Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Metabubbles 02-11-05, 09:14 AM	I am part of a 5 person campaign (the Sorcerer) that has been playing consistently for more than 1 year. We had a fighter that in 'real life' was a bit off, even though playing D&D for more than 15 years total. Every time we would fight, he would run right through an "attack of oppurtunity" square, it became an ongoing joke with us. We have mostly encounters, and less 'role-playing', which is still fun but wouldn't the fighter know "if i go here I will get hit"? He has since left the party. The problem now, the rogue is becoming the same idiot that 'forgot' how to play, running right through the attack's of oppurtunity. What should the DM do? The rogue was very upset recently that we corrected her on her approach in the game. I understand a player forgetting etc... but her character would know better! I think it is unfair for the DM to keep handing out free attacks because a player forgot a rule. The DM is more than fair in these situations, but what should a DM do to remind them to be careful how to approach? I feel it is beyond the hands of the players, we don't want the DM helping us play, but we don't need our rogue dieing either. Thanks for your help!
Vharuck 02-11-05, 09:17 AM	I think having the opponent smack the rogue upside the head with every AoO possible will soon work its way in. The rogue can't get mad at the DM because she forgot the rules. It's time for her to sit down with the PHB and read the Combat section a couple times.
SlayerMac 02-11-05, 09:51 AM	The DM should hit rogue with every AoO available. It's the only way the player will learn. If the DM holds back, the player will continue his bad habits. I had a similar situation once, when I was the DM. The barbarian had great cleave. To take advantage of it, he ran into the middle of 5 orcs. After the AoO and their normal attacks, the barbarian was at -7 hp. It took two rounds for the wizard to clear a path for the cleric. The barbarian was at -9 when the cleric healed him. Since then the barbarian has been much more careful, almost too careful. :D
Nomad4life 02-11-05, 09:56 AM	Death is a good teacher.
Winter's requiem 02-11-05, 10:09 AM	If a player determin where to attack from by thinking wheter the oponent get an attack of oppertunity or not, is in my eyes metagaming. The player uses outeside information to choose where to attack, in a real fight, in real life people don't for example walk five foot to the left to get a stright line so he can charge the opponent.
ECOM 02-11-05, 10:11 AM	First time: inform player that the move will provoke an AOO. second time: roll the AOO I agree that their charicters should know better but I should not have to remind them all the time once per sesion is more than generous on my part plus my players are relativly new to the game.
VerinBlod 02-11-05, 10:46 AM	I agree with ECOM. Let the DM warn him first and if he makes the same move latter in the game just hit him with the AOO.
Vharuck 02-11-05, 10:52 AM	If a player determin where to attack from by thinking wheter the oponent get an attack of oppertunity or not, is in my eyes metagaming. The player uses outeside information to choose where to attack, in a real fight, in real life people don't for example walk five foot to the left to get a stright line so he can charge the opponent. Actually, this is not metagaming. I have sparred multipile opponents at once. It's basically a very simple fact that to win, you have to single them out and catch them without their partners. To get to them, you obviously have to avoid running right beside anyone you're going to pass, as your attention is elsewhere (the target) and you leave yourself not as defended as possible from oncoming attacks. I've been kicked in the back of the head when I did that the first time. There was no second time.
Aurum 02-11-05, 10:58 AM	I have stupid monsters do things that aren't tactically bright all the time, and let players capitalize on the mistakes. I'd suggest you don't remind the players until they begin rolling. You might make exceptions for players with high PC Wisdom scores. Eventually, they will RTFM.
Quijenoth 02-11-05, 11:24 AM	If a player determin where to attack from by thinking wheter the oponent get an attack of oppertunity or not, is in my eyes metagaming. The player uses outeside information to choose where to attack, in a real fight, in real life people don't for example walk five foot to the left to get a stright line so he can charge the opponent. I too feel that using the rules is not metagaming. The way i try to explain it is this... your a burglar sneaking through some back gardens. You see a vicious dog chained to a wall of one garden, the dog looks at you and growls. do you... A) run through the middle of the garden as fast as possible in the hope of reaching the other side before the dog reaches you, or... B) estimate the length of the chain and cross the garden at the maximum reach of the chain? Almost all will say B) but what you have to ask yourself is how long it took you to decide... from the point you finish reading its less than 1 second for most. now in a combat round you have 6 seconds, are trained in fighting and are skilled at weighting up combat situations instantaneously. So if a fighter wishes to make full use of an opponents threat range then i see no problem with it since its what hes trained to do. Some of my players use an old chess rule when moving miniatures on a battlemat. That is the move isnt final until you remove your hand from the miniature. some use this as a way to poker face the DM but ultimately it gives those less knowledgable on combat a second chance.
clarkvalentine 02-11-05, 11:30 AM	Avoiding AoO is no more metagaming than, say, using Power Attack or moving to avoid being flanked or not bunching up against a dragon with a breath weapon. There's nothing wrong with knowing the rules and using them to your advantage, provided you stay in character while doing so.
Metabubbles 02-11-05, 11:41 AM	And such a quick response, from sooooo many, thanks sooo much. I think I will recommend the 'warning' first then after that, AoO! I don't think the DM will mind the recommendation, it does get frustrating though. Thanks again, and rogue, be Warned...