Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uratoh 10-09-06, 10:37 PM	My PCs have gotten involved in a war. thing is, they're exceptionally high level (12/13) and thus have access to some serious firepower. This being set in Eberron, where there HAS been war with fireball artillery, there's obviously tactics to COUNTER thus...but I'm not sure what an assembled army can do when some people come flying in and chucking 10d6 fireballs and Flamestrikes at em...
Paxar 10-09-06, 10:42 PM	The opposing army is bound to have their own casters flying in and preparing counterspells or dispelling your characters' fly spells and knocking them out of the sky.
Uratoh 10-09-06, 10:48 PM	The opposing army is bound to have their own casters flying in and preparing counterspells or dispelling your characters' fly spells and knocking them out of the sky. After talking to a friend to about this moments ago, it hit me 'wait, the general knows EXACTLY what spells they keep bombarding with, counterspell time!' as well. I feel flat out stupid for not realizing it earlier.
Paxar 10-09-06, 10:50 PM	It happens. :D
OneSidedDice 10-09-06, 10:51 PM	I think the obvious countermeasure is having plenty of friendly wizards with common mass damage spells in their heads or on scrolls, readying counterspells. I think you can even counterspell out of a wand, but I'm not sure about that. That would make for an ideal solution, since even a 1st-level wizard with a wand of fireball could stop a lot of incoming fire. I think there are also mass versions of the energy resist spells in one of the supplemental books (maybe PHB2, or Spell Compendium?), so an army accompanied by sufficiently high-level casters can protect at least its most valuable members. I think there's also a tactic discussed in Complete Warrior that forces an army to move at their base speed each round, because each member is readying another move action triggered when an area effect spell is incoming. When an enemy wizard drops a fireball, everyone scatters their movement to minimize the number of soldiers caught in the blast. Weather magic would also be your friend, since conjuring up a sufficiently powerful storm can ground flyers and limit visibility, which you need to drop attack spells. I think there's also a spell in the Spell Compendium that can force a flying creature to the ground. A wizard might be able to take a few dozen soldiers out with a fireball, but when your own wizard drags him to the ground, their buddies aren't going to be happy.
Generic Poster 10-09-06, 10:58 PM	Aside from having their own spellcaster to counterspell, dispel and throw spells or summon monsters against you, even normal troops shouldn't be completely helpless against your spellcasters. one level of fighter for example will let infanty use tower shields as total cover, negating your fireballs. Archers can target a hex with a hail of arrows, insuring that at least some of them will hit you even if you have high AC (there are rules for this in heroes of battle). The army probably has some sort of aerial squadron to deal with threats from the sky, hippogriffins or giant eagles for example that can deal with flying spellcasters. A skilled character with high enough spot can locate you even when invisible, or possible the army has low level warlocks with see invisible and their infinite eldritch blasts to use against you. Then there is the problem of running out spells and the limited duration of the spells you do have. You may take out quite a few troops, but you'll eventually run of steam and also have to land eventually as well. Then there are a whole new host of dangers waiting for you on the ground. And if you try teleporting away, you might find yourself stuck with a dimensional anchor for example.
Uratoh 10-09-06, 11:10 PM	How does the total cover from fireball work vs the PCs going 'I just aim behind them'? I was debating uses for Grant Move Action, and it struck me I can have troops advance with tower shields, then GMA drops them for normal weaps, then charge.
Paxar 10-09-06, 11:19 PM	How does the total cover from fireball work vs the PCs going 'I just aim behind them'? Ever heard of a phalanx formation? Form the army into rectangular groups, all with tower shields, the soldiers on the edges hold their shields to their vulnerable side while the soldiers in the middle hold their shields horizontally so that they cover everyone's head. Total cover all around.
OneSidedDice 10-09-06, 11:25 PM	How does the total cover from fireball work vs the PCs going 'I just aim behind them'? Well, in 3.X, there is no such thing as facing, so when a character takes total cover behind a tower shield, it applies in 360 degrees. A tower shield won't stop a spell like, say, hold person, which is targetted, but it will grant its wielder immunity to area spells, it seems.
Lawen 10-09-06, 11:37 PM	I'd advise you not to simply counter your PC's with counter-spell. Although it makes sense from a tactics point of view, your players will think it feels cheesy. Also, it kinda goes against the spirit of Eberron, as the entire point of Eberron is that there aren't scads of high level adventurers running around ala Forgotten Realms. I'd go with the Heroes of Battle suggestion. Carpet bombing can be effective, but unless your PC's can literally kill everyone, then they should expect several hundred arrows headed back their way the round after. Again, I can't stress enough how good Heroes of Battle is for allowing lots of low level NPC's provide a threat to high level PC's. That said, it is completely in the flavor of Eberron to have a NPC "anti-party" that can challenge them when they try and pull shinanagins like this. However, don't overuse this one. Such a party should be recurring villains and a constant thorn in the PC's side.