Artificer Wealth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer Wealth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RuinousCreation
10-26-05, 08:25 PM Forgive me if this has already been covered, I really can't find the search feature anywhere in these message boards.

This has always been an issue with magic item crafters, but with Artificers, it's especially unavoidable. With a full set of item creation and artesian feats, Artificers get many to all of their magic items at less than half price, for the expenditure of their craft reserves and maybe some XP. In fact, the value of their magic items can easily top two and half times the value of a non-crafting character’s.

My question is, should a DM try to keep them around the appropriate character wealth using the market value of their items, or the value that the Artificer paid for them?

Obviously, the Artificer’s focus is in magic items and I believe that it is very important for them to have a full suite of items, fuller than other characters. Also, the artificer gave up CP or XP to make the item, and that's worth something. I’m a little concerned, however, about an 8th level Artificer having 72,000GP instead of 27,000GP.

Does allowing an Artificer that many items cause any balance issues? Does it take something from the core of what make the Artificer playable to try to keep them nearer to their own level’s amount of wealth?
DarknessEternal
10-26-05, 10:25 PM Artificiers don't get anything cheaper, they pay more for everything, just like a regular magic item crafter.

XP is a cost; a serious one.

If you intend to say they don't pay XP with craft reserve, then you're also wrong. Craft Reserve makes them pay more gold than if they just bought the item. Since they have do destroy a magic item of equal value, but then also pay half the cost, that item they just made cost 150% the normal gold cost.
Vaelan
10-27-05, 01:32 AM If you intend to say they don't pay XP with craft reserve, then you're also wrong. Craft Reserve makes them pay more gold than if they just bought the item. Since they have do destroy a magic item of equal value, but then also pay half the cost, that item they just made cost 150% the normal gold cost.
The ability you refer to here is called "Retain Essence".

RuinousCreation is speaking of the Craft Reserve. The Craft Reserve consists of Craft Points, which can be substituted for XP when creating an item at a 1-1 ratio.

Also, your analysis of Retain Essence is incorrect. If an Artificer destroys an item, you shouldn't count the full value of the item destroyed as a loss. You should count half of the value as a loss because that is what the Artificer would get for the item if he tried to sell it. This would result in paying 100% of the item's normal cost in GP and spending no XP for an item, which means it is just as good as buying it.

RuinousCreation, when you look at how much money an Artificer could possibly have, remember that they're going to be spending a lot more of their wealth on expendable resources than other characters generally do or else they will suffer with sub-par performance in combat. Further, many of the Artificer's infusions have expensive material components, which cuts a little further into their real wealth.

They need their Craft Reserve and the freedom to do whatever they can with the money they should be given to function effectively.
boytbpc
10-27-05, 08:44 AM Don't change a thing for character wealth when dealing with an artificer. The power of their class is their ability to make items. W/o the neccessary resources to make these items they will be powerless.

Boytbpc
Red_Ninja
10-27-05, 08:51 AM i agree that the value of the crafted items is significant, but they are also the special abilities, spell roster, and some XP of the character... so it should even out. Also, many of the crafted items should be single or multi-use items that can be consumed during adventures...

Also don't forget what havoc a dispel magic can do to potions and scrolls!

Also, just as some creatures have DR or anti magic- and you use these creatures to challenge your PCs, thieving villains and minions now have a lot more to gain by striking at your artificer, considering he's a walking toy chest...
DarknessEternal
10-27-05, 10:11 AM Also, your analysis of Retain Essence is incorrect. If an Artificer destroys an item, you shouldn't count the full value of the item destroyed as a loss. You should count half of the value as a loss because that is what the Artificer would get for the item if he tried to sell it. This would result in paying 100% of the item's normal cost in GP and spending no XP for an item, which means it is just as good as buying it.

It costs the artificer time. Creating magic items has three costs: gold, xp, and time.

Consequently, it costs more to craft a magic item than it does to buy it, even if you have Retain Essense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RuinousCreation 10-26-05, 08:25 PM	Forgive me if this has already been covered, I really can't find the search feature anywhere in these message boards. This has always been an issue with magic item crafters, but with Artificers, it's especially unavoidable. With a full set of item creation and artesian feats, Artificers get many to all of their magic items at less than half price, for the expenditure of their craft reserves and maybe some XP. In fact, the value of their magic items can easily top two and half times the value of a non-crafting character’s. My question is, should a DM try to keep them around the appropriate character wealth using the market value of their items, or the value that the Artificer paid for them? Obviously, the Artificer’s focus is in magic items and I believe that it is very important for them to have a full suite of items, fuller than other characters. Also, the artificer gave up CP or XP to make the item, and that's worth something. I’m a little concerned, however, about an 8th level Artificer having 72,000GP instead of 27,000GP. Does allowing an Artificer that many items cause any balance issues? Does it take something from the core of what make the Artificer playable to try to keep them nearer to their own level’s amount of wealth?
DarknessEternal 10-26-05, 10:25 PM	Artificiers don't get anything cheaper, they pay more for everything, just like a regular magic item crafter. XP is a cost; a serious one. If you intend to say they don't pay XP with craft reserve, then you're also wrong. Craft Reserve makes them pay more gold than if they just bought the item. Since they have do destroy a magic item of equal value, but then also pay half the cost, that item they just made cost 150% the normal gold cost.
Vaelan 10-27-05, 01:32 AM	If you intend to say they don't pay XP with craft reserve, then you're also wrong. Craft Reserve makes them pay more gold than if they just bought the item. Since they have do destroy a magic item of equal value, but then also pay half the cost, that item they just made cost 150% the normal gold cost. The ability you refer to here is called "Retain Essence". RuinousCreation is speaking of the Craft Reserve. The Craft Reserve consists of Craft Points, which can be substituted for XP when creating an item at a 1-1 ratio. Also, your analysis of Retain Essence is incorrect. If an Artificer destroys an item, you shouldn't count the full value of the item destroyed as a loss. You should count half of the value as a loss because that is what the Artificer would get for the item if he tried to sell it. This would result in paying 100% of the item's normal cost in GP and spending no XP for an item, which means it is just as good as buying it. RuinousCreation, when you look at how much money an Artificer could possibly have, remember that they're going to be spending a lot more of their wealth on expendable resources than other characters generally do or else they will suffer with sub-par performance in combat. Further, many of the Artificer's infusions have expensive material components, which cuts a little further into their real wealth. They need their Craft Reserve and the freedom to do whatever they can with the money they should be given to function effectively.
boytbpc 10-27-05, 08:44 AM	Don't change a thing for character wealth when dealing with an artificer. The power of their class is their ability to make items. W/o the neccessary resources to make these items they will be powerless. Boytbpc
Red_Ninja 10-27-05, 08:51 AM	i agree that the value of the crafted items is significant, but they are also the special abilities, spell roster, and some XP of the character... so it should even out. Also, many of the crafted items should be single or multi-use items that can be consumed during adventures... Also don't forget what havoc a dispel magic can do to potions and scrolls! Also, just as some creatures have DR or anti magic- and you use these creatures to challenge your PCs, thieving villains and minions now have a lot more to gain by striking at your artificer, considering he's a walking toy chest...
DarknessEternal 10-27-05, 10:11 AM	Also, your analysis of Retain Essence is incorrect. If an Artificer destroys an item, you shouldn't count the full value of the item destroyed as a loss. You should count half of the value as a loss because that is what the Artificer would get for the item if he tried to sell it. This would result in paying 100% of the item's normal cost in GP and spending no XP for an item, which means it is just as good as buying it. It costs the artificer time. Creating magic items has three costs: gold, xp, and time. Consequently, it costs more to craft a magic item than it does to buy it, even if you have Retain Essense.