Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordofIllusions 05-03-04, 02:25 PM	For the sake or realism in your Dungeons and Dragons games how do you handle repairs to armor ? I mean how often do the pc's have to repair their armor and how much does the repairs cost ? ~~~
solandras 05-03-04, 02:41 PM	Hmm honestly I don't make the PC's repair armor. Although I have thought about it before. If you care about realism that much, go for it. But how I see it is if it gets in the way of fun, by adding more time of keeping track of stuff, it's not that nessicary. However if you want rules for it. I would say to keep track of the damage the armor takes as well as the character. On a successful hit (although the armor would be damage on a unsuccessful hit, it REALLY complicates things) apply the same damage to both the character and the armor. Also remember that objects have hardness and hp....so figure out what that is for each armor, and then you could figure out when it would need to be fixed.
ehrin 05-03-04, 04:02 PM	I make sure my players know that part of their day/night (after setting up camp and food) is spent repairing armor, sharpening blades, etc.. This takes care of the leather straps, small pieces of chain missing, links broken, etc.. Then, every time they hit a decent town, they must get to a smithy or armor working shop, and get an overhaul. We don't get **** about it, but it does add a bit of texture to the game... When I play, I make sure to take the leather working craft, and i sit around the camp and repair everyone's armor while they clean or cook.
LordofIllusions 05-03-04, 04:16 PM	That sounds like a good ruling and it seems like it does not require any extra work either. ~~~
MoonWizard 05-03-04, 05:50 PM	In some cases, repairing arms and armor can actually be fun. Repairing armor is for parties who emphasize using skills, and do not jettison the non-move silently, hide, heal skills as peripheral. In between quests, I always give my PCs "off time" to do individual things and give them more control over their characters and it's during this time that armor repair occurs. Two characters in the party are dwarves and they like putting skill points into Craft arms and armor. The sessions when we repair armor are less intensive than questing ones but still interesting while they try and maximize their craft check (with spells like Shape Metal, Prayer; a mithrill crafting hammer that gives a +5 to Craft check; using an unusually hot and powerful forge, etc). The deepwoods sniper of the party received a devastating critical hit from a render once and I reminded him of it during his character's "off time." He bought a pound and a half of mitrill (at 500 GP/lb in MoF) and hired his adventuring partner, a cleric of Clangeddin, to repair his elven chain. The characters went to a Temple of Dumathoin to buy the mithrill, made Diplomacy checks to purchase the rare material, and then rolled to see how well or poorly the repair was carried out. After the roll, I vividly described the process as if the PCs were reading it in a book, as it always is the DM's job. Overall, the experience brought the characters to be more friends than just fellow soldiers on the same mission. Another point of this story is to show the similarity between weapon repair and item creation - about the same steps are taken. The party also has a battlerager who loves to sunder. What if he sunders a weapon that the party would have found useful? In that case, the party would bring the broken item back to their home base (Mithrill Hall in this case) and repair the item back to usefulness and value. By the way, repairing items is detailed on page 71 PHB. Repairing an item costs one-fifth its original cost and a Craft DC of about 15 or 20, depending on the item.
zodiki 05-03-04, 08:10 PM	I almost never track mechanically damage to armor. In RL, if your armor got damaged enough to need repairs, beyond minor ones like dents, new straps and such, there's a good chance you're dead. So as a matter of course I wouldn't spend a lot of time tracking armor damage. However in special cases (like MoonWizard described) it's okay to just rule that the armor was damaged or even destroyed. I don't override the rules for magic armor except in extreme cases, but mundane armor is fair game IMC. The Red Dragon's breath for instance will have a chance to torch your studded leather armor (as well as other "attended" items) if you fail your save (even though this is rules-contrary - it's common sense).
Edymnion 05-03-04, 08:30 PM	Originally posted by zodiki The Red Dragon's breath for instance will have a chance to torch your studded leather armor (as well as other "attended" items) if you fail your save (even though this is rules-contrary - it's common sense). Its not contrary to the rules, its already in there. You get a natural 1 on your save, one of your carried items could get toasted along with you. Typically though, I just include armor/weapon upkeep in the proficiency in using the weapon/armor properly. Proficiency includes knowing how to adjust straps and all that, so I add in knowing how to sharpen the blade, or repair minor damage, etc, as long as you have the tools (like a whetstone or a hammer). Every once in a while have them spend a gold or two in town to have it professionally repaired by a smith. Its just flavor though, really.
Twisted Puppy 05-03-04, 09:13 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion Its not contrary to the rules, its already in there. You get a natural 1 on your save, one of your carried items could get toasted along with you. Typically though, I just include armor/weapon upkeep in the proficiency in using the weapon/armor properly. Proficiency includes knowing how to adjust straps and all that, so I add in knowing how to sharpen the blade, or repair minor damage, etc, as long as you have the tools (like a whetstone or a hammer). Every once in a while have them spend a gold or two in town to have it professionally repaired by a smith. Its just flavor though, really. In the D&D system that's the best way to handle the subject, I agree. RIFTS/Palladium Fantasy has a system by which armor is damaged and repaired. To me, though, that's just one more set of number crunching you have to do that, while it makes sense, takes time away from the actual fun of the game.
zodiki 05-04-04, 10:18 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion Its not contrary to the rules, its already in there. You get a natural 1 on your save, one of your carried items could get toasted along with you. ... Sorry, 1/20 is ridiculously low. You've been here long enough to know of the infamous Kobold in Paper Armor vs Red Dragon Breath Attack and how absurd that is.
Naeron 05-04-04, 10:22 AM	I don't think its an issue that needs attention. At low level (1st and 2nd) damage is rarely high enough to be of sufficient amounts to really destroy armour without killing the PC. The regular tasks that the PC's perform when resting should be enough to keep any armour they have going. And Mending can deal with some of the very minor damage (but this is why my combat type characters always take a few ranks in Craft(Armoursmith) just so they can make field repairs). As soon as they have a 3rd level cleric the whole problem of slowly accumulating damage to armour disappears. Make Whole Transmutation Level: Clr 2 Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One object of up to 10 cu. ft./ level This spell functions like mending, except that make whole completely repairs an object made of any substance, even one with multiple breaks, to be as strong as new. The spell does not restore the magical abilities of a broken magic item made whole, and it cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or wands. The spell does not repair items that have been warped, burned, disintegrated, ground to powder, melted, or vaporized, nor does it affect creatures (including constructs). As long as the Cleric is able to cast this now and then they will be able to keep their armour in good enough condition from accumulated damage. So all in all I would just worry about those times when a natural 1 on a saving throw indicates that something may be destroyed. Originally posted by zodiki Sorry, 1/20 is ridiculously low. You've been here long enough to know of the infamous Kobold in Paper Armor vs Red Dragon Breath Attack and how absurd that is. But the RAW says that said Kobold is in serious trouble and has at least a 42% chance of losing his paper armour. SRD: Catching on Fire Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash. Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.) A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus. Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character. If red dragon breath is judged to be non-instantaneous then the person caught inside should be making a DC15 reflex save vs catching fire even if they make their save vs the damage (the only exception would be those whoy end up taking no damage e.g improved evasion).
Lothy 05-04-04, 10:42 AM	I've actually thought about armor-damage in my own campaigns, but ultimately I came to the same conclusion that others here did. It just turns out to be too much trouble than it's worth. If you think about it, both successful hits and CERTAIN unsuccessful ones would have to be tracked. I started thinking about which unsuccessful hits would be tracked, and it makes sense if you apply AC bonuses in this order : - Dex and dodge bonuses - Deflection bonuses - Shield bonuses - Armor bonuses - Natural AC bonuses this is assuming that characters will always try to dodge first, and defend and/or rely on armor second. You'd have to figure out essentially what the character's "Dodge AC" was, and everything that fell between the dodge AC and actually HITTING would hit some form of armor... As you can see, it gets kind of complicated for the purpose it serves. In my own personal campaigns, I don't make my party track food/provisions. I simply make them purchase reasonably enough food at the beginning of a leg of a journey, and when they get back to town I force them to drop a logical X amount of gold to "restock". I don't make them go through all the role-playing of purchasing rations and water. If you want, you could roll in a cost of Y gold pieces to repair weapons and equipment too if the party saw a decent amount of combat. Failure to maintain their equipment periodically may warrent an occasional check for breakage. Lothy