Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Platinumwarlock 11-20-03, 10:06 AM	I was posting this over on Monte Cook's boards, and decided to bring it here to see if anyone here had any input. In my upcoming Ravenloft game, I'm planning on running a mystery-form adventure, dealing with "animal-like" killings in a small town. The PCs will be hired by the constables of the town to see if they can solve the killings or, more to the point, see why the other two adventuring groups hired haven't been able to solve them. One of the adventuring groups, led by a fellow named Reginald Jordan III, is behind the killings. Using a weapon known as a bagh nakh (a cat's paw), they make the victims look as if they've been mauled by a wild beast, approach the constabulary as 'trouble-shooters', then stop the killings, reaping the rewards. Now, if my PCs grow too suspicious of Jordan and his crew, I've decided to have him order his rogue/assassin, Nathaniel de la Cartier, to take one of them out as a warning. The assassination should go something like this: Cartier waits till the PC in question is in bed, at the boarding house where they're staying. He picks the lock and attempts to Hide/Move Silently through the room. He sets up his Assassin death attack, fires one pistol shot, then escapes through the window, climbing down into the street below. He then returns to the inn, and joins the throng as they gasp and marvel at the dead (or nearly so) person. My biggest problem is this: in doing all this, the PC barely has any chance of surviving. The DMG tells us that a sleeping character essentially is "taking 0" on any Listen checks, which means that de la Cartier would practically have to botch in order for the PC to be woken up in time to confront him. As such, my question--how do you run a realistic assassination of a PC, while still letting them have a half-decent chance for survival? So far, the best idea that's been put forward relies on my one player--a Half-Vistani Diviner, who'll be able to use fortunetelling dice to see the future sometimes. A nice little prophecy for the intended victim might set forward some warning....but will it be enough? What more can I do to help ensure that I don't automatically have one dead PC on my hands?
igronimus 11-20-03, 10:28 AM	A PC gets a listen check at -10 to wake up. I'd give him one at the opening lock stage, and the sneaking in stage. He has a chance to wake up, and may still survive the death attack.
Winsome 11-20-03, 11:11 AM	Unless you're OK with a deliberate fumble from the assasin change the warning. Instead of a kill, go for a painful injury, or a debilitating poison (a few points of Dex perhaps). Leave a note with a self destruct spell to warn the party off. Job done. Alternatively, theive some of their gear and again leave a message indicating that worse can come than mere financial hardship.
Platinumwarlock 11-20-03, 12:20 PM	See, that's the thing--the PCs will be slightly lower level than either group. They'll have to make up for it with their intellects and investigating skills. As such, they won't really have much that the 'evil' group really wants. Thievery isn't really an option, there. Beyond that, why injure when you can kill? An injury can be healed....something more lethal, not so much. I really can't see a reason why Jordan would bother to let the victim live, when he already disregards human life for profit. I'm definitely toying with the idea of letting the PC have a few listen checks, albeit at large penalties....it's seeming like that's the best road to go down.
Otto the Bugbear 11-20-03, 06:00 PM	Depending on the size of the inn, and the amount of people in it, I'd say don't touch the PCs. Instead, kill every living thing larger than a rat that's at the inn, all in one night. Then, either leave a warning for the party, or set them up to be framed. This allows everyone to have those listen checks (appropriate sleeping penalties), but it's likely they'll still fail on all of them. Even if they're not framed, this will serve a secondary purpose too; NPCs will be less willing to help them out, and may even be angry or hostile toward the party. Oft times, common folk know close enough to the truth who is behind an act like this, but are unwilling to stick their own necks out. Cheers Otto :)
Mike the DM 11-20-03, 07:13 PM	Originally posted by Platinumwarlock I really can't see a reason why Jordan would bother to let the victim live, when he already disregards human life for profit. Don't pull your punches. If the players don't post guards during the night...if they don't cast alarm...if they don't so much as pile a stack of empty crockery in front of the door...if they don't prepare appropriately, then give 'em a couple of Listen checks when the assassin enters the room, and let the dice fall where they may.
Platinumwarlock 11-20-03, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Otto the Bugbear Depending on the size of the inn, and the amount of people in it, I'd say don't touch the PCs. Instead, kill every living thing larger than a rat that's at the inn, all in one night. Then, either leave a warning for the party, or set them up to be framed. This allows everyone to have those listen checks (appropriate sleeping penalties), but it's likely they'll still fail on all of them. Even if they're not framed, this will serve a secondary purpose too; NPCs will be less willing to help them out, and may even be angry or hostile toward the party. Oft times, common folk know close enough to the truth who is behind an act like this, but are unwilling to stick their own necks out. While Jordan really doesn't care for people....he's not that bloodthirsty. Plus, I think it would cast equal suspiscion on him if, come morning, the only people alive were the PCs and his group (they're staying in the same inn). That's just a bit much.... MikeDM--I think it's coming to the point where I have to agree with you. I'm thinking that if I follow through on that prophecy bit, that should be enough warning for them to know Something Is Amiss. Any other ideas on how to possibly warn them, without it seeming too cheesy?
Wizard 11-20-03, 08:21 PM	Originally posted by Platinumwarlock MikeDM--I think it's coming to the point where I have to agree with you. I'm thinking that if I follow through on that prophecy bit, that should be enough warning for them to know Something Is Amiss. Any other ideas on how to possibly warn them, without it seeming too cheesy? I think you should have a rash of human killings (maybe 5) near the PC's. If they don't post a guard then, then kill the whole darn party in the name of Darwin.
Lord Stigius 11-20-03, 08:24 PM	Do you have some game time before the assasination is going to happen? If the answer is yes, then let a NPC (likeable one) join the party. He/she will be perceived as one of them, and chosen by the assasin as the victim. Other than that, only the standard Listen checks. But with the assasin's maxed out (I presume) skill and the large penalty for sleeping the PC is unlikely to hear anything. Unless the assasin accidentally stumbles upon a sleeping cat...
twentythree 11-20-03, 09:03 PM	Here's what I think you should do: Have one of the people from the "evil" adventuring group "defect" and join your group. This will both, hopefully, pull the PCs suspicions in the right direction as well as warn them full well of what kind of power they are dealing with. --Brien
SirGog 11-20-03, 09:45 PM	What level are they? If they are 7+, show no mercy as they should cast divination once per week to try to anticipate dangers - like assassination attempts. A divination saying something like: 'A humble abode can become a trap' (substitute 'lavish' for 'humble' if appropriate) is all the warning that they need or deserve. If they are level 6 or lower, then use one of the aforemontioned warning methods. The following magic item would be nice to drop in their room... New Wonderous Item - fireball gemtrap When touched by anyone other than its creator, this item detonates as a fireball spell, destorying itself utterly and dealing 8d6 damage to all those within 20 ft (Ref 14 1/2). Prerequsites: fireball, caster level 8, Craft Wonderous Item. Market Price: 2400gp
Otto the Bugbear 11-20-03, 09:51 PM	Originally posted by Platinumwarlock While Jordan really doesn't care for people....he's not that bloodthirsty. Plus, I think it would cast equal suspiscion on him if, come morning, the only people alive were the PCs and his group (they're staying in the same inn). That's just a bit much.... Okay. I guess I missed the part about him being in the same inn. Now, I'd say the best you can do is try to judge which player will be least upset by losing his character. During the week I play (I DM every other week), I've told the DM that I don't mind losing a character for a good plot reason. On the other hand, one of the other players really likes his character. This helps everything work out well. Allow the two listen checks (picking the lock and sneaking across the room), but that's it. This will certainly tell the rest of the players just how ruthless this guy is and they'd better be on their toes from this point on. I hope all goes well for ya. Cheers Otto :)
Mike the DM 11-20-03, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Platinumwarlock Any other ideas on how to possibly warn them, without it seeming too cheesy? While I think having the PCs find their companion disemboweled in the morning would make a great warning - for the survivors - there is another way... At the last minute the innkeeper forces the PC to change rooms - maybe the PC needs to double up with another party member to allow a dignitary to take the room, or perhaps there's a problem with the fireplace flue backing up smoke into the room, something like that. If the former, the PCs awake to find the dignitary slain in the PCs place - if the latter, the innkeeper complains to the PCs about "breaking the lock in the night" to access the room and tearing up the bedding (and s/he expects the PCs to pay for the damage, BTW!). If you want a fight between the PCs and the assassin (I know I would...), turn it around slightly and have one of the other PCs double up with the intended victim - now you've got twice as many Listen checks for the assassin to get past. (Of course, if s/he succeeds, you've created the opportunity for two PKs instead of one...). I hope this helps.
Ankheg 11-20-03, 10:04 PM	Just kill the one that is tubborn enough not to bunk in one or two rooms. Either that or kill the one you don't like most.
Grand_Commander13 11-20-03, 10:14 PM	You need to throw your PCs signs that danger is coming their way. Have a lone adventurer (or a pair) come into town, hot on the trail of the "killing beast," only to have him/one of them killed in the night by it. A pair would really work better, as the PCs can encounter the survivor at the local bar, drunk and sobbing about how things would have been different if he had only taken his buddy's advice and stood watch that night.
Platinumwarlock 11-21-03, 12:36 AM	Originally posted by SirGog What level are they? If they are 7+, show no mercy as they should cast divination once per week to try to anticipate dangers - like assassination attempts. A divination saying something like: 'A humble abode can become a trap' (substitute 'lavish' for 'humble' if appropriate) is all the warning that they need or deserve. When this occurs, I'm looking for the PCs to be around 4th level. I realize that this is less than both the 'good' and 'evil' parties (members of those average around level 7), but I want the players to rely more on their wits than game stats in order to succeed in this. However, while their levels may be lower, they will have a distinct advantage in the fact that one of the PCs will be the aforementioned Half-Vistani Diviner, with access to fortunetelling dice. A divination, though those, would do nicely. While divining spells do work enigmatically in Ravenloft, this situation may superscede those rules. I'm not sure about a true "fight" between the PC and the assassin. de la Cartier isn't that strong in a stand up fight (Str 9), and would probably be even-matched with one of the more martial PCs. I think that if it came down to a one-on-one fight, de la Cartier would either be killed or captured (most likely captured....I don't want to just kill him off needlessly). That said, I think I might use the concept of having the PC move rooms for a night. That would set Jordan and de la Cartier's plans back one night, and give them time to wonder why the lock had been picked on the room that one of them was supposed to be in.
Xavim 11-21-03, 04:41 AM	Do you have a wizard in the group? Does the wizard have a familiar? If the answer to this is yes. Have the familiar save the party. It will actually make the party feel like the little critter is worth something. The PC can be sleeping but the familiar wakes in the middle of the night maybe to go get some cheese or something(I know I would!). On the way back, the familiar spots the assassin sneaking about a PCs room. Have the player of the mage role-playing the familiar. The familiar can empathically notify the wizard who then can raise hell. For an even better hook, have the familiar find out something pivotal to the plot. Like the assassin was talking in hushed tones to someone else who was staying at the inn and then followed the person to the PCs room. Nothing like having a pet save the party's life. Plus it'll give the wizard PC something really interesting to Roleplay.
ChaoticGod 11-21-03, 07:23 AM	This is a Ravenloft game right? Death, Fear and Horror are what it is all about. As Mike said don't pull your punches. Have your assassin watch the PCs and note anyone who sleeps alone. I recommend a different choice of weapon. A flintlock (I assume)pistol will make alot of noise and will cover the assassin in the smell of black powder. A bladed weapon through the eyesocket will quietly cause instant death and then the assassin can use the cat's paw to make a grisly scene of the room before making his escape. When the body is discovered in the morning I think the message will be loud and clear and the PCs will take defensive measures from then on. Be kind to the player making a new character. He/She really didn't do anything too foolish and helped you teach an object lesson to the entire party.
Platinumwarlock 11-21-03, 08:31 AM	Originally posted by ChaoticGod This is a Ravenloft game right? Death, Fear and Horror are what it is all about. As Mike said don't pull your punches. Have your assassin watch the PCs and note anyone who sleeps alone. I recommend a different choice of weapon. A flintlock (I assume)pistol will make alot of noise and will cover the assassin in the smell of black powder. A bladed weapon through the eyesocket will quietly cause instant death and then the assassin can use the cat's paw to make a grisly scene of the room before making his escape. When the body is discovered in the morning I think the message will be loud and clear and the PCs will take defensive measures from then on. Be kind to the player making a new character. He/She really didn't do anything too foolish and helped you teach an object lesson to the entire party. I like the way you think. :D That said, the choice of weapon is a purposeful one. Nathaniel de la Cartier, while witty and a skilled rogue, is not very wise. He's essentially just a flunky and has a tendency to enjoy his job a bit too much. As such, if Jordan tells him "go kill Jerry Brown, the bard," he's not going to think it through and do the most brilliant maneuver on earth--he's going to do what's fastest and takes advantage of his speed and agility. Plus, I wanted the pistol to make noise within the inn, so that the PCs would instantly want to go find out what's going on. I'm none too worried about the smell of blackpowder (though I may use that as a clue, for more astute players), as the whole room would smell like powder after the PC takes it in the head.
ChaoticGod 11-21-03, 01:26 PM	Very well, use the odor as a clue. While the room will smell of black powder the same odor will only be present outside that room in the presence of Cartier. I'm sorry but it's just against my nature to put 'Kick Me' signs on my assassins.
Morka 11-21-03, 02:01 PM	Tell a divination to the half-vistani: "The innkeeper's cat will save your life tonight". The problem is this cat is always in the path of the player you plan to kill. Make this cat very hateful, he always steal the PC food. So the PC is very unhappy to have to keep the cat. But the cat success at his listen check, and awaken the PC at the last moment.
Ack'noth Necrom 11-21-03, 07:15 PM	Well if he kills one of the PCs MORE questions are going to be asked. And he shouldnt want that if he can get the PCs off his back with just a wound. Perhaps as he was coming up the stairs several people saw him (to many to kill in a single night, so if people start dying he can be accused of the murders starting with the PC). Just because hes evil doesnt mean hes stupid. He wont kill someone if he cant get away with it, however if the PC is just wounded an investigation is less likely from NPCs because it doesnt directly effect them. They might think it was just a random mugging.
Taran Alvein 11-21-03, 07:50 PM	You're joking, right? A random mugging? In the middle of the night, in his room at the inn? I could see robbery, but generally, people who stay at inns like that aren't the richest folks. So why go to all the trouble to break into one person's room, shoot him, and not take anything? That might raise a few questions. And while a killing would raise questions, just injuring someone would raise just as many, and since the PC'd still be alive to see it, it'd provide more answers. What's more, the assassin wouldn't really be noticed by NPCs "as he was coming up the stairs", since I assume that since he's going in through the window, he's not going to climb up the stairs, but will instead enter from the roof. And I like the idea of hitting him with a gun. A big dramatic murder can be fun, and the assassin can change clothes really quick to hide most of the smell of powder. Maybe disguise himself as a chimney sweep. I doubt your average peasant'd know the difference between gunpowder and chimney soot if they smelled it. Edit: Wow, that was a stupid mis-spelling.
VanDeBeast 11-21-03, 08:02 PM	You could always deposit a warning in a PC's bed. A horse's head or something with a note telling them to back off or suffer the consequences. It can add to the fear and horror without outright killing a PC who has little chance of defending himself.
manneedshaircut 11-21-03, 08:06 PM	I'm part of the "let them die if they're supid enough not to post a guard" group. It can really be an object lesson in how to stay alive. However, i also agree that the player who dies should be dealt with nicely when making a new character, as he is just an instrument in your object lesson. (edit: good idea, VanDeBeast, movies are always a great place to look for ideas;) )
Platinumwarlock 11-21-03, 11:05 PM	I appreciate the thought, but I don't think a warning is dramatic enough by any means. Even if I went with something like the horse-head example, it would amount to something like this: Bob the Ranger--Hey, guys. I woke up and found this in my bed. Maybe we should be a bit careful? Joe the Wizard--Yeah, probably. (Continue with plans, as earlier) It doesn't change enough....it doesn't provide a tangible enough threat, because they still have too much time to act. If I kill a PC, however.... Bob the Ranger--*gurgle* Joe the Wizard--Holy crap...guys, we need to finish this now! Someone's onto us, and we really need to get moving, or we're going to be next. And to answer an earlier comment--he is evil, and he's not that bright. If Jordan asks him to kill someone, he's going to do it the best way he knows how, which may not necessarily be the best way considering the situation. Yes, a firearm at night indoors isn't that brilliant of an idea--but de la Cartier knows how to use a pistol pretty well, and he'd think it works. Perhaps that's a "kick me" sign, but it's one that fits....it makes sense in terms of de la Cartier's character. [
Ankheg 11-23-03, 04:16 PM	A funny thought: The PCs are for some reason wilderness people and hate sleeping inside and therefor don't sleep in the inn and sleep in an incredibly nice Druid's grove nearby.
Ankheg 11-23-03, 04:16 PM	heh heh
DarkStevenson 11-23-03, 05:46 PM	Just a parenthesis but doesn't it say in the DMG that the assassin's death attack can only be made with a melee weapon? so I guess you really can't use a pistol Also won't trying to pick a lock make noise? therefore the assassin will be detected (probably)
Platinumwarlock 11-24-03, 09:55 AM	It's been my long-standing rule that the Assassin's Death Attack works just like a sneak attack, except with the added 3 rounds of study. As such, any ranged weapon can be used, if within 30 feet. Beyond that, a sleeping opponent is considered 'helpless'. As such, it would be a coup de grace, which is able to be done with a ranged weapon (if adjacent to the victim, which Cartier will surely be).
Will Brandiman 11-24-03, 10:26 AM	Well this game sounds like there is a fair bit of character development and role-play. If so, the PC's will surely have made some friends and contacts in the town since their arrival. Kill one of them instead of a PC. Then pass a note to the PC's saying that another death will occur the next night. If they don't take the appropriate precautions then, well frankly they deserve to die. I would be very reluctant to just kill a PC with little or no chance for them to avoid it, especially when they haven't really done anything wrong and are lower level than their opponents. You could even have the assassin take out another of their friends whilst the PC's are cowering in their rooms assuming that the killer is coming for them. Then, if they try to protect their friends, the assassin can make a move on one of the PC's instead. Oh, and lose the pistol. The assassin may not be the smartest guy in town but you have to be a complete idiot to kill someone in a public place with a weapon that is a) easily identifiable and b) bloody noisy!
The Morninglord 11-24-03, 11:07 AM	Well, whether you should just kill off a PC or give them a warning first depends on how you have played earlier. I don't know for how long you have been playing this campaign, but if the PCs haven't had any reason to put up a guard before, even in Ravenloft, there is no reason they would expect that it would be neccessary now.
StormKnight 11-24-03, 02:01 PM	So, the PCs are here tracking down a wild and dangerous animal which has been, presumably attacking and killing people who are on their own outside...why the heck would they be taking security precautions? Do they have any reason at all to think it might sneak into a crowded inn and attack them in their sleep? Do you really want your PCs so paranoid that every going to sleep for the night is preceeded by half an hour of security precautions? Have you ever noticed how much your nice, modern, carefully built house creaks when somebody walks around? Consider an old style, hand-built wooden inn. The floors going to make a lot of creaking noise. While some people sleep like logs, others get woken up by the slightest noise. Give your PC a few chances...lock getting picked, footsteps, click of the flintlock being sparked. Or make one roll with a cumulative bonus for the multiple chances. The PC doesn't have to wake up in time to do anything other than have the vaguest notion that something is going on and make the attack not an "auto-kill" sitaution. The PC may take lots of damage and be bleeding to death, but the other PCs should be awake in time to heal him before he dies. Its not like the assassin will want to stay around for a second shot with the noise the first one will make.
Rian Lightblade 11-24-03, 06:35 PM	I my opinion a DM should never just kill off a PC for the sake of a story; it's a really bad call that may create animosity among the group. Despite the control of the game world you have as a DM you should never start killing off PC's because it suits you. How will that make the other players feel when the DM can just kills off PCs just for the sake of a story twist. It would totally **** me off if I were the player whose PC got the preverbal knife in the back and I'd probably leave your group. I'm speaking from experience. I've seen it happen before and it broke an old group of mine apart for two years. If you clear it with the Player first that's a different matter, although my players would never allow it. They may even have a few suggestions that might help make it more interesting and/or effective. As many other others here have suggested the best method is to kill off an NPC that's near and dear to the character. This method is really the best way to solve your problem in my opinion..
Platinumwarlock 11-24-03, 09:14 PM	Okay, firstly, the majority of my players know that not setting precautions will end up with them being captured or killed. When I ran Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, they were captured twice. Last year, in a homebrew game, they were captured once. They're learning from their mistakes. WillB--as I mentioned, the pistol is intentional. While noisy, it's a common weapon in Ravenloft, so seeing people with one won't automatically incriminate them. Also, it's not like the assassination will be in a public square. It'll be in a private inn room, after closing time, in the middle of the night. Very few people about. Plus, the noise is intentional--I want to wake up the other PCs, so that they'll investigate. Stormy--Yes, I think you're right, in the sense that Listen checks are in order. As I've already said several times, I'm not going to "scare off" the PCs with a warning. It seems cheesy to me, lackluster overall, and isn't fitting with Jordan's mindset. That said, I don't think I'm just arbitrarily saying "okay, Bob, your fighter's dead". They'll have some listen checks, as well as any precautions that they make, to help them survive, not to mention any prophecy that I use. If a character death is so upsetting to someone that it sunders a friendship, I would seriously question gaming with that person or even being friends with them in the first place. That said, I have chosen what I'm going to do. If you disagree with my decision as a DM, don't clog the thread telling me "you're wrong". If you have input for me on how to run this sort of odd scenario, it's much appreciated. However, telling me that I just "shouldn't" do something like this wastes both of our time.
twentythree 11-25-03, 12:03 AM	Well, if you are going through with this, I would recommend, as was earlier stated, you should force the PC in question to room with 1 or more of his party members. Either his room si infested with rats, or it is a crime scene of something else, or some dignitary has taken one of the party's rooms. Just something that will force the doubling or tripling up to maximize listen checks. Stay true to the dice rolls, if he survives he survives, if he dies he dies. Don't let him die just because that is the way you planned for it. Also make sure to think ahead of time what this assassin will do if he is caught by one or more of the PCs waking up. Will he run or will he stay and fight? Will he have his face covered, or be easily idenitfiable? That's all I got for now, Hope it helped. --Brien
Platinumwarlock 11-25-03, 12:08 AM	Yes, thank you. That does help...such is the kind of input I was hoping for.
Fedaykin 11-25-03, 07:28 AM	You could instead have the assassin hire a commoner to shot at the PC while their eating at the inn, PC's capture commoner, commoner says he was hired by PC himself. Any smart assassin should have some disguise skills, and could disguise himself as almost anybody
quetzyl 11-25-03, 08:28 AM	I thoroughly support the assassination, it sounds well thought out and has good reasons behind it. I have done similar things myself, and I have one warning; if you do this, be prepared to be accepting of character paranoia from now on. I have run a game in which the entire party routinely firetrapped inn doors and windows, left illusions in their beds while sleeping underneath them, etc. That kind of thing can be fun, but it does bite into the heroic feel of the game, and encourages extreme caution in other circs which can cut into the overall enjoyment of the game. Still, this is Ravenloft... Cheers, quetzyl