Assistance - Epic Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assistance - Epic Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goblinchaser
10-02-07, 09:22 AM I am currently working on running a epic level campaign for a group of 23rd level characters, who previously played through the Age of Worms adventure Path. (well most of them).

The scenario is that one of the old PC's (mine as I was a player) had captured a bit of the divine spark that was kyuss, and has became slightly corrupted, gaining a meglomaniac view upon life. As a Lawful Neutral, he has adopted the drive to put order to the Chaos everywhere.

I have a rather LARGE group of players, 7 in all.
20 Wiz/3 Archmage
23 Warforged Fighter (mcnasty great-axe)
2 Druid/4 Cleric, 5 Master of Radiance 10 RSoP 2 Hier (Undead turning Machine)
23rd Bard
10 Fighter/10 Dwarven Def
13 Paladin/10 Shining Blade
1 20th level ? (new Player)

Most have pretty Hefty stats, the original DM allowed a 48 point Buy on stats, and with wizards capable of wishes, there is a good number of inherent bonuses (consider 5 in primary stats).

We are using a forum to deciminate information, as well as allow the players to gather information, share that info as well as handle any of the story driven information that tends to slow down a session, where only one or two characters are involved.

Allowing for our once a month session for this campaign to hopefully go smooth.

This is my first attempt at epic play, and understand how it can quickly get out of hand. Luckily the players have not stepped into epic handbook much other than a feat. And have not expanded to epic spellcasting.

I am looking for some ideas on how to challenge them while allowing them to feel as if they are epic, not just adventurers with more toys.

Lastly I would like to find a means to have challenging encounters with out the need to beef up non monstrous opponenets with magic items. I would like to stay away from the cliche of kill loot, kill loot... I prefer to invest more energy in the story rather than maintaining an inventory.

And rewards for Epic Level PC's with out creating an imbalance. The Paladin gained the City of Alhaster at the end of the adventure path, and each member of the group has taken a role in the Cities daily routines and defenses.

I am open to any Ideas or input...
damixmastermike
10-02-07, 01:22 PM 2 Druid/4 Cleric, 5 Master of Radiance 10 RSoP 2 Hier (Undead turning Machine)

I loathe class *****s.

As per epic campaigns, You'll probably be best off writing all your own monsters. If you've ever played d20modern, SWRPG or STRPG, you typically have the PCs fight NPCs in those games. Personally, once my party's hit epic levels, I, more often the not have them fight NPCs just like these others. Sure, the epic monsters in the ELH are decent, but they seem to be just slapped together.
Choice of things to fight at epic levels
(1) Fight NPCs
(2) Fight monsters of my own creation (typically higher HD base monsters)
(3) Fight premade WotC monsters
Altar_Boy
10-02-07, 06:26 PM 1) Use Epic Handbook.
2) Look at Champions of Ruin. Lots of epic monsters there.
3) Add class levels to CR 15 plus monsters.

Treasures? Cities, demi-planes, artifacts, basically anything you can't put a price on.

Put them in challenging terrain. Can they kill the Tarrasque in the Negative Energy plane? What about an insane Solar in the Far Realm?

As for campaign flavour, maybe you could run them through the transition from 3rd Edition Multiverse to 4th Edition. The Destruction of the Great Wheel should be a compelling enough motivator.
temparus2000
10-02-07, 07:34 PM I ran an epic campaign once. This is how I handled the "epic, not just adventureres with more toys" problem:

The PC's have a large plot of land (or even a whole kingdom) given to them. That land is then raided by a suitably high CR monster. This creates a feeling that the PC's are no longer just wandering around bashing in the heads of random critters. They're not keeping THE land safe, they're keeping THEIR land safe, THEIR people. Ya know, big-time hero stuff.

Another possible idea is that powerful creatures from other planes begin petitioning to the PC's for help with various problems, indicating that tales of their heroics have passed beyond this world. This also creates an environment that sets them far apart from typical adventurers.
cypherx
10-02-07, 08:04 PM i don't know how ya'll stand up in those epic adventures. seriously.

those epic monsters trash our parties.

their attack is so high, we don't even bother to wear armor. we just put all the money into attacking and try to drop them before they drop us.

their SR is so high, you have to cast spells as a group to overcome it.

i wouldn't worry, pull the infernal out of the epic level handbook and let them run a short adventure before it. :weep:
Goblinchaser
10-02-07, 08:18 PM i don't know how ya'll stand up in those epic adventures. seriously.

those epic monsters trash our parties.

their attack is so high, we don't even bother to wear armor. we just put all the money into attacking and try to drop them before they drop us.

their SR is so high, you have to cast spells as a group to overcome it.

i wouldn't worry, pull the infernal out of the epic level handbook and let them run a short adventure before it. :weep:

I have played in epic previously and had the same result, I do realize the CR's in ELH is hosed camparably speaking, I figured I would be working with Normal creatures with templates fromt he multitude of sources out there.

The transition from 3.5 to 4e, is a great idea, considering I already played with the idea of what the lawful Cleric wants to do, "put Order to all Chaos" will have a heavy impact on the cosmos, after all with out chaos things would stagnate.

At 23rd they are still not the biggest dogs on the block...

thanks for the feedback and keep the idea's coming
Goblinchaser
10-02-07, 08:28 PM Some current Plots idea's that are running, currently

1) an antagonist that bother the players in there lower levels 1-8th was killed by the PC's, and intered, but recently his tomb was robbed and his body missing.

2) the Silver Dragon Vampire the PC's defeated and ripped the hoard off has returned and attacked the PC's city while the went off to check on their Lawful Freind gone mad.

3) The Lich the group defeated (barely at 19th level) is secretely awaiting a oppurtune time to strike at the group. While they did not destroy his phylactary, they did make off with some of his prized items and spellbook.

I would like to have a way to tie it all together to put furhter along the path to stop the cleric from undoing chaos.

**off topic** would there be a way to redeem the vampiric Silver dragon?
Altar_Boy
10-03-07, 05:36 PM Redeem the Vampire? I don't know. From what I heard, she did a lot of bad stuff on her own accord. Maybe she believes she would be a better ruler of Alhaster than the PCs. In her twisted mind, she conquers to free the people. However, I can't imagine her being chummy with "those meddling kids and their dumb dog." :P

You could tie in 1) and 3) by having the Lich dig up old acquiantances and enemies of the PCs. He "Speaks with Dead" to them to have them reveal the PC's darkest fears and weaknesses, and begins crafting aberrations in the image of their greatest terrors. :devil:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goblinchaser 10-02-07, 09:22 AM	I am currently working on running a epic level campaign for a group of 23rd level characters, who previously played through the Age of Worms adventure Path. (well most of them). The scenario is that one of the old PC's (mine as I was a player) had captured a bit of the divine spark that was kyuss, and has became slightly corrupted, gaining a meglomaniac view upon life. As a Lawful Neutral, he has adopted the drive to put order to the Chaos everywhere. I have a rather LARGE group of players, 7 in all. 20 Wiz/3 Archmage 23 Warforged Fighter (mcnasty great-axe) 2 Druid/4 Cleric, 5 Master of Radiance 10 RSoP 2 Hier (Undead turning Machine) 23rd Bard 10 Fighter/10 Dwarven Def 13 Paladin/10 Shining Blade 1 20th level ? (new Player) Most have pretty Hefty stats, the original DM allowed a 48 point Buy on stats, and with wizards capable of wishes, there is a good number of inherent bonuses (consider 5 in primary stats). We are using a forum to deciminate information, as well as allow the players to gather information, share that info as well as handle any of the story driven information that tends to slow down a session, where only one or two characters are involved. Allowing for our once a month session for this campaign to hopefully go smooth. This is my first attempt at epic play, and understand how it can quickly get out of hand. Luckily the players have not stepped into epic handbook much other than a feat. And have not expanded to epic spellcasting. I am looking for some ideas on how to challenge them while allowing them to feel as if they are epic, not just adventurers with more toys. Lastly I would like to find a means to have challenging encounters with out the need to beef up non monstrous opponenets with magic items. I would like to stay away from the cliche of kill loot, kill loot... I prefer to invest more energy in the story rather than maintaining an inventory. And rewards for Epic Level PC's with out creating an imbalance. The Paladin gained the City of Alhaster at the end of the adventure path, and each member of the group has taken a role in the Cities daily routines and defenses. I am open to any Ideas or input...
damixmastermike 10-02-07, 01:22 PM	2 Druid/4 Cleric, 5 Master of Radiance 10 RSoP 2 Hier (Undead turning Machine) I loathe class *****s. As per epic campaigns, You'll probably be best off writing all your own monsters. If you've ever played d20modern, SWRPG or STRPG, you typically have the PCs fight NPCs in those games. Personally, once my party's hit epic levels, I, more often the not have them fight NPCs just like these others. Sure, the epic monsters in the ELH are decent, but they seem to be just slapped together. Choice of things to fight at epic levels (1) Fight NPCs (2) Fight monsters of my own creation (typically higher HD base monsters) (3) Fight premade WotC monsters
Altar_Boy 10-02-07, 06:26 PM	1) Use Epic Handbook. 2) Look at Champions of Ruin. Lots of epic monsters there. 3) Add class levels to CR 15 plus monsters. Treasures? Cities, demi-planes, artifacts, basically anything you can't put a price on. Put them in challenging terrain. Can they kill the Tarrasque in the Negative Energy plane? What about an insane Solar in the Far Realm? As for campaign flavour, maybe you could run them through the transition from 3rd Edition Multiverse to 4th Edition. The Destruction of the Great Wheel should be a compelling enough motivator.
temparus2000 10-02-07, 07:34 PM	I ran an epic campaign once. This is how I handled the "epic, not just adventureres with more toys" problem: The PC's have a large plot of land (or even a whole kingdom) given to them. That land is then raided by a suitably high CR monster. This creates a feeling that the PC's are no longer just wandering around bashing in the heads of random critters. They're not keeping THE land safe, they're keeping THEIR land safe, THEIR people. Ya know, big-time hero stuff. Another possible idea is that powerful creatures from other planes begin petitioning to the PC's for help with various problems, indicating that tales of their heroics have passed beyond this world. This also creates an environment that sets them far apart from typical adventurers.
cypherx 10-02-07, 08:04 PM	i don't know how ya'll stand up in those epic adventures. seriously. those epic monsters trash our parties. their attack is so high, we don't even bother to wear armor. we just put all the money into attacking and try to drop them before they drop us. their SR is so high, you have to cast spells as a group to overcome it. i wouldn't worry, pull the infernal out of the epic level handbook and let them run a short adventure before it. :weep:
Goblinchaser 10-02-07, 08:18 PM	i don't know how ya'll stand up in those epic adventures. seriously. those epic monsters trash our parties. their attack is so high, we don't even bother to wear armor. we just put all the money into attacking and try to drop them before they drop us. their SR is so high, you have to cast spells as a group to overcome it. i wouldn't worry, pull the infernal out of the epic level handbook and let them run a short adventure before it. :weep: I have played in epic previously and had the same result, I do realize the CR's in ELH is hosed camparably speaking, I figured I would be working with Normal creatures with templates fromt he multitude of sources out there. The transition from 3.5 to 4e, is a great idea, considering I already played with the idea of what the lawful Cleric wants to do, "put Order to all Chaos" will have a heavy impact on the cosmos, after all with out chaos things would stagnate. At 23rd they are still not the biggest dogs on the block... thanks for the feedback and keep the idea's coming
Goblinchaser 10-02-07, 08:28 PM	Some current Plots idea's that are running, currently 1) an antagonist that bother the players in there lower levels 1-8th was killed by the PC's, and intered, but recently his tomb was robbed and his body missing. 2) the Silver Dragon Vampire the PC's defeated and ripped the hoard off has returned and attacked the PC's city while the went off to check on their Lawful Freind gone mad. 3) The Lich the group defeated (barely at 19th level) is secretely awaiting a oppurtune time to strike at the group. While they did not destroy his phylactary, they did make off with some of his prized items and spellbook. I would like to have a way to tie it all together to put furhter along the path to stop the cleric from undoing chaos. off topic would there be a way to redeem the vampiric Silver dragon?
Altar_Boy 10-03-07, 05:36 PM	Redeem the Vampire? I don't know. From what I heard, she did a lot of bad stuff on her own accord. Maybe she believes she would be a better ruler of Alhaster than the PCs. In her twisted mind, she conquers to free the people. However, I can't imagine her being chummy with "those meddling kids and their dumb dog." :P You could tie in 1) and 3) by having the Lich dig up old acquiantances and enemies of the PCs. He "Speaks with Dead" to them to have them reveal the PC's darkest fears and weaknesses, and begins crafting aberrations in the image of their greatest terrors. :devil: