent on such a minor topic.

As for your "commoner with a 3 strength" hypothetical--how about even more thought? Under the RAW, a commoner with a 3 charisma *and* dexterity who was raised by wolves and who's never even seen a piano can roll a good Perform (keyboards) check, untrained, and "outperform" a 5th level bard with all 18's as his stats who has maxed out his ranks in that skill. That's not very realistic either.

Arm wrestling is not the simple "strongest man wins" competition you think it to be. While I agree it is unrealistic for a man with a 3 strength to beat one with an 18...that's the commoner playing piano example. A quick perusal of the internet will show that arm wrestling does have some amount of technique to it...if nothing else think about this:

1. People with longer arms gain more leverage, and are more likely to win such a contest. Being taller should, if we want realism, give you a significant advantage over the halfling, even if your strengths are equal, because the mechanical advantage of the longer lever will increase your effective strength. It's the same principle that's used in creating the grappling system's "Special Size Modifier."

2. What is "strength?" There are more than 600 musles in a hiuman body, as we all develop them to different extents (people even tend to have somewhat greater strength in their primary hand and arm than in their off-hand and arm--so a left-handed player should be at a disadvantage in a right handed arm-wrestling competition, if e wanted realism). An "18" strength (or any other value) is surely some sort of average over the whole body. It's entirely possible that a person with a 17 strength might have a slightly stronger tricep and minor pectoral musles than one with an 18.

3. The PHB apparently says that you roll to determine a winner when two opponents have equal strength. Under your view, why not call BS on that? Surely if two opponents have equal strenth, you simply too to their constitutions. Whoever have the lower constitution tires first and loses.

4. Despite your objection, even a cursory internet search does show some level of technique being involved in arm wrestling. Top rolls, shoulder rolls, hooks, backpressure, locking the arm and assuming proper foot positioning are all discussed. Most of the techniques have to do with increasing leverage or with using other muscle groups as a way of delaying your own fatigue and forcing your opponent to wear himself out.

You may think that backpressure and the like are "cheating", but I'm not certain who set that rule. This site (http://www.nycarms.com/Directory_Links/Review.htm) suggests that backpressure is not considered cheating among professional arm wrestlers (and note that the site talks about the "technique" and "experience" of the competitors factoring into matches in a many places). So it's not really clear what you mean by "cheating."

Everyone is free to adopt whatever rule they like in-game, since arm wreslting only comes up on a lark, but don't come in here with the overweening attitude of "Oh the fools haven't put any *thought* into it, unlike me," especially without explaining why your arm wrestling credentials are better than those of the other posters (or of professional arm wrestlers, for that matter).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Great Alchemist 05-20-06, 09:00 PM	I was in a campaign a while ago that had 3 players. While one of the players was handling some private stuff with the GM, the other player and I decided to play chess in game. We rolled and added just our Intelligence bonuses to the rolls, she beat me 3 times with +4 vs +3. So, I challenge her character to an arm wrestling match, which I figure gives my character the advantage with a 14 Strength against a 9 Strength. By this point the GM was watching. We rolled our d20's and she beat me once again, the GM then laughed at me. I said "wait a second, that's like Laura (the other character's player) beating me in an arm wrestling match." The GM got a puzzles look on his face, looked at our attributes, and said that I was right. The wondered what to do to deal with the problem here. he decided it wasn't worth the effort. Now, that I am going to run a game, I wondered what I might do about this problem. That a character with a Strength of 9 can beat a character with a Strength of 14 in an arm wrestling match about 35% of the time when in real life it would be virtually impossible for the Strength 9 person to win once. I was thinking about making direct tests of attribute vs attribute (like arm wresting for Strength, hand slapping games for Dexterity, etc.) use 1d6 instead of 1d20. Then a 3 point difference would become very significant.
Blazinghand 05-20-06, 09:07 PM	Here's an idea: Make arm wrestling am oppposed grapple check. In this case, someone trained to fight and use their strength and leverage effectively has an advantage over some poor sap who decided to be a mage. This way, BaB, Size and Improved Grapple are factored in along with strength.
feartheinvinceblehamster 05-20-06, 09:37 PM	Obviously, you've underestimated the ability to-and this is the scientific term-cheat. I know, because I've seen a near-60 year old schoolteacher beat a very fit 12 year old in an armwrestling match.
slimgoodbody 05-20-06, 10:04 PM	Obviously, you've underestimated the ability to-and this is the scientific term-cheat. I know, because I've seen a near-60 year old schoolteacher beat a very fit 12 year old in an armwrestling match. Fit or not, no 12 year old is going to beat a 60 year old unless the 60 year old is an invalid and the 12 year old is like that German Superbaby with muscles like Colossus.
shadowfox628 05-20-06, 10:10 PM	Well, theoretically, if the person with the Str of 9 had a higher Con modifier, it would be possible... However, the Opposed Grapple Check thing sounds like a good idea.
Dauntless 05-20-06, 10:43 PM	Actually arm wrestling is used as an example where you would NOT roll, simply compare the scores. (Of course now I can't remember the page number off hand...)
CryoSilver 05-20-06, 10:52 PM	Same page as where they explain the difference b/t a check and skill. In any case, why would you roll anything? The stronger character will win. It's that simple. Arm wrestling is Strength vs Strength. In some weird cases, maybe it's otherwise, but in a contest of Str 9 vs Str 14, Str 14 wins.
zodiki 05-20-06, 10:58 PM	Opposed d20 checks suffer from granularity - in most cases this adds to teh fun of the game - in other cases it destroys believability. A simple way to reduce the wild distibution is to make the opposed roll using 2d10 or 3d6 instead. Or you could try an opposed check ala white wolf. Each player gets to roll 1 d10 for each positive point of strength modifier his character posesses. If they get a 7 or more - its a success. Whoever gets the most successes wins the match. An equal number of successes by each player indicates a draw and they roll again. To increase the luck factor you can make a 1 rolled negate a success, and a 10 rolled count as two successes.
ashcat_lt 05-21-06, 01:05 AM	You could also set a target number. Let's say a mulitple of 15 (Average DC) like 75 (5 rounds worth). Player's roll 1d20+Str for each "round" and total up all of their rounds. First one to the target wins. Basically, the more dice they roll, the more the advantage will tend toward the higher stat mod. On the other hand, wouldn't you expect a 11 to have a somewhat better than 50/50 chance (not near 100) of winning against a 10? Maybe it would be best to roll 1d20+Str Score.
xver 05-21-06, 01:13 AM	Ok, here's how I'd run an arm wrestling match in DnD. You roll opposed STR checks, if you win, you move the other person's arm towards the table, but you don't win outright. Then you roll again, if you win again, you move their arm forward. If you loose, they struggle their way back up to straight. I'd say it takes three (or two for a faster match) consecutive wins to pin the other person. This way, it's still possible for a lower score to win, but less likely. It also adds to the depth of the contest. If one character wins all the rolls first try, they simply slam down thier opponant's arm. If it goes one way and then the other for a while, it's a close match with arms moving this way and that as the players struggle to get the upper hand. I'd handle most IC gaming in a similar way. A single check isn't really the best way to handle something that might take a bit of time. For a chess game, I'd especially want to have more than one roll. It seems to better reflect the long lenght of the average game.
Insane Pixie 05-21-06, 01:49 AM	You could easily create a table for this (using the more realistic d6+Strength modifier method). Difference represents the difference between your roll and your opponent's. Rolls continue until one competitor is victorious. Table: Arm Wrestling Difference Result +5 or higher Opponent's arm slammed to the table. +3 or higher Opponent's arm is falling closer to table; +2 bonus on next roll. +1 or higher Opponent's arm slightly erred; +1 bonus on next roll. 0. No change. -1 or lower Your opponent shows slight power over you; -1 penalty on next roll. -3 or lower Your opponent pushes your arm nearly to the table; -2 penalty on next roll. -5 or lower Your arm is slammed to the table.
industrygothica 05-21-06, 07:47 AM	What about this: Set a target number, say 20. PC's make opposed STR checks. The loser's result is subtracted from the winner's result and recorded. PC's roll again, as above, recording the result. The first PC to reach the target number wins. If the match goes on for a number of rounds greater than a combatant's constitution score, he will have to succeed at a DC 10 fortitude save to continue the match. The DC increases by +1 each round until the match is over. Failure indicates an immediate loss, as the PC is just too tired to continue (and may suffer a +2 penalty to strength related rolls involving that arm until he can rest it uninterrupted for 1 minute). There may also be situations where a particularly clever PC might be entitled to a bluff check at the start of the match to gain a quick advantage over his opponent.
Bulletproof_Condom 05-21-06, 08:19 AM	I wrote a short set of mechanics for arm wrestling a few months ago. Step 1: Place a pencil on a line on the battlemat. Step 2: Place each participant's miniature on the mat on either side of the pencil, ten squares away, depending on how long you want the struggle to go on. Step 3: Have the participants make opposed Strength checks. The winner gets to move the pencil one square towards his opponent's mini. In this case a tie means nobody advances. Step 4: Repeat step 3 until the pencil reaches a mini. Whoever manages to move the pencil to his opponent's mini wins the contest. I'm really pleased with this mechanic for a few reasons: 1) It's exciting. It takes a contest that could be a simple opposed Strength check and inflates it to the scale of a combat encounter with a really satisfying visual. Players can get behind it, cheer, boo, celebrate, etc. 2) It retains the simplicity of a d20 roll without unrealistically favoring luck. I mean, a commoner with a Strength of 3 does have a slim chance of beating a barbarian with a Strength of 18 in a single opposed Strength check. Luck really makes very little difference in something like an arm wrestling match, so chances are, the guy with the higher Strength is going to win. 3) It's really easy to implement. Everybody has pencils, the DMG comes with a battlemat, and even if you don't have minis you can get lego figures or army men or opposing cans of soda. 4) It's so generic, you could apply it to just about anything. Change it to Dex and call it a footrace. Change it to Int and say it's a game of chess (-4 if you don't know the rules). Change it to Spot and say it's Competitive Where's Waldo. 5) Arm wrestling is mas macho.
Ryusage 05-21-06, 11:24 AM	This specific example is in either the DMG or the PHB... cant remember which.. it was in a section about whether a roll is necessary or not or something. It stated tha, for example, in an arm-wrestling match, the person with the highest strength automatically wins. In the case of a tie in the strength ability, you roll for the victor.
Escef 05-21-06, 01:38 PM	My ruling would be that the stronger character wins automatically, with ties broken by CON. The only exceptions I'd make to this would be if characters had been physically taxed that day.
industrygothica 05-21-06, 03:25 PM	"When two characters arm wrestle, for example, the stronger character simply wins. In the case of identical scores, roll a die." So, if you want the rules as written, there you go. Personally, I like a little more flavor to my games and would likely go with one of the above options; I think that most players would as well (except for the one with the highest strength score of course).
The Colonel 05-21-06, 03:52 PM	The opposed grapple is probably a good idea ... arm wrestling is not simply about strength, there really is a strong element of wrestling. And that is definitely not all about strength. Granted the stronger wrestler is at a serious advantage, but someone who knows what they are doing can still fight above their weight.
Pandaemoni 05-21-06, 04:31 PM	So, if you want the rules as written, there you go. Personally, I like a little more flavor to my games and would likely go with one of the above options; I think that most players would as well (except for the one with the highest strength score of course). I also disagree with the PHB. Arm Wrestling is not the most nuanced competition that e'er existed, but it's not just "push against the other guy's arm--strongest person always wins" (unless you've never learned how to arm wrestle properly). There is some technique that can be applied. Speed and leverage are more important than strength in many matches. See: http://www.eiyc.com/technique.htm In addition, you need not "press" against your opponent's arm for the entire match. You can curl your arm towards your body (you won't come any closer to winning doing this, but this so-called "backpressure" move can "hold" your arm in its present position by relying on your bicep...if your opponent "presses" he'll be relying on his pectoralis minor muscles and triceps primarily). Since many people have a stronger bicep than minor pectoris and tricep, your bicep can often be stable against a press and your opponent will tire a bit pressing against you. When your bicep starts to tire, you then start pressing. If your opponent is still doing the same, you are now pressing against a more fatigued opponent. So you can vary which muscles are under strain from moment to moment, to increase your chance of winning. Has no one see the Sylvester Stallone opus Over the Top???? :shocked: :D
Ryusage 05-21-06, 04:38 PM	so make arm wrestling a skill.
Pandaemoni 05-21-06, 04:54 PM	so make arm wrestling a skill. I think that's what the opposed strength check effectively does...except that both players are using the skill untrained. :) (Because who would throw skill points into it?)
DaMullet 05-21-06, 05:26 PM	That old farmer with the MASSIVE biceps from hoeing his garden all the time who hangs around the bar hoping to earn a bit of coin by throwing PCs to the table.
Atirakis 05-21-06, 05:38 PM	How much REAL arm wrestling have you guys done? I have beat many many people stronger than me at arm wrestling. Its all about technique, timing, leverage and how strong your WRISTS are, not how much muscle you have in your arm. I dont know what sytem would work best, but I would have to say that grappling comes closest to an accurate depection of what arm wrestling is all about. Just remember arm wrestling is not about strenght, sure it helps to not be a total wimp, but you can win with far less strength than your opponent if your technique is better than his.
Ryusage 05-21-06, 05:44 PM	I win arm wrestles by making my opponent scream "mercy!" when I pull his wrist back :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh:
dengarbountyhunter 05-21-06, 05:49 PM	Also, as most of us see an arm-wrestling match in a bar with people around, can the mood of the crowd toward the players give moral bonuses/penalties (like that gladiator match thing in Complete Warrior)? And can a bard with a high Charisma can intimidate his enemy to have a higher chance of beating him? Arm-wrestling is DEFINITLY not only a matter of strength.
TheRubberBandit 05-21-06, 06:40 PM	Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought. One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try. As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one.
LCD2YOU 05-21-06, 06:57 PM	Roll 2d10 and add them together. That way the average rolls of 10/11 for both players the higher stats win. Or in pure physical, non-cheating environments, just add 10.
Bulletproof_Condom 05-21-06, 07:11 PM	When two characters arm wrestle, for example, the stronger character simply wins.Yeah, but the pencil thing gives basically the same results, but there's a lot more room for roleplay.
Atirakis 05-21-06, 10:33 PM	Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought. One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try. As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one. Are you really that dumb? You dont know how to twist your wrist and gain a tactical advantage in an arm wrestling match? Or how about length of ones forearm? That doesnt provide leverage? Why dont YOU put some THOUGHT into your posts before just posting any tripe you feel like spouting off.
Pandaemoni 05-22-06, 01:06 AM	Reading through, Ive seen alot of interesting ways to handle this. Most seem to be missing one thing. Thought. One example was that a commoner with 3 strength would have at least some chance of beating a barbarian with 18 strength. Sorry, good try. As the PHB says, its is simply strength vs. strength. You cannot gain leverage in an arm wrestle without "cheating". You may think there is a way, but no. with othe things, like playing chess, there is a chance for the less intellegent to win, however small it may be. Arm wrestling? Sorry guys and gals, not luck on that one. Wow, way to get overly belligerent on such a minor topic. As for your "commoner with a 3 strength" hypothetical--how about even more thought? Under the RAW, a commoner with a 3 charisma and dexterity who was raised by wolves and who's never even seen a piano can roll a good Perform (keyboards) check, untrained, and "outperform" a 5th level bard with all 18's as his stats who has maxed out his ranks in that skill. That's not very realistic either. Arm wrestling is not the simple "strongest man wins" competition you think it to be. While I agree it is unrealistic for a man with a 3 strength to beat one with an 18...that's the commoner playing piano example. A quick perusal of the internet will show that arm wrestling does have some amount of technique to it...if nothing else think about this: 1. People with longer arms gain more leverage, and are more likely to win such a contest. Being taller should, if we want realism, give you a significant advantage over the halfling, even if your strengths are equal, because the mechanical advantage of the longer lever will increase your effective strength. It's the same principle that's used in creating the grappling system's "Special Size Modifier." 2. What is "strength?" There are more than 600 musles in a hiuman body, as we all develop them to different extents (people even tend to have somewhat greater strength in their primary hand and arm than in their off-hand and arm--so a left-handed player should be at a disadvantage in a right handed arm-wrestling competition, if e wanted realism). An "18" strength (or any other value) is surely some sort of average over the whole body. It's entirely possible that a person with a 17 strength might have a slightly stronger tricep and minor pectoral musles than one with an 18. 3. The PHB apparently says that you roll to determine a winner when two opponents have equal strength. Under your view, why not call BS on that? Surely if two opponents have equal strenth, you simply too to their constitutions. Whoever have the lower constitution tires first and loses. 4. Despite your objection, even a cursory internet search does show some level of technique being involved in arm wrestling. Top rolls, shoulder rolls, hooks, backpressure, locking the arm and assuming proper foot positioning are all discussed. Most of the techniques have to do with increasing leverage or with using other muscle groups as a way of delaying your own fatigue and forcing your opponent to wear himself out. You may think that backpressure and the like are "cheating", but I'm not certain who set that rule. This site (http://www.nycarms.com/Directory_Links/Review.htm) suggests that backpressure is not considered cheating among professional arm wrestlers (and note that the site talks about the "technique" and "experience" of the competitors factoring into matches in a many places). So it's not really clear what you mean by "cheating." Everyone is free to adopt whatever rule they like in-game, since arm wreslting only comes up on a lark, but don't come in here with the overweening attitude of "Oh the fools haven't put any thought into it, unlike me," especially without explaining why your arm wrestling credentials are better than those of the other posters (or of professional arm wrestlers, for that matter).