Assassin Discussion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin Discussion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DungeonMaster_35
10-19-05, 04:24 PM I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome.
NiQil
10-19-05, 04:34 PM I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome.

Unless the character is actually performing an assassination of some kind, death attack is rather useless in normal combat. Having to do nothing but watch someone for three rounds (during which time either your party is doing your work for you or they are getting owned without you), and then make an attack that *might kill someone if they fail their save is generally not the best way to go about combat. That three rounds of study time is the equalizer. Especially if the person they are studying happens to get killed....then they have to start all over again with someone else. IMO, the assassin would be better off wading into combat looking for ways to apply it's sneak attack...or even spending a round coating a weapon with some poison to use in battle. And that makes them not much different than rogues. Assassins do have some nice abilities, but they are highly limited in their usefulness in most situations. YMMV
prettyripples
10-19-05, 04:35 PM I don't think you were wrong. Anything, class or otherwise, that you only make available to NPCs is going to cause resentment - and if it's that unbalanced, why would you let your NPC use it?

In terms of rogue/assassin, it's obvious that this was always intended to be a common route into assassin. The designers thought of it beforehand.

Finally, death attack: if it makes you better, change it to paralysis only - but I'd warn that being paralysed for a few rounds is a death sentence anyway in the middle of a fight.

Really, though, it's not that imbalanced. After all, it's only Save-or-Die, and by the time you're an Assassin there are spells that will do that kind of thing - without that annoying "Study Period", which basically means you have to have surprise (and free time beforehand, too - so your whole party has to be successfully hiding).
revnk
10-19-05, 05:50 PM That's really your call. You have the right, as DM, to not allow any prestige class, although it's a little late for that now. At this point, let him play it, but if he ever generates another character and you've decided the assassin is more of an NPC-nemesis type thing, tell him that up front before he starts sinking skill-buys and feats into an assassin route again. (And just be honest: if you've decided assassins don't work, tell him it was a one-off experiment that failed.)

The main advice, though, is: examine the prestige class before you allow it.

Good luck!
Karota
10-19-05, 10:24 PM I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome.

All Presitge classes are allowed for PC´s; if they are at DMG it is because players should have not known of them until later in the game; actually, every player know of them, but DMs are the ones to allow them; all generic classes should be allowed for everyone at any time, but prestige ones should not.

assassin is great in spionage, but boring at typical games, unless he uses his poisoned weapons (and even so, only against very powerful and ressistant enemies, because a kobold would die before the poison affects him).
Vaelan
10-20-05, 02:21 AM The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide.
Prestige Classes are in the DMG because they're highly optional, not because they're only for NPCs.
weasel fierce
10-20-05, 02:23 AM Assasin has always been a pretty poor idea for a class, IMO
allenchan
10-20-05, 02:26 AM Assassin is a weak class. Being a straight Rogue would be better in the long run, and call yourself an assassin without the capital A.
Kobold Stew
10-20-05, 11:02 AM Following up on what NiQuil said,

not only do you need to stand and watch for three rounds, but you also need to make concentration checks each round. If you fail, the three rounds start over. Functionally, Death attack will never affect combat. It can have strategic uses, but, in answer to your question, no, you did not make a mistake.

KS
malchor7
10-20-05, 01:44 PM I'm pretty sure the death attack also requires the target to 1) be unaware of your presence of 2) not see you as an enemy. Also, it has to be a MELEE attack -- you can't snipe people, which (in the context of what an assassin actually does) seems a little, well, odd.

That said, the death attack seems to be pretty useless in a combat situation. Unless you spend the whole time hiding in the shadows only to spring out at someone and stab 'im to death.

The poison use thing, though: well, that can get pretty deadly, pretty fast.

m
Gedrin
10-20-05, 02:36 PM In all honesty, I've always found professional assassins pretty useless as PC foes, unless they're much lower level. Considering the ease a maxed stealth assassin of equal level could sneak up on any but the most paranoid PC's to CdG/Sneak/Death Attack/Poison, it seems a bit cheesey to use them as actual foes.
niesl
10-20-05, 03:54 PM Deathattack isn't that powerfull, but it's also about roleplaying it. Using deathattacks on every random enemy seems pretty stupid to me...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DungeonMaster_35 10-19-05, 04:24 PM	I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome.
NiQil 10-19-05, 04:34 PM	I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome. Unless the character is actually performing an assassination of some kind, death attack is rather useless in normal combat. Having to do nothing but watch someone for three rounds (during which time either your party is doing your work for you or they are getting owned without you), and then make an attack that *might kill someone if they fail their save is generally not the best way to go about combat. That three rounds of study time is the equalizer. Especially if the person they are studying happens to get killed....then they have to start all over again with someone else. IMO, the assassin would be better off wading into combat looking for ways to apply it's sneak attack...or even spending a round coating a weapon with some poison to use in battle. And that makes them not much different than rogues. Assassins do have some nice abilities, but they are highly limited in their usefulness in most situations. YMMV
prettyripples 10-19-05, 04:35 PM	I don't think you were wrong. Anything, class or otherwise, that you only make available to NPCs is going to cause resentment - and if it's that unbalanced, why would you let your NPC use it? In terms of rogue/assassin, it's obvious that this was always intended to be a common route into assassin. The designers thought of it beforehand. Finally, death attack: if it makes you better, change it to paralysis only - but I'd warn that being paralysed for a few rounds is a death sentence anyway in the middle of a fight. Really, though, it's not that imbalanced. After all, it's only Save-or-Die, and by the time you're an Assassin there are spells that will do that kind of thing - without that annoying "Study Period", which basically means you have to have surprise (and free time beforehand, too - so your whole party has to be successfully hiding).
revnk 10-19-05, 05:50 PM	That's really your call. You have the right, as DM, to not allow any prestige class, although it's a little late for that now. At this point, let him play it, but if he ever generates another character and you've decided the assassin is more of an NPC-nemesis type thing, tell him that up front before he starts sinking skill-buys and feats into an assassin route again. (And just be honest: if you've decided assassins don't work, tell him it was a one-off experiment that failed.) The main advice, though, is: examine the prestige class before you allow it. Good luck!
Karota 10-19-05, 10:24 PM	I let one of my PCs play a rogue/assassin. Do you think I was wrong in letting him do this? I think I was. The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The assassin is a powerful prestige class with its death attack ability. Any views on this matter would be welcome. All Presitge classes are allowed for PC´s; if they are at DMG it is because players should have not known of them until later in the game; actually, every player know of them, but DMs are the ones to allow them; all generic classes should be allowed for everyone at any time, but prestige ones should not. assassin is great in spionage, but boring at typical games, unless he uses his poisoned weapons (and even so, only against very powerful and ressistant enemies, because a kobold would die before the poison affects him).
Vaelan 10-20-05, 02:21 AM	The assassin prestige class, I believe, is for NPCs and enemies of the PCs, that's why it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. Prestige Classes are in the DMG because they're highly optional, not because they're only for NPCs.
weasel fierce 10-20-05, 02:23 AM	Assasin has always been a pretty poor idea for a class, IMO
allenchan 10-20-05, 02:26 AM	Assassin is a weak class. Being a straight Rogue would be better in the long run, and call yourself an assassin without the capital A.
Kobold Stew 10-20-05, 11:02 AM	Following up on what NiQuil said, not only do you need to stand and watch for three rounds, but you also need to make concentration checks each round. If you fail, the three rounds start over. Functionally, Death attack will never affect combat. It can have strategic uses, but, in answer to your question, no, you did not make a mistake. KS
malchor7 10-20-05, 01:44 PM	I'm pretty sure the death attack also requires the target to 1) be unaware of your presence of 2) not see you as an enemy. Also, it has to be a MELEE attack -- you can't snipe people, which (in the context of what an assassin actually does) seems a little, well, odd. That said, the death attack seems to be pretty useless in a combat situation. Unless you spend the whole time hiding in the shadows only to spring out at someone and stab 'im to death. The poison use thing, though: well, that can get pretty deadly, pretty fast. m
Gedrin 10-20-05, 02:36 PM	In all honesty, I've always found professional assassins pretty useless as PC foes, unless they're much lower level. Considering the ease a maxed stealth assassin of equal level could sneak up on any but the most paranoid PC's to CdG/Sneak/Death Attack/Poison, it seems a bit cheesey to use them as actual foes.
niesl 10-20-05, 03:54 PM	Deathattack isn't that powerfull, but it's also about roleplaying it. Using deathattacks on every random enemy seems pretty stupid to me...