Assistance pricing an item [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assistance pricing an item [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jeffv
02-01-08, 12:21 AM Greetings-

I've been DMing for some time, but to this point my players have been content to purchase items from the books, or items from the books with very minor variations that are easy to price out. I now have a player who wants a custom-ish item which I'm willing to allow him to have in some form, but I'm unsure exactly how to implement it or what the price for such an item would be.

A bit of background: The character is a truenamer with Craft Wondrous Item who makes and upgrades his own items to buff his truespeak checks. Glibness is the primary prerequisite we've set for the items he creates in that regard, but since the party doesn't contain a bard and the party is rarely in one spot long enough for him to hire on a bard to cast the spell (and in my game they aren't really interested in tagging along with the party) he's looking to create an item that can duplicate glibness for the purposes of creating items.

Now, the complicated bit. (If this was a wand of glibness, that'd be too easy.) I know spell completion and spell trigger items can be used in creation, and he's got enough in UMD to be able to pull off activating most anything. However, he's looking for something that's done as a single charge per day that refreshes each day into eternity so he doesn't have to continually buy/make wands. Further, he'd like it to take the form of a body slot (appropriateness of particular body slots to be hashed out between us) if it'll reduce the cost of making the item. My first reaction was to simply base this on eternal wands out of the MIC and go from there, but those are command-word activation, which I know is a completely separate pricing structure.

So basically, my question here comes down to, what options would you give this player for creating this item? What type of item would it be (body slot or tool), would you allow it to be a charge-per-day-forever item, what prerequisites would you require (mainly, would he need a feat like craft wand in addition to craft wondrous because wondrous items are rarely spell trigger items), and what price would you set?

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any assistance. :)
Kouk
02-01-08, 12:40 AM What exactly is he trying to make here?
jeffv
02-01-08, 12:46 AM An item that can cast Glibness once per day (forever) as a spell completion or spell trigger item in whatever fashion is the cheapest for him to create.
arjomanes
02-01-08, 12:52 AM Have you looked at eternal wands in MIC? It might actually fit his needs without being custom.

If you don't own the Magic Item Compendium, it's basically a wand with a 2/day use, but it doesn't expend charges. The cost for an eternal wand of glibness would be 10,900 gp.
jeffv
02-01-08, 12:55 AM Have you looked at eternal wands in MIC? It might actually fit his needs without being custom.

If you don't own the Magic Item Compendium, it's basically a wand with a 2/day use, but it doesn't expend charges. The cost for an eternal wand of glibness would be 10,900 gp.

Already looked at that, and an eternal wand can't be used for item creation because it's a command word activation item. It would need to be spell completion or spell trigger to meet the creation prerequisite.
Mysteria
02-01-08, 11:05 AM What about just changing the type of activation for an eternal wand to spell completion or trigger?
Kouk
02-01-08, 12:27 PM An item that can cast Glibness once per day (forever) as a spell completion or spell trigger item in whatever fashion is the cheapest for him to create.

I meant what was the item he needed Glibness to be able to craft? Perhaps some other prerequisite spell could work that was less difficult?
jeffv
02-01-08, 07:19 PM What about just changing the type of activation for an eternal wand to spell completion or trigger?
Would you adjust the price for the item to make that change or leave it as is? And would you allow him to craft it as a body slot item to make it cheaper?
I meant what was the item he needed Glibness to be able to craft? Perhaps some other prerequisite spell could work that was less difficult?
He's got two different items that provide bonuses to his Truespeak check, both of which work essentially the same way. One is an Amulet of the Silver Tongue (Tome of Magic p263) which has Glibness for sure. We agreed awhile ago that his other item would have the same prerequisites. He's already got both items - at this point he's working on enhancing them, so I'm not changing the prereqs on him midstream without a real good reason.
Positronica
02-01-08, 07:21 PM According to the SRD, a Use-Activated item that could cast Glibness 1/day at caster level 8th would cost 9600gp. The formula is...

(Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 / (5 / uses per day)) = Cost in gp.

However, you want a Spell Completion item, right? Well, in the SRD, a single use Spell Completion item costs half what a single use Use-Activated item costs. If you apply that same rule to x/day items, then a Spell Completion item that could cast Glibness 1/day would cost 4800gp.

However, if I was the DM, I would require that the player be able to "use" the item while crafting, which means he'd need to be able to wear it. According to the SRD, if an item has an "Uncustomary Space Limitation", the cost is multiplied by 1.5. This would bring the price up to 7200gp. (If your player could make a strong arguement that being able to cast Glibness 1/day fits in with one of the Body Slot Affinities, then you could ignore this increase.) Your player may also want to be able to wear the item without using up a slot. According to the SRD, if an item has "No Space Limitation", the cost is doubled. That would bring you back to the original 9600gp.

I hope all that helps.
Mysteria
02-01-08, 07:53 PM Would you adjust the price for the item to make that change or leave it as is? And would you allow him to craft it as a body slot item to make it cheaper?

Price: I'm not sure. Depends a bit on what other use that spell has besides crafting. Is there a liar in the party that would love to use that item too? How much do you rely on social interactions?
And in crafting: how many wands of glibness would he need to get the same effect? Let's see, wand of glibness: 750*3*8 = 18.000gp
Hm, yes, leave the price as is.

Body slot: It doesn't seem right of have a spell completion item that basically mimicks a wand use up a body slot. Especially not if it's only to lower the price. By the way, if he wants to limit the use to his class and race to get a discount: just No.
jeffv
02-01-08, 10:10 PM According to the SRD, a Use-Activated item that could cast Glibness 1/day at caster level 8th would cost 9600gp. The formula is...

(Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 / (5 / uses per day)) = Cost in gp.

However, you want a Spell Completion item, right? Well, in the SRD, a single use Spell Completion item costs half what a single use Use-Activated item costs. If you apply that same rule to x/day items, then a Spell Completion item that could cast Glibness 1/day would cost 4800gp.

However, if I was the DM, I would require that the player be able to "use" the item while crafting, which means he'd need to be able to wear it. According to the SRD, if an item has an "Uncustomary Space Limitation", the cost is multiplied by 1.5. This would bring the price up to 7200gp. (If your player could make a strong arguement that being able to cast Glibness 1/day fits in with one of the Body Slot Affinities, then you could ignore this increase.) Your player may also want to be able to wear the item without using up a slot. According to the SRD, if an item has "No Space Limitation", the cost is doubled. That would bring you back to the original 9600gp.

I hope all that helps.
That's a good way of looking at it... I'm going to take a good look at the SRD, I somehow forgot to check there for assistance. (Not entirely sure how that happened, I use the SRD all the time...)
Price: I'm not sure. Depends a bit on what other use that spell has besides crafting. Is there a liar in the party that would love to use that item too? How much do you rely on social interactions?
And in crafting: how many wands of glibness would he need to get the same effect? Let's see, wand of glibness: 750*3*8 = 18.000gp
Hm, yes, leave the price as is.
15750 actually, bard level 7, but you make a fair point.
Body slot: It doesn't seem right of have a spell completion item that basically mimicks a wand use up a body slot. Especially not if it's only to lower the price.
That's essentially what I was thinking. This guy's a serious munchkin and constantly pushes the envelope. Good to see I'm not out on my own thinking this particular thing.
By the way, if he wants to limit the use to his class and race to get a discount: just No.
He already tried that one. I shot that down real fast.
Mysteria
02-02-08, 02:25 AM I was going by the fact that a a bard lvl7 only has bonus lvl3 spells due to high charisma. He might not be able to find one that has the required cha. ;)
Ayzain
02-02-08, 07:03 PM The DMG has a chart for all custom magic items. It's actually on a number of pages, but I can't remember the exact numbers. Remember, though, that it's cost to create. If this character intends to buy the item, the market price is substantially higher than the creation fees.

Note: Page 285 in DMG 3.5

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jeffv 02-01-08, 12:21 AM	Greetings- I've been DMing for some time, but to this point my players have been content to purchase items from the books, or items from the books with very minor variations that are easy to price out. I now have a player who wants a custom-ish item which I'm willing to allow him to have in some form, but I'm unsure exactly how to implement it or what the price for such an item would be. A bit of background: The character is a truenamer with Craft Wondrous Item who makes and upgrades his own items to buff his truespeak checks. Glibness is the primary prerequisite we've set for the items he creates in that regard, but since the party doesn't contain a bard and the party is rarely in one spot long enough for him to hire on a bard to cast the spell (and in my game they aren't really interested in tagging along with the party) he's looking to create an item that can duplicate glibness for the purposes of creating items. Now, the complicated bit. (If this was a wand of glibness, that'd be too easy.) I know spell completion and spell trigger items can be used in creation, and he's got enough in UMD to be able to pull off activating most anything. However, he's looking for something that's done as a single charge per day that refreshes each day into eternity so he doesn't have to continually buy/make wands. Further, he'd like it to take the form of a body slot (appropriateness of particular body slots to be hashed out between us) if it'll reduce the cost of making the item. My first reaction was to simply base this on eternal wands out of the MIC and go from there, but those are command-word activation, which I know is a completely separate pricing structure. So basically, my question here comes down to, what options would you give this player for creating this item? What type of item would it be (body slot or tool), would you allow it to be a charge-per-day-forever item, what prerequisites would you require (mainly, would he need a feat like craft wand in addition to craft wondrous because wondrous items are rarely spell trigger items), and what price would you set? If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any assistance. :)
Kouk 02-01-08, 12:40 AM	What exactly is he trying to make here?
jeffv 02-01-08, 12:46 AM	An item that can cast Glibness once per day (forever) as a spell completion or spell trigger item in whatever fashion is the cheapest for him to create.
arjomanes 02-01-08, 12:52 AM	Have you looked at eternal wands in MIC? It might actually fit his needs without being custom. If you don't own the Magic Item Compendium, it's basically a wand with a 2/day use, but it doesn't expend charges. The cost for an eternal wand of glibness would be 10,900 gp.
jeffv 02-01-08, 12:55 AM	Have you looked at eternal wands in MIC? It might actually fit his needs without being custom. If you don't own the Magic Item Compendium, it's basically a wand with a 2/day use, but it doesn't expend charges. The cost for an eternal wand of glibness would be 10,900 gp. Already looked at that, and an eternal wand can't be used for item creation because it's a command word activation item. It would need to be spell completion or spell trigger to meet the creation prerequisite.
Mysteria 02-01-08, 11:05 AM	What about just changing the type of activation for an eternal wand to spell completion or trigger?
Kouk 02-01-08, 12:27 PM	An item that can cast Glibness once per day (forever) as a spell completion or spell trigger item in whatever fashion is the cheapest for him to create. I meant what was the item he needed Glibness to be able to craft? Perhaps some other prerequisite spell could work that was less difficult?
jeffv 02-01-08, 07:19 PM	What about just changing the type of activation for an eternal wand to spell completion or trigger? Would you adjust the price for the item to make that change or leave it as is? And would you allow him to craft it as a body slot item to make it cheaper? I meant what was the item he needed Glibness to be able to craft? Perhaps some other prerequisite spell could work that was less difficult? He's got two different items that provide bonuses to his Truespeak check, both of which work essentially the same way. One is an Amulet of the Silver Tongue (Tome of Magic p263) which has Glibness for sure. We agreed awhile ago that his other item would have the same prerequisites. He's already got both items - at this point he's working on enhancing them, so I'm not changing the prereqs on him midstream without a real good reason.
Positronica 02-01-08, 07:21 PM	According to the SRD, a Use-Activated item that could cast Glibness 1/day at caster level 8th would cost 9600gp. The formula is... (Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 / (5 / uses per day)) = Cost in gp. However, you want a Spell Completion item, right? Well, in the SRD, a single use Spell Completion item costs half what a single use Use-Activated item costs. If you apply that same rule to x/day items, then a Spell Completion item that could cast Glibness 1/day would cost 4800gp. However, if I was the DM, I would require that the player be able to "use" the item while crafting, which means he'd need to be able to wear it. According to the SRD, if an item has an "Uncustomary Space Limitation", the cost is multiplied by 1.5. This would bring the price up to 7200gp. (If your player could make a strong arguement that being able to cast Glibness 1/day fits in with one of the Body Slot Affinities, then you could ignore this increase.) Your player may also want to be able to wear the item without using up a slot. According to the SRD, if an item has "No Space Limitation", the cost is doubled. That would bring you back to the original 9600gp. I hope all that helps.
Mysteria 02-01-08, 07:53 PM	Would you adjust the price for the item to make that change or leave it as is? And would you allow him to craft it as a body slot item to make it cheaper? Price: I'm not sure. Depends a bit on what other use that spell has besides crafting. Is there a liar in the party that would love to use that item too? How much do you rely on social interactions? And in crafting: how many wands of glibness would he need to get the same effect? Let's see, wand of glibness: 75038 = 18.000gp Hm, yes, leave the price as is. Body slot: It doesn't seem right of have a spell completion item that basically mimicks a wand use up a body slot. Especially not if it's only to lower the price. By the way, if he wants to limit the use to his class and race to get a discount: just No.
jeffv 02-01-08, 10:10 PM	According to the SRD, a Use-Activated item that could cast Glibness 1/day at caster level 8th would cost 9600gp. The formula is... (Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 / (5 / uses per day)) = Cost in gp. However, you want a Spell Completion item, right? Well, in the SRD, a single use Spell Completion item costs half what a single use Use-Activated item costs. If you apply that same rule to x/day items, then a Spell Completion item that could cast Glibness 1/day would cost 4800gp. However, if I was the DM, I would require that the player be able to "use" the item while crafting, which means he'd need to be able to wear it. According to the SRD, if an item has an "Uncustomary Space Limitation", the cost is multiplied by 1.5. This would bring the price up to 7200gp. (If your player could make a strong arguement that being able to cast Glibness 1/day fits in with one of the Body Slot Affinities, then you could ignore this increase.) Your player may also want to be able to wear the item without using up a slot. According to the SRD, if an item has "No Space Limitation", the cost is doubled. That would bring you back to the original 9600gp. I hope all that helps. That's a good way of looking at it... I'm going to take a good look at the SRD, I somehow forgot to check there for assistance. (Not entirely sure how that happened, I use the SRD all the time...) Price: I'm not sure. Depends a bit on what other use that spell has besides crafting. Is there a liar in the party that would love to use that item too? How much do you rely on social interactions? And in crafting: how many wands of glibness would he need to get the same effect? Let's see, wand of glibness: 75038 = 18.000gp Hm, yes, leave the price as is. 15750 actually, bard level 7, but you make a fair point. Body slot: It doesn't seem right of have a spell completion item that basically mimicks a wand use up a body slot. Especially not if it's only to lower the price. That's essentially what I was thinking. This guy's a serious munchkin and constantly pushes the envelope. Good to see I'm not out on my own thinking this particular thing. By the way, if he wants to limit the use to his class and race to get a discount: just No. He already tried that one. I shot that down real fast.
Mysteria 02-02-08, 02:25 AM	I was going by the fact that a a bard lvl7 only has bonus lvl3 spells due to high charisma. He might not be able to find one that has the required cha. ;)
Ayzain 02-02-08, 07:03 PM	The DMG has a chart for all custom magic items. It's actually on a number of pages, but I can't remember the exact numbers. Remember, though, that it's cost to create. If this character intends to buy the item, the market price is substantially higher than the creation fees. Note: Page 285 in DMG 3.5