As a DM: Creating NPCs ... is there a quicker way [Archive] - Wizards Community

As a DM: Creating NPCs ... is there a quicker way [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kolyana
07-03-07, 04:54 PM So I'm trying to create 5 3rd to 5th level NPCs and suddenly I realize how insanely slow the whole process is; I'm burning through valuable writing time trying to piece together these guys logically and not just randomly.

I'm using eTools, which has alleviated the process quite a bit, but are there any other tools out there, resources, databases or anything else that would help me in the process of NPC creation where I have some input on their equipment, class and etc, without it taking me 3 hours per NPC?
Renthemoogle
07-03-07, 05:08 PM Players handbook 2 has a nice section in the back of the book that lists equipment, suggested skills/feats/spells/etc. If you can accept not picking out everything perfectly, this is a very fast way to make an NPC. Using this table I can crank out an NPC in about 10 minutes. Multiclass NPCs, or monstrous NPCs with alot of abilities take a bit longer, 20-30 minutes.

The Magic Item compendium has a new system for giving NPCs magical items. It's quicker than counting gold, but you still have to pick them out yourself. This method has more control, but obviously is more involved.
calvinNhobbes
07-03-07, 05:18 PM Make your NPCs memorable. Don't try to optimize them.
Try to give them feats, skills and equipment that make them special and unique.
For low to mid level NPCs, I usually spend all their wealth on one or two defining items. On higher levels I will split it up a little more.
Spells can be the real time consuming part. But once again, this is a good place to just pick a few common spells of each level that really gives them flavor.
Kolyana
07-03-07, 05:23 PM Make your NPCs memorable. Don't try to optimize them.
Try to give them feats, skills and equipment that make them special and unique.
For low to mid level NPCs, I usually spend all their wealth on one or two defining items. On higher levels I will split it up a little more.
Spells can be the real time consuming part. But once again, this is a good place to just pick a few common spells of each level that really gives them flavor.

Thanks - that's exactly what I'm doing, but it's still a time consuming process; the higher the level, the more time consuming it is.

I totally don't care about optimizing anything, but I do want to personalize.
dknight100
07-03-07, 05:27 PM I have spreadsheets made up in advance of generic NPC stats (i have several different proffesions set up, so that its not all the same, as well as different levels of 'power', and spreadsheets with age factored in). This way, i just pick my base stats off there, pick equipment of my generic lists too, and roll some traits for them. Its fastish, and blandness is really made from how you use them. As far as non bosslike NPC's go, i think its good enough.
Elrond Hubbard
07-03-07, 05:28 PM 3.0 NPC generator: http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc.cgi

It's random, and far from perfect, but it's a great place to start. Will give you some good building blocks.
Dire_Rhino
07-03-07, 05:35 PM There's a random 3.5e character generator out there somewhere, but I prefer HeroForge. It's an Excel spreadsheet that takes all of the number-crunching out of making NPCs. You select stats, classes, weapons, etc. and it spits a character sheet out. Just google HeroForge 5.0.7 to get it.
Rian Lightblade
07-03-07, 05:36 PM The fact that you want to personalize your NPCs is going to add time to their creation, there is no way around that. But there are ways to shorten that time. Using the NPC stats found in the DMG and then tweaking them to better fit your tastes or the adventure, setting, campaign (whatever) is the quickest way I've found to generate personalized NPCs. I not sure what page the NPCs are listed on but I sure someone can list the page number or I'll do it when I get home.

A second way is to reuse old or dead PCs. As a player/DM I keep a file of every PC I've ever played or that anyone in any of my groups have ever played. I update the filed with a new copy every time the PC levels up. This provides me with a wealth of ready made NPCs (organized by level) that I can throw into an adventure at the drop of a dime.
The man they call Boxhead
07-03-07, 05:44 PM I only stat out major villains and recurring NPC allies. Otherwise all they get is a few stats- AC, hp, Attack bonus, maybe a few skills. If you need anything else, just improvise it. Lesser villain spellcasters get 3-5 spells (all they're likely to get to cast). Fudge HP, AC or attacks and you can claim they used feats.

Do not spend too much time on a villain with a life expectancy of 3-5 rounds...
Kolyana
07-03-07, 06:00 PM This is all good stuff - thank you all; I look forward to checking out some of these links when I get home!

I only stat out major villains and recurring NPC allies. Otherwise all they get is a few stats- AC, hp, Attack bonus, maybe a few skills. If you need anything else, just improvise it. Lesser villain spellcasters get 3-5 spells (all they're likely to get to cast). Fudge HP, AC or attacks and you can claim they used feats.

Do not spend too much time on a villain with a life expectancy of 3-5 rounds...

Great points and very valid; I guess I'm in the situation right now where I don't know which of the 5 is going to live and become more major and which will die quickly.

Plus they're all major in a way, but your point is extremely valid.
Kouk
07-03-07, 06:00 PM It also gets faster with practice, as you memorize all the relevant rules and such.
Werebat
07-03-07, 06:01 PM Thanks - that's exactly what I'm doing, but it's still a time consuming process; the higher the level, the more time consuming it is.

I totally don't care about optimizing anything, but I do want to personalize.

At 16th level and 7 PCs, making NPCs for my game is about as fun as doing my taxes. Just spent days of spare time crafting a group of high-level villains for a final encounter. Whew! I'll be glad when this is over!

The trouble with not min/maxing is that if you have min/max players (and I do) you end up with relatively wimpy NPCs that they chew right through like rice paper (as in, they don't get to act once before the end of combat). In my cynical moments I have considered speeding up my creation process by just slapping NPCs together and giving them net +3 bonuses to everything (to hit, damage, saves, spell DCs). I've yet to actually do that though.

- Ron ^*^
sabrewolf
07-03-07, 10:56 PM Some bits i´ve used that might be usefull, but require a little knowledge of rules and improvisation:

- General statting. Just as others said. I don´t fully stat an npc, usually i look at the class table and see the base values for their class, consider what their habilities might be (half based on an average number from the PCs). I use HPs full so I just need calculate it (works like average roll). Feats and gear (one armor, one or two weapons) are based on what idea I have for the NPC but dont give much attention to it. Spells I usualy pick a theme (makes them unique that way) and give a few signature spells (and improvise latter based on comon sense of what he might know)... The whole thing takes only a few minutes and I can even do it mid-game (calling a snack break or "just a moment").

I use full stats as well, but leave them only for NPCs that have traveled with the group for a while (couple adventures) and go into combat, only because they become an asset in battle, while other NPCs can pass along with blurred details, never seeing a fight or helping only in one then parting ways soon after.

- Foes go the same way, both for henchmen and minor villains. Small villains, from sidequests and small plots, are treated exactly like NPCs or are "upgraded henchmen", with random bonuses and better equipment given in a moment.

Major villains (with their plots filled with many encounters) usually deserve a little more detail, maybe even a full statted sheet: they are more important and have a higher survival rate: either lasts a long combat or are recurring villains.

Lastly and far from less important, Henchmen: I usually pick a monster and add template and/or class levels based on a theme, mostly cut and paste. My trick here is making 2 or 3 themed soldiers/henchmen/minion usually with level/CR of 3, 5, 10, 15... and adjust slightly around that theme on the fly as the party find a foe - Skeletons with armor and weapons? grab the soldiers and kick out their con bonus to HP. Bugbear soldiers in a group? pick a couple details from the bugbear like St, Dx, Con, Nat AC and HD and template it to the soldier. - And increase their numbers to up the CR. So far the times i did it, my group didnt noticed because the average difficulty of the encounter matched their level and were fun to play.

Up to now, my group went from lvl 4 to lvl 16 and I only have 2 fully statted NPCs and one villain, plus 5 henchmen groups. All the rest were picked up on a 5 minute break or went on the fly from what i had or knew. Sure need some quick thinking and improvisation, but to me it works wonders. If it´s one of you strong traits, you could try foccusing less on the actual rules and go with the flow - a not so strong enemy can be instead a first wave of a larger group while a not so battle impressive NPC could be an apprentice or a more versatile adventurer that knows is little match to a full warrior or spellcaster but still does fine.

Hope any of this is of use. ;)
Kolyana
07-03-07, 11:12 PM Thanks for all the feedback guys; truly appreciate it. With Edition 2 I'd improvise all of the time, I guess as rules have increased for character creation, so my willingness to continue in this vain has diminished, while in reality I should loosen up a little.

For those who kinda throw their semi-major villains together by what 'feels' right, do you 'obey' the rules and ensure that they only have traits they should be 'allowed', or do you give them spells, stats, traits & magic items that fit the character and break the rules?
Paladin_Hiroshi
07-05-07, 03:03 PM http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi

only a few problems,
just change the names etc and your done.

However it tends to pick stupid skills and feats, but that's easily remedied, and it tells you how many skill points the NPC gets.

Only problem is if it rolls awful stats.... hope it helps!
amethal
07-05-07, 04:42 PM For those who kinda throw their semi-major villains together by what 'feels' right, do you 'obey' the rules and ensure that they only have traits they should be 'allowed', or do you give them spells, stats, traits & magic items that fit the character and break the rules?I just pick the numbers I want them to have.

I even made up a group of 20th level NPCs on the fly the other day. Its not difficult once you get over the initial trepidation. Use the PCs as a guide.

For example, AC 40 seemed about right for the fighter types, to provide the right level of challenge for my party. (Other groups might have found that too easy to hit.)

The spellcasters tend to use the same spells that the PCs have found useful, starting with the most powerful and then (if they live that long) working down.

And there's always the d20 NPC wiki.

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Archtyrant Terevoth
07-05-07, 04:46 PM The trouble with not min/maxing is that if you have min/max players (and I do) you end up with relatively wimpy NPCs that they chew right through like rice paper (as in, they don't get to act once before the end of combat). In my cynical moments I have considered speeding up my creation process by just slapping NPCs together and giving them net +3 bonuses to everything (to hit, damage, saves, spell DCs). I've yet to actually do that though.

Yeah, I pretty much do just that for high level games. GIve the NPCs a few defining items and then just have them get static bonuses as though they had the basic numeric items, like rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, magic armor, etc.
Kolyana
07-05-07, 08:01 PM And there's always the d20 NPC wiki.

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Wow - I knew there had to be something out there like this; absolutely perfect - thank you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kolyana 07-03-07, 04:54 PM	So I'm trying to create 5 3rd to 5th level NPCs and suddenly I realize how insanely slow the whole process is; I'm burning through valuable writing time trying to piece together these guys logically and not just randomly. I'm using eTools, which has alleviated the process quite a bit, but are there any other tools out there, resources, databases or anything else that would help me in the process of NPC creation where I have some input on their equipment, class and etc, without it taking me 3 hours per NPC?
Renthemoogle 07-03-07, 05:08 PM	Players handbook 2 has a nice section in the back of the book that lists equipment, suggested skills/feats/spells/etc. If you can accept not picking out everything perfectly, this is a very fast way to make an NPC. Using this table I can crank out an NPC in about 10 minutes. Multiclass NPCs, or monstrous NPCs with alot of abilities take a bit longer, 20-30 minutes. The Magic Item compendium has a new system for giving NPCs magical items. It's quicker than counting gold, but you still have to pick them out yourself. This method has more control, but obviously is more involved.
calvinNhobbes 07-03-07, 05:18 PM	Make your NPCs memorable. Don't try to optimize them. Try to give them feats, skills and equipment that make them special and unique. For low to mid level NPCs, I usually spend all their wealth on one or two defining items. On higher levels I will split it up a little more. Spells can be the real time consuming part. But once again, this is a good place to just pick a few common spells of each level that really gives them flavor.
Kolyana 07-03-07, 05:23 PM	Make your NPCs memorable. Don't try to optimize them. Try to give them feats, skills and equipment that make them special and unique. For low to mid level NPCs, I usually spend all their wealth on one or two defining items. On higher levels I will split it up a little more. Spells can be the real time consuming part. But once again, this is a good place to just pick a few common spells of each level that really gives them flavor. Thanks - that's exactly what I'm doing, but it's still a time consuming process; the higher the level, the more time consuming it is. I totally don't care about optimizing anything, but I do want to personalize.
dknight100 07-03-07, 05:27 PM	I have spreadsheets made up in advance of generic NPC stats (i have several different proffesions set up, so that its not all the same, as well as different levels of 'power', and spreadsheets with age factored in). This way, i just pick my base stats off there, pick equipment of my generic lists too, and roll some traits for them. Its fastish, and blandness is really made from how you use them. As far as non bosslike NPC's go, i think its good enough.
Elrond Hubbard 07-03-07, 05:28 PM	3.0 NPC generator: http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc.cgi It's random, and far from perfect, but it's a great place to start. Will give you some good building blocks.
Dire_Rhino 07-03-07, 05:35 PM	There's a random 3.5e character generator out there somewhere, but I prefer HeroForge. It's an Excel spreadsheet that takes all of the number-crunching out of making NPCs. You select stats, classes, weapons, etc. and it spits a character sheet out. Just google HeroForge 5.0.7 to get it.
Rian Lightblade 07-03-07, 05:36 PM	The fact that you want to personalize your NPCs is going to add time to their creation, there is no way around that. But there are ways to shorten that time. Using the NPC stats found in the DMG and then tweaking them to better fit your tastes or the adventure, setting, campaign (whatever) is the quickest way I've found to generate personalized NPCs. I not sure what page the NPCs are listed on but I sure someone can list the page number or I'll do it when I get home. A second way is to reuse old or dead PCs. As a player/DM I keep a file of every PC I've ever played or that anyone in any of my groups have ever played. I update the filed with a new copy every time the PC levels up. This provides me with a wealth of ready made NPCs (organized by level) that I can throw into an adventure at the drop of a dime.
The man they call Boxhead 07-03-07, 05:44 PM	I only stat out major villains and recurring NPC allies. Otherwise all they get is a few stats- AC, hp, Attack bonus, maybe a few skills. If you need anything else, just improvise it. Lesser villain spellcasters get 3-5 spells (all they're likely to get to cast). Fudge HP, AC or attacks and you can claim they used feats. Do not spend too much time on a villain with a life expectancy of 3-5 rounds...
Kolyana 07-03-07, 06:00 PM	This is all good stuff - thank you all; I look forward to checking out some of these links when I get home! I only stat out major villains and recurring NPC allies. Otherwise all they get is a few stats- AC, hp, Attack bonus, maybe a few skills. If you need anything else, just improvise it. Lesser villain spellcasters get 3-5 spells (all they're likely to get to cast). Fudge HP, AC or attacks and you can claim they used feats. Do not spend too much time on a villain with a life expectancy of 3-5 rounds... Great points and very valid; I guess I'm in the situation right now where I don't know which of the 5 is going to live and become more major and which will die quickly. Plus they're all major in a way, but your point is extremely valid.
Kouk 07-03-07, 06:00 PM	It also gets faster with practice, as you memorize all the relevant rules and such.
Werebat 07-03-07, 06:01 PM	Thanks - that's exactly what I'm doing, but it's still a time consuming process; the higher the level, the more time consuming it is. I totally don't care about optimizing anything, but I do want to personalize. At 16th level and 7 PCs, making NPCs for my game is about as fun as doing my taxes. Just spent days of spare time crafting a group of high-level villains for a final encounter. Whew! I'll be glad when this is over! The trouble with not min/maxing is that if you have min/max players (and I do) you end up with relatively wimpy NPCs that they chew right through like rice paper (as in, they don't get to act once before the end of combat). In my cynical moments I have considered speeding up my creation process by just slapping NPCs together and giving them net +3 bonuses to everything (to hit, damage, saves, spell DCs). I've yet to actually do that though. - Ron ^*^
sabrewolf 07-03-07, 10:56 PM	Some bits i´ve used that might be usefull, but require a little knowledge of rules and improvisation: - General statting. Just as others said. I don´t fully stat an npc, usually i look at the class table and see the base values for their class, consider what their habilities might be (half based on an average number from the PCs). I use HPs full so I just need calculate it (works like average roll). Feats and gear (one armor, one or two weapons) are based on what idea I have for the NPC but dont give much attention to it. Spells I usualy pick a theme (makes them unique that way) and give a few signature spells (and improvise latter based on comon sense of what he might know)... The whole thing takes only a few minutes and I can even do it mid-game (calling a snack break or "just a moment"). I use full stats as well, but leave them only for NPCs that have traveled with the group for a while (couple adventures) and go into combat, only because they become an asset in battle, while other NPCs can pass along with blurred details, never seeing a fight or helping only in one then parting ways soon after. - Foes go the same way, both for henchmen and minor villains. Small villains, from sidequests and small plots, are treated exactly like NPCs or are "upgraded henchmen", with random bonuses and better equipment given in a moment. Major villains (with their plots filled with many encounters) usually deserve a little more detail, maybe even a full statted sheet: they are more important and have a higher survival rate: either lasts a long combat or are recurring villains. Lastly and far from less important, Henchmen: I usually pick a monster and add template and/or class levels based on a theme, mostly cut and paste. My trick here is making 2 or 3 themed soldiers/henchmen/minion usually with level/CR of 3, 5, 10, 15... and adjust slightly around that theme on the fly as the party find a foe - Skeletons with armor and weapons? grab the soldiers and kick out their con bonus to HP. Bugbear soldiers in a group? pick a couple details from the bugbear like St, Dx, Con, Nat AC and HD and template it to the soldier. - And increase their numbers to up the CR. So far the times i did it, my group didnt noticed because the average difficulty of the encounter matched their level and were fun to play. Up to now, my group went from lvl 4 to lvl 16 and I only have 2 fully statted NPCs and one villain, plus 5 henchmen groups. All the rest were picked up on a 5 minute break or went on the fly from what i had or knew. Sure need some quick thinking and improvisation, but to me it works wonders. If it´s one of you strong traits, you could try foccusing less on the actual rules and go with the flow - a not so strong enemy can be instead a first wave of a larger group while a not so battle impressive NPC could be an apprentice or a more versatile adventurer that knows is little match to a full warrior or spellcaster but still does fine. Hope any of this is of use. ;)
Kolyana 07-03-07, 11:12 PM	Thanks for all the feedback guys; truly appreciate it. With Edition 2 I'd improvise all of the time, I guess as rules have increased for character creation, so my willingness to continue in this vain has diminished, while in reality I should loosen up a little. For those who kinda throw their semi-major villains together by what 'feels' right, do you 'obey' the rules and ensure that they only have traits they should be 'allowed', or do you give them spells, stats, traits & magic items that fit the character and break the rules?
Paladin_Hiroshi 07-05-07, 03:03 PM	http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi only a few problems, just change the names etc and your done. However it tends to pick stupid skills and feats, but that's easily remedied, and it tells you how many skill points the NPC gets. Only problem is if it rolls awful stats.... hope it helps!
amethal 07-05-07, 04:42 PM	For those who kinda throw their semi-major villains together by what 'feels' right, do you 'obey' the rules and ensure that they only have traits they should be 'allowed', or do you give them spells, stats, traits & magic items that fit the character and break the rules?I just pick the numbers I want them to have. I even made up a group of 20th level NPCs on the fly the other day. Its not difficult once you get over the initial trepidation. Use the PCs as a guide. For example, AC 40 seemed about right for the fighter types, to provide the right level of challenge for my party. (Other groups might have found that too easy to hit.) The spellcasters tend to use the same spells that the PCs have found useful, starting with the most powerful and then (if they live that long) working down. And there's always the d20 NPC wiki. http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Archtyrant Terevoth 07-05-07, 04:46 PM	The trouble with not min/maxing is that if you have min/max players (and I do) you end up with relatively wimpy NPCs that they chew right through like rice paper (as in, they don't get to act once before the end of combat). In my cynical moments I have considered speeding up my creation process by just slapping NPCs together and giving them net +3 bonuses to everything (to hit, damage, saves, spell DCs). I've yet to actually do that though. Yeah, I pretty much do just that for high level games. GIve the NPCs a few defining items and then just have them get static bonuses as though they had the basic numeric items, like rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, magic armor, etc.
Kolyana 07-05-07, 08:01 PM	And there's always the d20 NPC wiki. http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Wow - I knew there had to be something out there like this; absolutely perfect - thank you!