Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PaladinKD 02-16-05, 02:53 PM	A couple questions concerning grappling: 1. If a medium creature is being grappled by a large creature, are there any chances of an outside third party doing damage to the wrong creature should they decide to attack? 2. Does it make a difference if the large creature is using the constrict ability instead?
Nom 02-16-05, 07:08 PM	Read PH pg 151. Any chance to hit the wrong target in a grapple applies to ranged attacks only. As for ranged attacks against a large grappling a medium, you need to decide whether you treat it like mounts (where the mounted creature is assumed to occupy the entire space of the mount) or whether the medium creature remains in a specific square. If the latter, just aim at a different square (remember that you pick the target square when firing at a large creature). If the former, I've not seen any specific rulings on the subject.
PaladinKD 02-17-05, 10:19 AM	Now let me complicate the matter ;) What if there is darkness centered on the grapplers and the attacker has the scent ability? (Ain't nothin simple in my games. Sheeesh!)
The_Ditto 02-17-05, 10:29 AM	Now let me complicate the matter ;) What if there is darkness centered on the grapplers and the attacker has the scent ability? (Ain't nothin simple in my games. Sheeesh!) Still no chance of accidentlly hitting the wrong target with a melee attack .. But I suspect he'll still have a miss chance vs his main target ..
PaladinKD 02-17-05, 12:23 PM	Still no chance of accidentlly hitting the wrong target with a melee attack .. But I suspect he'll still have a miss chance vs his main target .. Does this make any sense to you? I can't see him, he's entangled with a large snake, I'll lash out at him with my short sword. After all there's no way I could hit that REALLY BIG SNAKE HE'S WRESTLING WITH by accident. :confused: Basically, this may be the case by the book, but would anyone house rule this situation?
Nom 02-17-05, 09:38 PM	Scent allows pinpointing, which is a technical term for "knows which 5 ft. square the target is in.". Although not relevant to this discussion, note that scent can only pinpoint within 5 ft. of the target. Pinpointing only allows the creature to attack the correct square; the creature still suffers the 50% "total concealment" miss chance. In the case of attacking blindly into a grapple, you'd first suffer a 50% miss chance to hit anything, and then resolve the attack against a random opponent.
The_Ditto 02-18-05, 09:39 AM	Does this make any sense to you? Yes .. I can't see him, he's entangled with a large snake, I'll lash out at him with my short sword. After all there's no way I could hit that REALLY BIG SNAKE HE'S WRESTLING WITH by accident. :confused: ahh, I see the problem .. you're not used to the new 3.5 darkness!! :smirk: Darkness Evocation [Darkness] Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Object touched Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness. Sure you can see them .. he just has concealment .. :tiphat: Scent helps a bit .. but isn't really the issue .. Basically, this may be the case by the book, but would anyone house rule this situation? Only if total sight was lost .. ie Invisible or blinded ... but not for darkness/concealment .. because you can still see/target them .. :tiphat:
Ginyu549 02-18-05, 06:41 PM	I'm not sure if i read it in sage advice or in a core book somewhere but I am pretty sure that if you atttack into a grapple there is an equal chance that you will hit either grappler (50%) the rules cited on pg. 151 are completely out of context with your question. Yes there is a table there but it is only about whethor or not there is an ac modifier, not what your chances to hit the correct opponent are. I'm pretty sure as well, that if you pin your opponent you don't have to worry about it. They are pinned and can be attacked normally. Try it out at home. Have a couple of friends wrestle around and try to hit one of them with a stick (or pillow) there is NO WAY you are going to hit the right person every time unless they are pinned. My group trys to play with the RAW and we have been playing like this a long time, so I'm pretty sure this is correct. (99% sure it was in sage advice)
Nom 02-18-05, 07:36 PM	I'm not sure if i read it in sage advice or in a core book somewhere but I...I'm sorry to say this harshly, but: if you're going to try and correct someone who is quoting / referencing the rules, it behooves you to do two things: (1) read the rules so referenced (2) base your answer on quotes (or at least paraphrases) of the rules, not just random waffle Summary: your answer is misleading, wrong, and really makes it appear that you have no idea what you are talking about. * Rules for grappling are PH pg 156-157. Consequences of grappling are pg 156. * Rules for attacking grapplers from outside are in table 8-2 on PH pg 151. In melee, defender loses Dex bonus to AC. At range, defender loses Dex bonus to AC but target is randomised. * (for original poster) Rules for attacking creatures with total concealment (in a known square) are PH pg 152.