Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sameil 10-30-06, 11:36 PM	I recently took over a campaign with an Assassin. The player studdied for his three rounds and proceeded to make his death attack, which is where the troubles come in. While the dm's guide says nothing about having the player roll to see if his attack succeeds or fails. I had him roll, under protest, he did so and I said I would see what yall had to say about it. I personnally think its far two powerful, even though it does take 3rounds to succeed. But I don't want my personal prejudices to interfere with my impartiality =0) (even if having a prejudice is not conducive to being impartial). I just figured it would always beconsidered an attack with a rolling counterpart =0)
MareltEkiran 10-30-06, 11:46 PM	After the study, you attempt the death attack. First of all, you must make a sneak attack. That means that you must hit with an attack in which the target is denied it's dexterity bonus (the usual prerequisites for the rogue ability). If that attack hits, then the target makes a fortitude save against a DC of 10+Assassin class level+INTmod or suffer instant death. So what exactly do you mean with "says nothing about rolls"?
TheWerg 10-30-06, 11:51 PM	If anything, the Death Attack is underpowered. With the high saves found in most high CR monsters and NPCs, as well as the many "undiscernible anatomies" found at higher levels, an assassin can often be worthless in combat. Combine that with the low-to-mid 20s DC, the death attack is fairly likely to fail, in my experience.
Kradlo 10-31-06, 12:06 AM	Yes, he has to make a successful sneak attack. That means the opponent is denied his Dex bonus to AC (whether he has a Dex bonus or not), or is flanked. A smart assassin may have an equally cunning partner.
Heahengel 10-31-06, 02:31 AM	The way I read it, the player was trying to argue that the attack auto hits. If he wants to be annoying about this absurd claim, point out the line that he has to make a sneak attack that 'successfully deals damage.' You need to hit to do that (and it doesn't auto sneak attack either, as people have said). I hope I'm wrong that he is arguing this though. That is pretty absurd.
LegacyKing 10-31-06, 02:42 AM	A resounding "YES", the player of the assassin NEEDS to make an attack roll to Hit, AND he must be able to do a SNEAK ATTACK which MUST do damage to get the DEATH ATTACK effect. Steps to use the Assassin Death Attack: Study the opponent for three (3) rounds (Unobserved if you take the DMG literally) You must make a Successful Sneak Attack in the Next three (3) rounds or begin the process all over again. You must succeed (hit with an attack roll) with a sneak attack Sneak Attack must inflict damage Chosen Death or Paralysis effect happens if the creature/victim fails the Fortitude Save (DC = Assassin Level + 10 + INT Bonus) If the creature fails the death effect it dies (HP automatically become -10 per the rules) If the creature fails the paralysis then it's paralyzed for the duration listed. And Yes, according to Customer Service the Assassin's Death Attack is a TRUE Death Attack, resulting in immediate death and requiring either a True Ressurection or Miracle to bring the victim back to life (No Reincarnation, Revivify or Raise Dead). Hope that helps. I find it hard to believe a player thought his death attack was an auto/sure fire thing...
RobbyPants 10-31-06, 09:39 AM	The way I read it, the player was trying to argue that the attack auto hits. If he wants to be annoying about this absurd claim, point out the line that he has to make a sneak attack that 'successfully deals damage.' You need to hit to do that (and it doesn't auto sneak attack either, as people have said). I hope I'm wrong that he is arguing this though. That is pretty absurd. The only attacks that auto-hit are coup de graces. Death Attack does not qualify as a CDG (assuming the target's not helpless).
Sameil 10-31-06, 12:56 PM	K, Thanks yall =0)
White_Wizard 10-31-06, 02:17 PM	I recently took over a campaign with an Assassin. The player studdied for his three rounds and proceeded to make his death attack, which is where the troubles come in. While the dm's guide says nothing about having the player roll to see if his attack succeeds or fails. I had him roll, under protest, he did so and I said I would see what yall had to say about it. I personnally think its far two powerful, even though it does take 3rounds to succeed. But I don't want my personal prejudices to interfere with my impartiality =0) (even if having a prejudice is not conducive to being impartial). I just figured it would always beconsidered an attack with a rolling counterpart =0) 1) it is an attack action, so it requires an attack roll as normal for the weapon used. Protesting is useless: the game works this way. No attack roll, no attack at all. Creatures don't just die because you looked intently at them for 18 seconds. 2) the death attack works only if the target creature does not perceive the assassin as an enemy while he studies his target (the target believes the assassin is an ally, a friend or a mere bystander or otherwise does not perceive him/her as a threat in any way) OR the assassin is out of target's sight/perception range while he is studing the target. In other words the target must be unaware of the threat posed by the assassin, either being unaware of the assassin's true nature or being unaware of the assassin at all. 3) the death attack does not work against targets immune to critical hits or against targets that do not possess a distinguishable anatomy. Add to that that there's always a Fortitude ST: if the creature wins it, then the death attack fails. Besides it can always miss the target's AC and it has to deal at least 1 point of damage (so that's where DR come in handy ;) ) to work properly. 4) knowing this I don't think it's too powerful: there is a lot of restrainment to it's effectiveness.
TwistedPuppy 10-31-06, 02:59 PM	If you're an assassin making a death attack, one of your best friends is the wizard (or rogue with a wand/scroll and high Use Magic Device) who hits your target with Ennervation just before your attack...