Attack of opportunity Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attack of opportunity Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MattyB13
08-26-05, 02:51 PM here a question which isnt answered in in D&D books. i play a monk with improved unarmed strike. It allows me to take attacks of opportunities with my fists, and also prevents attacks of opportunities agasint me when attacking ith fists. Normally attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity. If i enter the threat range of an ogre and he takes an attack of opportunity against me while unarmed, would that provoke a subsiquent attack of opportunity agasint him for attacking unarmed without the improved unarmed strike feat... ??? thanks for the help guys, ill be interested in your opinions.
DraconsNighthawk
08-26-05, 02:53 PM Gah, trying to understand your question. My guess is that the Ogre thinks your unarmed, and thus gets a attack of oppurtenty? Wouldn't happen since you don't provoke aoe from being unarmed.

In any case, Aoe never provoke other aoe, so if he does a aoe on you, you don't get one back.
Murrdox
08-26-05, 02:58 PM First of all, you do not provoke an attack of opportunity by entering the Ogre's area.

Secondly, if the Ogre is not armed, then he does not threaten any squares around him, unless he has Improved Unarmed Strike. Thus, by definition if the Ogre is not armed, he CAN'T make attacks of opportunity against you, even if you do something to provoke one from him.

Third, if the Ogre DOES in some way attack you unarmed, then because he does not have Improved Unarmed strike, he indeed provokes an Attack of Opportunity from you.
MattyB13
08-26-05, 02:59 PM no no, i provoke the attack by moving into his threat range. when he takes that attacked unarmed, That would provoke an aoe. or becasue its an aoe is the unarmed strike aoe negated
MattyB13
08-26-05, 03:01 PM why would entering his threat range not provoke an attack of oppertunity?
Solik
08-26-05, 03:01 PM Wait. Is the ogre unarmed? If the ogre is unarmed, then he shouldn't get an AOO in the first place (since you said he doesn't have Improved Unarmed Attack).

If the ogre is armed, and he gets an AOO as normal, then that's the end of it. The monk doesn't get an AOO just because he is unarmed.

Normally, you cannot make AOO's against others if you are unarmed. Improved Unarmed Attack simply allows you to do so. It does not allow you to get AOO's every time an enemy attacks you if you are unarmed. Not quite sure how you drew that meaning out of the description.

Few instances allow you to get an AOO in response to an attack. One would be if the character uses a whip or ranged weapon; that provokes an AOO. Another is through the use of the Combat Instincts from the D20 Ultimate Feats book. That feat is horribly broken as-written, however.

Entering threat ranges do not provoke AOO's. Moving from threat range into threat range or out of threat range (unless you're using a 5ft step, Withdraw, or other specialties) does draw an AOO, however. Given that the ogre is Large, moving adjacent to the ogre would indeed provoke an AOO (10ft reach).
Illion the Red
08-26-05, 03:05 PM no no, i provoke the attack by moving into his threat range. when he takes that attacked unarmed, That would provoke an aoe. or becasue its an aoe is the unarmed strike aoe negated

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5?

In 3.0, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving INTO a threatened square.

In 3.5, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving OUT of a threatened square.

(Someone may correct me on this, but this is how I understand it).
Assuming 3.5: Since an Ogre has a reach of 10', he can threaten "two squares" out from him IF he is wielding a weapon. If the Ogre is unarmed and does not have Improved Unarmed Strike, he DOES NOT threaten ANY squares. Therefore, your monk running up to the unarmed Ogre does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the Ogre when the monk leaves the square two squares out from the Ogre.
MattyB13
08-26-05, 03:08 PM under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity.
Illion the Red
08-26-05, 03:12 PM under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity.

Not precisely. You only get one attack of opportunity per round. If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, that number increases.
Murrdox
08-26-05, 03:22 PM Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5?

In 3.0, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving INTO a threatened square.

In 3.5, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving OUT of a threatened square.

You're being silly! It was ALWAYS like it was in 3.5. You provoke AoO when you leave a threatened square, not when you enter one. It was the same in 3.0. :)

(Someone may correct me on this, but this is how I understand it).
Assuming 3.5: Since an Ogre has a reach of 10', he can threaten "two squares" out from him IF he is wielding a weapon. If the Ogre is unarmed and does not have Improved Unarmed Strike, he DOES NOT threaten ANY squares. Therefore, your monk running up to the unarmed Ogre does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the Ogre when the monk leaves the square two squares out from the Ogre.

Absolutely correct.

Unless this Ogre in question has a level of Monk - he can't make attacks of opportunity against ANYONE and furthermore he doesn't even threaten any squares.

under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity.

Combat Reflexes or no, the rules state that you can only take ONE attack of opportunity per opponent per round.
DraconsNighthawk
08-26-05, 03:30 PM Also, if YOU provoke a aoo, and the ogre takes it, you do NOT get one back.
Murrdox
08-26-05, 03:31 PM Also, if YOU provoke a aoo, and the ogre takes it, you do NOT get one back.

If the Ogre isn't armed, it's impossible for him to provoke an Attack of Opportunity in the first place, because an unarmed Ogre doesn't threaten anything.
Illion the Red
08-26-05, 03:37 PM Combat Reflexes or no, the rules state that you can only take ONE attack of opportunity per opponent per round.

Are you sure on this one?

What about this situation:

Bob the Orc is standing in front of Ed the Fighter. Bob is armed with a shortbow. Ed is armed with a longsword and has the Combat Reflexes feat.

Bob fires his bow at Ed, provoking an attack of opportunity. Bob then takes his move action to move 20' backwards, moving out of a square that Ed threatens. Does Ed get another attack of opportunity?

I think the answer is yes.
Kalidor
08-26-05, 03:43 PM In 3.5 Combat reflexes allows you to make an AoO every time a foe provokes one in a round until you run out.

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you -- such as by moving out of a threatened square and then casting a spell in a threatened square -- you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your normal attack bonus. You do not reduce your attack bonus for making multiple attacks of opportunity.

Source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rs/20030506a
DraconsNighthawk
08-26-05, 03:55 PM If the Ogre isn't armed, it's impossible for him to provoke an Attack of Opportunity in the first place, because an unarmed Ogre doesn't threaten anything.

True, but it seems like he was asking if someone takes a AOO because it seems like he is unarmed, he wants to take a aoo on them. I'm just clarfiying a answer.
StevenO
08-27-05, 12:30 AM Hypothetical scenario: Ogre has reach weapon (threaten 15'-20'), no natural or improved unarmed attacks, and monk starts in the threatened zone 15' away.
Ogre readies an unarmed attack of some kind for when monk enters normal reach.
Monk decides to close to attack ogre (move 10' + attack), starts movement and provokes Ogre's AoO at 15' before moving to 10'.
At 10' monk is in ogres reach and it makes unarmed attack. This provokes an AoO for the monk BUT the monk DOES NOT threaten the ogre and therfore can't make the attack. Assuming nothing stops the monk it moves to 5' and attacks the ogre.

In the next round if the ogre makes an unarmed attack the monk first gets it AoO. If the ogre takes a 5' step back then makes an unarmed attack it provokes an AoO that the monk can't take because it no longer threatens the ogre. The monk may then take its 5' step toward the ogre without provoking an AoO from the ogre.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MattyB13 08-26-05, 02:51 PM	here a question which isnt answered in in D&D books. i play a monk with improved unarmed strike. It allows me to take attacks of opportunities with my fists, and also prevents attacks of opportunities agasint me when attacking ith fists. Normally attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity. If i enter the threat range of an ogre and he takes an attack of opportunity against me while unarmed, would that provoke a subsiquent attack of opportunity agasint him for attacking unarmed without the improved unarmed strike feat... ??? thanks for the help guys, ill be interested in your opinions.
DraconsNighthawk 08-26-05, 02:53 PM	Gah, trying to understand your question. My guess is that the Ogre thinks your unarmed, and thus gets a attack of oppurtenty? Wouldn't happen since you don't provoke aoe from being unarmed. In any case, Aoe never provoke other aoe, so if he does a aoe on you, you don't get one back.
Murrdox 08-26-05, 02:58 PM	First of all, you do not provoke an attack of opportunity by entering the Ogre's area. Secondly, if the Ogre is not armed, then he does not threaten any squares around him, unless he has Improved Unarmed Strike. Thus, by definition if the Ogre is not armed, he CAN'T make attacks of opportunity against you, even if you do something to provoke one from him. Third, if the Ogre DOES in some way attack you unarmed, then because he does not have Improved Unarmed strike, he indeed provokes an Attack of Opportunity from you.
MattyB13 08-26-05, 02:59 PM	no no, i provoke the attack by moving into his threat range. when he takes that attacked unarmed, That would provoke an aoe. or becasue its an aoe is the unarmed strike aoe negated
MattyB13 08-26-05, 03:01 PM	why would entering his threat range not provoke an attack of oppertunity?
Solik 08-26-05, 03:01 PM	Wait. Is the ogre unarmed? If the ogre is unarmed, then he shouldn't get an AOO in the first place (since you said he doesn't have Improved Unarmed Attack). If the ogre is armed, and he gets an AOO as normal, then that's the end of it. The monk doesn't get an AOO just because he is unarmed. Normally, you cannot make AOO's against others if you are unarmed. Improved Unarmed Attack simply allows you to do so. It does not allow you to get AOO's every time an enemy attacks you if you are unarmed. Not quite sure how you drew that meaning out of the description. Few instances allow you to get an AOO in response to an attack. One would be if the character uses a whip or ranged weapon; that provokes an AOO. Another is through the use of the Combat Instincts from the D20 Ultimate Feats book. That feat is horribly broken as-written, however. Entering threat ranges do not provoke AOO's. Moving from threat range into threat range or out of threat range (unless you're using a 5ft step, Withdraw, or other specialties) does draw an AOO, however. Given that the ogre is Large, moving adjacent to the ogre would indeed provoke an AOO (10ft reach).
Illion the Red 08-26-05, 03:05 PM	no no, i provoke the attack by moving into his threat range. when he takes that attacked unarmed, That would provoke an aoe. or becasue its an aoe is the unarmed strike aoe negated Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? In 3.0, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving INTO a threatened square. In 3.5, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving OUT of a threatened square. (Someone may correct me on this, but this is how I understand it). Assuming 3.5: Since an Ogre has a reach of 10', he can threaten "two squares" out from him IF he is wielding a weapon. If the Ogre is unarmed and does not have Improved Unarmed Strike, he DOES NOT threaten ANY squares. Therefore, your monk running up to the unarmed Ogre does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the Ogre when the monk leaves the square two squares out from the Ogre.
MattyB13 08-26-05, 03:08 PM	under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity.
Illion the Red 08-26-05, 03:12 PM	under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity. Not precisely. You only get one attack of opportunity per round. If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, that number increases.
Murrdox 08-26-05, 03:22 PM	Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? In 3.0, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving INTO a threatened square. In 3.5, you provoke attacks of opportunity by moving OUT of a threatened square. You're being silly! It was ALWAYS like it was in 3.5. You provoke AoO when you leave a threatened square, not when you enter one. It was the same in 3.0. :) (Someone may correct me on this, but this is how I understand it). Assuming 3.5: Since an Ogre has a reach of 10', he can threaten "two squares" out from him IF he is wielding a weapon. If the Ogre is unarmed and does not have Improved Unarmed Strike, he DOES NOT threaten ANY squares. Therefore, your monk running up to the unarmed Ogre does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the Ogre when the monk leaves the square two squares out from the Ogre. Absolutely correct. Unless this Ogre in question has a level of Monk - he can't make attacks of opportunity against ANYONE and furthermore he doesn't even threaten any squares. under the AOO chart in chapter 8 of the 3.5 players handbook it says attacking unarmed provokes an attack of oppertunity. which means everytime im attacked by an unarmed opponent then i can take an attack of opportunity. Combat Reflexes or no, the rules state that you can only take ONE attack of opportunity per opponent per round.
DraconsNighthawk 08-26-05, 03:30 PM	Also, if YOU provoke a aoo, and the ogre takes it, you do NOT get one back.
Murrdox 08-26-05, 03:31 PM	Also, if YOU provoke a aoo, and the ogre takes it, you do NOT get one back. If the Ogre isn't armed, it's impossible for him to provoke an Attack of Opportunity in the first place, because an unarmed Ogre doesn't threaten anything.
Illion the Red 08-26-05, 03:37 PM	Combat Reflexes or no, the rules state that you can only take ONE attack of opportunity per opponent per round. Are you sure on this one? What about this situation: Bob the Orc is standing in front of Ed the Fighter. Bob is armed with a shortbow. Ed is armed with a longsword and has the Combat Reflexes feat. Bob fires his bow at Ed, provoking an attack of opportunity. Bob then takes his move action to move 20' backwards, moving out of a square that Ed threatens. Does Ed get another attack of opportunity? I think the answer is yes.
Kalidor 08-26-05, 03:43 PM	In 3.5 Combat reflexes allows you to make an AoO every time a foe provokes one in a round until you run out. Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you -- such as by moving out of a threatened square and then casting a spell in a threatened square -- you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your normal attack bonus. You do not reduce your attack bonus for making multiple attacks of opportunity. Source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rs/20030506a
DraconsNighthawk 08-26-05, 03:55 PM	If the Ogre isn't armed, it's impossible for him to provoke an Attack of Opportunity in the first place, because an unarmed Ogre doesn't threaten anything. True, but it seems like he was asking if someone takes a AOO because it seems like he is unarmed, he wants to take a aoo on them. I'm just clarfiying a answer.
StevenO 08-27-05, 12:30 AM	Hypothetical scenario: Ogre has reach weapon (threaten 15'-20'), no natural or improved unarmed attacks, and monk starts in the threatened zone 15' away. Ogre readies an unarmed attack of some kind for when monk enters normal reach. Monk decides to close to attack ogre (move 10' + attack), starts movement and provokes Ogre's AoO at 15' before moving to 10'. At 10' monk is in ogres reach and it makes unarmed attack. This provokes an AoO for the monk BUT the monk DOES NOT threaten the ogre and therfore can't make the attack. Assuming nothing stops the monk it moves to 5' and attacks the ogre. In the next round if the ogre makes an unarmed attack the monk first gets it AoO. If the ogre takes a 5' step back then makes an unarmed attack it provokes an AoO that the monk can't take because it no longer threatens the ogre. The monk may then take its 5' step toward the ogre without provoking an AoO from the ogre.