Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr. NewFox 08-03-05, 01:33 PM	I'm taking a poll-- but a little background info first. I decided to upgrade to the 3.5 core books (finally!) but what with a second mortgage and a second dog obtained recently, I find my spare money going to trivial things like, oh, food and toilet paper. So, to finance the new books, I started a little store at (Link Removed) with products inspired by these boards and the DM's here. Just to be clear, I am in NOT advertising for or in any way promoting the store here. This is just background to my question. You see, I mentioned what I was doing to a friend of mine, and he said it'd never work. I explained to him why I thought it would. He ultimately said "People will never buy shirts and mugs about D&D, much less wear them around. It's kinda embarassing, ya know?" I asked if he was ashamed of playing D&D. He hemmed and hawed a bit, but then admitted that he was, a little. Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks.
Dragonspirit 08-03-05, 01:40 PM	It depends on my company. Around work, no, I keep it secret. It's possibly a sad commentary on life, but I don't want to give any negative impressions (when it's your income, you do what you have to do and just deal with prejudices). I'm at work to make money, and I won't do anything that might disrupt that. And if they think I'm the psycho coworker who plays D&D, or use that to prejudice their minds about my maturity or competency, I would lose out. Not worth the risk. Around my friends or family, I'm quite open about it. Some will laugh and some won't, but I don't care. I'm not going to hide who I am from those I let in my "inner circle". I am me, geek am I, love me *snarf*!! :)
tarkin 08-03-05, 01:42 PM	I would say I am a bit embarrassed about it, just as I am a bit embarrassed about liking porn. But I am not ashamed.
weasel fierce 08-03-05, 01:45 PM	Theres nothing to be ashamed of, or embarassed about. I've openly worn my Werewolf the Apocalypse t-shirt to work (not D&D, but another RPG) and apart from a few "hey, you game too ?", I didnt hear anything for it.
Board_Rider 08-03-05, 02:00 PM	I am not ashamed of being a D&D player, but I just don't talk about it because of the hassles and questions.
Julia of Hillsdown 08-03-05, 02:00 PM	Ashamed? Given that I read my gamebooks in public, I think it's a bit too late for that reaction on my part ;) So, no, not ashamed, not embarassed, just damned proud of it :D
Illion the Red 08-03-05, 02:11 PM	I'm too old to be ashamed of a hobby. It's not like I skin housecats for fun or something equally reprehensive.
striderII 08-03-05, 02:22 PM	Theres nothing to be ashamed of, or embarassed about. I've openly worn my Werewolf the Apocalypse t-shirt to work (not D&D, but another RPG) and apart from a few "hey, you game too ?", I didnt hear anything for it. Neat. I especially like the current "WtF?" shirts they put out. It's nice to see they can make fun of themselves. :) strider
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 02:30 PM	while i felt embarassed, ashamed, whatever when i was asking my big brother (big brother big sisters) for a dnd book and he said "dnds no cool" "i know lots of people that played it, and they didnt get that far in life. maybe just cd store clerks". he than refused to get me anything dnd. i had a feeling something like that would happen, but the way he said it wasnt cool like he actually knew what it was :(. thats the worst i felt about liking it. i thankfully havent had any religious people come knocking at my door telling me i am a spawn of evil yet though :)
Orcmonk89 08-03-05, 02:33 PM	I'm not ashamed.... hide, schoolfriends *ducks behind a grassy gnoll and steps on it's tail*
Nyarlathotep 08-03-05, 02:38 PM	I am not embarrassed to let people know I play the game. It's a hobby and a game, nothing more, and I should no more be mbarrased of it than if I collected stamps or got together for a weekly poker game with my friends. There are times I will refrain from revealing my hobby to an interested party, though. For example when I know the person won't have a clue what I am talking about and I don't feel like explaining it, i.e I am going to GenCon in August but as far as my boss is concerned I am just going to a SciFi/fantasy convention. She doesn't know much about the game or what GenCon is and I don't really feel like explaining it. The other time I'll keep mum about the game is if I know I am dealing with a raving fundy idiot of the Jack Chick stripe. Unless I REALLY feel the need to get into a protracted religious debate, I keep my hobby to myself. However, neither case is embarrasment, just pragmatism.
Pfisiar 08-03-05, 02:42 PM	If i'm with some rather conservative people, I don't discuss it. After all, I don't try and offend people. And if they don't know my hobby, they won't harp on me about how it "hurts" me. Everyone wins that way.
Tedly224 08-03-05, 02:50 PM	As a devout Christian it's not one of those things I advertise about at my Church. Go figure. The early to mid 80's did its job well in that department. Some friends I've made from there though know I'm a gamer and some of them are too. I'm in my mid 30's - I agree with the above poster. It's not like I skin cats or stalk beautiful women. It's a harmless hobby. In the workplace, yeah, I'm known as a gamer. Most folks there though are into the Online MMO's and RPG's, but they have no problems yakkin' about the table top scene as well as the computer based games. I mean, if you play and enjoy the one, you're more or less in the same pool with the other folks. My friends of course know and I play with several of them, and my current ladyfriend knows but isn't interested in playing AD&D or White Wolf games with me and my friends. She is pretty committed to playing City of Heroes in a lot of her spare time, so hey, a gamer is a gamer. I lucked out in that department. As for family... Oi. Extremely regligious parents. AD&D bad bad BAD from the 80's. Hiding books in boxes and stuff growing up. You get the picture. They know I game but not exactly what and it's one of those things I keep apart from them.
Astinex 08-03-05, 02:51 PM	It depends on my company. Around work, no, I keep it secret. It's possibly a sad commentary on life, but I don't want to give any negative impressions (when it's your income, you do what you have to do and just deal with prejudices). I'm at work to make money, and I won't do anything that might disrupt that. And if they think I'm the psycho coworker who plays D&D, or use that to prejudice their minds about my maturity or competency, I would lose out. Not worth the risk. Ditto. Not to compare what I do to anyone else, but within my work environment "playing games", other than golf, may bring a person's professionalism into question. It seems pretty obvious that though the stigma towards D&D in the late 80's & early 90's has worn off a lot; there is still a lingering doubt in many people's minds. I know that if the people I manage found out I play D&D, I would lose some level of respect from many of them. Now I don't go out of my way to lie about or deny it, but I don't advertise it either. Around my friends or family, I'm quite open about it. Some will laugh and some won't, but I don't care. I'm not going to hide who I am from those I let in my "inner circle". I am me, geek am I, love me *snarf*!! :) I'm a firm believer in this simple fact about life, "There are only two people in life you have to impress, your employer and your future spouse." The rest need not be impressed, because if they like/love you they will stick with you. And if they don't like you, well I know I'll get over it.
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 08-03-05, 02:52 PM	Outside of church, I ussually don't tell people unless the topic comes up. At church my friends know I play D&D(some play it themselves). I do not tell the adults. My church is pretty, um, how shall I say this....CG. They are pretty underzealous and accepting. But I can never be too carefull as one of the ex-youth group teachers is always going "Harry Potter and D&D are evil!" as everyone else nods at random intervals(which means they are not really listening)
JFargo 08-03-05, 02:54 PM	I'm not at all embarassed or ashamed that I play, and share openly about my gaming in all aspects of my life. Only if asked though, and even then I try to keep it brief if the person doesn't seem really interested. However, I ~have~ been embarassed when introducing fellow D&D players that don't understand that not everyone is into the game, and they just never stop talking about it...
Drausktanchache 08-03-05, 02:57 PM	No way....i broadcast it loud and proud....i don't care what people think of me bacause i play dnd, or i act a little strange....it just makes me a little more unique than everybody else
Astinex 08-03-05, 02:57 PM	I agree with the above poster. It's not like I skin cats or stalk beautiful women. It's a harmless hobby. Well at least I don't skin cats. ...Most folks there though are into the Online MMO's and RPG's, but they have no problems yakkin' about the table top scene as well as the computer based games. Yes the PC game environment is definately changing the social temperature of the attitude towards these games. It's funny how I could easily talk about playing Everquest, or some other online game with no problem. But, mention roleplaying as a P-n-P game and some people give you funny looks.
Arden Blackleaf 08-03-05, 02:59 PM	"Yawns" Ashamed? Embarassed? "Checks" Nope. I read my books out in public. and I'll freely admit Im a gamer. If they don't like it Well you know the rest.
Illion the Red 08-03-05, 03:01 PM	However, I ~have~ been embarassed when introducing fellow D&D players that don't understand that not everyone is into the game, and they just never stop talking about it... They are no different than the rabid sports fan. Some people don't have the social skills or experience to know when to cease a topic. This is one of the reasons the "stigma" continues. There are still a great many people out there that think the "rabid gamer" is the norm.
windscar18 08-03-05, 03:03 PM	I personally don't feel ashamed, but some do. There are a crowd of people who do it shamefully, and some who certainly do it proudly. It's a geek thing, you know, and some people just enjoy running around with Final Fantasy 1 8-bit Era shirts or Megaman or something like that. Or some wear the same anime shirt over and over again. Others want to fit in. And there's people who are like me who want to fit in, but realize that being as stupid as thinking the shirt you wear affects your position in society won't get you anywhere. For example, during summer school, I was reading a D&D book during finals, since I could effectively get a 0 on the final and still have an A (extra credit). A person who got done asked me what was I doing and I said I was reading a D&D. She looked at me as though I was the plague and I just shrugged and said, "What, it's fun. Do you have a problem with that?" Look at the website. There's so many people broadcasting games like it's a community. I bet that even if many of the people were ashamed of D&D, there would be enough to make a profit.
Wenin 08-03-05, 03:03 PM	I'm not embarassed about being a gamer. I talk about killing orcs, shooting thugs, and blowing up starships quite often in public. I kind of get a kick out of people's looks. I work with a friend that is also a gamer, who is also gay. He is different, he is more open about being gay than he is about being a gamer. He calls himself a closet gamer. I'd believe this feeling to be the norm. A person will more talk about baseball in public than gaming. As for D&D T-Shirts, I'd probably not wear one. All of my T-Shirts, but one are plan shirts. The one that has a logo is of the university I graduated from.
pangalactic 08-03-05, 03:03 PM	I'm not ashamed. It's not something I immediately tell everybody I meet about - why would it be? - but it's not as though I'd turn around and deny having ever heard of it if somebody asked me. Hell, you only need to walk into my bedroom to see that I'm heavily into reading and all-things-fantasy. And as it's just an extention of that, what's the problem? Having said that, however, after seeing Neighbours today and watching the 'geek's playing what was supposed to be D&D, I'm going to make a point of not advertising that I play to my friends who watch that show. It was just...*shudders*. Let's not go there :(
Drausktanchache 08-03-05, 03:08 PM	the best part of being quite social with dnd is you get a lot of players.... and a lot of crtisism, because of what it was like back when it was created....i get the "you must be evil if you play that" kinda thoughts projected at me though not in those words....but then i ask...."well have you ever played it? Do you know anything about it?" after this i can get a few kicks outta their looks, cause most of 'em look as if they just recieved a slap to the face....then after a bit of scilence i hear "uh......no...."
windscar18 08-03-05, 03:11 PM	Stereotypes are an evil thing. I hate them, hate them, hate them, hate them. But people just make those type of assumptions and I can't stop them. People are all like "Geeks will never get girlfriends or do this or do that and even if I do end up working for them, at least I'll have a wife." And my friend happens to enjoy D&D, d20 Modern, Call of Cthulu, anime. He wears Evangelion stuff all the time. And so what? He has girlfriends all over the place. Expose it to the world and people will follow.
Drausktanchache 08-03-05, 03:14 PM	"if you build it they will come" -field of dreams this quote has a lot of meaning here, set a foundation for dungeons and dragons and you get a few followers than a citadel
DaveReaves 08-03-05, 03:15 PM	I usualy dont mention it to anyone out of the blue, but if someone asks what do for fun it gets tossed in with video games and beach trips.
Kyle_the_DM 08-03-05, 03:16 PM	I consider myself a devout Christian and I think that church is the only place I won't say that I play D&D. I know a few of the older people at my church would probably start freakin' out on me. I am however a member of the Christian Gamer's Guild. Honestly, I've always been more embarasses to tell people I was in Boy Scouts. Now though I'm an Eagle Scout and an Assistant Scoutmaster and people think its a great thing. I don't get people sometimes... Oh well, to each his own I say. I'm not afraid to admit I'm a gamer. If it makes me less of a person to have a hobby that puts me in a situation were I'm having legal and fun social interactions with like minded individuals... then oh well. So what if spending the weekend rolling dice instead of drinking made me a loser in high school.
Callista 08-03-05, 03:19 PM	I guess I'm used to being one of the "outsiders"; so I'm not worried about it. I mean, I wouldn't be elected student body president; but I'm liked and accepted by the people who are just as "geeky" as I am, and that's enough for me. Being popular has never been a great desire for me... I just want to be myself, that's all. Edit: Oh, yeah. I'm a Christian, myself; but I don't really worry about talking about D&D to other Christians. I tend to run in semi-conservative Baptists... y'know, the sort that will tell you not to mess around 'til you're married, but have no problem with having a glass of champagne at your wedding... that sort of thing. So they're generally OK with me pretending to be a knight or a wizard or whatever. Maybe one in fifty of my church might have a problem; but it would be more like, "Are you sure you're keeping your feet firmly in the real world?" rather than "Aaaargh! Devil worshipper!".
Alynn 08-03-05, 03:33 PM	Not embarassed... hell nothing embarasses me... you should see my slogan T-shirt collection "I lie to girls" and "I put out on the first date." which are my least racy of the bunch. I'm actually surprised that a lot of people don't even know it still exists. But I freely browse the books in normal bookstores... and I spend a few hours over at the hobby store... 15 minutes of shopping and 1:45 talking with the owners. I bring my books to work on days we have no work to do, just to get a few extra minutes or hours for next weeks session. If I'm looking for a group I post up a flyer... I play, I'll talk about it, I don't care. I hate talking to people who are though... especially if they want to talk about it, but they have to whisper like we are going over bomb plans for some federal building, THAT is what embarasses me. Also, D&D is a great time waster when you are in Iraq, just to have something to do makes time over there go by quicker.
Bruunwald 08-03-05, 03:43 PM	To me, any advertisement of what I do, outside of being in a professional capacity, or if somebody asks, is an embarrassment. I was raised to present myself as just a person. What I do and what I like is something for when somebody asks, or something to keep among friends. I say that because it goes towards my current feeling on this. We have a fellow working in our office who games a particular tabletop wargame that shall remain nameless. This individual can not stop talking about it. Nobody asks, he just brings it up out of nowhere, to anyone, at anytime. Coworkers, the water deliveryman, an old lady at a bus stop. Most of these people have no idea what he's talking about. None of them care. To my mind, this fellow is a "nerd," not because he plays this game, but because it owns him. To me, the important thing is to own what you do and who you are. I never cared if people called me a nerd for playing D&D. I know I do supposedly "nerdy" things, but I don't feel I'm a nerd if I own who I am. Labels are wrong, anyway. But my feeling is that if you are right with who you are, you are immune to them, for the most part. They still hurt sometimes, but you can at least be okay with you. So, I don't broadcast my playing, but I'll explain it to someone, if they ask. That's just my upbringing. On the other hand, I was in the middle of all of that 80's stygma of "devil-worshiping", "judgment-clouding", "nerd-game" stuff. None of it was true, of course. But it was very frustrating. My mother-in-law still worries over my wife and I playing. And the lady in the next cubicle is always butting into other people's business and making a stink about anything that isn't 110% Pure White Christian Fist-Pumping George Bush America. So when I know somebody is anti-, I do become a little defensive. They can't pester you if you don't bring it up. But ashamed, no. Avoiding the ignorance of others? Yes.
drow_101 08-03-05, 03:45 PM	hell no id ware it on my sleve
TheChilliGod 08-03-05, 03:46 PM	First of all, I only have had 1 person so far in my past year of gaming who openly criticizes me for it. Of course, a "D&D are EBIL!" christian. But that's all. I don't bring D&D up in any conversations with anyone bar my friends. (who, incidentally, every one of them are gamers.) I have to say yes, I am kind of ashamed of playing D&D, (not to mention Magic as well, which somehow got a lot more negative feedback). It's just my personality, I don't like sharing anything about myself that even has a 2% chance of others going, "HA! Freak!" on me. I'm self-conscious. It's the way I am. I'm ashamed of it, ashamed of playing D&D (no matter how much I like it) and I'm even ashamed of the school I go to. Oh dear. :blush: Did I say that out loud?
chrisnd 08-03-05, 03:49 PM	I think that the times have changed with respect to being embarrased. Telling younger people (those who are my age - 34) that I play is one thing, and I usually don't have a problem with it. Most of my family knows about it, although my older brother would probably give me a hassle about it and tell me that I could probably spend my time more productively. Some members of my ultra-conservative church are aware that I play (heck, my last DM and I shared duty as Jr. High Sunday School teachers), but I think that there are others that I would not openly share such facts with unless I was asked. Some of my coworkers are aware, but I have never talked about it openly to any of my bosses or supervisors - again, I would have to agree with others when they say it could be a cultural/maturity level thing. I guess it just depends on whom I happen to be talking to, and what the particular context happens to be. Some people know, some people don't. However, no one can deny that the 3.0 and 3.5 versions have truly opened the door for a new generation of gamers, and a new generation of people who are willing to put some effort into making the game more "mainstream." My two daughters are 6 and 4, and I am looking forward to introducing them and their friends to the game when they reach a level of "maturity" that I consider appropriate (maybe 12 or 13 if they become interested). And of course, we have seen the likes of some very famous people admit and openly discuss their enjoyment of the game, even up to now - including Vin Diesel, Mike Myers, and Wil Wheaton (as well as some other pretty well respected people in the entertainment industry). The other time I'll keep mum about the game is if I know I am dealing with a raving fundy idiot of the Jack Chick stripe. Unless I REALLY feel the need to get into a protracted religious debate, I keep my hobby to myself. However, neither case is embarrasment, just pragmatism. By the way, the guy's name is Tom Chick, not Jack Chick. Don't mean to nitpick, but when my arch-nemesis #1 enemy is referenced, I feel the need to correct. And besides, if you ever do have an opportunity to engage in the protracted religious debate, I would encourage it. I am a honestly devout Born-again Christian, and the likes of the intentially uneducated Tom Chicks out there need to be put in their proper place. If anyone at any time tries to use the "Tom Chick Anti-D&D Argument" against you, I would highly suggest that you scream "Have at You!" at the top of your lungs and engage in a full-frontal assault. :P
Phrennzy 08-03-05, 03:52 PM	I work with a friend that is also a gamer, who is also gay. He is different, he is more open about being gay than he is about being a gamer. He calls himself a closet gamer. I'd believe this feeling to be the norm. A person will more talk about baseball in public than gaming. I am totally your co-worker. I mean, I'm not your co-worker, but I am the same way. Out and proud about being gay - not so out (but still proud) to be a gamer.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-03-05, 03:54 PM	You know a big part of the reason that there's still a gamer stigma is because gamers do so much to perpetuate it ourselves.
Bruunwald 08-03-05, 04:04 PM	I am totally your co-worker. I mean, I'm not your co-worker, but I am the same way. Out and proud about being gay - not so out (but still proud) to be a gamer. We've had two gay men in our game over the years, and interestingly, both shared that in common with you, as well. However, both were VERY open about their love of Star Trek. But being in the Bay Area, that could describe a whole lot of people.
zavin 08-03-05, 04:06 PM	I'm not ashamed, as a matter of fact i'm proud of it.
Thoronmir 08-03-05, 04:06 PM	The last time I did anything of which I was ashamed was in 1993. I had been set up on a blind date. I was waiting at the bar of the restaurant where we were supposed to meet. I assume my friend who set us up must have described me to her because she walked right up to me and asked if I was “Bob” (the name is changed to protect the guilty). To be honest, she wasn’t quite what my friend had represented when he described her to me. So, I downed my bourbon, stood up, and replied, “No, my name is Tom,” and walked out. Before I’d reached my car, I knew I’d always regret treating her so callously … and I have almost every day since. But playing D&D? No, that’s nothing to be ashamed of.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-03-05, 04:07 PM	I am not ashamed of being a D&D player, but I just don't talk about it because of the hassles and questions. That's exactly where I'm coming from...
Bruunwald 08-03-05, 04:09 PM	You know a big part of the reason that there's still a gamer stigma is because gamers do so much to perpetuate it ourselves. You know, I agree with you. Not everybody. I am a very approachable gamer (mostly because I rarely bring it up myself). My wife is definitely an approachable gamer. But there are those gamers, and we have one in the group, who feel gaming is selective and exclusive, and actively perpetuate that sort of off-putting thing. Maybe because they feel it's their domain, the same way certain jocks guard their game from lesser players. It's their territory, and guarding it sort of seeps out into normal life, where a bad attitude hurts more than just the individual's image. I'm thinking of when I was kid, now, and I'd try to join a game, and the other players would act like because they didn't know you, or you were new, you must be inferior to them. It was a lot like not getting picked for dodgeball. That defensiveness and haughtiness is what makes a lot of gamers seem unapproachable.
Nyarlathotep 08-03-05, 04:10 PM	By the way, the guy's name is Tom Chick, not Jack Chick. Don't mean to nitpick, but when my arch-nemesis #1 enemy is referenced, I feel the need to correct. And besides, if you ever do have an opportunity to engage in the protracted religious debate, I would encourage it. I am a honestly devout Born-again Christian, and the likes of the intentially uneducated Tom Chicks out there need to be put in their proper place. If anyone at any time tries to use the "Tom Chick Anti-D&D Argument" against you, I would highly suggest that you scream "Have at You!" at the top of your lungs and engage in a full-frontal assault. :P I can only assume that we are talking about two different guys. I am referring to Jack Chick (http://***************/information/authors/chick.asp), the creator of Chick tracts. I have never heard of Tom Chick. Actuall a religious debate between you and I would be interesting because I am an atheist, but I rarely enjoy such debates and when I DO get into the mmod for one, I tend to find places where such activity is the norm. I suspect that a religious debate would be frowned on here. ;)
Mysthack 08-03-05, 04:18 PM	In my experience I have found a lot of my friends relate bad connotations to the game simply because their parents did. And their parents did simply because the media did. Once I actually explain the game to my friends, I'm 16 btw, they say something along the lines of, "Oh, that actually sounds fun." Personally, I think that peoples bad opinions are mostly based on what they think the game is due to bad media rather than what it actually is. Oh and add one more on the tally of christian gamers playing D&D.
chrisnd 08-03-05, 04:23 PM	I can only assume that we are talking about two different guys. I am referring to Jack Chick (http://***************/information/authors/chick.asp), the creator of Chick tracts. I have never heard of Tom Chick. Actuall a religious debate between you and I would be interesting because I am an atheist, but I rarely enjoy such debates and when I DO get into the mmod for one, I tend to find places where such activity is the norm. I suspect that a religious debate would be frowned on here. ;) Oh my...I stand so humbly corrected. Forgive me Nyarlathotep - his name is in fact Jack. For some reason I was confusing myself by calling him Tom, when in fact his name has always been Jack. Regardless if his name is Jack (or Tom), he is still a nutcase who has built a crusade against legitimate D&D games (Christains or not) based on a complete disregard for the facts. That is mostly the reason why I find his stuff so completely insane. I also think that it is people like him who causes gamers like ourselves to be "embarassed" to admit that they play. In all actuality, I am more weary about telling people (and I mean everyone) that I occasionally (well, okay...every Monday) watch WWE Professional Wrestling. That is actually MORE embarassing. And you are correct - a religious debate would seem rather interesting, to be sure. However, it would also seem to be completely inappropriate here.
Necron99 08-03-05, 04:27 PM	One of the advantages of getting older is that you start caring less and less about what people think, and place more weight on how they act. I met my wife on an online dating service many years ago. I found that some folks would kinda smirk when I told them, and it still happens seven years and two kids later. After that first unfair judgement I decided that the best way to take "embarrasing" issues like wives or hobbies is head-on, with no apologies or excuses. I don't advertise the fact that I met my wife under unusual circumstances, or that I play RPGs. But if anyone asks about either, I make sure they know that I am unapologetic and willing to talk about it all day long, if they like. It's quite liberating, actually - one less stone to carry around. If anyone here is carrying one of these stones, just drop it, it's easy - right on some snob's foot, if possible. I also find that the kind of people who would judge me unfairly on questions like this are not quality people who's opinions I would respect anyway. So, who cares? More and more I find it's not me...
chrisnd 08-03-05, 04:32 PM	One of the advantages of getting older is that you start caring less and less about what people think, and place more weight on how they act. I met my wife on an online dating service many years ago. I found that some folks would kinda smirk when I told them, and it still happens seven years and two kids later. After that first unfair judgement I decided that the best way to take "embarrasing" issues like wives or hobbies is head-on, with no apologies or excuses. I don't advertise the fact that I met my wife under unusual circumstances, or that I play RPGs. But if anyone asks about either, I make sure they know that I am unapologetic and willing to talk about it all day long, if they like. It's quite liberating, actually - one less stone to carry around. If anyone here is carrying one of these stones, just drop it, it's easy - right on some snob's foot, if possible. I also find that the kind of people who would judge me unfairly on questions like this are not quality people who's opinions I would respect anyway. So, who cares? More and more I find it's not me... Ha! I met my wife on a radio dating show. 11 years later, we are near to celebrating our 9th wedding anniversary, and we have two wonderful kids (who will hopefully turn out to be avid gamers like their dad... :) ) I say "bunk" to the snobs. In my old age (34) I have wholeheartedly embraced my "geekiness" to the point of nearly being proud of it.
Unca_Laguna 08-03-05, 04:34 PM	I may have to get myself a DnD T-shirt. My "Staff of Hermes" full metal alchemist shirt and my "Don't make me go Zelda on you" T both see regular use. however, I don't have any illutions about being a normal person. I have a far greater tendancy to be visible in public that the average Joe. PS: funny story about acting out in public. A friend and I were talking in the book store one day, and our conversation took a turn for the wierd. To the innocent bystander, all you hear is me, proclaiming loudly to an audience of several people, "I don't care if you are from Ireland or Jupiter, a Potato is not a meat!!!".
smaugchow 08-03-05, 04:48 PM	Yup, one of the reasons I quit was embarassment. Caused by my loving wife, no less. The main reason was one friend had no transportation and the friend who always brought him moved away and dumped her long-term boyfriend (another player.) The players dried up and so did the game. Still, my wife would tell any and everybody that it was D&D night. She would explain in horrid detail how much time we'd spend on it. She made it obvious that she thought it was a geek sport and that we were being childish, though she would never say it to my face. Wench. I wouldn't have been so embarassed about it if she hadn't been like that, but the game was going to die anyway. Back in the day, I had to defend D&D to my middle school. We had a gaming group that used the school after hours until the late bus, and all we needed was a "sponsor" teacher who would be in the school and needed a list ogf who was there. No big deal, just making sure they knew who was still on the grounds. So we got the teacher's permision but didn't really explain our intentions. He thought we would be playing board games or something. Some obnoxious twerp from another group stuck his head in, saw the D&D books, and went screaming for a teacher like he had seen us butchering a goat on the carpet. I guess he was one of those kids whose parents threatened to beat him with a tire iron if he ever played the game. Whatever. So the teacher pulls me out of class the next day to explain to him the game and why it should be allowed since some parents were upset at the "rampant satanism" their son was being exposed to. Right. So I walked him through character creation and a little about races and classes, and quite frankly I think I bored him to death. We had his whole class (he had the special ed kids) helping write stuff on the board and whatnot. He let us continue, probably figuring we were a bunch of dorks. I wish I had been sophisitcated enough then to really argue the merits of the game. I was in 7th grade and most of our games involved at least one "chromatic dragon" so you can make some assumptions about our style. :rolleyes: I'd love to have that conversation now. And when my parents saw the movie "Mazes and Monsters" they freaked out. I was grounded from DnD for a month while they wrung their hands and tried to figure out if I needed an exorcism or a girlfriend. Needed both, as it turns out... :devil:
zeppenwolf 08-03-05, 04:50 PM	If i'm with some rather conservative people, I don't discuss it. After all, I don't try and offend people. And if they don't know my hobby, they won't harp on me about how it "hurts" me. Everyone wins that way. Well you won't find anyone more conservative than me, but I'm fine with it. Otherwise I wouldn't be carrying these expensive books all over the place... I think it's a little funny how often people here talk about how DnD is considered 'evil' and everything-- I mean, I'm sure there are still people like that out there. But come on, don't wear that like a cross. (Not you personally). Almost everything that was new at one time was 'evil', from Pokemon to Elvis to everything else. So what, times change, it takes all kinds, yadda yadda. Myself, I don't hide it, but I don't advertise it either.
Nyarlathotep 08-03-05, 04:57 PM	You know, people who are embarrassed to tell people they play D&D might be surprised at people's reactions if they did. When I first began dating my wife, she was not a gamer at all. When I tolder I played D&D on a weekly basis with my friends her immediate reaction was "Really? Could I play?", and she told me the story of how she got to play once in high school and liked it, but because she broke up with the guy she was dating at the time (who took her to the game) she never got to play again. She has been playing in my group ever since. So you never know who out there is a wannabe gamer. :D
chrisnd 08-03-05, 05:06 PM	You know, people who are embarrassed to tell people they play D&D might be surprised at people's reactions if they did. When I first began dating my wife, she was not a gamer at all. When I tolder I played D&D on a weekly basis with my friends her immediate reaction was "Really? Could I play?", and she told me the story of how she got to play once in high school and liked it, but because she broke up with the guy she was dating at the time (who took her to the game) she never got to play again. She has been playing in my group ever since. So you never know who out there is a wannabe gamer. :D Insanely jealous I am. I love my wife. I have had her play D&D once. I have had her play DungeonQuest and Talisman a few times. But to turn her into a regular player would be a dream come true. In case I didn't say so before, Insanely jealous i am.
Sabreboy 08-03-05, 05:26 PM	Can't say I go shouting about it, in fact I guess I try and avoid mentioning it amongst non-gamer friends. (Sunday afternoon, in the pub, watching footie (or soccer if you are American)) Non-Gaming Friend: So, what are you up to tonight? Me: Off to my pals house N-G F: What are you up to? Me: Oh nothing much,.. Silence Since that conversation they have found out what I do on Sunday evenings, but don't tend to talk about it. I guess they have discovered me being a geek (which I am happy to be), but don't feel the need (have any interest) in discussing it at lenght. Just my ramble... (PS my wife thinks it is very sad and S*£T but still loves me, just checked and she says she feels embarassed for me) ________________________________________ _____________________ "Having said that, however, after seeing Neighbours today and watching the 'geek's playing what was supposed to be D&D, I'm going to make a point of not advertising that I play to my friends who watch that show. It was just...*shudders*. Let's not go there " ________________________________________ ______________________ PPS Glad I missed that, was it bad?
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 05:35 PM	what i hate is how my stupid friends cant play it caus they say "nobody will be their friend". omg i honestly cant say dnd is that bad. and even worse is people that says its evil (though i guess you can justify that with book of vile darkness ^^;;). and i saw this christian site (i did a google search on dnd) that said that while we think its a game, real demons dont and they target us o_O. what i dont get is how dnd gets all this bad rep, but nobody gives a dam bout finaly fantasy, which is essentially the same kinda fantasy thing. its the one game dnd that gets the bad rep, and still its nowhere close to the worst. thats what gets me ticked is the association with dnd being evil, when ppl dont even know what the hell it even is.
andras_rannoch 08-03-05, 05:43 PM	I would have to join in with the crowd who doesn't generally advertise, but I am by no means embarassed. I will hold a discussion in a public place, but not with an unwilling party, and I have been known to read rulebooks in public, but as someone earlier said, fewer people know I'm a Boy Scout than know I game. Neither of the two are embarassing, as far as I'm concerned, but both can cause undue hassle because people insist on being uneducated in the matter, and will stalwartly fight any attempts to decrease their ignorance.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 05:46 PM	I would have to join in with the crowd who doesn't generally advertise, but I am by no means embarassed. I will hold a discussion in a public place, but not with an unwilling party, and I have been known to read rulebooks in public, but as someone earlier said, fewer people know I'm a Boy Scout than know I game. Neither of the two are embarassing, as far as I'm concerned, but both can cause undue hassle because people insist on being uneducated in the matter, and will stalwartly fight any attempts to decrease their ignorance. exactly people dont even care enough to understand what it is knowledge (dungeons and dragons)= 0 initiative= +0 (as a pun, meaning they have no initiave to learn)
mvincent 08-03-05, 05:58 PM	Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Yup. I think a big part of reducing your geekiness is knowing when not to talk about your geekities. Example: it's fine to techno-geek-out when around other techno geeks, but needlessly talking about computers to regular people (who aren't interested in such) will cause you to be labelled geeky. Same thing with D&D. I try to surround myself with fairly ungeeky D&D players so that I can casually talk about D&D without increasing my geekosity. In turn (by presenting an ungeeky example) this might attract more regular people to the hobby. Really though, the best way to ungeekify the hobby is to make the rules accessible to regular people (i.e. simpler). High learning curves are for geeks.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 06:01 PM	Yup. I think a big part of reducing your geekiness is knowing when not to talk about your geekities. Example: it's fine to techno-geek-out when around other techno geeks, but needlessly talking about computers to regular people (who aren't interested in such) will cause you to be labelled geeky. Same thing with D&D. I try to surround myself with fairly ungeeky D&D players so that I can casually talk about D&D without increasing my geekosity. In turn (by presenting an ungeeky example) this might attract more regular people to the hobby. Really though, the best way to ungeekify the hobby is to make the rules accessible to regular people (i.e. simpler). High learning curves are for geeks. thats harsh. you only play with "ungeeky" ppl. O_O to improve your image :nonono:
Godzilla 08-03-05, 06:03 PM	I don't feel ashamed to play D&D. If people want to make fun of me for liking it, they should get a life, and not care what others like. Your friend is just too self-concious to realize that it doesn't matter what others think, but only what you think.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 06:11 PM	I don't feel ashamed to play D&D. If people want to make fun of me for liking it, they should get a life, and not care what others like. Your friend is just too self-concious to realize that it doesn't matter what others think, but only what you think. exactly ^^
mvincent 08-03-05, 06:30 PM	you only play with "ungeeky" ppl. O_O to improve your image Not at all. I definitely try to socialize with socially awkward people, but I avoid talking about geeky things with them in public (and there are reasons for this). However, discussing geeky things with my socially cognizent friends is more socially acceptable. This isn't so much to improve my image (no need... I'm already married ;) ), but to synergize D&D with social-ness. Some might label the observance of some basic social rules as shallow, but those that don't tend to alienate themselves, which isn't good for our hobby. I also view being self-aware and socially cognizant as a way of being considerate of others.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 06:34 PM	Not at all. I definitely try to socialize with socially awkward people, but I avoid talking about geeky things with them in public (and there are reasons for this). However, discussing geeky things with my socially cognizent friends is more socially acceptable. This isn't so much to improve my image (no need... I'm already married ;) ), but to synergize D&D with social-ness. Some might label the observance of some basic social rules as shallow, but those that don't tend to alienate themselves, which isn't good for our hobby. I also view being self-aware and socially cognizant as a way of being considerate of others. are u using big words to improve ur image, or do you usually talk like that O_O
mvincent 08-03-05, 06:47 PM	are u using big words to improve ur image, or do you usually talk like that O_OYes. I often try to use the best-est word I can, even when talking. By showing special consideration to my words (spelling, capitalization grammer, etc), I am trying to show consideration and respect to the reader (hopefully making it easier for him to read). But yes, I believe making the effort can improve your credibility. Also note: I am a Psychology major (to explain the big words), and a computer engineer (being a geek is part of my job)*. * This, or any of the preceding, is not meant to impress you.
Fanatic-Templar 08-03-05, 07:01 PM	Ashamed? What is there to be embarassed about? I even have it on my curriculum vitae ( stimulates creative thinking, you know ) and quite frankly, it's never caused me trouble before. Though I suppose anyone who would take offense at that is detracted by the fact that I have long hair. <rant>Damn you prejudiced ignorant jealous eggheads! You all look like fools, but do I mock you? No! Have the decency to do the same!</rant> Ahem, back on topic, yes... I have no shame of D&D. In fact I openly try to convert innocent folk to our corrupt spellcasting coven of evil.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 07:03 PM	Yes. I often try to use the best-est word I can, even when talking. By showing special consideration to my words (spelling, capitalization grammer, etc), I am trying to show consideration and respect to the reader (hopefully making it easier for him to read). But yes, I believe making the effort can improve your credibility. Also note: I am a Psychology major (to explain the big words), and a computer engineer (being a geek is part of my job)*. * This, or any of the preceding, is not meant to impress you. well your not impressing, i cant understand a word you say -.- you know, maybe you should speak dwarf i'll understand you a LOT better (the dwarf thing was sarcasm =/)
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 08-03-05, 07:12 PM	well your not impressing, i cant understand a word you say -.- Actually it was pretty easy to understand.
xlawedjeanne 08-03-05, 07:14 PM	Actually it was pretty easy to understand. yea, but i'm stupid as **** :(
Cyra 08-03-05, 08:57 PM	yeah, I'm very much a closet gamer, and have a healthy amount of shame. If you were to look at me in the street I would not look at all like the stereotype- no jewelry of an occult nature, no black t-shirt with witty sayings usually trying desperatly to offend people, and my players are much the same way, only I'm the best dressed! I wear button up oxfords in the proper way, only 1 button at any time can be unbottoned (disregarding the cuffs as texas gets friggin hot, and I roll them up) and khakis, sometimes jeans. Don't ask me how what I wear is pertinant to this conversation...because I don't know.
druidmaster312 08-03-05, 09:05 PM	why would anyone be ashamed of playing D&D. It is only a game and it dosn't matter what others say. If you enjoy playing the game and don't become obssed with it then there is nothing to be ashamed about.
WizardlyFriend 08-03-05, 09:14 PM	i am not ashamed in the least, where i don't go around admitting to it, the only people that look down on us DnDers, look donw upon us out of ignorance. i played DnD last summer with two guys who had never played before (I DMed). both of these guys played D2 college sports. laccrosse and football. although it is stereotypical that they oppose us DnDers i just thought i'd like to add it. they both loved playing, i doubt they'll ever play again, but it still proves that this hate of DnD is pure ignorance. the laccrosse guy played an elven ranger and the other guy played one of my favorite characters (let me explain this guy was like 6' 5'' probably close to 300 pounds and mostly muscle) the character was named Julian Dimbleningle, and he was a gnomish bard with pet badger winston. in conclusion im not ashamed that i play DnD and i do wear some DnD shirts, in public. no one should be ashamed in this modern age when it suddenly became cool to be uncool, if anything you'll probably see sales from all these kids who want to act cool by being uncool and nerdy.
mvincent 08-03-05, 09:18 PM	If you enjoy playing the game and don't become obssed with it then there is nothing to be ashamed about. <Sigh> Shoot
Board_Rider 08-03-05, 09:24 PM	I wear button up oxfords in the proper way, only 1 button at any time can be unbottoned (disregarding the cuffs as texas gets friggin hot, and I roll them up) and khakis, sometimes jeans. Good I know what/who I'm looking for! *Sorry but this little confab me and Cyra has spanned threads.
Cyra 08-03-05, 09:32 PM	OH CRAP I'VE GIVEN UP THE GOOSE! or was it a clever ruse Mr. Rider....a clever ruse indeed.
LiXinjian 08-03-05, 09:37 PM	I'm not ashamed of the hobby, but I'm embarassed by some of our fellow players: social issues and hygiene problems seem to be the lot of many of them, and these are the ones non-players associate the hobby with (kinda like computer gamers). It's hard to admit of an association of any sort with these "outcasts". That is, I believe, at the core of this whole "DnD shame issue", much more than all that religious angle which is, to my knowledge, completely invalid and unheard of here in Canada (Québec). If all players blended in smoothly in society (say, like athletes, movie afficionados, and most other hobby groups), then we wouldn't be talking about this right now. Of course, it's hard to convince other people that you're normal when you keep refering to things like werewolves, undead creatures, swords and dragons. Because they can't connect with you, you are branded a "freak". Same happens with most every enthousiasts, however, from chess-club members to flight simulation fans, so it's not that big an issue. Now, I openly read my books at work (helps to ferret out the other gamers out there), and discuss the hobby with those who are interested to talk about it. But if you ask me if I'd buy a t-shirt with a chainmail-clad fighter dishing it out with a bunch of wererats with the words D&D in bold red letters on top, heck, never in a hundred years (but I don't wear music band t-shirts either). PS: By the way, Tom Chick is a staff writer for Computer Gaming World, IIRC.
Elven Doritos 08-03-05, 09:39 PM	As a resident geek of a fairly small city, I do my best to provoke religious nuts and spread exposure of the game. Hell, I've played D&D in a church. With the pastor. That being said, I take great pride wearing my Order of the Stick T-shirts publicly (even in that sphere of adolescence, my high school) and I take the time to explain to individuals the difference between D&D and the image it has due to the 80's fantasicm. I've even gotten local jocks interested in the game and the exposure here is spreading like wildfire. Do I get jokes behind my back? Certainly. Does this limit some of my social maneuvering and perhaps give me a bad name in some groups? Of course. Do I care? No, because these people will always find a way to persecute me, whether its because of any of my hobbies or the myriad other reasons. I know the true value of friends, so I don't pay attention and just do things my way.
FlameLover 08-03-05, 09:53 PM	No-one could say playing D&D is a 'cool' thing to do with a straight face but how is it different from playing a sport or reading a book? It takes some creativity and work on the DM's part but in all its just an advanced version of chess. I don't feel ashamed but i also don't walk around with a t-shirt saying 'I love D&D' so i think anyone who *does* hide it is insecure. If your friends can't handle that then your better off without them IMHO.
Horatio Hornblower 08-03-05, 10:28 PM	I'm not ashamed of playing D&D. My friends and family know I play D&D, MTG and other games. They know I like science fiction and fantasy. Also that I use to go to a lot of cons before my life got too busy. Most of my friends are interested in the same things. Work, on the other hand, is a totally different story. I live in the Deep South, USA. There are some people around here that take their version of Christianity in a very strange direction. They think D&D, evolution and believing the world is more than six thousand years old is ABSOLUTE EVIL! Don't get be wrong. I'm not knocking Christians. There are several posts in this thread from good Christians who play D&D and that's great. I'm talking about the ones who have gone off the deep end and think people who don't think like them are doom to Hell. That crowd would prefer to have America become a theocracy so they could force their views on the rest of us. So at work I don't discuss my roleplaying hobby or any other counter culture thing I'm into. If I met someone in a social environment and they started lecturing me I could tell them what to do with themselves. I don't have that luxury at work.
ccerose 08-03-05, 10:44 PM	I'm not, but my wife is. :P She calls me a nerd all the time. When I got back into PnP RPGs, I took a bit of ribbing from my buddies, but it only lasted for a couple of days. When I told a group of friends that I couldn't make it to a bar-be-cue on Labor Day weekend because I am going to an RPG Convention, they all had the same reaction, "You play D&D?" There were a few jokes, but that was about it. When I go to the mall with my wife, I usually sneak my most recent purchase along in my back pack. When she heads for the candle shop, I plant myself down on a chair and start reading up on new feats.
chrisnd 08-03-05, 11:54 PM	PS: By the way, Tom Chick is a staff writer for Computer Gaming World, IIRC. Oh yes...thank you, thank you, thank you. Now I know why I had that name imbedded in my mind. Plus, a friend of mine posted an article about Tom Chick on his blog indicating that Tom was one of the better writers in the computer magazine industry (of which I wholeheartedly agree) - he is actually an independent contributing columnist to various publications, not just CGW, although he does appear in CGW quite regularly. Lixinjian, thank you very much for your insight!
Mandarbgrim 08-04-05, 12:45 AM	Just a thought..not sure if it has been mentioned yet. A D&D forum may not be the best source of information regarding being embarrassed or ashamed of playing D&D. It seems that the majority of the posters on these boards are confirmed lifers when it comes to gaming. I don't mention it to people in real life simply because a lot of people have no idea what I am talking about, and I don't want to explain. It can be kind of embarassing at times, and a hassle beyond that level that it should be.
kaeso 08-04-05, 01:09 AM	it depends on who im around, if im around friends then ill talk about it cause i think its awesome. around my family, i read the books a lot but i dont talk to them about it cause my parents will start attacking my hobbies when they're angry at me... a kind of 'go out and get a job' thing (btw, im only 16) at school i talk about it with friends, we kinda have a spot we always go to ta hang out, but i wouldnt talk about it in front of joks, they're such ******* that they'd give me about 20 minutes of crap over it. oh well, joks become garbage men.
Hairfoot 08-04-05, 01:47 AM	The greatest irony is that so many people will dismiss D&D players as maladjusted escapists, then risk life and limb to get home in time for Buffy or Angel or Charmed, or any of a dozen other fantasy-themed programs. Being a passive observer of fantasy written by someone else is acceptable to the masses, but participating in an active way is labelled obsessive and unhealthy.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-04-05, 04:46 AM	You know for a long time I wouldn't admit I had a problem. So a guy likes to read the Player's Handbook every now and then, so what? Not like I owned ten sided dice, not like I was making characters, not like I really knew what a Saving Throw was. They told me it was a gateway book, but I didn't believe them. I thought it was a harmless buzz, blow off some steam after a hard day, I can handle it, right? Then I switched to the hard stuff, the Dungeon Master's Guide with a Monster Manual chaser. I tried to hide it. My girlfriend wanted to know why she was finding $100 order reciepts from Amazon in the trash. I told her I'd joined a book of the month club. Yeah, more like five books of the month. I started sneaking out of the house at night to meet people, I'd go days without food, without sleep, what did it matter as long as I had my game? I was losing hours at work, missing bill payments because all the money had gone to getting my fix, gotta have that Expanded Psionics Handbook 3.5, gotta have that Monster Manual 3. Sometimes I was still in denial. It's okay if I just buy minis, right? That's not D&D, it's a strategy game, it's an entirely seperate hobby. I thought I was fooling everyone, but the truth is they saw right through me, saw me for what I really was: A gamer. But now I've gotten help for it. I joined GA and I've been clean for four months. I don't need to live in shame of my gaming habit anymore. From now on it's clean sailing, nothing but living life, looking ahead, and occasional bouts of World of Warcraft, Everquest, and Guild Wars. What? Hey, those are MMORPGs, they're completely different. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!
tallforadwarf 08-04-05, 08:46 AM	LOUD AND PROUD! Come of of the Magnificent Mansion! No point in feeling bad about something you love so much is there? Peace, tfad
babysamurai 08-04-05, 09:35 AM	It's true, most people think gamers are that fat kid at the back of the class named Elliot who eats paste. Conventions haven't done much good for the gamer image either, I went to a couple, and wow, the lack of personal hygeine was shocking. I've never been an advocate for displaying your personal preferences/ideologies/interests/sexuality on clothing. I may like the X-men, but no way in hell am I going to walk down the street with some dorky Wolverine T-shirt on. Lucky I'm married now, but if I had worn a Lord of the Rings T-shirt or something like that, I doubt I would ever have met a woman, at least the kind you would want to know, not some chick with dyed black hair that constantly talks about how cool Spawn is. If someone comes into my home and says "geez, what are all those books for?", I usually just casually mention that they are for gaming. If they have ever heard of D&D they usually say "really!?, you seem so normal"...see what I mean.
Darrian 08-04-05, 10:33 AM	I am still very much "in the closet" regarding my gaming hobby. I have played D&D, Legend of the Five Rings, Raw Deal and Warhammer for many years and have made many many friends playing these games. However, I am in the fitness industry and I do not share my hobby with anyone in that field nor do I discuss it with any of my clients or co-workers. I have tried to explain it to co-workers and clients before but it was never worth the endless explaining and ridicule it provoked. Let's face it, most gamers are not the most physically fit or socially adept people, so they have never made much of a positive impact on the fitness community. We are seen as fat geeky guys who lack a social life that includes members of the opposite sex. Since I do not fit the gamer stereotype, I often find it hard to defend the gamer lifestyle. My current relationship is the only time that I have confided my hobby to a woman I am dating. In the past, I would just tell a woman that I was going out with the guys when I was playing a game and trips like Gencon were just roadtrips. Luckily my current girlfriend is in the gaming industry and she plays D&D so I have a much easier time. Darrian (stealth gamer)
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 10:39 AM	I am still very much "in the closet" regarding my gaming hobby. I have played D&D, Legend of the Five Rings, Raw Deal and Warhammer for many years and have made many many friends playing these games. However, I am in the fitness industry and I do not share my hobby with anyone in that field nor do I discuss it with any of my clients or co-workers. I have tried to explain it to co-workers and clients before but it was never worth the endless explaining and ridicule it provoked. Let's face it, most gamers are not the most physically fit or socially adept people, so they have never made much of a positive impact on the fitness community. We are seen as fat geeky guys who lack a social life that includes members of the opposite sex. Since I do not fit the gamer stereotype, I often find it hard to defend the gamer lifestyle. Darrian (stealth gamer) what if somebody has spot? shouldnt try to hide it to well caus than u end up lying to ppl, and well lets jus say somedoay you're gonna roll a 1 for bluff =/
babysamurai 08-04-05, 10:47 AM	what if somebody has spot? shouldnt try to hide it to well caus than u end up lying to ppl, and well lets jus say somedoay you're gonna roll a 1 for bluff =/ See, this is the problem people.
Illion the Red 08-04-05, 10:51 AM	See, this is the problem people. It's not a problem...it's jargon. We are on a common forum where shuch jargon is well understood and accepted. If such a statement were to be made in general conversation, then I'd be moderately inclined to agree with you, but on these boards, such comments are wholly appropriate.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 10:53 AM	It's not a problem...it's jargon. We are on a common forum where shuch jargon is well understood and accepted. If such a statement were to be made in general conversation, then I'd be moderately inclined to agree with you, but on these boards, such comments are wholly appropriate. charisma: 18 ^^
TheDarknessWithin 08-04-05, 11:10 AM	I've played D&D for years now meeting a lot of my highschool friends through it. I would never be ashamed if anyone asked me if I played D&D I'd openly admit to them. I'm not ashamed of my pastimes or hobbies but when it comes down to it if people really don't understand why we game then why even bother trying to explain to them? Everyone I hang out with knows I play D&D and I'm not aftraid to admit it. Despite the teasing and heckling I get from my family everyone else knows why we game, its for the social interaction. It provides another great way to meet new people and it allows for great friendships and lifelong friends to be made over the years.
babysamurai 08-04-05, 11:41 AM	It's not a problem...it's jargon. We are on a common forum where shuch jargon is well understood and accepted. If such a statement were to be made in general conversation, then I'd be moderately inclined to agree with you, but on these boards, such comments are wholly appropriate. I don't think it matters if you're talking to gamers or non-gamers, there are still universally dorky ways in which to compose yourself.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 11:52 AM	I don't think it matters if you're talking to gamers or non-gamers, there are still universally dorky ways in which to compose yourself. without being rude? caus u need to learn that T_T
High Octane 08-04-05, 11:58 AM	In my speech class, I had to do a speech about myself. Since D&D is a major part of it, I mentioned it. But above all, I told them I was a nerd. I started my speech saying this: "Hi. My name is (name undisclosed) and I am a nerd. If you don't like that, you have my express permission to kiss my ass." I went on to talk about all the things I do as a nerd, including D&D, and ended up fielding a few questions about how the game is played (basic stuff, like what we roll dice for). I said over and over again, I am proud of who I am and proud to be a nerd. I said it with sincerety. Afterwards some of my classmates said I had by far the best speech.
babysamurai 08-04-05, 11:59 AM	without being rude? caus u need to learn that T_T Please post in English, I have no idea what you're on about. By the way, what does T_T mean? I'm sorry, but I'm one of those people that refuses to communicate in acronyms and lame gamer-speak.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 12:04 PM	Please post in English, I have no idea what you're on about. By the way, what does T_T mean? I'm sorry, but I'm one of those people that refuses to communicate in acronyms and lame gamer-speak. learn how to read english
Illion the Red 08-04-05, 12:10 PM	learn how to read english I'm sorry, but it was a legitamate question, albeit couched in a bit of a condescending manner. I have no idea what T_T means either. Resorting to insults is certainly not the preferred way for any of us to express ourselves here.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 12:12 PM	I'm sorry, but it was a legitamate question, albeit couched in a bit of a condescending manner. I have no idea what T_T means either. Resorting to insults is certainly not the preferred way for any of us to express ourselves here. T_T is a glaring face. if you look at it the t's are like eyes that are glaring at you, and the _ is a mouth.
High Octane 08-04-05, 12:13 PM	Stop Hijacking A Good Thread For Flame Wars!
Asciiman 08-04-05, 12:15 PM	Yes I'm embarrassed, and you should be too. We play D&D for godsake. But I'll tell you what, if I ever get laid for playing D&D(AND THE GOOD KIND OF LAID), then I'll take it back and NOT be ashamed.
babysamurai 08-04-05, 12:16 PM	learn how to read english Learn how to spell, chief.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 12:20 PM	Learn how to spell, chief. learn manners =/
Vrykolas2k 08-04-05, 12:23 PM	I play rugby. I play D&D. Each has its place, and I feel no shame saying I play either. I do wear rugby shirts around town, as well as "gamer geek" type stuff. Those who don't admit to their hobbies et cetera are insecure and need to re-evaluate themselves.
Nyarlathotep 08-04-05, 12:24 PM	As for the dorkiness of using gamer jargon, it really depends on the situation. If I am talking to one of my gamer friends and he can't find something that is sitting in plain sight and I say "Looks like you rolled a 1 on your spot check, bud", it's an in-joke and nothing more. If I say the same thing to my non-gaming co-worker, that's is kind of dorky. There is a world of difference between the two situations.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 12:52 PM	Yes I'm embarrassed, and you should be too. We play D&D for godsake. But I'll tell you what, if I ever get laid for playing D&D(AND THE GOOD KIND OF LAID), then I'll take it back and NOT be ashamed. are u joking o_O
Jarric 08-04-05, 02:50 PM	I'm not ashamed of playing D&D. I'm a pretty popular guy so if someone wants to make fun of me about it someone will tell them to cut the ****.
lady_ghofen 08-04-05, 03:08 PM	Am I ashamed of playing D&D? *laughs* Nope. I often read the novels and/or rulebooks in public, and if someone is curious, I'll feel free to tell them about it. I've had some people joke about it lightly, but no one has ever accused me of being a cat-skinning devil worshipper because of it. I'm a geek; it's what I enjoy!!
lonesoldier 08-04-05, 03:26 PM	I would say I am a bit embarrassed about it, just as I am a bit embarrassed about liking porn. But I am not ashamed. Same. :b I opened up about RPGs in summer school, turns out that one guy plays D&D and another is playing CoC with her boyfriend. Yay!
ImmortalBlueMage 08-04-05, 05:35 PM	I'm really having trouble believing the number of people who are emberassed of their hobby. Honestly, you all need to loosen up and realize that there are far more important things in life than what other people think of the way you spend your free time.
Iron Kobold 08-04-05, 05:54 PM	One thing I've been searching for... What happened to the link I get the dreaded 404 error?!?! So this leads me to two options: A. I am dumb and have no idea on how to access geeklords ... Mr.Newfox please help me out. B. Its down becuase of legal actions, the content was garbage, or something better is on the way... So what is it?
-Shade- 08-04-05, 05:55 PM	I'd have to say that I am a little bit embarrassed. My friends act even more geeky than I do. I like to play it cool. If and when a person asks, I say that I play D&D, no more than another person would say 'I play poker', or 'I like to watch football'. That usually gets a positive response, especially from my circle of geek friends. My hardcore D&D friends, however, are total fanboys, and it's so embarrassing. For example, half their analogies come from D&D, popular movies, or other obscure geek BS. They make horrid puns (not jokes, but puns, which haven't been funny since the 1950's) and most of them involve some sort of geek stuff like D&D. Sometimes they will use these analogies in public! I mean, sure, I understand them and so do my friends, but the average joe on a transit bus will think that we're freaks! I love D&D. It's my favorite hobby. But I don't make gaming an all encompassing part of my life. But they do. Most of their talk is about gaming, anime or tv shows... geek stuff. So to hear them chatter about nothing but that... I barely even learn about themselves! The worse geek moment... myself and a roommate went to the pool, had a swim, then went to hot tub. My roommate insisted that while we kill time in the hot tub that we do a one on one LARP (just spoken, no movements). I didn't want to look like a jackass, so I said no. Then he insisted... wouldn't stop bothering me about it... then kept accusing me of being no fun and having no love for life... so I gave in and played along... all while feeling like an idiot. I'm not embarrassed about D&D. I'm well past that. I'm ashamed of being a geek, because... look at the example of my friends! Why would I want to be glommed together into that group!?!?! They're silly, inane, mundane at times, act superior when they are clearly not... I don't want to be seen as that either!
mvincent 08-04-05, 06:04 PM	I'm really having trouble believing the number of people who are emberassed of their hobby. Honestly, you all need to loosen up and realize that there are far more important things in life than what other people think of the way you spend your free time.To play devil's advocate: it's possible that having people in our hobby that aren't at all concerned about societal norms might be the cause of the embarrassment in the first place. D&D tends to attract it's share of unconventional people, and while the "don't care what other people think" advice sounds like a noble notion, that's just possibly what's ruining things for the people that do value wider social interactions. (and yes, being unconcerned with societal norms will limit your social interactions. That's just how things just work).
mvincent 08-04-05, 06:11 PM	One thing I've been searching for... What happened to the link I get the dreaded 404 error?!?! So this leads me to two options: A. I am dumb and have no idea on how to access geeklordsIf you are refering to the cafepress.com link at the beginning of this thread, it appears to have a typo in it (leading instead to cafpress.com). I used this (http://www.cafepress.com/geeklords) instead and it seemed to work.
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 06:16 PM	why is most everyone admitting to be a geek? dnd is not just a geeks game =/
mvincent 08-04-05, 06:24 PM	My roommate insisted that while we kill time in the hot tub that we do a one on one LARPI'm now officially horrified... but I can't turn away... I must know... what roles and/or encounters did he have in mind? Does this make me LARP curious?
ImmortalBlueMage 08-04-05, 06:29 PM	To play devil's advocate: it's possible that having people in our hobby that aren't at all concerned about societal norms might be the cause of the embarrassment in the first place. Well you know once a week during football season I turn on the TV and I see many unnattractive out of shape balding 40 year old men standing almost completely naked in the rain and cold, covered with paint and occasionally sporting hats shaped like cheese, screaming hollering and jumping around on national television in front of millions of people, usually drunk, occassionally pouring alcoholic beverages all over themselves in the midst of their fandom frenzy. None of those guys make normal people emberassed to be football fans though.
StormKnight 08-04-05, 06:31 PM	Yeah, I'm sometimes embarrassed about liking D&D. Its sort of like a guilty, sinful thing around people who can't imagine why you would ever play it over other RPGs. Or is that not what you meant? :)
xlawedjeanne 08-04-05, 06:31 PM	Well you know once a week during football season I turn on the TV and I see many unnattractive out of shape balding 40 year old men standing almost completely naked in the rain and cold, covered with paint and occasionally sporting hats shaped like cheese, screaming hollering and jumping around on national television in front of millions of people, usually drunk, occassionally pouring alcoholic beverages all over themselves in the midst of their fandom frenzy. None of those guys make normal people emberassed to be football fans though. fans would be embarresed by their team, not some loser yelling.
Bogwater 08-04-05, 06:46 PM	Let's face it: D&D may not even be the most geeky thing people do, and if that's the case with you, then I suspect you have already suffered a lifetime of taunts and torment due to your pasttimes and/or appearance. People reinforce these things, as well. If you walk around with a viking helmet and a dungeon master's t-shirt, then you invite such derision. If you reference anime programs and talk about failing your will save in public, then you deserve to be ridiculed til the sun goes down. If you wear sandals and have an awesome unix beard, well, there's only so much hope for you, fat-boy. We have to rescue our hobby from the hopeless nerds that give the rest of us a bad name. I do my part my shunning these people in general. I have plenty of normal friends to hang out with and play D&D. I'm not so desperate that I 'need' comic book guy in my group just to run a game. Gamers should be ****** off about this, too. Why should we let a few social misfits ruin what could otherwise be a mainstream hobby? D&D could be unbelieveably awesome, but instead we get all kinds of creap from people because of the minority. Take back D&D for yourselves, people.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-04-05, 06:47 PM	That's right, because the actions of one football fan do not reflect directly on the actions of others. Just like some guy who's 100 lbs over weight, hasn't showered in a week, and wears a Powerpuff Girls tshirt one size too small to gaming conventions doesn't reflect directly on me or any other gamer.
mvincent 08-04-05, 06:55 PM	None of those guys make normal people emberassed to be football fans though.Ponder... Good analogy. There are pros and cons to that point, but basically it got me to think long enough to decide that it's not really the people that play the game that have the biggest effect. It's the people that made the game, and the subject matter (fantasy). Games are mainstream. Easy combat games and wargames can be mainstream. Roleplaying can be mainstream (example: How to host a Murder Mystery). Fantasy however is harder to make mainstream, and it will always be a bit geeky (even if everyone loves it: like Star Wars and LOTR). Complex rules are also going to be geeky (beside being an intellectual pursuit, they require a bit of fanaticism). However, if mainstream companies had mass produced simple RPG's using mainstream genre's*, we would probably all be proudly wearing RPG t-shirts. *Maybe ones based on Raiders of the lost Arc, The living Dead, James Bond or Lost
Gedrin 08-04-05, 06:58 PM	I personally own a Knights of the Dinner Table shirt. It has a hole in it from being worn. So, some people will indeed buy such items. I'd wear it around the house, to the park, to get groceries...but not to work. I treat D&D like my other hobbies. Of course, my other hobbies are "geek hobbies" too, so maybe that means nothing.
Bowlich 08-04-05, 07:10 PM	I don't find anything embarassing about d&d, its just a hobby like anything else. Are football players ashamed that they play football? Do bridge players hide that they play bridge? What about poker players? Now, I don't go around advertising that I play d&d, if someone asks me what I do in my free time I'll tell them, but in no way do I go out of my way to hide it. Infact, I usually plan my d&d sessions during my lunch breaks at work. No one's even bothered me about why I carry around a stack of d&d books with my lunch bag--the only remarks I've gotten where whether I'm taking summer classes at the local college.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-04-05, 07:21 PM	We have to rescue our hobby from the hopeless nerds that give the rest of us a bad name. I do my part my shunning these people in general. That's really dismaying. I would hope that having faced gamer stigma yourself you'd at least not be a dick to other gamers even if you don't enjoy their company. I say however people want to have fun, let them. You're assuming that if someone else is a "HUGE nerd" you for some reason look bad by association. The fact is it's your own hang-ups that are causing these feelings of persecution, and you shouldn't be taking them out on other people just because you're making yourself feel self-concious.
High Octane 08-04-05, 09:08 PM	I am not embarassed about playing D&D, but that doesnt mean I bring it up iwith everyone I talk to. Just my friends who also play. I bring it up if they ask what my hobbys are, but I dont ramble on about it. Its social common sense to not talk about things that the people you are talking to dont know about or care about or both.
chronic burning baggins 08-04-05, 10:36 PM	Let's face it: D&D may not even be the most geeky thing people do, and if that's the case with you, then I suspect you have already suffered a lifetime of taunts and torment due to your pasttimes and/or appearance. People reinforce these things, as well. If you walk around with a viking helmet and a dungeon master's t-shirt, then you invite such derision. If you reference anime programs and talk about failing your will save in public, then you deserve to be ridiculed til the sun goes down. If you wear sandals and have an awesome unix beard, well, there's only so much hope for you, fat-boy. We have to rescue our hobby from the hopeless nerds that give the rest of us a bad name. I do my part my shunning these people in general. I have plenty of normal friends to hang out with and play D&D. I'm not so desperate that I 'need' comic book guy in my group just to run a game. Gamers should be ****** off about this, too. Why should we let a few social misfits ruin what could otherwise be a mainstream hobby? D&D could be unbelieveably awesome, but instead we get all kinds of creap from people because of the minority. Take back D&D for yourselves, people. Hit the nail on the head, Bog. I agree that the hobby needs to be weeded of these nerdlings before they get it into their heads that any type of jerko behavior is acceptable. And as for that comment which alluded such behavior is a product of our own self-consciousness, I say bah, rubbish to you. I have no anxiety about this hobby whatsoever, but I do consider myself to be its self-appointed guardian. So to the social-maladroits I say, go nerd it up somewhere else, dweebo, this hobby's going places, and you're not helping it get there.
Hairfoot 08-04-05, 10:44 PM	Here's a poser: The biggest gripe with the D&D stigma seems to be lack of appeal with women. So, what would be a woman's equivalent of D&D shame? Considered replies, please. I'm not trolling for mysogynists.
Engrimm 08-05-05, 11:52 PM	I once got in a fight with a guy while I was wearing my "+20 shirt of smiting". I can handle myself well enough...but I think the shirt gave me a little extra something.
MasterRookie 08-06-05, 12:31 AM	Ashamed Pah. No. Even my cooler friends have played it and admit its a fun game. I have no problem admiting I play. I don't advertise it because it would give the impression I'm obsessed or something. DnD is bad for an initial impression, who wants to be known as "the DnD player" or some worse versions.
koragnar 08-06-05, 12:36 AM	Here's a poser: The biggest gripe with the D&D stigma seems to be lack of appeal with women. So, what would be a woman's equivalent of D&D shame? Considered replies, please. I'm not trolling for mysogynists. Yeah I agree. Wizards did a good job trying to hide that by making all the pronouns they could in 3.5 "she". as for embarrased, of course. I dont really mention it to people, but if anyone asks I have a prepared witty comment of "fun rainy day boardgame"
kaeso 08-06-05, 12:37 AM	Hit the nail on the head, Bog. I agree that the hobby needs to be weeded of these nerdlings before they get it into their heads that any type of jerko behavior is acceptable. And as for that comment which alluded such behavior is a product of our own self-consciousness, I say bah, rubbish to you. I have no anxiety about this hobby whatsoever, but I do consider myself to be its self-appointed guardian. So to the social-maladroits I say, go nerd it up somewhere else, dweebo, this hobby's going places, and you're not helping it get there. wow, that is a terrible thing to say. just because someone's a nerd doesnt mean that they shouldn't be allowed to play, thats just stupid. im personally the short skinny kid thats in the advanced classes, and i play D&D. you know what? im not going anywhere.
impsych0 08-06-05, 01:43 AM	When I introduced my girlfriend to D&D, just before the start of 3rd edition, she wasn't sure what to make of it but after setting in on a few gaming sessions she tried it out and now can't stand to go a week without playing. Of course, when she started playing and we would go to this or that bookstore to look at new supplements, I had to tell her my first and second rules of D&D. Impsych0's First Rule of Dungeons & Dragons: Never talk about D&D in public, or around people who are not known to be players of D&D. Impsych0's Second Rule of Dungeons & Dragons: Never forget the first rule. Now, I bet that makes me seem fairly embarrassed about playing the game, but I'm not (ok, maybe a little bit). The real reason behind the two rules is to avoid unnecessary discussions, tainted first impressions, or something similar with people who are not already assimilated. Though, I must admit that before I became 'interested' in girls :rolleyes: I wasn't really conscious of the negative stereotype that gamers have. Damn women have taken a lot of precious gaming time away from my friends and me over the years. At least now I get to play D&D and spend time with my girlfriend simultaneously. :D I enjoy fantasy and science-fiction as much as the next person with geekish tendencies, but there is just NO excuse for poor hygiene. I'm an avid gamer and lover of sci-fi fantasy, but I still shop at Express for Men, and have other metro-sexual tendencies. A large part of the stereotyping of D&D players is due to people for whom appearances mean little or nothing. It doesn't take many unkempt, seemingly social rejects to ruin our image as gamers. Please understand that I am not making a blanket statement, not all gamers help to perpetuate the stereotypes, but many do. In my local hobby store there is a sign posted near the entrance reminding people to bathe before coming to play games. All that said, I'd probably wear a D&D related t-shirt if it were cool enough. As an aside, caring about appearances does not make one shallow, only caring about appearances does. Also, I noticed some conservative gamers among the previous posters; it is to them that I address my next statement (some of the conservatives and the rest of you probably won't understand). Only a more Savage Nation can survive!
lonesoldier 08-06-05, 01:44 AM	Well, today I threw on my Fifth Dawn/DCI Magic: Teh Gathering T-shirt (from the prerelease) and my Halo 2 hat (got it 'cause I preordered) and went out into public. I didn't get any funny looks, one kid went crazy, pointing and yelling at me (well, the hat). He was all like, "Holy $|-|17" really loud, and then dropped his voice to an awed whisper, "He has the hat..." I felt special. EDIT: I also threw on pants. ;)
Bartleby_GoC 08-06-05, 02:06 AM	Heh. I have a tendancy to jabber when I get nervious. I met Kitten at a VtM larp, so I figured gaming was a safe topic. Our first date I aparently talke about favorite moments and characters for three hours. She says she was thinking "Heck all need to do is show him my jugs (she uses a diferent word, but trying to avoid rule difficulties) and he'll forget about the games." What actually happened is I brought the jugs to game. Now, she's quickly becoming a good DM. I am clearly not ashamed. I read the books in public. I plan my games in public. I've taught my older kids to play. (it is GREAT for encouraging reading and basic math skills, not to mention abstract thinking and imagination) My ex absolutely hated gaming. I imagine she's not pleased the kids love D&D. I'll gladly tell someone I'm a gamer. ESPECIALLY some uber-religious nutcase. I love long religious debates. The fun ones end up with them contradicting themselves and complaining that I'm using logic. Bartleby
UltimateReality 08-06-05, 02:16 AM	First, D&D: nope. Like others, I read the books in public. I also have a propensity for asking wierd questions because they relate to an adventure I'm planning. And secondly, about shirts: I would so wear them if I could find them. Shirts + work is a bit iffier...though I'm still really surprised I managed to pull off that Family Guy one with Stewie that said "You Suck!"...
ImmortalBlueMage 08-06-05, 02:24 AM	So to the social-maladroits I say, go nerd it up somewhere else, dweebo, this hobby's going places, and you're not helping it get there. Look at that, D&D is becoming trendy, complete with it's own set of obnoxious self-important trend setters. Who'd have thought? Well, you can go ahead with your "big plans" for "your game", I'll stay behind with the "social maldroits", they're better company. I am not ashamed to play D&D, but guys like this might someday make me.
R-man 08-06-05, 03:32 AM	Ashamed?...No. But I don't usually go around bringing it up simply because it bores most people to tears to start talking about your gaming unless they are also gamers. If it comes up in conversation i will discuss it and allow the conversation to go were it will i.e. if the person is interested they will ask questions and show interest if they are not they will comment that's nice and move along to some other topic.
Siduakal 08-06-05, 03:43 AM	Eh I'm not that way. Granted, I won't open up as a pickup line .. "Wanna play D&D?" But I don't care to hide it.. No point. I'm not the stereotypical nerd that people think plays D&D. So when I say it, sometimes I get taunted. Othertimes they do the "Oh that's cool (Change of topic)" to avoid saying something out of place.. And the one person who has actually been a true idiot about it got clocked.. -shrug- I don't see a point in hiding it. Lifes too short to care what people think.. ...unless they're female. I'm just weak to females, they're my kryptonite.. =P PLus, I'm going to DragonCon as my first con this year, and I'm going with a net and a safari outfit with a No Pixies sign on the safari hat.. I shall be the Pixie Hunter..
-Shade- 08-06-05, 05:30 AM	My idea of proper etiquette as a geek and a RPG'er: -Don't wear a bullseye: All of these rules are meant for you to do one thing... to avoid getting negative and undue attention due to your nerdy tendancies. Positive attention is good, but the average person will most likely think of you negatively if you look overtly nerdy. So try to blend in. Stay calm and try not to be overtly excitable. Dress normal. Act calm and cool. Try to be nice, and speak without any overly aggressive or forward tones. And for god sakes, personal space is supposed to be personal. Try not to get in anyone's grilles! Instead, blend in, go about your business, and just ride everything out. Because after all, you won't get any flak if you don't give anyone a reason. -If they don't ask, they don't care: Try not to go out of your way to say that you're a geek or a gamer, or try to use it as an ice breaker. Try to guage the situation first, probe a little, then make mention of it if and ONLY IF it is safe to do so. -Never advertise: Put away the geeky RPG shirts or computer promotional clothing. That just looks... dorky. That, and alot of those shirts lack aethetic sense anyways. -Tone it down a little: Do you have accountants approaching you and bothering you about their stupid little formulas, or statiticians about their charts? Then why are you :censored:ing about the merits and flaws of a game... in public... loudly... in front of people who think you're being a total loser? -Read, but don't be read: Sure, read a D&D book in public, but try not to look like you're grabbing attention just because you have a D&D book out in public. Just look like you're reading, because that's all the book is for! If possible, use a binder, backpack, or paper to hide the cover. And yes, people will approach you and ask about the game, showing interest or wanting to chat about the hobby. Frankly, i'm not to keen about this, because it distracts me from reading. Bug off. If you see another person reading a D&D book, give him a nod or say that you play as well, but keep it at that. Leave the shop talk at the hobby store. -Analyze your analogies: Not every RPG anecdote will amuse everyone. Honestly, do your friends at the dance club think your story about rolling a nat 20 at the right time to slay that red dragon is amusing? And for that matter, do they even know what a nat 20 is? Do they know what you're talking about? Or even... why you're talking about it? Did they have to be there to understand it like every other private joke of your repetoire? If you can't answer all these questions... you better save it for another time and another group of people. -No, don't whip it out: We don't want to hear you brag about your character build, or about how well you can use or abuse a system, or about your collection of miniatures and books, or about how much hentai you can download in a single month. I know geeks like this. They do this because they want to feel big or special. They want adulations. They want to satisfy their egos. Well, your ego is the last thing that needs to be fed. In fact, the best way to respond to this is to tell the offender, "So what?", or in the case of previous experience, "I did that once. So?", or if you want to be mean, "That's not such a big deal.". Takes the wind right out of their sails. -Hygiene: It's a good thing. At least shower, brush your teeth, and use some deodorant. I know too many geek friends who don't do this, and sitting beside them can be an assault on my nose, and it does get awkward trying to tell your friend to clean up a little! So save your neighbors the trouble and clean! -It's just a hobby: That is the most important rule. It is not all encompassing. It is not meant to make life worth living. It is not supposed to take more of your time than say... work. It is just a game... treat it as such. -These rules apply to all geek stigma hobbies: Anime, furries, computer gaming, computer programming, computers, artists, writers, sci-fi fans... you can all learn from these rules. -Don't try to drag your friends down with you: Please, don't pressure your friends to do anything uncomfortable and embarrassing, even if you don't think it is so bad. Maybe your friend isn't so comfortable doing a one on one RPG in the hottub at the public pool, or maybe they don't want to play Yugioh in the middle of lunchhour at MacDonalds. Try to consider your friends before yourself. I may be harsh, but I have seen all of these rule violations. I have seen friends violate all these rules and get burned by them... even by their fellow gamers. I have also felt the harsh sting of criticism for my hobby itself. I have made these mistakes and was burned as well. I have even talked to normal people (such as coworkers, schoolmates, college friends, etc...) and have been essentially told to not be such a damn nerd. And you know what? It works! Around normal people, I get a much more positive response from them. And I really like not being called a geek and a nerd with such venom. I have testimony too. My geeky friends say that i'm the most 'sane' person of my group, the easiest one to get along with, and the the most likely person not to outright annoy anybody. I'm not the leader of the group, but i'm the least likely to be caught up in the group's trivial little dramas, mostly started by their geeky little quirks. I'm the peacemaker and the dispute killer, the one to calm my friends down when they get out of hand, because I'm the one that doesn't let my nerdiness get the best of me. The fact is... I love to be normal... as normal as I can get. It sounds cruel, but in reality it is pretty damn good. Try it sometime.
Malice Duskblade 08-06-05, 09:14 AM	I used to be ashamed. When I went to my favorite store, I'd wait until people cleared from the area the game section was in, unless people were there already. Ironically, I've never stood there next to a "nerd". I'd pick up a book, and start reading. Is this the book I want to buy? But lately, I just am not afraid. I go straight to the D&D section, pick up a book, and get into it. Some people will look at me, but I smile back they go back to their books. When there's people already in the section, they don't look nerdy or anything. They look fine. I often talk with them, and they're really cool people, not nerds living in their parents basement who don't know what a woman feels like. I certainly don't look like a nerd. I've got hair to my belt and an 8 inch goatee, perfectly straight (secret not included). I'm often asked if I play in a band. I have zero musical talent. The stigmata is changing. Dungeons and Dragons is NOT a game enjoyed only by nerds. I don't have a problem telling people what I do with my Saturday nights. I am proud of it. I greatly enjoy spending Saturday night around a combat table modified from a dry erase board, with a cold homebrew in a frosted mug, my dice, papers and minis before me and my closest friends ready for adventure. Some people ask me what Dungeons and Dragons is about. I tell them that I tell a story of heroic deeds and epic conflict, and my closest friends get to be the main characters.
LiXinjian 08-06-05, 09:40 AM	Now, I bet that makes me seem fairly embarrassed about playing the game, but I'm not (ok, maybe a little bit). The real reason behind the two rules is to avoid unnecessary discussions, tainted first impressions, or something similar with people who are not already assimilated. Kinda like crack, man. Don't let them know you're on the rock before they too get hooked. You don't want some kinda bad rep, ya know? ;)
bakomusha 08-06-05, 09:50 AM	i use to not care about who knew i gamed till i was denied a job cause thay asked me "besides bills what will you spend your income on?" i repled "dungeons and dragons books, and other gaming hobies" thay denied me cause thay said " satanic and other none morle activitys,do not relect the standerds of our company" i was ganna sue but then thay whent out of busnes before i could get a lawyer.
Horatio Hornblower 08-06-05, 10:18 AM	i use to not care about who knew i gamed till i was denied a job cause thay asked me "besides bills what will you spend your income on?" i repled "dungeons and dragons books, and other gaming hobies" thay denied me cause thay said " satanic and other none morle activitys,do not relect the standerds of our company" i was ganna sue but then thay whent out of busnes before i could get a lawyer. This is what I was talking about earlier. Of course you can sue, but it's easier not to talk about it at work in the first place. Stick to being "professional" and small talk about so-called "normal" subjects. Remember it's work. When you're not at work you can be yourself and socialize with the crowd of your choice. If you run into someone who openly objects to you then who cares. They're a jerk and you can respond to them anyway you want.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-06-05, 10:53 AM	My idea of proper etiquette as a geek and a RPG'er: -Don't wear a bullseye: So try to blend in. Stay calm and try not to be overtly excitable. Dress normal. Act calm and cool. Remember, don't ever try to act like the real you, individuality is NOT the way to be accepted in society. Find the norm and conform to it as quickly and publically as possible. -make mention of it if and ONLY IF it is safe to do so. Be careful out there, people have been known to lynch gamers on the spot in some parts of the country, safety first. -Never advertise: Put away the geeky RPG shirts or computer promotional clothing. That just looks... dorky. That, and alot of those shirts lack aethetic sense anyways. Remember, clothing is there not as a form of personal expression but as a way for you to demonstrate just how much you care about being like everyone else. Then why are you :censored:ing about the merits and flaws of a game... in public... loudly... in front of people who think you're being a total loser? Because my friend asked me? What am I supposed to do, say "Hey, there's outsiders around, dont' talk about the game when there's outsiders around!" Yeah, that'll make me look non-geeky... -Hygiene: It's a good thing. At least shower, brush your teeth, and use some deodorant. I know too many geek friends who don't do this, and sitting beside them can be an assault on my nose, and it does get awkward trying to tell your friend to clean up a little! So save your neighbors the trouble and clean! Constantly remind your gamer friends to excercise proper hygiene. Also, constantly remind your black friends not to steal your wallet, constantly ask your latino friends how they got across the border, and constantly remind your gay friends "Don't be checking out my package!" Stereotypes are the key to healthy human interaction. Oh, I also have one rule to add myself: Whatever you do, don't subscribe or take part in online gamer forums. If there's anything more geeky than playing D&D, it's talking about D&D in the internet. Look, I'll be the first to admit there are gamers out there with problems, serious problems, but you know what, that's true of any hobby. I dont approach random people on the street to ask them what Feat I should take next level, nor have I comissioned a life-sized portrait of my favorite PC to hang in my den, but I don't feel like I need to game in a cave to avoid public ridicule and constantly be looking over my shoulder to make sure that the geek gestapo doesn't haul me away either. People here are way too hung up on their own cliched stereotypes and blatantly self-concious insecurity. If you're emberassed to paly D&D, go deal with that yourself, don't lash out at everyone else. Realize that what other gamers do is not a commentary on you as a person, you are responsible only for your own thoughts and actions. If people are reacting negatively to you, perhaps it has less to do with Comic Book Guy and more to do with yourself? Plus you know what, some people are just *******s, they'll ridicule you over anything because that's what they do, so why go out of your way to try to please them? Your reaction when someone shuns you for your hobbies should not be "Oh my god, how can I get them to LIKE me??", generally you should be relieved that you're not stuck associating with someone who clearly has deep-seated social problems of their own.
the black knight 08-06-05, 01:03 PM	Remember, don't ever try to act like the real you, individuality is NOT the way to be accepted in society. Find the norm and conform to it as quickly and publically as possible. Be careful out there, people have been known to lynch gamers on the spot in some parts of the country, safety first. Remember, clothing is there not as a form of personal expression but as a way for you to demonstrate just how much you care about being like everyone else. Because my friend asked me? What am I supposed to do, say "Hey, there's outsiders around, dont' talk about the game when there's outsiders around!" Yeah, that'll make me look non-geeky... Constantly remind your gamer friends to excercise proper hygiene. Also, constantly remind your black friends not to steal your wallet, constantly ask your latino friends how they got across the border, and constantly remind your gay friends "Don't be checking out my package!" Stereotypes are the key to healthy human interaction. Oh, I also have one rule to add myself: Whatever you do, don't subscribe or take part in online gamer forums. If there's anything more geeky than playing D&D, it's talking about D&D in the internet. Look, I'll be the first to admit there are gamers out there with problems, serious problems, but you know what, that's true of any hobby. I dont approach random people on the street to ask them what Feat I should take next level, nor have I comissioned a life-sized portrait of my favorite PC to hang in my den, but I don't feel like I need to game in a cave to avoid public ridicule and constantly be looking over my shoulder to make sure that the geek gestapo doesn't haul me away either. People here are way too hung up on their own cliched stereotypes and blatantly self-concious insecurity. If you're emberassed to paly D&D, go deal with that yourself, don't lash out at everyone else. Realize that what other gamers do is not a commentary on you as a person, you are responsible only for your own thoughts and actions. If people are reacting negatively to you, perhaps it has less to do with Comic Book Guy and more to do with yourself? Plus you know what, some people are just *******s, they'll ridicule you over anything because that's what they do, so why go out of your way to try to please them? Your reaction when someone shuns you for your hobbies should not be "Oh my god, how can I get them to LIKE me??", generally you should be relieved that you're not stuck associating with someone who clearly has deep-seated social problems of their own. Wow, a bitter, sarcastic D&D player. You must be a devil with the ladies.
OmiKapSi 08-06-05, 02:18 PM	I'm not ashamed of playing D&D. At one point I was reticent to tell people about what I did in my spare time, but I've branched out (I rock climb and write), and developed some social awareness. I have a DCI shirt that I wear as regularly as my other shirts, and I've not yet gotten any commentary on it (positive or negative). I don't know how likely I'd buy something that specifically had a D&D association, but I find anything with dragons or fantasy themes interesting. Just a note on the side discussion, about how to be a gamer but not a geek (that's how I see it). I'm a geek, and I like being a geek. I'm not socially maladjusted, but I don't avoid those who are. I know what it's like to be shunned, and I'm thankful that I had friends who showed me by example that it's possible (and not even very hard) to adopt certain simple behaviors to avoid social stigma. Let's face it, we are a social species, and as nice as it would be if everyone accepted people for who they were, there are some out there who can be a little closed minded. Black knight, was it really necessary to quote that entire post? I bet you could have achieved the same effect with just a portion. -edit: I'm a 26 year old single male student, just for statistical reference, this is a poll after all.
-Shade- 08-06-05, 02:36 PM	I thought ImmortalBlueMage was kinda funny. What he saw as conforming to everyone else, I saw it as 'not looking like a jackass in front of everyone'. What he sees as stereotyping, I actually see in practice among my geek friends. They are the stereotype. Sad but true. Where the hell did that black and latino crap come from? That's like comparing George Bush to Adolph Hitler; TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT! What he sees as my insecurities coming out... maybe, but I see them more like myself exercising common sense. Oh... and my friends don't ask me. Thank you very much. Just like I don't ask them, but they talk nonetheless. Call me what you will, but I am the stereotypical geek, and I have tried to live 'normally'. And you know what? I like it a hell of alot better. I'm not so ridiculed on the street. I'm not pushed around so often, if ever. I find my interactions with other people to be a bit more friendlier. I no longer a reject! So i'm insecure, and perhaps I think too highly of others opinions, but when you were constantly bombarded with insults and made the fool in front of others for as long as I, the alternative starts to look pretty sweet. Who the hell are you to say my way is terrible?
Siduakal 08-06-05, 02:44 PM	Ah for poll purposes.. I'm a 21 year old. Recently discharged US Army Infantry. Maybe it's the dog tags that deter the insults.
Demon God of Conquest 08-06-05, 03:51 PM	As much as I hate to feed the flames, I too dislike the nerd factor of D&D. I can't count how many of my past games would have progressed more smoothly had it not been for socially inept gamers that found their way to the table. Don't these people know how to bathe, not to mention dress themselves, or even hold a reasonably normal conversation with a fellow human being? And it's not that they don't fit in, it's the aggressive attitude that they must somehow be right about everything, arguing til the sun goes down about every frigging detail of the game. Who knows, maybe it's the internet and the fact that people can now unload with both barrels without getting the customary bloody nose they would otherwise receive for being so rude to people, or maybe it's the fact that such people never learned how to get along with others because they were never accepted themselves, but whatever the case, I've had it with such types and take pains to keep them out of my games. And to the poster who spoke of D&D as becoming a mainstream hobby, well, why shouldn't it be? Why should it remain some niche hobby and a haven for people who cannot get along with other people? I say put the game in the limelight and let it flourish, but first kill the stereotypes that have damaged the game.
DmMagnus 08-06-05, 04:04 PM	I am Ashamed of saying that I am A bit ashamed of playing DnD. I dont know about other countrys but In norway DnD has a kinda geeky reputation. When I started playing a year ago me and my friend never mentioned to our other friends what we were doing late thuesday (did i spell that right?) nights.. But it is diffrent now. I know most of my friends know that I am playing DnD and they dont care, they understand that I think it is funny.. But I never tell girls about it, because they are the once that thinks RPG is geeky (or so I think). This sucks since I often have to come up with some wierd excuse why I cant hang out with them. It is a bit wierd that I always wisit my grandparents at wendesday 6 - 10! :P But latley I have stopped hiding my hobby. I am a Role player! Deal with it or go to hell! If your friends wont hang out with you or think you are a "geek" because of your hobbys (same if it is gaming or baseball) they are no good friends! I hope no one stop roleplaying because of they are beeing ashamed!
OmiKapSi 08-06-05, 04:41 PM	but first kill the stereotypes that have damaged the game. It's not the stereotypes, it's the people who judge it based on stereotypes.
Fell Poopsmith 08-06-05, 04:58 PM	It's not the stereotypes, it's the people who judge it based on stereotypes. Stereotypes don't form in a vacuum, they are based on reality, and sadly these stereotypes appear with more frequency in D&D than hardly anywhere else in the real world. So stop ignoring that elephant in the living room. If gamers want a better image they should start by looking in the mirror. Lose a few pounds, trim that beard once in a while, bathe for christ's sake, and make an attempt to talk about something other than nerdy hobbies when dealing with the real world. Trying to get along with people would go a long way, too, but I fear that's too much to ask for when dealing with stereotypical gamers. They're too far gone to even know how much these suggestions might help them. And if you're still unconvinced that the stereotype exists, then try attending a gamers convention sometime. Then we'll talk.
Blackwind 08-06-05, 05:12 PM	I don't see anything wrong with it. Openly playing D&D has had no negative effects on me except for a few friendly jokes from friends who don't game. But most of my friends roleplay at least a little and we're always talking in character at work. And having poeple know that I play D&D has three great side effects 1. It's one of the only way I find more players and DMs or people who want learn 2. Poeple just assume that I'm smarter then I am. 3. The really dumb poeple leave me alone cause they are afraid of me.
Jon of the North 08-06-05, 05:33 PM	Not when I have so many other things to be ashamed of. I'm a geek, D&D is just one part of my geeky empire. It doesn't come up a lot and I don't mention it to total strangers, but people who know me know I'm a geek and my friends don't seem to care. I'm the president of my school's gaming club and we need players, so I can't afford to be ashamed. I have innocent young co-eds to seduce :evillaugh Oh, maybe I could phase that better :D
Lord Raoul 08-06-05, 05:55 PM	Whilst I understand how people view playing D&D as 'geeky' I am never ashamed to admit I play D&D, everyone who knows me knows I am a geek and they don't mind. Anyone who would think less of me because of what I am (a geek/nerd whatever), I am not sure I would want to associate with in the first place. Then again I am not ashamed to walk around in Sith robes in public so that may invalidate my opinion a bit. :eek:
ImmortalBlueMage 08-06-05, 06:16 PM	Wow, a bitter, sarcastic D&D player. You must be a devil with the ladies. He bitterly, sarcastically comments on the D&D web forum. And I guess this would be my cue to show how geeky I am by trying to guess what kind of Devil you're comparing me to? I hope it's a Gelugon, they roxxor. What he saw as conforming to everyone else, I saw it as 'not looking like a jackass in front of everyone'. I agree one should not act like a jackass, but you can not act like a jackass without treating your D&D hobby like it was some sort of horrible deep dark secret that must be kept from everyone you know. What he sees as stereotyping, I actually see in practice among my geek friends. They are the stereotype. I agree, some people ARE the stereotype, but most of the rest of us are not, and when someone is sitting there lecturing me on the basics of personal hygience assuming because I play D&D that I need this information, I find that rather obnoxious and insulting. You're doing nothing but perpetuating the stereotype that much more. Oh... and my friends don't ask me. Thank you very much. Just like I don't ask them, but they talk nonetheless. People talk about their hobbies, it's not uncommon, guys who like to fly fish on the weekends will frequently be found talking to each other Monday morning about what they caught, baseball fans will spend hours comparing opinions of favorite teams and players, so D&D players are gonna talk about D&D, it's not that odd, it only seems odd to you because you seem to treat your gaming habit as some sort of shameful secret that you want to keep from the rest of the world. I'm not so ridiculed on the street. I'm not pushed around so often, if ever. I find my interactions with other people to be a bit more friendlier. I no longer a reject! So i'm insecure, and perhaps I think too highly of others opinions, but when you were constantly bombarded with insults and made the fool in front of others for as long as I, the alternative starts to look pretty sweet. I used to worry a lot about getting negative reactions from people too. Then I eventually realized that people who would treat me in that manner over my hobby are not people I want to associate with anyway, when someone acts in a manner that immature and maladjusted I count myself lucky if they want to distance themselves from me. Who the hell are you to say my way is terrible? You can live your life and play your game however you want, but when you lecture to me about it like that you'll excuse me if I get a little tiffed. And to the poster who spoke of D&D as becoming a mainstream hobby, well, why shouldn't it be? Why should it remain some niche hobby and a haven for people who cannot get along with other people? I say put the game in the limelight and let it flourish, but first kill the stereotypes that have damaged the game. That's fine, I'd love it if D&D became widely accepted. In fact, in this day and age where Harry Potter sells by the millions and where virtually every person on the planet forked out money to watch The Lord the Rings, high fantasy is in a better position to become more mainstream than ever before. But the prospect of that does not warrant an obnoxious elitist attitude that degrades the gaming community.
yossarius 08-06-05, 06:41 PM	I've been that guy at work who gets razzed because of playing rpg's. The thing is, most of my coworkers spend about as much time on sports as I do on gaming. I'd have to say I have less repect for sports as they do for my hobby, but for the most part, I keep that opionion to myself. That one 'friendly argument' though, I let it all out. About how much time they spend on something that will never positively impact their lives, how team veneration has replaced religion in modern society, how no effort ever goes into learning anything new, etc. It got bad. But after that, I never heard anything about it. Not because I changed anybody's mind, but because I am much better at arguing than they are (gee, I wonder where I picked that up from?)
the black knight 08-06-05, 10:30 PM	That's fine, I'd love it if D&D became widely accepted. In fact, in this day and age where Harry Potter sells by the millions and where virtually every person on the planet forked out money to watch The Lord the Rings, high fantasy is in a better position to become more mainstream than ever before. But the prospect of that does not warrant an obnoxious elitist attitude that degrades the gaming community. Hahahahahahaha. Dude, you're killing me. You think it's the attitude? Wake up and smell the body odor. It is the very real stereotype we see waddling across the gaming convention floor that degrades this game, and it is that reality we should confront head on. Pretend it's not there if you like, but they're your nostrils, not mine.
MasterRookie 08-06-05, 11:28 PM	Hit the nail on the head, Bog. I agree that the hobby needs to be weeded of these nerdlings before they get it into their heads that any type of jerko behavior is acceptable. And as for that comment which alluded such behavior is a product of our own self-consciousness, I say bah, rubbish to you. I have no anxiety about this hobby whatsoever, but I do consider myself to be its self-appointed guardian. So to the social-maladroits I say, go nerd it up somewhere else, dweebo, this hobby's going places, and you're not helping it get there. Going places. Oh rude one. There's no where to go. Its the most popular role playing game there is. Millions play it every day (many if not most of which are to some degree nerds). What more could you want, its own religion. Nerds aren't holding back DnD from some great conquest. The fact is DnD is a thinking game and some peopel will never like thinking games.
TheNatealator 08-06-05, 11:37 PM	Well, I guess I'm definitely in the category of "not ashamed". I've read the Core books on city busses a couple of times this past summer, and attempted to explain what it is to several people. Has anyone come up with a good way of explaining the whole thing in one or two sentences? I told a couple people that it's "make believe, with rules" before going into more detail. The question that sticks out most in my memory is "So........how do you win?"
MasterRookie 08-06-05, 11:38 PM	its like an online RPG without the computer
imperialjunkie 08-07-05, 12:00 AM	Ashamed: no. A little embarrassed: yes. I tend to refer to D&D as "the game" with my friends who play. Most of my players are new to the game and were very very skeptical at first. One session got them all hooked. They were amazed at what they were missing.
Oakspar77777 08-07-05, 12:11 AM	Those of you who know me, know that I am, among other things a Southern Baptist. Not just any Southern Baptist, but a <dramatic puase> Southern Baptist Minister. That's right. I can stand in front of a deacon board with a straight face and say that I am a Born Again, Southern Baptist, Annoited Teacher of God's Holy Word, and Proclaimer of the Good New of the Lord Jesus Christ . . . without blasphemeing or lying (I do have to make sure I say "Teacher" rather than "Preacher," because my preaching is terrible. When I'm in the pulpit, I'm sitting on a bar stool talking and teaching. I find myself to boring to get all "worked up" over what I say, so I just try to keep it short and to the point. A policy that keeps me pretty popular as a fill in.) I spent the five years of the past decade attending the most conservative Southern Baptist seminary in the country. I know the people that many of you are talking about. The ones who think that D&D = quick trip to hell. Let me assure each and every one of you that those statements are made in ignorance. According to Christian doctrine, the fact that all of you play D&D has absolutely no bearing on the eternal destination of your soul. If you are curious about what does have a bearing on that destination, please, PM me, and I will be more than happy to let you know what Christianity teaches (since that would be out of place on these boards). Those people, poor in understanding, do exist, however. Some of them are simply self-righteous zealots (and you are right to use such harsh words against them). Others of them, however, are merely ignorant, and concerned about your well being. Good meaning people, which usually includes your parants, should be respected. Take the time to find out which you are dealing with before you lose control of your temper. Otherwise, you only serve to validate their concerns. The same goes for those who act to intentionally shock. You are not doing yourself or the game any good. You are merely confirming that you are not in control of yourself and that the game is either causing or inciting your bad behavior. Think of this example, I have long hair. That has certianly closed some doors in my life. Some from older people who associate hair with the hippee movement, which was much more like "beggars on parade" than the romanticized version you see on TV. Others just assume that I am "liberal," which in conservative Christianity usually means anyone who is to the left of you. Some just think that it means that I am out to rebel and cause trouble. Of course, none of those is true. I just happen to like long hair. If I spent my time, however, preaching on how long hair is ok, whose mind would I change? No ones. The people I would hope to reach would never be open to my message and the people who would hear it would already agree with me. So, what do I do? I avoid the hair topic all together. I simply teaching sound Biblical truthes and doctrine. The people who rejected me, based on my hair, find that they cannot reject the things I teach. That is what causes them to question their predjudices against my hair. So, if you live a sound life, worth of admiration, when they find out that you game, they will accept it and want to know more about it. If you do live a slavish, oafish, and sub-standard life, but preach D&D, they will reject it, because they are predisposed to reject you. I wish people were reasonable enough to be swayed by logical disputation, but in the end, most people are motivated and moved completely by experience. That brings me to the point of my own gaming. I do game. I DM exstensively. I am currently on hiatus from my DMing for the summer, and only DMing a game with my GF (who happens to be a Childrens Minister herself). For those of you who are wondering, we don't live together. We don't have sexual relations (Clintonian or otherwise). We are, for all intents and purposes, a well known and respected Christian couple. We don't let our gaming interfere with our Bible study. She is utter ashamed of all things gaming. My books, my minis, my old M:tG folders on the shelf, etc. She is constantly afraid of being judged and having her job put in jeoparady if someone found out that she games with me. I respect her in that, and make sure not to associate her with my gaming (even though some of the staff and elders of the church know that I game, one of them being my mentoring proffessor from seminary). I, on the other hand, am a little more cavalier. After all, right now my primary vocation is teaching, which means I am not at the beck and call of a congregation. Also, I found in seminary, after doing some character sheets in class (my systematic professor was young, and somewhat dry), that anyone who can readily identify D&D has played D&D. They can never call you down for it without opening themselves up to their own involvement. Not that they would, because those who play know better. Therefore, those of you who play D&D never really need to fear doing so openly, so long as your materials are not covered with D&D logos. If someone recognizes it enough to know what you are doing, they are a gamer (past or present) as well, and there are a rather large number of them. So, I am NOT ashamed of D&D. Do I bring it up in job interviews? No, but I do not bring up my love of backpacking or whitewater canoeing either. It is not the place for hobbies. I have spent, however, many an evening in gaming stores or at my home gaming. (Just don't tell my small group that their pizza is the D&D group's leftovers!) God bless, and happy gaming! (I know the content of this post was rather religious in nature, but the topic of ashamedness stems greatly from religious stigma pushed in the 80s, and therefore seems germain to the topic. I will not return you to your regularly scanned posting style.)
OmiKapSi 08-07-05, 01:05 AM	:clap: Well said. As for the commentary about stereotypes. D&D has no more or less a share of people with antisocial behaviours than any other hobby or activity. I know of people who have no interest in participating in team sports, due to experiences they've had with overbearing aggressive and highly competitive people. I know of people who absolutely shun alcohol because of their experiences with rude drunken partiers. I know of people who have a total aversion to organized religion due to the actions of a few proselytizing zealots. Those who you consider responsible for D&D being stuck in the basement, figuratively speaking, are not the only reason it hasn't seen the light. D&D will become more widely accepted when the players themselves accept it. If I wanted to introduce someone to sports, I think that it would be more effective to show them how sports can be fun, rather than rail at all the testosterone junkies out there. If I wanted to introduce someone to religion, I'd rather show them myself how it can be rewarding, rather than try and track down all those who I considered overzealous and convince them to tone down their lecturing. If I'm going to introduce someone to D&D, I'll start by being comfortable about it, honest, and interesting, rather than disparaging to other gamers who may not live up to my standards.
UnderToad 08-07-05, 01:22 AM	I have no shame for what I do, why should I? After all, it's just a game, not a lifestyle that consumes my waking soul. What I am ashamed of, however, is the minority of gamers who make D&D their bride; that is, people who forgo the basic necessities of human contact for D&D. These people, like others who obsess with anything, are the worst D&D has to offer, and they undermine the game and contribute to the negative stereotype people think of when they think of gamers. A lot of D&D is good clean fun, but bit by bit these people who have so little else in their lives start to associate more with the game than they do with reality. And no, I'm not talking Mazes and Monsters (though that does appear from time to time), I'm talking about mostly functional people who walk around thinking more about elves than their families, people who crunch numbers when their co-workers try to have a conversation with them, people who shrink from the world in favor of another one. I suppose that truly lonely people need things to fill holes in their lives, but I see more and more of these people everyday. Maybe the internet has only hastened people's disassociation from everyday human contact, but I sense occuring more often than we would care to admit. There's more out there than D&D, people.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-07-05, 03:25 AM	You think it's the attitude? Wake up and smell the body odor. It is the very real stereotype we see waddling across the gaming convention floor that degrades this game, and it is that reality we should confront head on. "Confronting head on" doesn't mean acting like an *******. That's just giving the game an even worse image.
the black knight 08-07-05, 09:22 PM	"Confronting head on" doesn't mean acting like an *******. That's just giving the game an even worse image. Oh... I'm sorry, did I hit a little too close to home? Maybe you should develop thicker skin. No, wait, on second thought, scratch that.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-07-05, 09:39 PM	What can I say? I don't like *******s.
Fiery Avenger 08-07-05, 10:03 PM	Well, before I say anything about this whole "pro/cons of the nerds" debate, I'm not ashamed of playing D&D. All of my friends play, and if someone judges me based on playing a game, then **** them. I don't announce myself as a D&D player or DM, because I'd much rather talk about things that I'm passionate about (writing, music) as opposed to my hobby. Now, as for this: Hahahahahahaha. Dude, you're killing me. You think it's the attitude? Wake up and smell the body odor. It is the very real stereotype we see waddling across the gaming convention floor that degrades this game, and it is that reality we should confront head on. What are you gonna do about them? If you see someone like this playing or reading the books, what are you going to do? Go up and knock it out of their hands? Break their glasses and run off? They have just as much of a right to play as you. That being said, I think we should railroad people like you from the game, like you're attempting to do to those whose only crime are being who they are. Honestly, if you really love a movie, and you see someone that you don't like going to that movie, do you beat them up or something? It must be very time consuming being so preoccupied with what's yours and who shouldn't touch it.
mc51knight 08-07-05, 11:19 PM	As a kid fresh out of high school, I have to say that I was emmbarrast. But I kept it a secret during school, only a select few people knew. All my friends know Im a gamer, but most of them are gamers, but even my non-gamer friends dont really have any negative fellings about the game. I do try not to pester them with DnD banter though! Thats why I LOVE DND gaming. Its such a release, to be accepted and among friends, too all have the same "dirty little" secret but not to care. Maybe the stigma is a draw in itself?
Bringer of autumn 08-07-05, 11:22 PM	I'm not embarassed. In the end, people's opinions of you don't matter, and if they are shallow enough to think of you as a "loser" because you play D&D or any other fantasy game, they are the sad ones. You live once, do what you want and what makes you happy.
Amene 08-08-05, 01:03 AM	I play RPGs since I was 9, and yet no one has called me names for it, and also I'm an artist so I'm expected to be weird, in fact i think it would be cool to wear a D&D shirt with an elegant suit and shiny shoes.
loaba 08-08-05, 01:43 AM	A friend of mine used the bathroom in my apartment. She comes out, later says "you're a 9th level geek". I was kinda stunned, so I asked where the hell that came from. She then mentioned that the DMG in bathroom is what clued her in. I wasn't really mad about the geek remark (truth hurts, after that you just deal), it's just I'm way higher than 9th level... I mean c'mon, I figure I am at least 15th level Procrastinator.
shadowfox628 08-08-05, 02:10 AM	D&D is the source of nerdism to the majority. It's the dark side of the nerds, evil of the dorks, and equivilent to the Survivor Outcasts who are voted off the first 4 weeks. Am I embarrassed? Of cource!
tnewton 08-08-05, 03:00 AM	My first game was in the 80's on my grandmothers kitchen table. I remember her saying something about D&D being the devil and my brother telling her we were playing some other game which made everything ok. Later, I was worried about coworkers knowing I was a gamer. I found out very few people care, most people played before, and a few I now game with regularly. My son's friends have difficulty with their parents throwing all their dice & minis away. I just get them more when I can. One of the parents, forgetting I was a gamer, complained about his son asking him to fix a broken mini when he was going to discard them all anyway. I told him he should try fixing it first because of it's rarity & special abilities. It got fixed then disappeared a few months later. There are a lot of different messages gamers receive about their interest and I am trying to worry less about the negative labels out there.
The_Elder 08-08-05, 03:17 AM	Your links dead.... And I am never ashamed of what I do for fun. The:dlce:Elder
Billguidance 08-08-05, 03:44 AM	when DnD comes up I try to buffet it with some socially more acceptable thing. If my brother brings it up to try to embarass me in front of some of the more conservative people in the family I'll say, "yeah, we're working on getting something published." So its like work and not me screaming about criticals in a bad Scottish accent.
DmMagnus 08-08-05, 02:03 PM	Then again I am not ashamed to walk around in Sith robes in public so that may invalidate my opinion a bit. :eek: Hehe, well spoken :P talkin about "Sith robes" where the hell do you get em?
DmMagnus 08-08-05, 02:10 PM	in fact I think it would be cool to wear a D&D shirt with an elegant suit and shiny shoes. It indeed would have been cool!
LordofIllusions 08-08-05, 02:25 PM	I'm taking a poll-- but a little background info first. I decided to upgrade to the 3.5 core books (finally!) but what with a second mortgage and a second dog obtained recently, I find my spare money going to trivial things like, oh, food and toilet paper. So, to finance the new books, I started a little store at cafepress.com (http://www.cafpress.com/geeklords) with products inspired by these boards and the DM's here. Just to be clear, I am in NOT advertising for or in any way promoting the store here. This is just background to my question. You see, I mentioned what I was doing to a friend of mine, and he said it'd never work. I explained to him why I thought it would. He ultimately said "People will never buy shirts and mugs about D&D, much less wear them around. It's kinda embarassing, ya know?" I asked if he was ashamed of playing D&D. He hemmed and hawed a bit, but then admitted that he was, a little. Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks. This same question has been asked and answered at least a million times. Yes, some people are ashamed of D&D, but who cares ? ~~~
kaeso 08-08-05, 03:20 PM	This same question has been asked and answered at least a million times. Yes, some people are ashamed of D&D, but who cares ? wow, what an AWESOME contribution to the thread (complete sarcasm.) obviously, everyone who's posted cares, and im not even gonna take the time to count how many that is... seeing as this isnt much of a contribution either, uh... i just started making characters with two friends, and I can tell one of them is definitely embaressed and doesnt like to talk about it with ANYONE, and the other i think likes it a lot, but would feel awkward if it came up in a conversation with someone she didnt know... though I would probably be standing next to her feeling awkward too
katarl 08-08-05, 03:42 PM	My experience is that there seems to be a difference between stereotypes when people think about dnd. When adults think about dnd, they think geeky, young people sitting around a table eating junk food and pretending to be Ganarf, or some other camply named character. When Fundamentalists think about dnd, they see cults, demon-worshipping, and the various, less than cheerful scenes that WotC artist churn out. Children think of LotR, play acting and Harry Potter. They think its all very... childish. Do any of us here think any less, or more of ourselves for playing. I don't think we attach any significance to our often obsessive clinging to our characters, how we know the difference between the tiniest infractions of terminology, and can mentally store thousands of 'feats' in our minds. To others, we're obsessive geeks, who scare them. To us, we're just normal, and everyone else is strange, and they bore us. I know someone who cries (hes 15) when he gets poor rolls. Another who ripped up his character sheet and walked down the street screaming when his character lost a level. And me? I'm on a community board talking about my hobby, often relating to even more obsessed people, twice my age, about the difference between LA and HD. We're mad. Admit it. Nothing wrong with it. We don't wear dnd shirts, because they're not well known, because we don't want to be answering awkward questions and because we don't want to stand out against everyone else unnecessarily, fighting prejudices we don't have to. Its more hassle than its worth, rather than being self-conscious about our love of the game. This same question has been asked and answered at least a million times. Yes, some people are ashamed of D&D, but who cares ? A clumsy question, yes, but no need to be harsh. If you don't care, theres no need to post. Some people don't care though- Is it different to walk around in public, wearing full LARP gear rather than a dnd shirt? How about COSplay? Some don't care, and proclaim their geeky heritage to the world (good for them, but i'd never do it).
the black knight 08-08-05, 07:07 PM	What can I say? I don't like *******s. Yeah, I'm not fond of them either, *******.
Gnomemaster 08-08-05, 07:12 PM	me, i wear my geekiness on my sleeve, i tell my girlfriends i play dnd, i tell my friends, and even invite non players into the inner sanctum of dnd. i find its more socially acceptable now a days. i see girls wearing spiderman shirts at school. and i know that in the 80s, no girl would be caught dead in that. in fact, my gf and i are wearing batman shirts when we go see batman begins this friday. so be proud. stand tall. because high school is just a load of crap anyways.
SwitchUK 08-08-05, 07:19 PM	You know, I had one of those fundamentalist types start railing on at me for playing one time. I didn't really pay attention to him, but I think the gist of it was that D&D promotes such dangerously satanic concepts as magic and the like, and that by playing, I was funding the corruption of children. Not one of my more eloquent moments, I'll admit, but it sort of got the point across. It's a game, but games aren't necessarily childish. I'm a D&D player, and consider it to be a hobby that I enjoy, no different to how I get enjoyment from playing for my orchestra, or watching movies. There should not be, and isn't, any shame in enjoying a social activity where I get to hang out with my friends and have a good time. I don't give a flying feth what misguided opinions people may form about me because of it, because there's no reason for me to associate socially with people who don't like me or my hobbies. Anyway, that was my $0.02...
mc51knight 08-08-05, 10:07 PM	wow, what an AWESOME contribution to the thread (complete sarcasm.) Well said, Also , shadowdancers do rule!
koragnar 08-09-05, 01:07 AM	Im sure weve all read this http://***************/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp and if you havent, do it. its funny. FIRST OFF, when you die, you can be ressed. and that cleric only needed 2 more levels to do so. 2nd- the real power is a proper noun in this instance and should be capitalized. 3rd-Pentagram was never the sign of evil, it was a sign for a mathmatical concept and another branch of christianity that the Catholics didnt like so they declared it evil. 4th- a WITCH!? I heard NO ONE talking about multiclassing, and cleric/witch is a terrible choice. 5th-her face looks weird. 6th- clerics dont really cast mind-altering spells 7th- her dads base-will must suck. 8th-ok now its time to capitalize right?! its THE ZOMBIE! and she aparently doesnt need a DM to fight it, wich means... SHE HAX! 9th- her door is locked, but the cleric/witch can get in there just fine. 10th- Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage. 11th- the guy is anorexic 12th-woah! hold your horses! Acts 19:19 says "any of them also which used sorcery brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver" Nothing about rock music, and even though the dark-arts exist and are terribly evil, DnD is not them, 13th-Accepting the Lord Christ as your savior has nothing to do with games. 14th-Im glad you think Hasbro owns satan. :embarrass yep.
weasel fierce 08-09-05, 01:21 AM	does that mean I can get 50.000 silver coins, if I sell my D&D stuff ?
da beast 08-09-05, 01:57 AM	I don't advertise it myself but thats only because I have no reason to tell anyone. If someone would ask I would say yes :D I really don't care what anyone thinks anymore so I don't bother thinking about what I say ;) I figure as long as I shut up right before the point where they chace me out of town with pitch forkes ill be fine. If you think about it which sounds worse: Sitting in a room acting out some fantasy chairicters. (Dnd) Dressing up as an elf and running around on a stage. (theater) Grabing balls off guys and throwing them into their baskets (basketball) --------------- People are afraid of what they don't understand and they hate what their afraid of. The people who don't like dnd are the people who don't understand Dnd. I recently ordered "My other swords a vorpal" of jinx and plan on wearing it every chance I get.
kaeso 08-09-05, 10:27 AM	as a christian i can assure all of you who arent that we do NOT all think that way. those damn radicals...
OmiKapSi 08-09-05, 12:58 PM	Koragnar, your analysis of that chick tract is ... hilarious. And bookmarked.
koragnar 08-09-05, 01:17 PM	i do my best. but your sig, it says: The insane god from within the ape? And yeah, as another christian it bothers me that alot of people turn away from God because of the radicals.
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 08-09-05, 01:19 PM	That comic is hilariously bad. In some parts it contradicts chick. I mean at the beggining, the wizard just says "I cast light spell". Where were the incantations and demonic prayers and sacrifices chick mentions alot :P What is with debbie fighting the zombie with the DM in the other room. And seriously, its just a zombie. What, she would rather fight a CR 1/2 monster than talk to her upset friend. :confused: No one is that heartless! A DM can't just go "The thief didn't find the poison trap and I declare her dead". No fortitude save :confused: Chick claims he knows how to play the game. Stupid lier. :mad:
ImmortalBlueMage 08-09-05, 06:31 PM	If you're looking for things to criticize in "Dark Dungeons", Chick's infirm grasp of the rules is really just the tip of the iceberg.
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 08-09-05, 08:52 PM	I know but if I went into other things I would get all angry and fume all day.
High Octane 08-09-05, 08:59 PM	Im pretty sure the people who think Chick is well informed are both few in number and already have one foot in the insane asylum anyway, so discussing him is moot.
SwitchUK 08-09-05, 09:31 PM	No, fuming would be bad. Let us instead laugh in an amused fashion at the sad bastard who gets his kicks from trying to make other people look bad.
Oakspar77777 08-09-05, 11:25 PM	I also seem to recall that linking to, or even discussing at length anything about Chick is a CoC violation that gets threads locked double fast. (Aparantly, WotC sees his sight as a hate sight, rather than what it really is: an insult to the Christian faith). What always bothers me the most about Chick, though, is that he makes my job harder. After all, I am using D&D as a means to introduce my players to Christian moral concepts, so that I can intiate them into my counter-cultural Christian faith. With him spouting that nonsience in the name of Christianity and turning gamers away from the faith, I am having a much more difficult time drumming up future converts. (I'd put a smilie if I was kidding. I'm not ashamed of D&D when appropriate, and I am certianly not ashamed of sharing my faith when approriate)! It is always refreashing to read Chick every now and then, however, to remind yourself how off base some people can be. Oh, and if you are in, or about to be, in college, read the articles and count the logical fallacies. My favorite is when he make an Ad Homen arguement out of an accusation that someone else made an Ad Homen arguement. I suggest we move quickly on for Chick, however, before a WizO smells it and locks the thread down tight.
da beast 08-10-05, 12:43 AM	Done and done speaking of the foul one leaves a bad taste in my mouth any way :D Now if you excuse me I have to go find some bat guano so that my 12th level half elf wizard (i totally made that level up) can cast fireball (sarcasm)
TheNatealator 08-14-05, 10:10 PM	Well, I guess I'd better post now, before this thread gets closed. Oakspar77777, you are truly an inspiration to me. If I had time, I would try to start a D&D campaign at my church. It might end up being huge, but I could find ways around that. As it is, I'm so busy w/ school etc. I have a hard time finding time with my normal group to play. I was not a believer of Christianity myself for the longest time, mostly due to the radicals. That was, until a friend of mine convinced me that they are in the minority, and don't need to affect my relationship with God.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 08-14-05, 11:06 PM	I have a D&D shirt and I wear it in public. End of story.
High Octane 08-15-05, 09:45 AM	I made a 5 minute speech for my speech class about D&D. Not the rules, but how its played, what the general public thinks of it, and what the reality of it is. I actually talked for 10 minutes and fielded 15 more minutes of questions from a 10 person class and my teacher. I got a perfect score.
Elrana 09-07-05, 06:20 PM	I was on a first date with a girl once and told her I played D&D, it came up in conversation for some reason. She immediately became a different person, disinterested basically. Her parting shot was 'a word of advice, in future when you are out with a girl don't tell them you play D&D.' I bit back the reply of 'a word of advice, in future when you are out with a guy don't let him know you are an ignorant bigot.' I guess she is still thinking that there was no second date because she didn't want one! Oh well, many a mickle makes a muckle as is, rather incomprehensibly, expressed at times such as this in various parts of Yorkshire. In other words I don't keep it particularly secret if conversation swings that way, but equally I don't bring it up for no reason. :)
Gallameed 09-07-05, 07:24 PM	I feel sorry for you Americans, as D&D has so much "bad" and weird history over there. Over here in the UK, D&D is just a unusual hobby. Nobody would ever link D&D to devil worshipping or murders, mainly because none of that was ever reported over here. I think its maybe it's also because people arnt really THAT religeous over here, I dont know anyone who goes to church apart from one muslim guy and thats it (and he only goes because of his parents being "traditional"). If the topic of D&D ever came up in conversation, the average person would say:"Oh the cartoon from the 80's, I loved that, they never got home did they!" or possibly: "Whats that, is it like those Fighting Fantasy Books, oh you mean like Lord of the Rings, Is it like Wargaming or something?". UK D&D'ers would be labelled in the same catagory as say, a comicbook geek or a person who paints miniatures or someone who's really into collecting records or likes computers alot. The word "geek" is more often swapped for "anorack" in Blighty. An anorack is a person whos a bit of a nerd/saddo who collects things or does things like stamp-collecting or train-spotting. I am very open about D&D, but then I am very open about everything. At work I often read my books and squeeze in some DM preparation time on my lunch break. I was asked a couple of times what I was doing and I told them. One older lady said "Oh, it's a bit like an amature dramatics club, I used to be a part of one of those back in the seventies when, blah, blah....". The young man who asked me said "It sounds cool, I used to have a cousin who had lots of Warhammer armies, is it by Gamesworkshop, do you play World of Warcraft? So they either think its something to do with miniature wargaming or a drama group. They just dont have anything else to compare it to. And they are both kind of right! :)
Cathon 09-07-05, 07:58 PM	I'm not ashamed of D&D per se, but discussion of it really depends on who I'm with. At a break in our D&D game the other day, we went to out to the local Cafe 50's. The waitress came by our table and asked if we'd been doing anything fun that evening, and we all said yes, then she waited a second at the pause and said "Well, what?". None of us really wanted to tell an attractive female waitress that the fun we'd been doing this evening was sitting around in an condo playing D&D. So we hemmed and hawed, and avoided the question, and before we left she smiled and told us she was memorizing our faces just in case the police came by. (Which ****** off the conspiracy theory guy in the group, helping to prove to me that he has some pretty good reasons for remaining dateless) So I suppose the fact that we were unwilling to say what we were doing shows some shame. I also think part of it is not knowing anything about this woman, and not really wanting to have to explain what the game is, or defend it if she was some Chick Tract reader, or what have you. Still it is a lot easier to talk about comics, or video games, or anime for some reason, rather than roleplaying games. People know what the appeal of those things is, they don't really know the appeal of roleplaying games unless they've played them. It's like how it is easier to tell non-SCA folks that I'm off camping for a weekend rather than that I'm off to the War (particularly when there is this whole Iraqi thing going on). Of course, now the horror is, you wear a D&D shirt and they'll say, "Oh, I saw that, that movie sucked!"
LordHell 09-07-05, 10:33 PM	Im pretty ashamed of D&D. I am the closet geek. D&D has a real geek reputation here, and I'm quite self-conscious about appearances, phyiscal or otherwise. If I am having a party, I will usually hide my books. I never mention it outside of my gaming group. I work in a pretty 'happening' industry, making music videos, going to parties, and generally a lot of socializing with people who would look at D&D in a negative light. If I did bring it up, I'm not sure if people would believe me anyway :) I can understand and am somewhat envious of those of you who have no qualms about mentioning it. Good on you. :thumbsup:
TheNatealator 09-07-05, 10:42 PM	I'm impressed, LordHell, that you can balance DnD and your career like that. I was just wondering a few things. Who do you play DnD with? (not who specifically, but I think you know what I mean). And by "here" do you mean your workplace, or where you live? If the latter, then where do you live? I'm merely curious. You don't have to answer any of these questions if you think they're too personal.
Aeolus91 09-07-05, 10:50 PM	I tell everyone who will listen I play D&D, and try to get them to play.... I wear my Red Mage "The character sheet is mightier than the sword" shirt whenever I can, and I read the rulebooks in public. If I offend someone, their problem for being ignorant. I FLAUNT my geekiness! And surround myself with gamers... Gamer friends, check. Gamer schoolteachers (I kid you not)... check. Gamer girlfriend... check. I'm seein' all green lights here!
LordHell 09-07-05, 11:20 PM	I'm impressed, LordHell, that you can balance DnD and your career like that. I was just wondering a few things. Who do you play DnD with? (not who specifically, but I think you know what I mean). And by "here" do you mean your workplace, or where you live? If the latter, then where do you live? I'm merely curious. You don't have to answer any of these questions if you think they're too personal. 1. I play with people online using openRPG. 2. Workplace/society/country (New Zealand). Back in school I actually used to DM for a lot of the people in my class when we were all young. But as the teenage years kicked in and self-consiousness did too, it kinda faded out. Heck when we were all 10/11, the boardgame Talisman was a huge hit at school. Eventually a small group of friends and I continued playing, but we didnt talk about it much.
tharivol266 09-08-05, 12:30 AM	i aint ashamed at all. ill offer to teach anyone if they might have potential and ill read a new book in school when i have down time.
katarl 09-09-05, 02:57 PM	By necessity, i can't be ashamed of it, i have a very loud friend, who you can hear talking to the person next to him about his LARPing mace halfway down the corridor (at school). Add in an evangelical streak (he tries to convert everyone he knows into playing warhammer, or dnd, and then salvationism), and the whole of London knows that i'm a gamer. I've even developed a regional reputation (ahem) for my gaming knowledge, and my personal library. Once you get past the 11 year olds mocking you, its great. I would love a character sheet is mightier than the sword t-shirt, but shipping it all the way over here would be extortionate. You americans may have a questionable government, but you get great novelties.
SilverSabre25 09-09-05, 08:23 PM	::glances around:: Let's see...I work in a game store. I have a fuzzy d12 hanging from my rearview mirror. I'm currently at work, perusing a DnD site from my laptop while simultaneously working on my new campaign. My idea of a summer vacation is to go to a gaming con that meets in my town (Origins, for the curious folk). I met my boyfriend through my DnD group. Yeah, I'd say that I am in no way ashamed, embarassed, or any such thing. But the stigma of DnD being an evil, shameful, bad thing is still quite rampant. Take the customer who came in with her son to the store the other day. I was sitting here with a coworker (who's also a good friend and a gamer), both of us discussing characters for a game we'll be playing in soon. The lady walks up and asks if either of us happen to know anything about Dungeons and Dragons. We start to laugh. Once we calm down, I explain that yes, we both know quite a bit about the game, as we are avid players. The insuing conversation goes like this: Customer: So do you carry it here then? Me: No, we don't. Try a bookstore like Barnes and Noble. C: And why not? M: Because we cater to boardgames, tabletop games, and puzzles, for the most part. We just don't have RPGs. C: and why not? M: ::dumbfounded look:: We're a boardgame store, not a bookstore. We also aren't a traditional "gaming store." We just don't have the book-based stuff. C: I think you know why. M: (annoyed but trying not to show it.). Ma'am, Just as Target doesn't have groceries, we don't have books. It's that simple. We then proceeded to have a disscussion in which I realized that she didn't want information, and was in no way interested in listening to my side of it. She left in something of a huff, probably praying for my soul. I wish that there weren't quite so many people with that sort of an opinion. Or rather, I believe that they are entitled to their beliefs, I just wish they wouldn't try to pass judgement on mine.
BladeMage_1 09-09-05, 11:30 PM	Let's see, I'm 15 years old, am a somphmore in High school, and play dnd. Am I embarrased? Sure I am? who isn't? it's the nerdiest game out there. I'm just glad I can make fun of myself about playing it. When did you all start? Around when you were my age too, right? The common misconception is that all people that play this are loner geeks who have nothing else to do on weekends but play dnd. And... that's true! :ayyyy!: All right, I'm kidding, sort of, but really. Although I'm usually shy about it and usually hide it from idiots who classify me just for saying the words, I'm pretty straight foward with it. I've always been a class clown so that usually helps me turn somthing I do thats extremely nerdy into somthing funny. I'll be the first to tell you, and I'm not bragging or trying to prove myself to you that I'm cool. I'm not. But, I have many friends who, (some play, most dont) who dont look down on me for what I do, thats great. Do I hope I work at a comic shop before I graduate HS? YEAH. Do I really want to be an illustrator for WotC's artwork in the books? OH YEAH (I'm getting there, I tell ya) Am I gonna stop playing because I'm nervous because of it? NO. If people dont like it, they can go :censored: themselves. It's a great game and I love it, my friends love it, even the cool ones are now complete nerds (Phase II now complete) So, carry on with it. To be honest, I hope that I'm still playing this game on the side when I'm 80. I'll die witha D20 in my hand. :ghosted:
Griff 09-10-05, 01:09 AM	Embarrased? no, not really.... discreet? yep... do to some unfortunate circumstances beyond my controll aka: Living at school. dnd has had to take a back seat in my life (Shock horror gasp) ...gotta convert my girlfriend to avid player too yet but thats progressing nicely :) anyway DnD is difficult when the supervisor person you have to live with during the week considers DnD to be a recruiting tool for the devil or some such garbage...(prehaps i shouldnt get the fiend folio then?) im not ashamed tho really some of the best ppl i know play dnd, and Dnd jokes are the funniest.... like for example one time i was at school and we had a motivational speaker come in an talk to us any way he had just finished and my friend says to me "wow he must have like, 20 charisma and fifteen ranks in diplomacy"
Mr. NewFox 09-10-05, 01:45 AM	Wow! I started this thread some time ago, and its been really interesting to see the varied responses, and from all over teh globe no less! I wonder what wizards and other such companies do for "PR" for the game... has there been any systematic attempt to remove some of the stigma associated with it here in america??? I wonder.
Aeolus91 09-10-05, 03:39 PM	who isn't? Me. And tharivol266. And SilverSabre25. And katarl. And High Octane. And koragnar. I think you get the point. :D Sorry if I have offended, but I don't think anyone should have to be ashamed of DnD.
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-10-05, 05:20 PM	There's no reason to be ashamed of RPG. It is just a hobby. As every hobby, however, it is very boring to talk about it in great lenghts to someone who isn't interested in it. And lastly, talking about your sessions and adventures is the worse topic for talks one could possibly think of. And oh i think it would be cool to wear a D&D shirt with an elegant suit and shiny shoes. no, it would be not.
BladeMage_1 09-10-05, 05:30 PM	Me. And tharivol266. And SilverSabre25. And katarl. And High Octane. And koragnar. I think you get the point. :D Sorry if I have offended, but I don't think anyone should have to be ashamed of DnD. I joke I joke! I kid I kid! :D
tharivol266 09-10-05, 05:48 PM	I have a fuzzy d12 hanging from my rearview mirror. okay that almost qualifies as the coolest thing ever. i want one. where did u find it?
tharivol266 09-10-05, 05:52 PM	anyway DnD is difficult when the supervisor person you have to live with during the week considers DnD to be a recruiting tool for the devil or some such garbage...(prehaps i shouldnt get the fiend folio then?) im not ashamed tho really some of the best ppl i know play dnd, and Dnd jokes are the funniest.... like for example one time i was at school and we had a motivational speaker come in an talk to us any way he had just finished and my friend says to me "wow he must have like, 20 charisma and fifteen ranks in diplomacy" yea id suggest u leave the BoVD on the shelf too. and dnd jokes are great. today i was taking my friend to work and when we got there we passed this girl and i was like "22cha at 9 oclock" then pointed because she wasnt really at 9 o'clock. lol
Ni! 09-10-05, 06:24 PM	Definitely not. Sure, some people laugh, but why the hell do I care? I take pride in my nerdiness!
Mock26 09-10-05, 09:54 PM	I have never been ashamed about playing D&D and I've been playing since 1981! Why should anyone be ashamed of playing D&D? Because someone else says or implies that you should be? That's ridiculous. One of my coworkers once made fun of me for going to GenCon, that I took a couple days vacation to go and play D&D. Yet, when I called him out about his taking off an entire day of work to watch the NFL draft and then yet a second vacation day later on to draft his fantasy football team, he said, "Well, it's different with me because this is sports." When I pressed him for a further explanation he simply mumber, "Sports is better because it just is." Given that this type of explanation is often used to explain, without ANY good reason, why other activities are better than D&D, what do we have to be ashamed of? If you enjoy an activity you should let people know, you should be proud of it and yourself. I understand that this line of reason is hard for a lot of "us gamers" to accept, but if you think about it logically D&D is no different than any other hobby out there. Now, if D&D is your only hobby, then that is something to be ashamed of, but no more so than if football or hunting or biking or reading was your ONLY hobby. And, before I wrap this up, let me remind people that back in the 80's when there was a national campaign about the evils of D&D, Dr. Joyce Brothers, the famous psychologist, came out in support of D&D because it encouraged social interaction with people and helped them to broaden and expand their imagination. She is even quoted as saying, "The Dungeons & Dragons game provides an especially safe way for young people to meet their needs for excitement and adventure." In fact, I have taken my love of gaming in general to a certain extreme level. For those of you familiar with Battletech, I have a tattoo of the House Kurita emblem on my lower left leg. You can see a picture of it here: http://forums.classicbattletech.com/index.php/topic,5824.msg112785.html#msg112785 Just scroll down about 2/3rd of the way and you'll see my leg. I am under the same name of Mock26 there. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. PS If some jock ever makes fun of you for playing D&D you should politely point the famous actor/jock Vin Deisel is proud to play D&D!
lordgeek22 09-10-05, 10:35 PM	I have never been ashamed of playing D&D. As far as I'm concerned, it is the best form of entertainment in the world. As for those individuals who believe D&D is evil and satanic. Unless you actually have something important to say don't chime in. Remember gamers are very, very smart and we can tear your religion apart. I apoligize for the hostility but if whoever reads this, and hopefully they are a gamer, have probably heard the santanic argument many times before. I'm just taking a more aggressive approach to dealing with the people who spout that argument.
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-10-05, 11:39 PM	as for some of the stuff that has come up: 1. this is the reason my family doesn't go to church. my dad and i are both ubergeeks(me moreso) that would be drenched in holy water. 2. if any religous figure ever tried to exorcize "dndbad spirits" or whatevertheheck he wants to call them, i would smack him. or eat the holy symbol, whichever i thought would provide better shock value 3. that kid who said that one guy was butchering a goat. i would see if the parents would reward me for beating him with a tire iron for them. 4. it's a sign of how crazy people are that we even need a christain gamers coalition thing. you shouldn't need an organization to back you up. 5. Funnily enough, i know this kid, who didn't play dnd, but one time he touched a bible and got second degree burns. still not sure how he pulled that one off....
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-11-05, 04:49 AM	Remember gamers are very, very smart and we can tear your religion apart. Actually, you sound very stupid talking like that.
Jancarius 09-11-05, 05:33 AM	Well, when I first started playing AD&D back in like 6th grade [about 9 years ago], I would bring my 2E handbooks to school with me and read through them intently in class. I usually my 3.5 books to work with me [I have a pretty laid back job] when I want to work on an adventure design. I'm wearing the Jesus Saves, Rest of you take damage shirt right now, in fact.
Hairfoot 09-11-05, 07:17 AM	The religious zealotry must be an American thing. Where I come from, D&D is just regarded as a mental retreat for socially maladjusted pod-people who can't deal with reality. It's a gamer's paradise!
tharivol266 09-11-05, 08:50 AM	one time i got sent to the office because i chose to read the book of challenges instead of study for a speech test. the sub was an old wench and she asked why i wasnt studying and i told her i dont study(only have for like 3 tests in my life) then she asked what i was reading and i told her it was dnd then like 3 periods later i got a summons from the guidence consuler and when he told me y i started laughing and he was like "so i dont have to worry about this"(he was cool but he left last year and im sad because and dont know his replacement and its my last year)
Elrana 09-11-05, 11:34 AM	one time i got sent to the office because i chose to read the book of challenges instead of study for a speech test. the sub was an old wench and she asked why i wasnt studying and i told her i dont study(only have for like 3 tests in my life) then she asked what i was reading and i told her it was dnd then like 3 periods later i got a summons from the guidence consuler and when he told me y i started laughing and he was like "so i dont have to worry about this"(he was cool but he left last year and im sad because and dont know his replacement and its my last year) Maybe you should have studied instead, maybe then you would have grasped the basics of grammar and construction! ;) :)
Chosen of the Dark Sun 09-11-05, 11:51 AM	I'm actually pretty open about my gaming geekiness. The way I see it, it's a good way to figure out who is actually worth being around. If they think that what I do with my free time is stupid, or that I'm suddenly going to grow horns and a tail, then I know that they're not the kinds of people I want to hang out with. Most of my friends play, and if someone asks me what I'm doing over the weekend, I answer truthfully. A lot of people who find out snicker and say stuff like "It must be really hard to get anyone else to play." In truth, as I tell them, I already have a group of five consistant people, two people who can play sometimes, and several more who want to learn. And as to the people who say it's devil worship when I bring my PHB to school, I just open up the book and tell them to find me which part has the instructions on goat sacrifice, because I'd really be interested to see them. D&D involves about as much devil worship as the people who do nothing all day but vegitate on their couches and watch sports.
misi 09-11-05, 04:05 PM	emberassed? no, but I don't brag about it either. It is a nerd-game, but who cares? I read my books in public, and answer questions about it if people ask, but... Most of my close friends play, so we have a lot of inside jokes from it and all. I don't mention it much at work (work in a fashion store) I don't think any of them would understand...
=-Nonsensical-= 09-11-05, 05:51 PM	I'm a casual D&D player and I'm not ashamed of it. Once a week I have a few beers and play a game with my buddies. Who cares? I won't go out of my way to talk D&D, but if my hobbies come up in conversation then I'll mention it along with badminton, football and poker. In my experience, when people realise that not all gamers are uwashed, overweight teenagers they become much more acceptant. There are always some who give you a hard time about it, but don't worry about them - they are stupid. The last time some idiot gave me grief about my gaming I brought up the matter of how much I earn and how hot my girlfriend is. That shut him up.
lordgeek22 09-11-05, 09:38 PM	Actually, you sound very stupid talking like that. Hey there is nothing wrong with having an opinion or belief in something. But I don't see any reason to just outright label somebody evil or satanic just because of that persons individual hobby. In my experience most people who talk about the "satanic" part of DnD usually approach the subject in a polite respectful manner. When they approach the subject in that manner, I have no problem talking about the subject respectfully. But when they start telling me that I am going to hell because of it, then that is a different story. I may sound stupid but think about the people who attack DnD. I imagine that they don't play and have no knowledge of it. So doesn't that mean they're attacking it from a place of ignorance, right. If I sound stupid, then I sound stupid. I'm a human being with my own ideas, give me a better idea then it will probably change. No hard feelings anyway. Thanks for the comment. :)
SilverSabre25 09-11-05, 11:32 PM	okay that almost qualifies as the coolest thing ever. i want one. where did u find it? At a local gamestore. I've also seen them at gaming conventions, too, like Origins (in Columbus, Ohio.). There are all sorts; I've even seen a set of 7 fuzzy dice! (I want it, but haven't yet felt like spending $40 on it!) Here's (http://shop.rpg.net/product_info.php?cPath=203_478&products_id=36328&) a link to a place that sells them. And here's (http://shop.rpg.net/product_info.php?products_id=36929&) a link to the set of 7 fuzzy dice. Enjoy! :D
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-12-05, 03:17 AM	No hard feelings anyway. Thanks for the comment. :) No problem. I didn't want to put you down or anything, just make you aware that threatning that "you're smart and will destroy someone's religion" is stupid. And eventual following that with questions like "why are there no mentions of dinosaurs in the bible?" is beyound stupid. And since you want to be considered a smart man, that is unwise approach.
Bud Green 09-12-05, 04:40 AM	I think the degree of stigma differs with age. A middle-school or high-school kid that plays D&D is cut a lot more slack by society. They're kids - they're supposed to do nerdy kid's stuff. A 40 year old that plays will probably be judged more harshly by his peers. 40 year olds aren't supposed to be into kid's stuff like D&D or MtG. I'm 38. When I started playing, I was in high school. Back then, I had no problem wearing D&D T-shirts or reading D&D books in public. Nowadays, I don't advertise my hobby to the general public. Shame is too strong of a word though. I don't feel any shame about it - and everyone in my 'circle' knows I play (and most of my friends play as well). It's more of a concession to the prejudices I know exist. My guess is that most of the people that have said they are not ashamed or embarassed in the least of D&D are still in middle school or high school. No data to back that up of course - just my hypothesis.
Flushpuppie 09-12-05, 07:15 AM	I'm not ashamed for playing D&D. I'm from the netherlands (you know: amsterdam) and D&D is not as big as it is in the US. I can read D&D books everywhere and about the only response I get is: what's that book you're reading? and I tell them about D&D. most people don't understand it or say something like: hunkh? weird. but I don't care about that. because most people find it interesting and I LOVE talking about D&D
Mock26 09-12-05, 04:22 PM	I was recently out with a lady in my D&D group and three of her female friends, one of whom is named Anna. At one point three of the four girls did a group trip to the ladies room (as ladies are wont to do) and I was left with Anna at the table. I was wearing normal attire (shorts, sandals, and a t-shirt from a brew-pub) and figured I would have passed for a typical yuppie (though I shudder at the thought of passing as a yuppie!). Anyway, she says, "I don't mean to stereotype you, but are you a D&D player?" At first I guessed that Melissa, the lady in my group, had told her. But, upon questioning her I found out she didn't even know that Melissa played D&D. I thought it very funny and interesting that she was able to pick me out as a gamer, and I wasn't the least me ashamed of talking to her about my love of gaming. As it turns out, though, she had dated a gamer for a few years and was able to pick me out as being one. Still, even though her ex-boyfriend was a total gaming loser who was the stereotypical gamer who shunned social activity and the sun she didn't classify all gamers like her ex. I think that in this day and age there is less of a stigmata to being a gamer as there was 10 or 20 years ago. With the huge boom in computer gaming people are more used to the idea of gaming in general, including D&D. I have never had anyone give me a strange look for being a 35-year old D&D player, but that is probably because I work full-time, have a girlfriend and a social life, enjoy other activities like biking, rollerblading, skydiving, going out with non-gaming friends, and I don't live with my parents! Don't get me wrong, we have our fair share of losers in the gaming world, but there are also losers in every other group of people out there. Additionally, D&D players can be found in every classification of people out there, including doctors, lawyers, athletes, police, fire fighters, military, teachers, accountants, mechanics, and even darker groups such as drug addicts, drunks, perverts, satanists, christians, etc.. I just don't understand anyone being ashamed of playing D&D because when you get right down to it there isn't anything to be ashamed of! Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. PS Bud Green, sorry to throw a wrench in your hypothesis but I'm 35 and not ashamed of being a D&D and other system gamer. I will wear D&D t-shirts out in public, but I also wear other t-shirts. The key is knowing when and where any type of clothing is appropriate. If I'm going out to a bar I have no problem wearing a gaming shirt ("roll the dice, it builds character") or one of my GenCon shirts, be it a t-shirt or a golf shirt, but I certainly won't wear my "I spent my reward on ale and wh_r_s" t-shirt! Not wearing a D&D t-shirt doens't necessarily make one "ashamed" of playing D&D, it can be simply a matter of knowing when a shirt is or is not appropriate.
Mock26 09-12-05, 04:43 PM	SilverSabre25 said: I was sitting here with a coworker (who's also a good friend and a gamer), both of us discussing characters for a game we'll be playing in soon. The lady walks up and asks if either of us happen to know anything about Dungeons and Dragons. We start to laugh. Once we calm down, I explain that yes, we both know quite a bit about the game, as we are avid players. The insuing conversation goes like this: Customer: So do you carry it here then? Me: No, we don't. Try a bookstore like Barnes and Noble. C: And why not? M: Because we cater to boardgames, tabletop games, and puzzles, for the most part. We just don't have RPGs. C: and why not? M: ::dumbfounded look:: We're a boardgame store, not a bookstore. We also aren't a traditional "gaming store." We just don't have the book-based stuff. C: I think you know why. M: (annoyed but trying not to show it.). Ma'am, Just as Target doesn't have groceries, we don't have books. It's that simple. We then proceeded to have a disscussion in which I realized that she didn't want information, and was in no way interested in listening to my side of it. She left in something of a huff, probably praying for my soul. I wish that there weren't quite so many people with that sort of an opinion. Or rather, I believe that they are entitled to their beliefs, I just wish they wouldn't try to pass judgement on mine. On the other side of the coin, though, last summer I stopped by a local gaming store (carried everything to do with gaming, including D&D, BattleTech, GURPS, card games, board games, and computer games). There just happened to be a sealed deck Magic tourney that night. Some kid walked in with his parents and was happy to learn of the tournament, but he was sad that he didn't have any cards. This is what I heard: Kid: Mom, can you buy be a deck and 4 booster packs so I can play? Mom: Yes, but you have to choose if you want this or that computer game as part of your birthday gift, not both. One has to come out of your allowance if you want it. :::The kid thinks for a couple of minutes::: Kid: Mom, I think I would like to do this if it's OK with you and dad. Mom: Yes it is, we'll be across the street at the coffe house. :::Mom buys the cards and asks the store owner if it is OK if she and the dad go to the coffe house across the street. He said it was OK and they left::: I never did find out if the kid won or not but I had a lot of respect for the parents and the kid. I know they may very well be the exception to parents in general these days but it is always good to see good, rational parents and parents who support gaming! Now, here's a funny story out of my past. Back when I was in high school a local religous group bought about $200 worth of D&D books at the book shop I frequented and they openly told the owner why they were buying it. She was cool with it because she knew she made money and TSR made money, thus helping both companies grow stronger. I asked her if she could sell me $75 worth of bibles a cost +10%, to which she readily agreed. I put them in a box with "Devil's Literature" on the side and went to the rally which was held in a open place and they had a 55-gallon drum there with a fire going in it. They had already tossed in a couple of books when I asked if I could throw some on the fire. I tossed about 5 bibles onto the pile before the minister in charge asked what books I was burning. I told him they were bibles and he was shocked beyond belief! He almost fainted! He then recovered and tried to make me give him the box of bibles. After a few minutes of haggling I traded him the remaining bibles for the roughly $125-$150 worth of D&D stuff left over. I snagged a whole bunch of modules I didn't have, and book I didn't have, and I sold off the rest to friends and made back almost all of the money I had spent on the bibles. It was a LOT of fun. And, for the record, I'm not a satanist. At the time I was just an atheist capable of generating a sizable mean streak and someone who wasn't afraid of turning the tables on some overzealous people. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Elrana 09-12-05, 05:34 PM	On the other side of the coin, though, last summer I stopped by a local gaming store (carried everything to do with gaming, including D&D, BattleTech, GURPS, card games, board games, and computer games). There just happened to be a sealed deck Magic tourney that night. Some kid walked in with his parents and was happy to learn of the tournament, but he was sad that he didn't have any cards. This is what I heard: Kid: Mom, can you buy be a deck and 4 booster packs so I can play? Mom: Yes, but you have to choose if you want this or that computer game as part of your birthday gift, not both. One has to come out of your allowance if you want it. :::The kid thinks for a couple of minutes::: Kid: Mom, I think I would like to do this if it's OK with you and dad. Mom: Yes it is, we'll be across the street at the coffe house. :::Mom buys the cards and asks the store owner if it is OK if she and the dad go to the coffe house across the street. He said it was OK and they left::: I never did find out if the kid won or not but I had a lot of respect for the parents and the kid. I know they may very well be the exception to parents in general these days but it is always good to see good, rational parents and parents who support gaming! Now, here's a funny story out of my past. Back when I was in high school a local religous group bought about $200 worth of D&D books at the book shop I frequented and they openly told the owner why they were buying it. She was cool with it because she knew she made money and TSR made money, thus helping both companies grow stronger. I asked her if she could sell me $75 worth of bibles a cost +10%, to which she readily agreed. I put them in a box with "Devil's Literature" on the side and went to the rally which was held in a open place and they had a 55-gallon drum there with a fire going in it. They had already tossed in a couple of books when I asked if I could throw some on the fire. I tossed about 5 bibles onto the pile before the minister in charge asked what books I was burning. I told him they were bibles and he was shocked beyond belief! He almost fainted! He then recovered and tried to make me give him the box of bibles. After a few minutes of haggling I traded him the remaining bibles for the roughly $125-$150 worth of D&D stuff left over. I snagged a whole bunch of modules I didn't have, and book I didn't have, and I sold off the rest to friends and made back almost all of the money I had spent on the bibles. It was a LOT of fun. And, for the record, I'm not a satanist. At the time I was just an atheist capable of generating a sizable mean streak and someone who wasn't afraid of turning the tables on some overzealous people. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. Nice tales, both of them. The scary thing about Xians burning books like that, for me anyway as someone fairly knowledgable about history and a Jew, is that that is exactly how the National Socialist Party used to behave in Germany, burning books of 'dissidents'. It has to beggar the question, where would it lead to if the radical Xians were given their head? We know they used to burn 'witches' as Satanists, and they accuse D&Ders of having Satanist inclinations. So, to follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion with an historical precedent to take as an example, if they were given free reign where would it end? :)
fetuskiller 09-12-05, 06:13 PM	i am very proud to be a dnd player. as a matter of fact, it's one of the first things i tell people when i meet them. my friends get embarrassed for me when we're at the bar and it goes something like this: guy: why are you single? me: because i'm 25 and play dungeons and dragons. :)
Bud Green 09-12-05, 07:11 PM	Nice tales, both of them. The scary thing about Xians burning books like that, for me anyway as someone fairly knowledgable about history and a Jew, is that that is exactly how the National Socialist Party used to behave in Germany, burning books of 'dissidents'. It has to beggar the question, where would it lead to if the radical Xians were given their head? We know they used to burn 'witches' as Satanists, and they accuse D&Ders of having Satanist inclinations. So, to follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion with an historical precedent to take as an example, if they were given free reign where would it end? :) Well I'm no christian but I can certainly see the irony of a post in a thread about prejudices suggesting that all christians are nazis.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 09-12-05, 07:46 PM	Well I'm no christian but I can certainly see the irony of a post in a thread about prejudices suggesting that all christians are nazis. All though I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this, where did he say that all christians are Nazis? I do agree that what he said was a little extreme, I doubt they would start burning gamers, but you gotta admit that if the overzealous people in this country were given more control, they'de probably try to make laws against the "devil's game". The scariest part to me about the world is that people are so arrogant and bigotted that they can't see that maybe others are entitled to their own beliefs. Heck, I too am Jewish, so I don't even believe in the devil.
Swarms 09-12-05, 08:01 PM	As a rule I don't talk about dnd...unless asked by someone who seems interested. However, I am not ashamed to wear my "I roll 20s" t-shirt in public. Its awesome. :D
Disco 09-12-05, 08:04 PM	Yes, yes I am.
Elrana 09-12-05, 08:12 PM	Well I'm no christian but I can certainly see the irony of a post in a thread about prejudices suggesting that all christians are nazis. Which post is this? I notice that you have quoted mine above this statement, please point out the part you are refering to. :rolleyes: Heck, I too am Jewish, so I don't even believe in the devil. It always amuses me when I hear how D&Ders will go to hell for worshipping Satan, how safe am I? I don't believe in either of them so I'll just keep playing! If I were allowed to (which I am not) I'd advise you all to convert, it really takes the sting out of that particular threat! (Mind you, there may be a painful reminder of what you did you escape the fires of hell coming at some point in the process! :gah: ) :)
StandardIdiotPC 09-12-05, 08:39 PM	Okay to get this thread back on track before this gets derailed way off like a lot of threads here do. I am not what most would think of when they think of the typical gamer. I was not a nerd or an outcast in highschool. Nor am I over weight and I have perfect vision. I, also, am a fan of punk and metal music. I often wear shirts featuring the bands I listen to. My taste in music is a part of me. Just like D&D is a part of who I am. Now I don't wear D&D shirts, but I am not ashamed to say I play D&D when asked about it. I also know that it is not a subject you just bring up. On thing though is that I have never really seen any of that stigma from the 80's and early 90's. This is most likely because of the fact that I'm only a College Freshmen. The closest I have come to the stigma is one of my ex-girlfriends wanted me to quit playing D&D because she thought it was dorky. I guess that is why she is my ex-girlfriend. :D
SilverSabre25 09-12-05, 10:09 PM	I"m a sophomore in college, although that has nothing to do with my not being ashamed of DnD. I didn't play in high school because I didn't have the opportunity. I have always been a huge geek and a huge nerd, and I've never been one to hide it. I'm not ashamed of it because there's nothing to be ashamed of. On the other hand, I usually don't share the fact that I knit, crochet, and scrapbook with people. I'm not ashamed of those hobbies; I just...get made fun of half the time when people know about them. :-P And I do kind of resent the implication that the only people who aren't ashamed are youngsters. I know quite a few older folk, who've been playing the game since 1e, who are not ashamed.
Bud Green 09-13-05, 12:52 AM	And I do kind of resent the implication that the only people who aren't ashamed are youngsters. I know quite a few older folk, who've been playing the game since 1e, who are not ashamed. Hey, I just stated it as my own hypothesis. I stated it flat out - no implication about it. No need to resent anything. We don't all have to agree on everything do we?
Bud Green 09-13-05, 01:25 AM	Which post is this? I notice that you have quoted mine above this statement, please point out the part you are refering to. :rolleyes: :) No thanks. I think your prejudices are plain enough without belaboring them. After all it is you who, for some unfathomable reason, keeps posting about christianity and your paranoid 'What if christians ruled the world?' scenario. I'm unconcerned one way or the other about christianity really - was simply struck by the irony.
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-13-05, 02:25 AM	I tossed about 5 bibles onto the pile before the minister in charge asked what books I was burning. I told him they were bibles and he was shocked beyond belief! He almost fainted! He then recovered and tried to make me give him the box of bibles. After a few minutes of haggling I traded him the remaining bibles for the roughly $125-$150 worth of D&D stuff left over. I snagged a whole bunch of modules I didn't have, and book I didn't have, and I sold off the rest to friends and made back almost all of the money I had spent on the bibles. It was a LOT of fun. Congratulations sir. You burned books containing two millenia of human philosophy and ethic. Your love of the game and understanding of the human values is commendable. Though it makes an amusing story.
weasel fierce 09-13-05, 02:30 AM	Why burn books, when you can burn people who would burn books ?
Mock26 09-13-05, 02:55 AM	Congratulations sir. You burned books containing two millenia of human philosophy and ethic. Your love of the game and understanding of the human values is commendable. Physically, a book is a bunch of words written on sheets of paper sandwiched between two thicker pieces of paper. That is it, nothing more. By burning a bunch of bibles I did not in one way damage, harm, or undo two millenia of human philosophy and ethic. I burned some paper. Now, if I had burned every single bible on the planet, along with every piece of literature that pertained to anything and everything in the bible, then I would be guilty of something. If I had burned those bibles because I thought that they were evil and that no one had the right to read them, then I would be guilty of something. If I burned them because I was trying to tell someone what they could and could not read then I would be guilty of something. As it was I burned some paper with words written on them. I did not destroy the meaning of those words. A bible's worth is no more nor more less than that of any other book, even the DMG. No pun intended, all I did was fight fire with fire. Their cause, even if in the name of a god, did not give them more right to burn the DMG and the PHB any more than my cause gave me the right to burn a few bibles. Believe it or not but books are sacred to me and I am, in general, against the burning of books. In my entire life of 35 years I have only ever gotten rid of a handful of books, probably less than 20, and those were always given away to people who wanted them. The few that were ever thrown out were because they were damaged beyond salvage from some other cause. The only books I have ever burned were those bibles. The reason I did it was because some self-righteous bible-thumping do-gooder decided that he had the right to burn books that he found offensive. I turned the table on that sorry excuse for a human being and I relished every single moment of it. Anyone who goes out of their way to destroy books for "my salvation" or for "my benefit" deserves to have that which is precious to them (in the way of books and other similar items that are available to everyone else) treated the same way. Try to ban my books and I will try to ban yours. Try to burn my books and I will try to burn your books. OK, sorry to preach, but I had to give this explanation. We should start some sort of D&D Appreciation day when all of us can proudly wear our D&D t-shirts out in publc! Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Elrana 09-13-05, 03:15 AM	No thanks. I think your prejudices are plain enough without belaboring them. After all it is you who, for some unfathomable reason, keeps posting about christianity and your paranoid 'What if christians ruled the world?' scenario. I'm unconcerned one way or the other about christianity really - was simply struck by the irony. I find it hard to quantify 'for some unfathomable reason, keep posting about' with a single post, and that in response to so many others. I have told you you are wrong, an uninvolved bystander has told you you are wrong, if you continue with this line of attack you will be reported to a moderator for them to deal with because the route you are going down is not only misconceived, but also insulting and offensive.
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-13-05, 03:17 AM	There is one great difference in "the bunch of words" that is bible, or Le Jardin D'Epicure, or Wheel of Time. Some books carry in them a wealth of ideas streaming from a single, collective or individual, great mind. Others are plain entertainment. If you burn the book you show utter disrespect for the ideas contained in it. Hence, your story is amusing, but not something to be bragged about.
boredgremlin 09-13-05, 03:54 AM	I am proud to be a gamer. I dont hide it. I dont throw it around but if someone asks what i am doing on my day off i tell them.Lol i am the boss now though. Honestly i like my hobby and i think that most people who give it a fair chance would like it too. Almost any smart, creative person can enjoy gaming. Some of them just dont know it yet.
FriendoftheDork 09-13-05, 06:48 AM	Ashamed for having a social activity? Hell no. I even have it on my CV, and it doesen't detract at all, it's actually a plus in many jobs.
TheNatealator 09-13-05, 06:58 AM	Nice tales, both of them. The scary thing about Xians burning books like that, for me anyway as someone fairly knowledgable about history and a Jew, is that that is exactly how the National Socialist Party used to behave in Germany, burning books of 'dissidents'. It has to beggar the question, where would it lead to if the radical Xians were given their head? We know they used to burn 'witches' as Satanists, and they accuse D&Ders of having Satanist inclinations. So, to follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion with an historical precedent to take as an example, if they were given free reign where would it end? :) Ok, so I reread this post. First of all, it does not say "christians." It says "Xians" which I'm assuming is an overzealous faction of christianity. He said they burn books like the National Socailist Party used to (I know they are related to Naziism, but that's where his comparison of Christians to Nazi's ended, if it even started). The rest of his post talks about how in Salem, people were burned for satanism, and the Xians are burning books of satanism. Following this line of thought, the reign of the Xians (if they got one) would end when the rest of the people in the world rose up against them. Now, here I would make a reference to someone in America who has siezed an enourmous amount of power and is very similar to these Xians, but that would be against the CoC. Anyways, I think that is the interpretation that Elrana was suggesting. Anything else would be twisting his words, and/or making your own conclusion. If you think christians may be turning nazi (which I see you don't), at least don't associate it with elrana. And weasel fierce, I seriously hope your question was not serious. We would only justify them in their thinking if we started killing them. Oh, and on topic, I don't tell people about DnD if it will kill the conversation, no more than I would tell them about my high standardized test scores, or some similar conversation killer. If, however, it seems an appropriate time to talk about DnD, then I will gladly tell them all about it.
Bud Green 09-13-05, 07:54 AM	I find it hard to quantify 'for some unfathomable reason, keep posting about' with a single post, and that in response to so many others. I have told you you are wrong, an uninvolved bystander has told you you are wrong, if you continue with this line of attack you will be reported to a moderator for them to deal with because the route you are going down is not only misconceived, but also insulting and offensive. Meh, go for it. I don't see that I've attacked you. I found your post ironic. Nothing more. Get over it.
Bud Green 09-13-05, 08:01 AM	... insulting and offensive. Once again, the irony burns my eyes out. :D Sorry, just had to.
Twisted Puppy 09-13-05, 10:18 AM	Our group isn't ashamed at all about playing D&D. We meet on Saturdays at a local book store with a huge customer volume. Now, we keep the game at about a PG-13 rating, and do have to watch our language. No problem, since some of the players are in junior high. When we first began meeting at the location, we did have a problem with a bible Nazi. (That isn't the same as a Christian, IMO.) He complained to management about us being in the store, and proceeded to harass the entire group, saying we were following the devil, etc. It even got to the point where he was talking to other customers about us, suggesting that they complain as well. Finally, one of the other customers did go to the store manager. She agreed with the customer completely, came up to where we were gaming - and asked the bible Nazi to leave the store and not come back. :D Gotta love the old DM saw: Be careful what you wish for. You might get it. He didn't want to see us in the store, and now he doesn't.
katarl 09-13-05, 12:15 PM	Ever been invited to church to play dnd? I thought it quite hilarious when they asked me, and then i realised, that it wasn't. I'm amazed by how many people do not know what dnd is, and those that do don't care, or play themselves. In my neighbourhood, Warhammer fans are persecuted beyond belief, but dnd fans are ignored entirely- they think we're talking about history or some kind of code. Even LARPers (yes me too) are left alone, some of us dragging our full battle gear through the city centre. No one but us care. Even with the problems here recently, everyone thinks we're actors. Being invisible is a great asset. I'd never ever wear a +3 stud or such t-shirt though (chugworth), thats just strange. Another point to consider- do model train fans wear train t-shirts? Do anime fans (like me) wear t-shirts with catgirls on them? Why?
Mock26 09-14-05, 04:51 PM	If you burn the book you show utter disrespect for the ideas contained in it. So, I show disrespect for some pagan teachings. I don't have a problem with that. It is a book of myths that the misinformed and naive have passed down through the centuries. The bible has done more to supress the mind of man than any other book to ever exist. In essence I was doing mankind a favor by easing the chains of mental slavery that the bible stands for. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Illion the Red 09-14-05, 04:56 PM	This thread has devolved into a politcal/religious argument. Quite the shame. Please put aside the rhetoric and vitrol...and get back to enjoying this hobby, publicly and proudly.
Pryrates 09-14-05, 05:12 PM	I dont walk around telling all that I play but if someone asks or if I know someone well I dont hide it. Id say im more reserved about it than ashamed of it.
Zencore 09-15-05, 12:50 PM	I think it’s just common sense that you don’t go blathering on about D&D to those who don’t care about it. But then again you shouldn’t blather on about anything that other don’t care and don’t want to hear about. As for myself – I don’t have a problem with telling people I play. Don’t really care what people think either way. A geek? Hmmm, let me see… well I write software for a living – could build a computer in my sleep and have been playing D&D for over 20 years. Yup, guess I’m a geek. Damn, what will my wife, my kids and all my friends think? Oh wait - they won’t care – because most of them play D&D as well. In fact, I’ve enjoyed running a game for my four kids – ages 15 to 10. Very enjoyable indeed. It’s fun for both them and myself not to mention that I think D&D teaches kids all kinda good stuff. Problem solving – working as a team and even math (for the 10 year old) and reading. Would I buy a t-shirt with D&D slogans on it? Sure. Would I wear it to work – well maybe on casual Friday. :)
Aeolus91 09-15-05, 01:16 PM	Mock26, you are my hero. :) Hehe, show those book-burners who's boss. mrshupizdumaterinu, so if they burn DnD books, they're eradicating Satan, whereas if one of us burns a bible, it's all the sudden scandalous and wrong? I just don't get it sometimes... As for Elrana: Jew Power!!! :pint:
Red_Ninja 09-15-05, 01:43 PM	i am a closet gamer. Though I thoroughly enjoy D&D, I seldom mention it to even my close friends. Not that I would deny playing, if directly asked, but I feel no need to include others, unless they share similar interests. I play regularly (DM mostly) and often spend free time creating material on the computer, but do not involve D&D in my regular life. I'm not sure that it is shame, embarrasment, or inconvenience that drives me to do this, but it works for me. I guess my "hobby" is a private [ok semi-private] thing for me, and as such, I choose to discuss it with other like minded folks (like yourselves) and don't let it encrouch on the other aspects of my life. I imagine many model train enthusiasts (and other gamers) feel similarly.
=-Nonsensical-= 09-15-05, 02:43 PM	Once again, the irony burns my eyes out. :D Sorry, just had to. It's also rather ironic that in thread about prejudices you assume radical xians are representative of the whole of christianity. Do you also believe that all muslims are suicide bombers?
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-16-05, 01:38 AM	mrshupizdumaterinu, so if they burn DnD books, they're eradicating Satan, whereas if one of us burns a bible, it's all the sudden scandalous and wrong? I just don't get it sometimes... Can you honestly say you do not understand difference between a game, that on universal scale of importance to humanity ranks somewhere around "not at all", and a book that summs up millenias of philosophy, ethic, and human thought in general? Burning one is retarded and kind of funny, but burning second is uncivilized, degrading, and uncultured, wether you are a christian or not. So, I show disrespect for some pagan teachings. I don't have a problem with that. It is a book of myths that the misinformed and naive have passed down through the centuries. The bible has done more to supress the mind of man than any other book to ever exist. In essence I was doing mankind a favor by easing the chains of mental slavery that the bible stands for. Teaching, no matter if you agree with it or not, and if it streams from pagan, islamic, european or african background, is still something to be respected by every slightly intellectual person. And while I agree much evil has been done by intentional misinterpreting of the bible, or any work of simmilar contenst, it does not in any way degrade what is in it.
weasel fierce 09-16-05, 02:18 AM	Burning one is retarded and kind of funny, but burning second is uncivilized, degrading, and uncultured, wether you are a christian or not. Both are made of dead trees. The difference lies not in the printed material, but in the interpretation, and thus, humanity thereof. How about not burning books at all ?
75RD Drum Clip 09-16-05, 02:39 AM	As far as work goes.... just became unemployed..... I don't make mention of D&D at work--image is money....sadly.
KeltenVonRatzenberger 09-16-05, 09:34 AM	I'm not embarassed or ashamed that I game. All of my good friends game and we have a good time doing it. As mentioned before, it's no different that a poker night. I work with a bunch of very conservative people and they already think I'm "strange" because of piercings and tattoos. A couple of people at work have asked if I game after seeing me read countless fantasy novels at work. I have no problems telling them yes I game but I generally leave it at that. My girlfriend said it was "cute" when I told her and then followed by immediately stating she didn't wanna play and that she would leave me alone on gaming nights. As far as family, they know I play but have no clue what it is. [edit]-Should learn to proofread before posting
Bane 09-16-05, 01:20 PM	Why would you be ashamed of D&D? It's not like you're doing anything wrong, is it? Is it? IS IT!? However, I don't broadcast my views on D&D. While it isn't anything to be ashamed of, RPG's in general tend to carry a bit of a social stigma in most circles. Most people don't care enough to learn what's true and what's not, and if they don't want to learn, I don't feel the need to explain that my friends and I don't go out into the woods and hit each other with sticks, and no, you can't believe everything you hear about the game, especially from people who don't play.
WotC_JoT 09-16-05, 04:19 PM	My co-workers have no problem with my playing D&D.
rbrt_Spade 09-16-05, 04:25 PM	My co-workers have no problem with my playing D&D. i agree how can you be ashamed of it? then dont play it. ;) and now i bow in homage to one of the founders of 3.0....
KingSoft 09-16-05, 04:28 PM	"rolfl" I laughed so hard at JoT's post I almost shot Pepsi on the keyboard.
GwendolynK 09-16-05, 05:28 PM	It's true. Jonathan talks about D&D or other games all the time at work. For that matter, we pretty much all do. :) Outside of work, it depends on the context. Even before I was employed in the industry, I was an avid gamer. I would proudly tell people inquisitive about my life that I played games; I'm a gamer. Responses varied from "Oh, you must spend a lot of time in Vegas" to a leering "What type of games?" to the assumption that I meant computer games. I learned to refine my statement to "I love games: Everything from classic card games to miniatures to board games to roleplaying games, all on the table top format. I do also play computer game versions of some of these." I found this works pretty well. Now, as a game designer, I tell people what I do for a living: I write roleplaying game products, mostly for Dungeons & Dragons. Some folk still assume games and I need to clarify that they're books in paper form. I have no shame. ;) There is one place where I'm less than forthcoming: When I'm playing an on-line computer game. I'm an avid City of Heroes player and have played lots of other games like WoW, GW, and even Lineage. If someone in a MMORPG asks me what I do, I usually just say I'm a writer. A couple of times, I tried to tell the whole truth, but folk just won't believe me. :) I feel very fortunate that I do the work I do and with cool people who understand me. I feel very sad, almost pained, that there are so many of you who aren't in as accepting an environment. Gwendolyn Kestrel
orionm42 09-16-05, 05:36 PM	"I love games: Everything from classic card games to miniatures to board games to roleplaying games, all on the table top format. I do also play computer game versions of some of these." Gwendolyn Kestrel :swoon: Will you marry me? :D
DmMagnus 09-16-05, 05:59 PM	no, it would be not. yes it would! :P
GwendolynK 09-16-05, 06:05 PM	:swoon: Will you marry me? :D Darling! A marriage proposal? How kind! I wish the best for you: a fellow gamer, but I'm not in the market for a spouse. I've got one that suits me just perfectly. I'm quite happy. I linked a fellow gaming geek like me: Andy Collins. We met in a D&D game. A mutual friend of ours, Mike Selinker, put together an AD&D game based on Alan Moore's Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen comic. And, yes, I tell that story to nongamers, too. Those of you with nongaming spouses/SOs I understand. Those of you with nongaming spouses/SOs who don't respect your choice of leisure activity I don't understand. Andy's a college football fan. I'm not. I maybe attend a live game once every couple of years and I won't spend any time watching it on television (too many other things to do: D&D, COH, laundry, etc. that interest me more). I make my choices and spend my time the way I want to, but I don't dis his choices. Football isn't my thing, but it is his and I try to not impede his enjoyment of it. Those of you with anti-gaming SOs have it really rough. Over the years, I've seen more than one friend leave the gaming table because of an impass like this. I intellectually understand it, my heart and my gut tell me it's wrong. Gaming is such a funamental part of who I am (the cooperation, the competition, the creativity, the character building, the strategy and tactics) that I honestly can't imagine giving it up for anyone else.
Aeolus91 09-18-05, 08:28 PM	I forgot to put up my Fire Shield (Chill Shield) for the flamings that I thought would come my way... Heh, its not so bad. I'm surprised that a thread that has de-evolved into one about religious persecution has had not one, but two wizOs post on it without it being locked. Kudos to the wizOs though, because a little righteous indignation is healthy. Especially when it comes from a 10th level Righteous Zealot like me :D
WhtKnt 10-18-05, 10:56 AM	Ashamed? Of playing D&D?! I usually carry my dice bag tied to my belt in case a game spontaneously starts up! I write my RPG reviews during my lunch hour! I openly try to get my co-workers to try D&D (and most of them are 20 years older than I am)! My office walls are decorated with pictures of dragons, Yoda, and medieval re-enactors. I am a geek, a fact of which I am very proud! For the record, I am also open about the fact that I am Wiccan. All of my co-workers know that I am a witch, I am not ashamed to offer my thanks or a prayer to the god or goddess in public, and I wear my pentagram proudly. I'm not gay, but if I were, I wouldn't keep that a secret, either. I see no reason to hide what I am or what I believe. If someone is too small-minded to look past the hype and see me for who I really am, well pity them.
AmanitaEata 10-18-05, 01:36 PM	I'm taking a poll I was under the impression that polls were against the rules in these parts. I've seen threads locked for being kinda sorta a little like a poll. Seeing as this thread has reached 10 pages, that rule must have changed. Good to know, since it was previously enforced in such a random and haphazard way. Good luck with your poll. (My answer is "no")
Slider33 10-18-05, 02:07 PM	Yeah, I'm a closet DnD player. I'm very reluctant to admit that I play to my co-workers due to some recent conversations in which the game was mentioned. For whatever reason DnD was mentioned, the tone was clear: Here were some of my geeky friends ripping on DnD pretty heavily, and a game they all admitting "tried" before in the past. I simply avoided mentioning my involvement with the game and said nothing at all.... Here's a little background on the situation, (which led to my surprise and disappointment) :these friends of mine are my co-workers, who are mostly computer programmers and a few of which also have similar geeky interests or hobbies. And they are likewise the group of people I would expect to be the most open-minded. One individual, which surprised me the most, collects action figures, is a HUGE Wil Wheaton fan, a lover of all things Star Wars, etc. So as long as DnD is the subject of many jokes from this particular group of people, I'll just keep it to myself and the people I trust :D
DmMagnus 10-18-05, 02:58 PM	So as long as DnD is the subject of many jokes from this particular group of people, I'll just keep it to myself and the people I trust :D I am sad to hear people make jokes about your hobby right infront of you! Well some where earlyer in this huge post I said that I was ashamed of playing DnD.. Well I am completly healed! If people ask what my hobbys are I say: Roleplaying, skateboarding, snowboarding and ordering pizza to kranky Dannish neighbourers:P It`s really great to not be ashamed of something that takes up so much of your spare time! When I first started playing DnD, I was afraid to tell my friends that I Played RPG, now most of them play with me! (after I have dragged them into the game!)
da beast 10-18-05, 03:20 PM	I usually carry my dice bag tied to my belt in case a game spontaneously starts up! I cary a small, blunt item at all times incase a musical episode breaks out.
Belgarath 10-18-05, 03:44 PM	I openly discuss DnD everywhere I go with all of my friends, no matter where we are! Storyline plots, new books, dates for the next sessions, new players, rule debates, anything and everything we can think of is discussed almost every day infront of members of the public and family. If you are being laughed at for playing a "geeks" game, just laugh back at the offenders and pick faults with things they enjoy. People who laugh at others either have an IQ in the negative numbers or have issues of their own. DnD is a passion and will never die. Plus, people who play DnD tend to be the more intelligent members of society as the rules can become very complex. The endless hours of fun that roll by in a DnD session represent the beautifully improvised, purely imagined game that us, the DnD fans, thoroughly enjoy every single time the pencils scratch and the dice roll. To talk DnD shouldn't be something to be afraid of, it is the greatest thing to have ever graced this planet. It brings people together and manipulates and tones ones imagination beyond the boundaries of the human mind. I am sure there are millions of people out there (including the thousands of wizards DnD fans) that totally agree with me.
Izzak 10-18-05, 04:07 PM	Im not. If anyone asks what im talking about i say it. Im often seen reading dnd books. Lately its been homeland and exile from the drizzt collection they ask whats it from i say DND and Forgotten Realms. They go ohh and ahh and ask what i do. But others say thats cool maybe ill try it. I would never be ashamed of playing these games nor telling people about it. often they might be new players
Penthar 10-18-05, 04:32 PM	I won't go around advertising it or something, but if the subject gets to hobbies I will mention it without being ashamed. Like said before, it's not like I'm skinning cats or something, it's just an innocent hobby, so I don't feel the need to be ashamed of it. Altough in some circles I would keep it quiet, to avoid getting funny looks. Sadly enough some people immediately connects playing D&D or similar games to being a freak, geek or whatever.
Penthar 10-18-05, 04:33 PM	If you are being laughed at for playing a "geeks" game, just laugh back at the offenders and pick faults with things they enjoy. People who laugh at others either have an IQ in the negative numbers or have issues of their own. Exactly :D.
Leap_UK 10-20-05, 08:57 AM	Hmmm tricky..... Noticing the books can be a real *!!* in a date....not exactly street cred to play DnD lol .... but then again the better girls play it anyway :D
Flushpuppie 10-20-05, 09:32 AM	thuesday (did i spell that right?) no....It's tuesday No need to be ashamed :P
edgy_rhinx 10-20-05, 11:01 AM	I feel that this information, if it comes out, will do me no good. Probably, it will do me no bad, but no good either. Therefore I do not speak about it. My second hobby is chess. Most people in the world do not play chess and do care about it. However it is universally considered that interest in chess is an indication of intelligence. Therefore I eagerly speak about it. Both hobbies are of interest to less than 1% of population. In both of them I am quite average. Yet the first one gives no advantages, whereas the second one shows you in good light. If you look deeper, you will easily notice that all people do the same. For example, it is unlikely that your colleague will tell you that yesterday he saw a Godzilla movie on his home video. However he is glad to discuss a new controversial film of a popular alternative filmmaker. Both films are good only for Japanese audience. Both films are of no interest to you, but…
DmMagnus 10-20-05, 11:54 AM	no....It's tuesday No need to be ashamed :P Thanks! Tuesday, tuesday, tuesday.. have to remember that!
chaz100 10-20-05, 12:12 PM	A couple of my non-gaming friends know about me, but apart from that its a secret. I don't need people calling me a DnD fan everywhere I go, I've already got my Doctor Who obsession to worry about. Oh and "I play Dungeons and Dragons, I wanna check ur Dungeon" is not a good chat-up line, so its best left a secret.. lol.
raven darqhart 10-20-05, 01:30 PM	There's a new breed of nerd out there now. They play D&D, they program computers, they speak Klingon and they kick ass. Seriously, I play D&D twice a month(I'd still be playing everyday, but kids and wife require attention) and I used to be a professional fighter AND a US Army Ranger. Vin Diesel plays D&D. Enough said, now go take your dice bag and PHB and go for a walk. If anyone gives you any ****, hit em in the face with your dice bag!
Baron Von Chaos 10-20-05, 02:21 PM	./
Baron Von Chaos 10-20-05, 02:24 PM	So, to finance the new books, I started a little store at (Link Removed) with products inspired by these boards and the DM's here. Just to be clear, I am in NOT advertising for or in any way promoting the store here. This is just background to my question. Did you remove the link? or did a WizO? Because if it was them that removed it I have a little comment. If i get a negative response for this, I couldnt care less. The guy obviously buys your stuff, he makes a post with a background story and you edit out his link? If it wasnt for people like him this place wouldnt exsist. Cut the poor man some frigin slack and let him get a small plug in! I mean geez as he said he needs cash. He's helped carry WotC through the years, why not help him out now? Afraid at some point you might not have more money then God? lol. Yea I can understand that it would then be endless posts advertisements for peoples website stores but for the love a Mike help a brotha out! QUOTE] Mr. Newfox please send me a link to your website ill advertise for you for free on my website. I have the largest guild on a certain game in a certain server and ALOT of members have their own site in which they will gladly advertise for you. Ok "well he's advertising his business and thats not allowed" blah blah frigin blah. It isnt a flat out advertisment. He clearly has a small cash flow problem, he is not asking for help and its not our responsibility, but cmon! I dont care if no one likes what i said, but it just annoys me when someone isnt flat out asking for help but needs it and along comes someone and sh*ts in his cheerios. As I said im sorry for the rant but its just little things like this irritate the crap out of me. Remember if you have nothing nice to say, you are not thinking hard enough! (oh yea and I wont care )
DungeonMaster_35 10-20-05, 03:35 PM	Yes I think I am a little ashamed of playing D&D. The less people that know about it the better. I think that most people, D&Ders aside, ascociate D&D with a very geeky and nerdy anti-social views. Just me and my players know about it, and thats fine.
Thubby 10-20-05, 04:02 PM	NO, im not embarassed, my friends know, my family got me started on it, and i dont have a job(though it shouldnt matter in a job if i do or dont). i pose a question to all those who are embarassed. WHY DO YOU GIVE A @!*& what anyone thinks? if your friends stop liking you because you play, they arent worth it. as a wise man once told me "those who care dont matter, those dont care matter" P.S. (too young for job)
WoT Fan 10-20-05, 06:07 PM	Used to be embarresed if everything about me wasn't completely normal. Way over that stage now. I have no problem admitting to playing D&D, and I will make fun of myself just for laughs about it, saying things like "Nerd? I am not a nerd! I am a level 12 paladin!" (stolen from a website, I know). People find it funny, and they laugh. I frequently take hours out of my day to do things that are "abnormal" such as Juggling, riding a bike backwards, and other random things that most people don't do. Yeah, I like the attention, but I do it mostly to show people that you can be yourself and have friends. I have more friends now then when I tried to act normal. The last time I was embarrased was a few weeks ago, when I was reading a D&D book waiting for Drivers Ed to start, and this chick walked in who I liked and was like "you play D&D?" in a decending manner. I came very close to denying it, and saying it was my friends book, but I was just like "Heck yeah, almost every weekend." To my surprise, she actually smiled and called me a Dork, but in a good way, where I actually felt glad that she did. Now when I am walking and talking about... Well, anything... She is like "Are you being nerdy again?" smiling warmly, and I joke right back "When am I not?" I guess the lesson to be learned is, if your confident in yourself, then other people will respect your likes. But if your not, then they will sense it and have a degraded opinion of you.
Ront Iron-Roar 10-20-05, 06:20 PM	I've never felt embarassed about DnD. Only angered when people try to put it down. Normally, I retort with the following things. "If DnD sucks, then why has it been around for so long?" "Video games are technically worse then DnD. They require no imagination, they've killed more people then DnD has, and their far more expensive, especially because of the fact that once you beat a game there's not much else to do with it. DnD keeps going on and on." "So DnD is satanic eh? Prove me wrong? Oh, wait you can't because I'm Christian!" "DnD has the ability to offend every religion. Deal with it." "Tell me something, which do you think gives you a stronger arm. Lugging around about 10 DnD books in a bookbag or swinging a baseball bat?" "Vin Diesel plays DnD. And I know about three marines that do to."
raven darqhart 10-21-05, 03:50 AM	Hell I know entire squads of Army Rangers that play D&D(being on myself)! Ever since Bill Gates became uber rich being a nerd is cool now. Go to Hot Topic and you'll see all kinds of D&D references. "Shirt of Invisibility +2" is the best! Vin Diesel was already named, but lets continue that list...Stephen Lynch, George Lucas(why do you think WotC got the Star Wars game deal?), Peter Jackson, Jeff Hardy(of wrestling fame)....anyone else you can think of? I do all of my DM prep stuff at work on breaks. When someone sees the books and gives the trite "You play D&D?" line and say "**** yeah, gotta problem with it?" Then I give them my trademarks cocked grin and all is well, usually. Be loud, be proud, be a Gamer!
Uberman 10-21-05, 05:14 AM	Well let's see, last week I told my Boss I needed the weekend off to go to a gaming convention and compete in the D&D Tournament. THEN I went, my team won second place, and we strolled around the city for nearly an hour with our nifty Cutlasses singing about being the "duke..duke.. duke, dukes of nerds nerds nerds!" As for when people talk down about it... Well that's why I love Saskatoon.. almost NEVER happens! Gaming capitol of Canada! (we like to think) We love being gamers, we love being geeks, and we don't give a crap WHO knows about it. ....Except my Nana cuz she's OLD SCHOOL christian and she'ld freak. *L*
Jarric 10-21-05, 03:30 PM	NO, im not embarassed, my friends know, my family got me started on it, and i dont have a job(though it shouldnt matter in a job if i do or dont). i pose a question to all those who are embarassed. WHY DO YOU GIVE A @!*& what anyone thinks? if your friends stop liking you because you play, they arent worth it. as a wise man once told me "those who care dont matter, those dont care matter" P.S. (too young for job)As you get older you will realize why the opinions of others effect those older than you.
Midnight Lurker 10-21-05, 03:37 PM	My gaming group all works on the same team as computer techs. We're not geeks or nerds, thank you very much. :)
Illion the Red 10-21-05, 03:39 PM	You know, there was a time in which I was embarrassed because I played D&D. Time passed. I played more. I played Magic - that cured me of any embarrassment over D&D. Forever. There was also a time in which I was concerned, almost to the point of embarrassment, that what I wrote would be rejected, mocked, or otherwise derided. This was especially so if I had made a typographical error, grammatical foux pas, or outright misspelled a word. Reading these boards has cured me of that as well...
AMac 10-21-05, 07:49 PM	Ya, the worst is when I am talking to someone who doesn't know I'm a closet DnDer, and one of my DnD friends says some ridicolously non-funny dragon joke or something, which I am forced to give recognition that I "get it" with some forced half-smile, as everyone around me wonders what the hell is going on. Aside from that though...
strike277 10-21-05, 08:35 PM	While reading The DMG at work I had a co-worker come up and say "You know that game is evil." I replied (With a smile mind you) "Yes, and only evil people play it." She walked away with out saying another word. This was two years ago. She never spoke to me again. LOL
Callista 10-21-05, 08:36 PM	Hehe... I bet she took you seriously and now thinks you are the Anti-Christ's cousin... Some people can be such ditzes!
strike277 10-21-05, 08:42 PM	Hehe... I bet she took you seriously and now thinks you are the Anti-Christ's cousin... Some people can be such ditzes! I was trying to portray that. It worked with her. Other than her I've not had any one say anything like that to me about it. I had a friend one time tell me he thought it was stupid. A month later he was sitting at the table on a gaming night biting his nails because his character was about to die. Mind you I'm not one of the "Don't bathe, or have a life kind of gamers. As a matter of fact, those who do find out that I game tend to be pretty shocked. When they find out I've been playing since 1978 they really fall over. Oh well. I love my life !
da beast 10-21-05, 10:54 PM	Here is my favorite response to any anti-dnder/zeliout (http://www.somethingpositive.net/art-monster.html) :rofl: *sniff* its stuff like that that makes we want an animorphic cat :)
Bringer of autumn 10-21-05, 11:01 PM	I'm still in highschool....and so are my friends that play with me. So revealing the 5 of us play D&D might prove most destructive to our social lives....but if someone would judge me on what I do for a hobbey, I wouldn't want to engage in any social interaction with them anyway.
Blue_Dilemma 10-29-05, 09:52 PM	When I was in Jr. High (when I first started playing D&D, you know the little red box) I was afraid to let anyone know that I played. Of course I was completely shy and avoided everyone but my closest friends. Anyway, there was this one kid I always found intimidating. He was a rocker type with the long hair, scabbed over cut on his lip, and sculls all over the place. I normally avoided him if possible. One day though, he comes up to me and says, "Hey, I heared you play Dungeons & Dragons." I thought he was gonna kick my a$$. Turns out that he played too. I guess after that I didn't really see the point in being ashamed of it. We got another player out of it.
Palin the Wizard 10-29-05, 10:18 PM	Embarrassed? About D&D? Hell no.
Amused Frog 10-30-05, 10:29 AM	Like plenty of the above posters, I read books in public if I have them on me. I don't deliberately go out looking to get people yelling "Geek!" at me, but it comes with the territory. The thing is, when you are open about it, you'll often find plenty of other people who used to play or are currently playing. Most of the people I play with at the moment have come about through that. As for the shirts, yeah, I already have quite a few shirts which feature D&D or gamer designs. Plenty of webcomics (Penny Arcade, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Nodwick (Yes, it's print as well)) sell shirts like this and do well out of it.
Mr. NewFox 12-03-05, 11:57 PM	Wow. I never thought, when I began this thread, that I'd get such a response from the D&D community. Normally when I reply to one of my own threads, I try to summarize the other posts, as an exercise for myself. But I find that difficult to do here, not just because I've read through 300+ posts, but because there has been a true cross-section of the D&D community who have stepped forward and made their diverse views known. And to all those who have not been embarrassed by your hobby, I say: you rock. To those that have been-- I hope that the others have given you confidence and encouragement. Last item-- its been a while since I've been on the boards (new job, house, and dog will do that to you). But, if anyone is interesting in the original link and would like a T-shirt or whatever, send me a message and I'll give you the link (and I promise to be better about messages in the future!). Spread the word!
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-04-05, 03:16 AM	I'm not embarassed to play the game. I say it loudly and proudly. But some of the other players deeply, deeply embarass me. On almost a daily basis. But that's any sort of fandom. There's always some guys that have turned it into a religion repleat with saints and rituals and sacred dogma, even if they won't call it such. Those people need to be hosed down.
Silais 12-04-05, 03:38 AM	I'm not realy embaresed about playing D&D or anything. Obviously I don't bring it up at every frigin opertunity. That would make about as much sense as joe redneck introducing himself as: "Hi, I'm joe redneck, I'm a hockey fan." If my interests come up, It gets lumped in with everything else I do. Interestingly, the people whom seem most against D&D in my life would be my non-gamer friends. It's not so much so that they think I'm a bad person for playing it, they just don't get why I think it's fun; much the same way as I don't get why they like drinking parties. The only time I ever actualy got confronted by it was when one of my best friends was trying to annoy me by going all ubber conserviteve christain nut on me. To which I had the following responce: "Your an athiest who thinks that vast majority of people on earth are evil anyway, and can draw the blueprints for various explosives from memory! How am I the danger to society?" Largly though, I live in an accepting community. The church minister I know is fine with D&D, my proffesures (that know) are fine with it, my superiors are fine with it.
swirlyrat 12-04-05, 03:53 AM	I myself am not at all ashamed to play D&D. Its an awesome game and I trully enjoy the time spent with friends slaying dragons, finding treasure, or what ever mayhem might unfold in the evening of play. I see no reason to be ashamed of delving into a fantasy world that sparks creativity in myself and those I play with. While I don't actively go around telling people "Hey I play D&D AHA!", I'll start conversations about the game with fellow gamers, or simply some one at the book store picking up the latest book. If people think differently of me just because I play a game, then its time for me to move on. On an off the subject note, I have skinned a cat once. It wasn't easy. And don't worry, it was in a class room. So, um, yeah! Don't skin cats.
guru7892 12-04-05, 04:35 AM	i'm in highschool... so im not necessaraly open about it... but then again there are anime nerds at my school...and those gammer nerds... so why pick on me?(acually you bully anyone in my school and you get to see a shrink, taxing microsoft does wonders...) yeah, but i stutter, have and braces for 6 YEARS and (sadly) i take school seriously. so im kinda a dorky tight-ass... who reads books.... yes the introductions too. wow... i'm kinda surprised nobody has beaten my ass... maybe it's because i'm tall? On an off the subject note, I have skinned a cat once. It wasn't easy. And don't worry, it was in a class room. So, um, yeah! Don't skin cats. first of all, i beleive there is a technique for doing that and second the more you do it the easier it is. oh and i dont read D&D books in public, it's like a referance material. but i do read books in public, mostly between classes when i have no work. Largly though, I live in an accepting community. The church minister I know is fine with D&D, my proffesures (that know) are fine with it, my superiors are fine with it. sad thing is that i think people are more concerned that i play counter-strike:source than d&d... but not many know that i play either... or both. still hate awpers though.... damn awpers...
Dylan02 12-04-05, 05:19 AM	I get a bit of friendly banter about it. If I have a day off work my co-workers say I was "wounded by a dragon". Just stuff like that. But i hate having to explain the game to people. How do you do it? There's no hard rules, no board, you don't exactly win or lose. People don't understand it because they think of board games. Before I began playing, I used to think my friends would walk around a room, fighting each other with pretend swords. And that was D&D in my mind.
Xykon 12-05-05, 12:30 AM	I myself am not ashamed of it. For ppl who don't know or doesn't know it enough i usually get a friendly discussion. For ppl that hate it goes "ewww", i still go with a friendly discussion -- although i don't really care if they're convinced or not. Its like they say I should be spending money on something else... And I would say, true, true, have you donated recently about the tsunami? actually did donate like USD $200 (note: I'm in HK), you should do too... They would go... "err... yeah thank god i was not in philippines (stupid gith didn't know it was actually hit squarely in indonesia)" I will then go: "Hey, that beer you're holding could save lives! happy hour or not!" FYI, my GF used to hate me when i was playing DnD. She's my wife now :D
dongol 12-05-05, 07:50 PM	Well, I am definitely not ashamed of playing D&D. I wear D&D shirts occasionally (in fact, I'm wearing one right now), and I make fun of myself for playing sometimes. I don't go around shouting it (although when I wear the shirts I might as well), but if someone asks me about it I won't deny it. And something semi-related to this post: I remember last year at my high school church retreat, we had an opportunity to go to confession. I was wearing my D&D shirt. The first thing the priest said after greeting me was "I couldn't help but notice your shirt. Do you guys still play that today?" So we got to talking about the game a bit, and apparently Father Mark played D&D when he was younger. And now he's a Catholic priest.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-05-05, 09:16 PM	I originally thought when I started playing similar games a few years ago that people wouldn't stop making fun of me about it. I wasn't wrong. They do make fun of me. The advantage for me though, unlike a lot of gamers at my high school, is that I also happen to be a black belt, wrestle, and box. Last time someone said that "slaying dragons" would make me fat, I put him in a headlock for the next two minutes. Now almost everyone knows I play, especially since I wear gamer shirts in public, but at least now they don't annoy me to my face. But I know other people who are ashamed of it. Some people I know will never talk about the game in public, no matter how hard I try to ask them something. IMHO, anyone who's going to give you a hard time over something they don't know anything about isn't worth knowing anyways.
dan1234 12-05-05, 09:17 PM	Well yes and no. In high school (I only graduated last year) I was pretty well knowed by most people. I was the guy in high school that everyone likes, I would talk to everyone. I don't know if you guys know what I mean, but. . . I went to parties every weekend, and drank every weekend (I am just giving background, not trying to sounds cool). But I hung out with mostly the outcast (punk, stoners). The only people that did not like me were the jocks, but I did not really care. I was still liked by all the chicks, so. . . My point being that I would talk with my D&D friends about D&D in high school, but I wouldn't talk about it with anyone else. All my close friends know I play D&D, but they don't care. Well a few of my close friends play D&D too so. . . But when other people would ask me about it, I would tell them I play, and it's a game. Whatever the question was. . . But I would never like to talk about it around other people, and I still don't. I like to keep the lid on it. I do get embarrassed when I am in public with some players, and we see something and they he will vocally scream a reference to D&D. At that point I just drop my head, but I mean. I don't even know if I am ashamed or not. I read FR novels in public a lot. But I mean it's a book, they don't know what it means. If I am asked about it, I will say it's a book, fantasy. I don't feel the need to say that it refers to D&D. So am I ashamed?? I honestly don't know, you tell me. I guess I have mix feelings about it... EDITE: But I would ware a shirt in public. This one shirt some one I knew had, said : GOD SAVES AND TAKES HALF DAMAGE No one outside of gamers got it, and would ask questions about it all the time. If I could get my hands on a shirt like that, I would wear it.
Rocketboy13 12-05-05, 09:37 PM	EDITE: But I would ware a shirt in public. This one shirt some one I knew had, said : GOD SAVES AND TAKES HALF DAMAGE No one outside of gamers got it, and would ask questions about it all the time. If I could get my hands on a shirt like that, I would wear it. Here is the link: http://www.zestuff.com/product.php?productid=6&cat=4&page=1 Have fun with your apparel.
dan1234 12-05-05, 09:59 PM	Here is the link: http://www.zestuff.com/product.php?productid=6&cat=4&page=1 Have fun with your apparel. I guess it's the same principal, but not the same. I much ratter have the GOD SAVES AND TAKES HALF DAMAGE shirt. It just has more spice to it. IMO Edit: I found this linkhttp://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?affid=-1&productID=283 it's even closer to what I am looking for...
Jesper 12-05-05, 10:57 PM	Ashamed? Given that I read my gamebooks in public, I think it's a bit too late for that reaction on my part ;) So, no, not ashamed, not embarassed, just damned proud of it :D here here!!
Jacilla 12-05-05, 11:29 PM	I’m not sure ashamed or embarrassed are the right terms although when I was younger, like in college when I first started playing, I didn’t offer my head for a public berating (D & D was considered evil then). Over the years I’ve gotten over that, with family, friends and even coworkers. And since until just recently I co-owned and operated a gaming store I guess it’s a little late to worry about keeping it a secret. However I was surprised to learn that there are still people out there laboring under the impression that the game is evil (we had to close the store when a church moved into the store front next to us and … uhm … yeah I was shocked. I thought people had gotten over that old misconception.) So after that experience I can understand why people keep their gaming under their hats. People do look at me somewhat strangely though, given my age, I guess I was suppose to drop D & D for something more old lady like, like, I don’t know, Bridge or Pinochle. Not really up on what’s considered “cool” for my age group I guess. Of course, they also give me odd looks when they find out I play video games and listen to Nine Inch Nails. Go figure.
Wharin 12-06-05, 12:30 AM	I wear my Geek on my sleeve. All the time. In fact its night impossible to get rid of it as its tattoo'ed on my arm. Half-inspired by my roommate who has the Hyrulian Shield tattooed on the ball of his shoulder, and by Vin Diesel who "tattooed" the names of his characters on xXx's stomach, I decided to get the Moradin holy symbol inked on the ball of my shoulder. The way i see it, its either a discussion piece or just a cool tattoo. The only people who would out me as a nerd would have to be nerds themselves and thus would make a good ice-breaker opening discussion with strangers. Otherwise it looks sorta norse-like and hard core. Though if anyone asks I admit that its a DnD tattoo.
mydoom.b 12-06-05, 12:40 AM	I proudly embrace my geekdom, hell im posting in the official dungeons and dragons forum, am i not
WhtKnt 12-06-05, 09:42 AM	People do look at me somewhat strangely though, given my age, I guess I was suppose to drop D & D for something more old lady like, like, I don’t know, Bridge or Pinochle. Not really up on what’s considered “cool” for my age group I guess. Of course, they also give me odd looks when they find out I play video games and listen to Nine Inch Nails. Go figure.Milady, I fully intend to be running games at the retirement home!
Wharin 12-06-05, 10:28 AM	Milady, I fully intend to be running games at the retirement home! Yeah! Right on! I always had sort of a dark fantasy of doing just that as well.
Psychoticpsymon 12-06-05, 10:31 AM	Ashamed? Hell I play at my college and people are interested, not cynical.
Jacilla 12-06-05, 12:21 PM	Originally Posted by WhtKnt Milady, I fully intend to be running games at the retirement home! Hey now, that’s an idea, DMing in the Retirement Home. When my players get out of line I can just bop them over the head with my cane. I love it, however cliche it may be!!!
Karasuko 12-06-05, 03:45 PM	I think everyone has a bit of dork deep inside of them, and that until you admit it, you'll never be confidant in yourself. :ayyyy!: I'm not ashamed of my D&D gaming at all! I even have an earring made out of a D20! :D The only people who make negative comments are usually ignorant, so I don't let it bother me. I just imagine them being roasted by a fireball. :mage:
raven darqhart 01-11-06, 11:56 AM	By the way, if anyone is wondering who else among the celebrities is a D&D nerd...Insane Clown Posse is strongly suspected, but we are awaiting verification as of yet. In several of their songs they make references to ability scores and weapons with +2 features, not to mention that the Dark Carnival and it's characters sound like they were taken right out of Ravenloft.
Roxlimn 01-11-06, 12:10 PM	I'm not ashamed at all of playing D&D. I wouldn't talk about it at work simply because people don't like talking about stuff that doesn't interest them. I would no more talk about my other hobbies. It's not generally considered polite to talk off someone's ear about matters that don't interest them, whether it's your 12th level Sorcerer, your latest mountain hike, or your latest bike race. If they're interested, sure, I talk shop. I don't believe that there's any shame in it. A few coworkers once asked me if D&D involved real spells and such, and I guess the incredulous and frankly amused look I gave them told them enough to embarrasingly withdraw the question. I've clarified more than once that the hobby was nothing more complicated than a pen and paper version of "computer games," when asked, and that seem to smooth out a lot of questions. Computer games like Super Mario Brothers and Final Fantasy are immensely popular and virtually mainstream. Gives me a nice platform for introduction. More than a few people have voiced interest in playing a game, but I sadly can't accomodate everyone. I don't generally invite people to games I DM unless I'm already hanging out with them.
Jodjod 01-11-06, 12:38 PM	I really couldn't care less what other people think. I don't go around shouting from the rooftops that I play D&D, but I certainly wouldn't shy away from mentioning it as one of my hobbies.
High Octane 01-11-06, 12:39 PM	I agree. I tend to avoid talking about D&D, not because I am ashamed, but I realized finally that unless you play it, you really won't care. I dont want to bore people with it. I NEVER deny it though.
jagggar 01-11-06, 01:21 PM	I've got the most weird ashamed thing going on. I started out with a tiny bit of religous shame, but after reading MJ Young's essays on the subject, I'm completely over that. There's a bit of geeky-shame that comes and goes depending on the setting (when I first started taking my D&D books to school I hid them well. By the end of high school, I was nearly flipping pages during passing period). I'm female (there are some issues on top of that that have no actual connection any reall male gamers, just males in general) and an introvert and have had virtually no quality face-to-face roleplaying. So I feel a little bit awkward when I walk into my FLGS (sadly one's just closed and the others turned into a FSemi-DistantGS). Saying I've owned my books for 5+ years and haven't really developed an RPing style is hard enough, but I have to say "hello" on top of that? I just feel strange.
janco 01-11-06, 04:20 PM	I’ve spent a really long time reading this entire thread. And I must say it is extremely interesting. Personally, I must confess to feeling a little uneasy about playing D&D. Embarrassed and ashamed aren’t really the right words. I say uneasy, because I’m now 27 years old, and I associate D&D with childhood rather than adulthood. I have only recently started playing again after more than 10 years out of the game. In those 10 years I have done a lot with my life… attended 2 universities, played in bands, got my masters degree, lived and worked in many different places, got married and moved from the UK to USA last year. Now I’m living in the US, and I recently started up D&D again. And I feel uneasy because I’m wondering why it is that I’m suddenly drawn towards the game now at the age of 27… It seems to me that D&D is, and always has been, a game played by outsiders of one kind or another. I have a vivid memory of an Autumn breaktime in between classes in high school… aged 14… sat on a bench in the playground on my own reading the old red D&D Basic Set… all the other kids running around doing who knows what, playing soccer etc… and there I was, immersed in this other world and Larry Elmore’s illustrations… I was an outsider… I had long hair then and listened to classic rock that my parents had played to me… I was picked on a lot by other kids. Not for D&D, but just simply for being an outsider… someone who obviously stuck out from the crowd. No one understood who I was or what I was reading… The only people that understood were the 3 other friends I had who also played D&D… We spent whole summers shut away in bedrooms and garages playing adventure after adventure after adventure… rolling dice… imagining… My advice to those teenagers out there who are having a hard time, or who feel embarrassed about playing D&D is to just get through it. What your doing is unusual, and in comparison to so-called “normal” society it is weird. – But who wants to be normal anyway!? You are special. You are probably the most intelligent and creative people in your school. Being “normal” is not what life is about. Life is about breaking away from norms and discovering things for yourself. Those who make fun of you simply do not understand you, because you are way ahead of them. You’re thinking outside the box. You are an outsider. Be proud of that fact. As for me now, I’m really enjoying playing D&D again. The game has changed a lot since I was playing it the early 90s, but I found the transition pretty easy. My hair is a bit shorter now, but I’m still an outsider at heart.
NeoRaven01 01-11-06, 05:54 PM	I tend not to talk about it outside of my group of friends because it seems unless you are Janco said, an outsider, you really don't care about it and so will make fun of it. The last person I tried to explain to was a guy at school who thought all D&D was was a group of weirdos sitting around at a table looking at a piece of paper and making things up. Quite...Annoying...So yeah I only talk about it to my friends that play it on a non-regular basis and to the couple that play it on a regular basis. So basicly I refrain from speaking of it around people that can easily mistake it as a stupid paper thing.
JamesDruidDM 01-11-06, 06:15 PM	I cant belive all the posts I see about peoples families coming down on them for playing DnD... that makes me sad And no one should ever feel ashamed for playing anything, not even the awful achordian! if you do it and enjoy dont ever be ashamed of it. :invasion:
Saurstalk 01-11-06, 07:21 PM	Ashamed? Given that I read my gamebooks in public, I think it's a bit too late for that reaction on my part ;) So, no, not ashamed, not embarassed, just damned proud of it :D I tend to eat lunch in my office. During that time, I read splat books or Paizo mags or do a little internet gaming with friends. Of course, just because my door's closed doesn't stop people from visiting - secretaries, co-workers, bosses. Heck, just today, during lunch hour, my boss came in to give me my evaluation. Sitting atop my desk, amidst all the paper work and clutter of the job was my latest issue of Dungeon. No hiding it, no embarassing remarks, no nothing. (Of course, he used to game, too.) Also, I also proudly display on my truck two bumper stickers: "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup" and "I brake for kobolds." In the end, I don't shy from ignorance around the game. Yes, it is a bit geeky. Yes, there are some people who are a bit TOO INTO DnD. But hey, it's good for social skills, imagination, math and reading. It teaches actions and consequences, and usually doesn't involve the loss of money (like poker night) or injury (like middle-aged men playing basketball).
Gworraent 01-11-06, 08:02 PM	I agree. I tend to avoid talking about D&D, not because I am ashamed, but I realized finally that unless you play it, you really won't care. I dont want to bore people with it. I NEVER deny it though. Me too, I don't wanna bore people, but I'm constantly making connections to DnD with my gamer buddies. I right stuff like, your d12 cries it'self to sleep on boards at school. I brake for kobolds etc. I NEVER deny and can be seen discussing and reading DnD books in public
WhtKnt 01-11-06, 08:06 PM	Meh. If I wear my pentacle, I'm an outsider. If I carry my D&D books, I'm an outsider. Six of one, half-dozen of the other...
Jesper 01-11-06, 08:13 PM	ashamed of dnd? NEVER I have been playing the game since I was six (thats right I was raised by gamers!) Having played the game for more then two thirds of my life I have no problem at all with it. I nor am I ashamed of playing mtg, vtm or larping so there you have it.
Delryn 01-11-06, 08:35 PM	It depends on my company. Around work, no, I keep it secret. It's possibly a sad commentary on life, but I don't want to give any negative impressions (when it's your income, you do what you have to do and just deal with prejudices). snip Around my friends or family, I'm quite open about it. Some will laugh and some won't, but I don't care. I'm not going to hide who I am from those I let in my "inner circle". I am me, geek am I, love me *snarf*!! :) Ditto
Mike Lowder 01-11-06, 09:35 PM	My parents were very cool about it. Hell they still are.......bought me some 3.5 books recently. My best Eagle Scout, Alterboy, honor roll, college graduate friends I grew up with were/are still into it. Most of them are even respected members of the community. My paternal uncle is a published Forgotten Realms author and a hell of a guy. So yeah, I catch some guff at work but it's from the insecure macho types so I blow it off. I played before the degree, the wife, the house, and the kids. Hell I've been playing D&D longer than I've been playing with ...........nevermind. Like a wise man once said, screw'em if they can't take a joke. PS I wish my Father in Law would quit asking me if I won after every weekly session. He just doesn't get it..........
Saurstalk 01-11-06, 10:07 PM	My parents were very cool about it. Hell they still are.......bought me some 3.5 books recently. My best Eagle Scout, Alterboy, honor roll, college graduate friends I grew up with were/are still into it. Most of them are even respected members of the community. My paternal uncle is a published Forgotten Realms author and a hell of a guy. So yeah, I catch some guff at work but it's from the insecure macho types so I blow it off. I played before the degree, the wife, the house, and the kids. Hell I've been playing D&D longer than I've been playing with ...........nevermind. Like a wise man once said, screw'em if they can't take a joke. PS I wish my Father in Law would quit asking me if I won after every weekly session. He just doesn't get it.......... I wish I could agree. I'm fortunate enough that my wife accepts my gaming. My parents on the other hand? Well, let me put it this way. Every year, they get me a magazine subscription to a magazine that I don't read. And every year I suggest that they get me a subscription to one of the Paizo mags instead. Ah well.
Gworraent 01-11-06, 10:11 PM	If I had :twocents: for every time my Dad asked me if anyone actually ever wins in DnD, well, let's just say I'd have a DnD library.
Lady_Luck 01-11-06, 10:13 PM	My wife and I are just as proud as anybody else about their hobby. We see guys with fly fishing T-shirts and get into conversations. "So, you fly fish, huh?" "yeah!" "Ya caught anything recently?" "Oh yeah, caught a 10 inch rainbow the other day. The 14 incher got away, broke my line." "Too bad!" "What do you guys do?" "We game, we play D&D." "Oh, what do you do when you play D&D?" "We saved a town from the ravages of an evil fire-breathing dragon. Lost the paladin though." "Too bad!" I've met several fellow gamers while working, I guess it depends on your job, and how you feel others will perceive you. Some jobs (Like plumbing and professional sattelite installation) it doesn't seem to matter. Sidenote: Wife tried to tell her Grandma what we do every weekend, but she didn't get it. They finally decided that we are "like actors in a play." Some people really just don't "get it."
Roxlimn 01-11-06, 10:27 PM	I prefer not to make inside jokes about D&D to people who will probably not understand it. It's funny to me, of course, but I've found that trading inside jokes with a buddy when in the company of other people is a lot like speaking a foreign language - nobody else understands you and it makes them feel left out and insulted.
Elemental_Elf 01-11-06, 11:45 PM	Ashamed of it, no never. Embarsed about it, slightly. Then again I'm embarased that I play video games for days on end and how i used to play CCGs and how I love scifi shows.... Yeah I have alot to be embarased about, lol. But does that stop me from playing? No never. Does that stopme from going up infront of a college class and saying "I PLAY D&D AND I LOVE IT!!!!" yeah, yeah it does.
dan1234 01-12-06, 12:17 AM	If I had :twocents: for every time my Dad asked me if anyone actually ever wins in DnD, well, let's just say I'd have a DnD library. Ha Ha Ha. . . :rofl: I don't know if it's a global thing, but when we use to play at my house, my dad would always ask "Who's winning?"
ConfoundedReptile 01-12-06, 03:03 AM	I'm careful mentioning it bc I don't always want to have to explain myself. No one's ever like, oh ok, yeah I play golf and tennis. They either think its cool, or they dont know what it is at all, or they think its evil, or they think it's a nerdfest. Sometimes its a pain to have to go into what it is. I should just get a box of jack chick tracks, then I wouldnt have to explain anything. So its not that I'm ashamed or embarrassed; I just dont always feel like telling people why it isnt evil or why it doesn't mean I'm a social retard. I grew up Baptist, so there was some of the D&D is the devil nonsense in the 80s and 90s. Fortunately, my brother got the debate on that going so I didn't have to. But no one got excommunicated; maybe they thought he was the devil, but he didnt really fit in anyways. After all, he listened to Bon Jovi, and of course that really was the devil. In my opinion, if people don't like you because you're different than whatever idea they have of normal, or whatever rules they think you should follow, then they'll find something to criticize. But most religious people I hang out with are pretty open-minded anyways. I dont really ever talk much with the royal a-holes. And I work at a graphic design firm in minneapolis, so we're all geeky. So no problem mentioning dnd at work. It isnt any different from the guy who obsesses about x-box 360 all the time or the guy whose cube is filled with star wars figures or the guy with stacks of records and a turntable hooked up to his mac.
Daste 01-12-06, 03:35 AM	I'm sorry, not to make anyone mad here, but to feel 'ashamed' because you play a game? Well, that deserves therapy. I have a few gaming shirts, such as - gaming god, you may bow before me - that I wear whenever I want. I kinda grew out of that whole highschool 'does she like me, does he like me, will they accept me for who I am' stage when I left highschool. Anyways, I like the idea. Both me and my wife buy stuff like that. We enjoy it. Send your store link to my e-mail and I might just order something from ya. Oh, and as for everyone being all hush hush because they won't be 'accepted'. Just tell those ignorant people about all the hollywood stars that game. It usually shuts them up pretty quick. Best one to tell guys is that Vin Diesel is a gamer.
raven darqhart 01-12-06, 03:40 AM	So I was talking to wifey the other day and we were discussing gaming and sex(long story, but it involves a horny elf and a gold dragon in human form) and we got on the topic of nerds and sexuality and such. She has said she couldn't find any of my friends really attractive because they seemed too nerdy. This was news to me, as I am a nerd and she's very attracted to me. She explained that I don't look the part. I'm in excellent physical condition(athletic) and I look like a bad ass kinda guy. Then I pointed out that if you take the glasses of my buddies, they're the same way(a lil more flabby, but that's just genetics). Anyway, I explained that nerds aren't what they used to be. The "Revenge of the Nerds" phase is over. Nerds now come in packages that look just like any other, from Sandra Bullock(I've heard she's a big NWN fan) to Vin Diesel. Nerds and geeks are now running Fortune 500 companies and, as such, aren't constrained by financial limitations. We have clothing aimed directly at us(such as Hot Topic's +2 Shirt of Invisibility), not to mention entire TV channels(G4T). Of course...I manage to explain that to her and then this week 4 new guys started at work....looking like they just walked off the set of RotN. They aren't just old school nerds...they are elitist nerds. They won't talk to us, even though we're outside in the break area with the same 3.5 books, all talking about gaming. They snub us because we're "trying to fit in" with the norms. I just don't get it...I really don't.
LenDragon 01-12-06, 09:00 AM	If I wore D&D T shirts to work the other "suits" would have a fit, but they do know I play, I make no secret of it and several have expressed mild interest if I am planning one of my games at lunch time, drawing maps, looking up monster stats etc. My mother used to wish me good luck if she knew I was not visiting her because I was playing, and often asked who won. My daughter just asks for more XP and better armour/weapons/spells though as she has inherited the geek-gene. Her BF and some of her friends are players as are friends of mine. In fact Either gamers make better friends or there is some other underlying state as most of my longer term friends are gamers.
YRM 01-12-06, 09:04 AM	Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks. Yeah. Even people who play D&D computer games often look at D&D players as antisocial nerds or geeks, sometimes, for good reason. The stereotype isn't always true, and, in Europe and other places, you might see as many hot girls and jock builds gaming as fat guys in a sweaty anime shirt, but, the stereotype still has some teeth in the U.S. One of my friends in our gaming group was an active duty Marine a while back and is now a nuclear engineer for submarines. He runs marathons, and he's a dependable family man and reliable friend with a very level and logical approach to life. He is very no-nonsense, and, outwardly, as far from a geek or nerd as you can get. However, he loves sci-fi and fantasy, and has a great imagination. He's our groups most avid player, and the best role-player among us. Once, when he was riding his motorcycle to his job (which requires security clearance) the gate guard had to check his gun case... Well, my friend was mortified to realize that he had D&D miniatures in the gun case. The guard opened the case, looked down at the plastic toys, looked back up at my friend... looked down... looked up... raised an eyebrow and said, "Ok..." And my friend said... "Yeah, um... thanks..." and walked in. We all laughed about it, and we can all laugh at ourselves, but, voluntarily kicking yourself down in social status at work or among non-nerds by admitting to being a D&D geek isn't a good thing. (if they ask, or show interest, it's ok to mention it and answer truthfully without shame) I don't necessarily hide that I play. If someone asks, I don't hesitate to admit I have some nerdy hobbies... but I don't advertise it either. So many people in the real world have had run-ins with nerds who will expound boringly on their geeky hobbies that there's a real stigma associated with it. Almost nobody wants to hear about it if you pretend to be an elf wizard in your spare time, and they certainly don't think better of you for it. While at work, or around other friends, it's best to keep the subject related to sports or jokes or stupid/funny things that happened to people you all know.
WhtKnt 01-12-06, 12:23 PM	...voluntarily kicking yourself down in social status at work or among non-nerds by admitting to being a D&D geek isn't a good thing. (if they ask, or show interest, it's ok to mention it and answer truthfully without shame).This obviously doesn't work for everybody, but if I really gave a rat's hindquarters about what people think of me, I'd have committed suicide a long time ago. I grew up being an outsider, even before D&D. I had bad acne as a kid, and got teased a lot for it. In high school, I had a lot of trouble getting dates. I think I went on a total of six dates the entire time I was in school (from junior high to graduation). Honestly, if I cared what people's opinion of me was, I'd have decided it wasn't worth it by now. The only two person whose opinion really concerns me is my wife. I listen to the thoughts and opinions of my friends, of course, but when you get right down to it, who do you have to impress?
janco 01-12-06, 01:28 PM	...The last person I tried to explain [it] to was a guy at school who thought all D&D was was a group of weirdos sitting around at a table looking at a piece of paper and making things up. quite...Annoying... This basically IS D&D surely?
oxybe 01-12-06, 01:55 PM	am i ashamed, nah? does it still have a stigma? yeah. but why should i care? i don't hang around people that have nothing in common with me. I don't hang around people who i know will be insulted by my hobbies (for whatever reasons those mal-ajusted people might have). i have always done this, i only associated myself with people i like. if you don't like me, don't talk to me. don't get in my face. **** me off and you will probly get a verbal beatdown and a double serving of humble pie. with frosting. mmmm... frosting... uh, right, D&D and social stigma. anyways, highschool was nothing for me. i grew up in a rural community where k-12 was in 1 builing and had around 430 students in total, not per class, total. i graduated in a class of 23. so everyone knew everyone quite well, and we were considered nerdy, geeky people, but we were socially correct people. we were helpful, nice fellowes, who didn't do drugs, had history of violence (ok, as a little kid i did have a temper problem, but that was resolved long before the teenage years), we weren't party goers but we did have a life after school. yeah d&d players can be a bit odd, but then again what group isn't? the jocks slap each other on the ass with wet towels that once covered their... um... yeah. real normal there guys. d&d is a 30 dollar investment. 60 is necessary for a DM (PHB and MM, DMG is actually optional - i DM'ed for 3 years with my own charts and magic items, many of them still in use today) 90 for the dedicated. actually, since there are system reference documents out there, you don't need to actually buy the game, it's technically free to anyone with the net. do poker players hide their hobby, sitting around a table playing cards, eating chips and chatting? no. why should I? just a few weeks ago, i was at Coles (bookstore), looking at Heroes of Horror, thinking about buying it when this random guy came up to me and just asked if i played d&d. i stuttered, amazed that he brought up d&d (moreso since he brought up Grayhawk) and we talked for a while. it was great. a longer while ago a similar scenario happened with draconomicon. and before that, the epic level handbook, and WAY back when V.3.0. you never know who plays d&d until you pick up a book and read it. Now, i am a geek. this is 100% certifiable since i am finishing a Network Administration degree (last semester) while working at a call center (troubleshooting PC's). i enjoy some anime, video games, minis and card games. a few of the guys at work are advid D&D players, MMORPG players, FR book readers, ect... so being vocal about my hobby isn't a problem. I don't own any slogan shirts (all are blank, generic, bargin bin t-shirts). i hate button up collar shirts, but only because i have a very short, thick neck and they choke me (you will only see me with a neck tie on 2 occasions, graduation and maybe my wedding). my pantaloons are of the generic variety. sweat pants for lounging at home, nice pants for work. Now, as for the touchy religion issue. i call myself an atheist. why? no religion has yet to prove to me that they are ''correct''. i admit to have christian roots (family), and i do have a firm belief in the basic principals of christianism (be kind to your fellow man, be just and honest, ect...)but the slection of diffrent ''gods'' is quite vast i cannot decide if i even want to follow a religous path. if deities do exist they have yet to show me their way it the way to go, with hurricanes, tidal waves, wars, ect... i am ready to have a discussion about religion, but PM so it can be done without flooding the thread. so sum up my post: nope. i'm a gamer and proud of it.
drake_vampiel_d 01-12-06, 02:08 PM	heck if I wasn't so open about gaming I'd never meet the people I Play with cause noone would know about it
Cymraegmorgan 01-12-06, 02:29 PM	Yeah. Even people who play D&D computer games often look at D&D players as antisocial nerds or geeks, sometimes, for good reason. A good reason? How is a social game antisocial? :confused: I am thirty-eight. I have played D&D for 25 years. I take my books to work with me occasionally. Once in a blue moon, I get the "work of the devil" comment. :rolleyes: Mostly, people take no notice, or say things like, "D&D! I remember that! I used to have this super bad a$$ fighter that....blah....blah..." I even put that I play D&D on my resume. :P
janco 01-12-06, 06:57 PM	A good reason? How is a social game antisocial? :confused: I agree. One of the best thing about D&D, and in my opinon, one reason why it remains so popular is its social aspect. Computer games are enjoyable, and I'm into those to a point. But the thing is with D&D is that its a group of people getting round a table and imagining stuff together .
YRM 01-12-06, 08:26 PM	Even people who play D&D computer games often look at D&D players as antisocial nerds or geeks, sometimes, for good reason. A good reason? How is a social game antisocial? The game is not antisocial. Many of the players are not antisocial. However, some (not all) people who play the game, for whatever reason, have below average social skills in public. This is true for any group... you may feel that some sports-nuts have poor social skills, as they will debate you tooth and nail over what play the coach should have called two weeks ago in the 3rd quarter, even if you don't want to debate that play. Have you ever brought up a rule change to a D&D gamer who has a personality that resists change? Me, talking happily to fellow DM at a convention - "Yeah, I'm getting used to horses taking up a 10x10 area now, instead of 5x10..." Angry gamer (this is from a real life experience) - "THEY DO!? WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? THOSE MORONS AT WOTC CAN'T LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE! HOW IN THE HELL DOES A HORSE TAKE UP A 10x10 SQUARE..." Me - "Well maybe they think that in combat, the horse is wheeling around, kicking and spinning as it's rider positions for multiple attacks..." Angry gamer - (as if he didn't even hear that) "WOTC MUST THINK GAMERS ARE ALL STUPID THAT WE CAN'T GRASP THE CONCEPT OF A 5x10 AREA... YET ANOTHER HOUSE RULE I HAVE TO USE! JUST LIKE HOW STUPID THEY WERE FOR CHANGING HASTE..." Me - "Um, I have to go." So, the guy wasn't exactly anti-social in that he was in a social setting, and he was speaking, but, his social skills, and ability to deal with rational changes to his game, were not so good. He really shocked me when he went off like that, out of nowhere almost, but, I've seen this kind of stuff from time to time. Comic Book Guy on the Simsons probably plays some social games of D&D, but, in general, he's anti-social. That is the stereotype that non D&Ders have for those of us who play. Even if they know you, and know you're not like that, there's a stigma. It's not so much that I care what they think, but rather than I don't care enough to bring it up and have to deal with the consequences of whatever they think. If they find out, or ask, I don't hide it... but this post sort of asked if you'd blatantly advertise that you're a D&D nerd. If you would, that's no problem... but I wouldn't. I go to the gym about four times a week, doing ok, but I also don't wear form fitting shirts with World Class Fitness 300 Club on the front. (or talk about working out with anyone who doesn't bring it up)... (except now, as an example) It's just not important to me if people know or not... so I don't advertise it with a coffee mug or t-shirt so I don't have to bother dealing with whatever reactions they might want to have. Shrug.
LordofNightmares 01-12-06, 08:38 PM	A good reason? How is a social game antisocial? :confused: Kinda OT, but the recent magazene adds for this are great. some guy sitting in fron of a computer, and it says "If you are going to sit in your basement and pretend you're an elf anyway, have some freinds over while you do it." When I was in the service people who spent their entire time plating EQ and similar MMORPG treid to make fun of me for playing D&D twice a week. I could not understand how 4 guys and 2 girls gettign togehter to hang out, do everythign everyone in the barracks was doing, but instead of playing HALO for 4-6 hours afterwork on a tues, and for 8 or so hours on saturday, we would roll some dice, kill orcs, gain some xp and have fun.. I even put that I play D&D on my resume. :P That requires moxy. I like moxy. *thumbs up*
Dragonklaw82 01-12-06, 09:29 PM	I personally don't discuss it with non-gamers, or more to the point, with non-"geeks". I wouldn't say I'm ashamed of it. Its just not worth the hassle of explaining my hobbies to people who won't understand anyway. If I'm in the company of friends, chances are that they play anyway, so gaming jokes are common. It's pretty simple; I don't spend any more time around people who are going to judge me based on a hobby than I absolutely have to. As for answering the question, "would I wear D&D memoribilia?" Most of the time, the answer is yes. When I have to meet with a potential employer, important academic advisor, or a similar such person, the answer is no. However, I do this for the same reason that I would not wear, say, a Pantera t-shirt to a job interview. In a casual situation, its no different for me to wear a D&D t-shirt than if I were to wear any other pop culture reference across my chest. Will I be labeled a geek? Probably? But if I had a problem with that I wouldn't be posting on the D&D message boards, would I? If you're ashamed of being a gamer, then maybe you should reconsider why you play in the first place.
AMac 01-12-06, 09:54 PM	I even put that I play D&D on my resume. :P Did you get the job?!
YRM 01-12-06, 10:16 PM	I personally don't discuss it with non-gamers, or more to the point, with non-"geeks". I wouldn't say I'm ashamed of it. Its just not worth the hassle of explaining my hobbies to people who won't understand anyway. If I'm in the company of friends, chances are that they play anyway, so gaming jokes are common. You wrote that better than I did. But that's how I feel. As for the other stuff, I do have some non-gamer friends. I have a wife, and a young daughter, and we have "couple friends". I also have some casual friends that I'll watch a game with, or go skiing with... stuff like that. My closest friends are gamers, but, they all have a variety of other hobbies and sport interests too. I'm not going to embarrass my wife though, by bringing up D&D at a large family function and possibly getting into a big debate about it or something. Actually, the marine/engineer guy that I game with... he's older than me, w a family, but his own mother thinks it's the tool of the devil. She explained this to me while we were ALL going to see Lord of the Rings as part of a big friends and family event. (she brought it up... out of the blue, because I guess my friend's son spilled the beans at some point) After the movie I put on my "working with clients" friendly attitude and explained to her that it's not what she thinks, and the game is a lot like the movie she just liked so much. I don't think it helped, long term, but she appeared temporarily appeased. I passed my diplomacy check I guess, but, at best, she was indifferent. Again, it's not that I really cared what she thought of me, but, I didn't care enough to get upset about her views either. (see, I am a loser...)
Corrino 01-12-06, 10:28 PM	I'm a Christian, and I play DnD - in fact I'm training to DM (*shiver* *going to Hell* lol) But seriously, at my work and church people are prejudiced against RPGs and DnD, because of the crowd around here that plays them are not the best people in the world. But the gtoup, for example, that I play with is perfectly fine... nor suicidal terrors, rapists, or thugs among us. lol. In any case, I've read/written at work before, but I don't openly, intentionally display it. I might wear the shirt. I dunno. I guess it's the association with other ideas that I dislike, not the game itself.
Cymraegmorgan 01-12-06, 10:54 PM	Did you get the job?! Yes. :D
mearrin69 01-12-06, 10:57 PM	I'm not terribly embarassed about it but I don't really broadcast it or anything. My wife accepts that I will continue to spend endless money on all sorts of gaming products. To the unashamed gamers in some previous posts who talk about it ALL the time to everyone they meet no matter the circumstance: This would make you boorish no matter what topic you chose. Maybe dial it back and the rest of us will face less flack from the non-gaming public :eek: ;) M
Nerdicus 01-13-06, 11:14 AM	When I firt started playing DnD in highschool me and my two gaming buddies kept it on the Downlow. Every so often we would have guest players who wanted to try it out, but few poeple could enmesh themselves into the game enough to stick with it. As time went on it just became the thing we did on quite nights when ther was nothing else to do, or no-one else around. Years have gone by and I stopped playing for a while, and am now trying to get back into it. My problem is I am new too an area. My wife and I moved to a small island two years ago ( 5000 people). I have purchased the core books for the 3.5 version but have no-one to play with. I don't know many people on my island and the people that i do know are not the gaming type. So I would wear a DnD Tshirt just for the chance that a fellow gamer on the island would be all, " hey, Do you play?" Being a Nerd is the shiznat. I have been a proud nerd for as long as I can remember. I rock the nerd in everything I do. I'm a turntablist and hiphop producer. Some people think that that would make me a cool guy. They obviously haven't met many DJ's. Most of them that I know are hard core music nerds. Get two or more of us in a room together and the discussion turns to nerd technicallities of scratching or MIDI synching alarmingly fast. Just like if you get a couple gamers in the room( espescailly DMs) they can quickly digress to discussing old out of date gameing modules or cool new games that they have seen. Nerd just means that you get right into stuff. Video games, anime, comics, fantasy, RPGs, DJing, drum machine tweeking, painting, martial arts, sports, or cars. once you get all hardcore into stats and obscure tidbits of minute info about your chosen hobby its safe to assume you are nerd. Lets hear you roar now. PS. How could i find gamers in my area? I put a meg on the RPG classifieds. so far no luck there.
Saurstalk 01-13-06, 11:46 AM	Years have gone by and I stopped playing for a while, and am now trying to get back into it. My problem is I am new too an area. My wife and I moved to a small island two years ago ( 5000 people). I have purchased the core books for the 3.5 version but have no-one to play with. I don't know many people on my island and the people that i do know are not the gaming type. PS. How could i find gamers in my area? I put a meg on the RPG classifieds. so far no luck there. While I live in the U.S., I have a similar predictament where gamers in my town of 20,000 are pretty much nonexistent. I tried for some time to post at the local bookstore to little avail. (I say little because I got two responses .... but in "interviewing" the people, I opted not to game with them. .....Long story.) In any event, I went to these boards and posted for a small mature and dedicated group to do an internet campaign (and when feasible, IM). That was two years ago, and while we have had some lulls, the game is still going strong ... albeit a tad slower than a normal table top game. (Pacing is a tough issue for the internet.) In the end, if you can get two people (somewhere) to commit to posting at least once a day, and preferably two or three times, and you structure a campaign so that it doesn't die for moving too slowly, the internet is a great medium. (I love being able to post slowly updated maps, have time to consider appropriate BBEG responses in between posts, and slowly structure the campaign around the PCs actions instead of having it all mapped out in advance. :D ...I just wish it'd move a bit faster. :( (This is a cautionary note. I started out with four people and two just lost interest.) (Moreover, I'd offer to run a campaign for you, but at this point in my life and career, my plate is pretty darn full!)
Atirakis 09-02-06, 06:01 PM	I would say I am a bit embarrassed about it, just as I am a bit embarrassed about liking porn. But I am not ashamed. D&D is akin to liking PORN? :uh-huh: :looloo: I am not ashamed of playing D&D nor is anyone I play with.
aotrscommander 09-02-06, 07:17 PM	Ashamed? Never! I am neither ashamed of roleplaying, wargaming, watching Pokemon, W.i.t.c.h or Winx Club, playing Pokemon, reading Harry Potter, the Beano or X-Men or any of the other things that most 'normal' people of my age aren't supposed to do, nor am I reticent about it! I am proud of my hobbies, all of them, and I show no hestiation in taking about them! If you know me, you will know my hobbies, because there IS no me outside my hobbies! And woe betide anyone who slags off any of them off! Of course, it helps that I place absolutely zero value on other people's opinions of me at all. I shall defend my right to spend my time as I choose, and the social traditions of (any) human society can go be disembowled! Slowly, with a blunt knife! Yes, that was rather vitriolic, (and most definatly not directed at anyone here), but people looking down on my hobby is a form of patronisation and I WILL NOT be patronised by anyone or anything. Ever. So there. Okay, having got that off my chest, I'll be quiet now.
KurenaiYami 09-02-06, 07:23 PM	I'm taking a poll-- but a little background info first. I decided to upgrade to the 3.5 core books (finally!) but what with a second mortgage and a second dog obtained recently, I find my spare money going to trivial things like, oh, food and toilet paper. So, to finance the new books, I started a little store at (Link Removed) with products inspired by these boards and the DM's here. Just to be clear, I am in NOT advertising for or in any way promoting the store here. This is just background to my question. You see, I mentioned what I was doing to a friend of mine, and he said it'd never work. I explained to him why I thought it would. He ultimately said "People will never buy shirts and mugs about D&D, much less wear them around. It's kinda embarassing, ya know?" I asked if he was ashamed of playing D&D. He hemmed and hawed a bit, but then admitted that he was, a little. Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks. Heh, I don't actually know, to tell you the truth. Some people are just flat out idiots. If I don't know the person very well (like coworkers in different departments or people I talk to in class but don't really know), then I won't speak of D&D because there's always that one idiot that will laugh, call me a loser, run around and tell everybody else in that area about me playing D&D. Yes, this has happened before, and the gentlemen quit shortly after. Around people I know or at least *think* I know, I'm fairly open about it. The first time I bring it up, I feel it's good to make a point of it and take my lucky d20 out of my pocket and show it to them. The majority of my friends are cool with D&D, or play it themselves. This is likely why they are my friends. Some people I thought I knew stopped talking to me after they learned I played. This is the sort of thing I wish to avoid, but, I guess it's a good test to see who really cares about you, huh?
joandarc 09-02-06, 07:37 PM	i am not ashamed of anything in my life. in fact, i openly tell people that i like anime, card games, d&d, collecting care-bears, spongebob squarepants, thats so raven, various other disney/nickelodian shows, miniature games, video games, horror movies (particularly old ones), porn, techno music, and sleeping. i am a 16 year old boy.
UncleHerbie 09-02-06, 08:19 PM	I'm taking a poll-- but a little background info first. I decided to upgrade to the 3.5 core books (finally!) but what with a second mortgage and a second dog obtained recently, I find my spare money going to trivial things like, oh, food and toilet paper. So, to finance the new books, I started a little store at (Link Removed) with products inspired by these boards and the DM's here. Just to be clear, I am in NOT advertising for or in any way promoting the store here. This is just background to my question. You see, I mentioned what I was doing to a friend of mine, and he said it'd never work. I explained to him why I thought it would. He ultimately said "People will never buy shirts and mugs about D&D, much less wear them around. It's kinda embarassing, ya know?" I asked if he was ashamed of playing D&D. He hemmed and hawed a bit, but then admitted that he was, a little. Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks. Ashamed? Yes, I am ashamed very much by my hobby. I would never advertise it.
DeSkyggeKriger 09-03-06, 12:47 AM	While I don't run around screaming "Hey everybody! I play D&D!", I do inform all new girlfriends (usually around the second date or so) that yes, I do in fact play D&D. They usually just laugh or roll their eyes, but never seem to care. In fact, my current girl agreed to join in on a game just so she can "figure out what the hell I'm always talking about" (I've been playing a lot more recently). And I ordered the camauflage shirt that has "Make your spot check" on it, and the D&D logo on the back :)
Elrabin 09-03-06, 01:28 AM	DnD is like video games in that it does most certainly have a stigma attached. I am a geek, through and through, but a rather well-adjusted one in the sense that I make friends pretty easily and people accept my geekiness in stride and even enjoy my occassional detailed look into history or psychology or whatever. So they can tell I'm a geek, but the minute I mention DnD, the reaction is almost always bad. It's not always REALLY bad, but it's never been positive. Even the people I've eventually gotten to play recoiled when they first heard the name "Dungeons and Dragons" pass my lips. They were all into the idea of a fantasy game where you get to pretend to be a powerful wizard or warrior killing monsters, but as soon as I said DnD, they had a noticable change of expression resembling physical disgust. It's now been my experience that if you can possibly avoid it, you should never ever mention DnD in mixed company. If you intend to talk about DnD at some point, bring it up very gently without saying the name until you've already got them converted. Video games are usually the same way. Now no one cares if you play GTA or Madden, but if you start talking about Final Fantasy or Warcraft, or god forbid, Dungeons and Dragons Online, they will immediately look down on you. Now you can not care what people think, and you can say "I'm not ashamed and the only reason you look down on it is cause you don't know what you're talking about!" but the fact remains that you damage your image in other people's eyes when you say that you enjoy fantasy gaming of any kind unless they are also fantasy gamers.
CYMRO 09-03-06, 04:31 AM	Ashamed? Yes, I am ashamed very much by my hobby. I would never advertise it. I place my D&D hobby prominently on my resume, right before my interest in cricket.
Fonetik 09-03-06, 10:12 AM	are u using big words to improve ur image, or do you usually talk like that O_O Yes. Only tossers use whole words, capitals and punctuation.
Soulman1990 09-03-06, 11:24 AM	I'm not gonna go out and shake people and bellow that I indeed play DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS, I AM A MAN! Anyways, I am not ashamed by my hobby. If anyone asks me if i play DnD I say "Yeah". If they call me a nerd, geek, dork, weirdo, etc. That is there problem. I also play serious video games so I am clearlly already labled as a geek anyways. =D
DeSkyggeKriger 09-04-06, 02:07 AM	D&D is akin to liking PORN? :uh-huh: :looloo: I am not ashamed of playing D&D nor is anyone I play with. I'll have to throw in that I'm as willing to admit that I love porn as I am to admit being a gamer. In other words, people get over it.
DmMagnus 09-04-06, 05:28 PM	I am Ashamed of saying that I am A bit ashamed of playing DnD. I dont know about other countrys but In norway DnD has a kinda geeky reputation. When I started playing a year ago me and my friend never mentioned to our other friends what we were doing late thuesday (did i spell that right?) nights.. But it is diffrent now. I know most of my friends know that I am playing DnD and they dont care, they understand that I think it is funny.. But I never tell girls about it, because they are the once that thinks RPG is geeky (or so I think). This sucks since I often have to come up with some wierd excuse why I cant hang out with them. It is a bit wierd that I always wisit my grandparents at wendesday 6 - 10! :P But latley I have stopped hiding my hobby. I am a Role player! Deal with it or go to hell! If your friends wont hang out with you or think you are a "geek" because of your hobbys (same if it is gaming or baseball) they are no good friends! I hope no one stop roleplaying because of they are beeing ashamed! So someone have dug up this Ol`thread.. Wierd to see what I once wrote. Feels like I`ve lived for a lifetime but it has only been a year... Ashamed of DnD? Wow.. My self-confidence have become quite much better in one year.. Probably growing up or something. I do not advertise the fact that I play D&D, but I dont advertise the fact that I snowboard either. But if people ask I honestly tell èm that "Yes I play D&D". Havn`t been a problem so far. Took me a while to see this but, You should never be ashamed of what you do, unless what you do is hurting Gals and children.
Inigo_Montoya 09-04-06, 05:37 PM	Do other people feel ashamed? Do other folks out there try to keep their hobby quiet, lest friends and co-workers find out? Does D&D still have such a strong "geek" stigma attached? Any thoughts, insights, stories, testimonials, etc. would be enlightening and appreciated. Thanks.I came out of the closet recently about my gaming habits at work, and discovered another guy that plays as well and we are good buddies. I also met my best friend through gaming. Loud and Proud is my motto now.
Atirakis 09-04-06, 05:38 PM	:clap: :clap: :clap:
Necrosis 09-04-06, 06:06 PM	a touch embrassed about DnD yes-but its a hangover habit form been a teenagger, now its is social gmaing get togeather like poker, As to religion Dnd and harry potter, I've had a much to liberal conservtive up bringing, one of my parents is an arch deacon (between a priest and a bishop) in the anglicaion church (aka Episcopalian in the USA). My parents consider harry potter a classical tale of good vs evil, how could any church consider them evil? Magic wizards and witchs are plot devices? They viewed DnD as the same i.e. 'Its a game!'.
Dark Brandon 09-04-06, 06:14 PM	Yes. I am. I wish I could enjoy things like sports or NASCAR...but I can't. I needs me some dice, a fantasy realm, and lots of junkfood. God...i wish I could quit...but there's just too much awesome in RPing.
Yami 09-05-06, 10:46 AM	I'm not at all (though there are, of course, appropriate and inappropriate times to discuss such things, as with most things in life.). But my family is. My mother has gamed herself, and enjoys it, but is too embarrassed to admit it in front of friends and family. She wants my brother and I to hide it from family and friends as well. I have family members of the "D&D and Harry Potter lead to devil worship!" crowd, but my attitude is "I'm not so insecure in my spirituality that a story or a imaginary game are going to destroy my faith and soul." I'm a pretty conservative Christian gal, but I'm glad I don't live at home anymore, so I can usually ignore the whole "we don't understand it, so it must be bad," mindset many in my extended family have. :)
oxybe 09-05-06, 11:31 AM	sports or NASCAR? nah. i never saw much appeal towards a bunch of guys chasing after balls, or watching cars go in circles real fast. i do keep track of hockey scores, but i just find some strange facination with cheering on the Montreal Canadians... i just love that team for some strange reason. like DmMagnus, i find it was ages ago... i also like to think i am a bit more mature since then, though my change of environment might have influenced that (from a more relaxed call center to an actual office). i still ain't ashamed for playing D&D, heck i wouldn't have something to do every sunday afternoon if i did, and i never would have met my current group otherwise! if anyone asks, yeah i'll admit it. it's no worse or better hobby then model train collecting, playing Magic the Gathering, PC modding, white water rafting or making pottery. it's just a hobby like any other: a bunch of friends sitting around a table, rolling dice, chatting & making really lame jokes.