Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cranewings 04-08-08, 08:39 PM	How do you describe attractive people in a game without offending people that aren't secure about their looks? Should you be pc and just state their Charisma score?
pintslayer 04-08-08, 08:46 PM	Cranewings? PC? Dude... Just lay it out there. If you have someone who gets riled up at that sort of thing, just kind of overplay it. Make your description a caricature of beautiful, like Jessica Rabbit. Or introduce some flaw they can focus on; a slightly long nose or a crooked smile. Just listen to a few women discussing supermodels, they can come up with enough flaws to make Jessica Simpson sound like Olive Oyl. I'm not a misogynist, just sayin'...
Cranewings 04-08-08, 08:48 PM	pintslayer, nice touch. I like that.
iserith 04-08-08, 09:03 PM	I describe comely NPC females as having "a bossom almost as ample as my supple man-boobs." I always get a laugh. But I die a little inside each time.
pintslayer 04-08-08, 09:10 PM	Just say, "I wouldn't kick her out for eating iron rations in bed." nudge nudge...wink wink
Kouk 04-08-08, 11:49 PM	Basically, if you just say, "A woman wearing leather armor approaches you," with no other information, guys will automatically assume she's beautiful and you won't have to say anything else :P Or to be cruel, describe everything as being great, and then at the end, "Oh, and you notice she's a hag monster." If you say, "A beautiful/handsome woman/man approaches you." you shouldn't really be concerned about offending anyone ... unless you then go on to say, "Unlike some people in this room. Right Jessie? Huh? Right?" If the person gets upset anytime anyone is more attractive, then try to avoid describing NPCs of that gender I guess.
Dark Stryke 04-09-08, 12:03 AM	Cranewings, this is a weird problem to have. Let me see if I can wrap my head around this. You have an NPC that you wish to describe as comely or attractive. You have a player that would probably not be described as comely or attractive. Your player dislikes the idea of a comely or attractive non-existant figment of your imagination in a game. Is that about right? This seems to be mostly a problem with the player's insecurity issues. Does this player also hate beautiful people in real life? If its so much of an issue for this player I would simply not mention how pleasing an NPC is on the eyes. Just describe physical features, and let the PCs draw their own conclusions. If this player starts griefing you, deny that you ever said the NPC was attractive (because you didn't), and mention that the player might be reading too much into things. Example: Cranewings (CW): You see a tall human woman. She is of slender build, though perhaps on the busty side. She has blue eyes, long, brown hair, and full lips which are parted around a white smile as she looks at you. Ugliness Incarnate (UI): Why are you putting all these beautiful women in the game? CW: What do you mean? UI: Do all the female characters have to be busty bimbos? CW: I never said she was attractive. UI: But she is. CW: If that's how you're imagining her, then fine. I don't have control over your imagination. UI: ... CW: I think you're reading into things too much. Is something else bothering you here? Aaaand you win.
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-09-08, 12:39 AM	Second just describe how they look and let the players draw their own conclusions. "Attractive" is too subjective (to both players and their characters) to have statistics anyway. Me, I'd treat Con, Int, and Str as the priority attraction stats, in that order. Cha... who cares? My character, well, stats don't matter too much, but if the woman isn't a goblin she can't have his babies, so what's the point? Show either of us some fanboy elf caricature and there'd be laughter at best and vomit at worst.
pigknight 04-09-08, 01:01 AM	Shag does low Int=blond hair? (It's a joke going through my group because my DMPC has 9 int and everyone else has 13+.)
Cranewings 04-09-08, 01:14 AM	Edit
pigknight 04-09-08, 01:19 AM	Someones jeulous of your sick fantasies, which I do not approve of ;).
Cuindless 04-09-08, 01:19 AM	Cranewings, this is a weird problem to have. Let me see if I can wrap my head around this. You have an NPC that you wish to describe as comely or attractive. You have a player that would probably not be described as comely or attractive. Your player dislikes the idea of a comely or attractive non-existant figment of your imagination in a game. Is that about right? This seems to be mostly a problem with the player's insecurity issues. Does this player also hate beautiful people in real life? If its so much of an issue for this player I would simply not mention how pleasing an NPC is on the eyes. Just describe physical features, and let the PCs draw their own conclusions. If this player starts griefing you, deny that you ever said the NPC was attractive (because you didn't), and mention that the player might be reading too much into things. Example: Cranewings (CW): You see a tall human woman. She is of slender build, though perhaps on the busty side. She has blue eyes, long, brown hair, and full lips which are parted around a white smile as she looks at you. Ugliness Incarnate (UI): Why are you putting all these beautiful women in the game? CW: What do you mean? UI: Do all the female characters have to be busty bimbos? CW: I never said she was attractive. UI: But she is. CW: If that's how you're imagining her, then fine. I don't have control over your imagination. UI: ... CW: I think you're reading into things too much. Is something else bothering you here? Aaaand you win. +2
Mad_Jack 04-09-08, 02:30 AM	Um, unless I'm reading your latest post wrong, I think the question needs to be asked... Are *all* of your female NPCs sexy or otherwise attractive? Are there any major recurring characters in the story that are of simply average looks as opposed to being either attractive or homely/matronly/frumpy? Do you spend a greater amount of time describing the physical appearance of females than you do describing males? The reason for her irritation may well be that you're stereotyping the female NPCs in your campaign. They fought their way through the Abyss and the outer planes and killed a dragon... only to find a Disney-esque princess? If, as you say, she herself is a very attractive woman, she's used to experiencing the same thing in her everyday life (i.e., being qualified by her physical appearance more than by whatever substance she possesses as a person), and could very well be irritated that she's finding the same thing in game. This is, of course, just my own reading of the situation, but I find it notable that your impression of her irritation was that it was due to insecurity or jealousy. You really should be discussing this with her to determine why she's irritated rather than putting forth an assumption and asking advice from strangers with no objective firsthand knowledge of the situation...
Cranewings 04-09-08, 02:35 AM	Mad Jack, could be true. Mostly all of my NPCs are classic sterio types. I could have too many good looking noc women, but the same would go for the men. Everyone is fantastic, great, beautiful, perfect, and if they aren't, then they are outstanding in some other way, or their are a mook. You could be right.
Kouk 04-09-08, 02:48 AM	Do you put a paragraph of explanation into every male NPC, or important figure? Like how his curly golden 'locks protrude playfully from his crown, his sculpted figure, ruddy good looks and crystal blue eyes, and winning smile which makes the young lasses of the kingdom fawn over him? Because if not, she was irritated at your (and other males in the group) preoccupation on fantasizing about beautiful and helpless womenfolk who need savin' when she just wants to play some D&D. Tone down the sexism when there are ladies present :P P.S. I'm a guy and I probably wouldn't want to have elaborate descriptions of female characters in a roomful of other guys...
Cranewings 04-09-08, 02:51 AM	Kouk, lol the princess is hardly helpless. She's a 6th level Sorcerer, two levels higher than the party. She was just beset by a lot of evil. And yes, I put a lot of discription onto a lot of the male characters.
Cranewings 04-09-08, 02:59 AM	lol I'm just sitting up reflecting on my game. You know those old posters with Conan standing on a rock face with bloody sword in hand, watching the lightening in the back ground, and ignoring the barely dressed woman, curled up at his feet? When someone says, Dungeons and Dragons, that is the image that pops in my head. I might be a little sexist. Maybe I'll applogize to her.
Mad_Jack 04-09-08, 03:24 AM	My advice would be to sit down with her sometime and mention just in a general way that she seems to be a bit dissatisfied with some of the NPCs they've met lately, and ask her what sorts of things about them she's dissatisfied with, and what sorts of things she'd like to see more of in the campaign. If you get a good conversation going about the campaign and the people in it (not revealing any of your secrets, of course, lol.), eventually she'll get around to bringing up the issues she feels are most important. This will also be an excellent opportunity, assuming you have the time for a decent conversation, to pick her brain about her ideas and expectations for her character, and maybe come up with some ideas for incorporating them into your overall story arc in some way. (You can also use it as an opportunity to get some insights into her, personally, which is always helpful for a DM.) I learned very early in my DMing career that one thing you should always do is to get each of your players alone for a one-on-one discussion so you can pick their brains about their characters and what they want out of the game. Once you understand their motivations, you can mess with them better... :D
High Octane 04-09-08, 04:03 AM	"He's handsome."/"She's beautiful." Want to make it not an issue? Then make the reference to the beauty casual and part of a longer description. The elven lady is dressed in fine but very traditional robes that are signs of her being well versed in the magical ways. She is strikingly beautiful, and her expression is friendly, though she seems oddly annoyed by your more rugged and simple tones. As DM, the less time and emphasis you put on a certain aspect, the less of an issue it is, and physical beauty should not be emphasized unless it is a situation where it is extremely relevant (such as dealing with a nymph) or a player asks about it (if their character is lecherous)
Etarnon 04-09-08, 08:12 AM	What a problem to have. Seems like they are on the trail. Plus... Your girl is hot for you, and wonders when you are gonna make your move, and why you fantasize about D&D Princesses when she is right there. Could be... I wouldn't apologize for being sexist. Be cool, act as if it doesn't matter to you what she, or anyone else thinks. Build that love / hate, until she can't stand it any more. Game on. Oh yeah, and I solve this problem in my games by using software to make a picture, hold it up: "you see...Her." She's not jealous, she's ...ask her what her problem is.
LCD2YOU 04-09-08, 08:17 AM	Wha? Just tell them straight up. If a person is that insecure, refer them to a shrink, a weight reduction center or a plastic surgeon. There are other things they can do. It's amazing what a little exercise, dressing nicely and eating good food will do to a person. Harsh? Yup but where does it say I have to be a counselor and game with people who are so unhappy with themselves?
Gentlemanic 04-09-08, 08:26 AM	Perhaps she likes you and is very jalous? Otherwise, beats me.. I usually have male NPC's/PC's. 'Cause it's a man's world! If we have women in sight I usually just discribe their armor choice, hair color and special features that matter. Most of my players don't want to take romance into the game anyway. We are more about slaying dragons, finding treasure and having manly intimidating action on tavern patrons. The dating stuff we already have to deal with so much in real life while beating up bad guys you don't get to do every day! :P
Vintar 04-09-08, 08:32 AM	You could have just described her as looking like Snow White - no one could really get mad at that.
iserith 04-09-08, 08:56 AM	Cranewings, try also to keep your pants on during descriptions of attractive NPCs. This may be what is making your player uncomfortable. Some people are just prudes.
Rebel7284 04-09-08, 10:24 AM	Most intelligent women I know would indeed be annoyed at what seems like a stereotypical princess. Perhaps she's interested in something that's actually interesting and unique? :) I guess you can talk to her, primarily because spending time with a hot woman is always nice. However, based on your description, I will agree with the posters above that it's more likely her reacting to the sexism than her being insecure.
Kobajagrande 04-09-08, 10:35 AM	Generally, I just go to the old writing trick - don't try and explain how someone looks, describe how others feel about their looks. General physical traits, simple "beautiful" added to the description, and a mention of how everyone turns to look when the person enters the room is much more effective than "blah blah blah hair blah blah skin blah blah eyes blah blah blah chest blah blah blah legs"
WilliamTanner 04-09-08, 12:54 PM	Remember that the players (by way of their characters) are the heroes of your game. If you emphasize the physical characteristics of NPC, and those are superior to your players, you are making the players less important in your game. Let's say the rogue is having a tough time with a lock. Along comes a higher level rogue who deftly cracks the lock in two seconds. Now the rogue player feels like a schmuck. Let's say Annette is sitting at the table with her 20 charisma sorceress character sheet in front of her, and you start describing a Playmate in skimpy clothing. All male heads turn away from Annette and focus on you and daydream of the goddess. Annette feels like a schmuck for coming to your game. If its a problem, have fewer female NPCs, stop describing their physical characteristics, or stop making so many NPCs with a high charisma. Average is 10-11, not 16.
Jaxgaret 04-09-08, 02:50 PM	Cranewings (CW): You see a tall human woman. She is of slender build, though perhaps on the busty side. She has blue eyes, long, brown hair, and full lips which are parted around a white smile as she looks at you. Ugliness Incarnate (UI): Why are you putting all these beautiful women in the game? CW: What do you mean? UI: Do all the female characters have to be busty bimbos? CW: I never said she was attractive. UI: But she is. CW: If that's how you're imagining her, then fine. I don't have control over your imagination. UI: ... CW: I think you're reading into things too much. Is something else bothering you here? Aaaand you win. :rofl: Ugliness Incarnate got a good chuckle out of me. Should make that a class... Requirement: Cha of less than 6.
Etarnon 04-10-08, 11:45 AM	Maybe it's just me, but If an NPC has higher strength, or higher charisma, I see it as a challenge, "He'll be tough to beat, he'll have more followers or mates" not, "Oh, now my PC is an ugly wussy wuss."
WilliamTanner 04-10-08, 12:57 PM	You are not female. Females life in a different reality, full of jealousy and social politics that is unnoticed by most males, partly because most of it goes on when men aren't around, and partly because guys just don't talk about emotional stuff with each other (or anyone for that matter).
RPJesus 04-10-08, 02:29 PM	To quote Venture Brothers; "You're gonna kill me because I had fake sex on graph paper with a girl who barely even spoke to you in real life!?" :D
1 ton ghost 04-10-08, 03:29 PM	Venture Bros: Ah, the college scene, nice! Very very apt here. I keep waiting for someone to make a crack about stepping on a d4, aka "caltrop"... There's something to be said for thicker skin when regarding the comliness of another's (skin). You gotta' give equal billing to the ladies though no matter how few there are at the table. Like I always tell my friends/PCs, "You are all equally worthless. You prove yourselves by XP and RP." It is a game, not a thinny veiled insult or perceieved sleight. Games are for fun, not intrigue and innuendo between friends. We get enough of that at work, school, home. This player just needs to distinguish between formats. One being reality, one, uh, not. As for you, not expecting you to take sensitivity training to placate an obviously fragile ego, but consider realism. If she's really putting the screws on you, when you describe the men as attractive, look her straight in the eye and fondle your dice slowly...at first. ;) When it's not taken in good humor (as it should) then the bitterness is revealed. Get this sh-t in the open if both are consenting and keep an adult forum. No unilatteral descion-making. Keep male/female physicality equal then if you think it'll help. Otherwise, don't brook any gay jokes from the guys and describe the attractive men in like fashion as the women. Simple enough. Or, if they are giving you static, ask the lead wise ass to stay late as you'd like to show him some erotic japanese lithographs or sample some fine chardonay:( . Put on some Erasure or Pet Shop Boys too... For me, concerning comely NPC descriptors/acts, I do a pretty good job at improvisation, voices, mannerisms, everything. No one gives me any sh-t cuz', well, I'm the DM for one, 2, we're all adults and above that, 3, it wastes game time which is their time and MY TIME, 4 it helps RP big time and encourages others to act the same. Pretty soon everyone is in character and the XP flows like wine. Otherwise, just use well known celebrities or images ppl are familiar w/. ie)"Sir Godfrey the romeo-smooth paladin looks like johnny depp" or something where as "His sister Princess Cora looks like Keira Knightley." So, if a gamer has a problem w/ that tell them to take it up with Universal Studios, Entertainment Weekly, or some sh-t.
annoyinglizardvoice 04-10-08, 05:07 PM	I try to describe people in technical detail and let the player minds do the deciding on wether they're attractive or not. I tend to go into more detail for more important characters (particularly if there's something significant about their appearence).
Drackthor 04-10-08, 05:27 PM	I describe comely NPC females as having "a bossom almost as ample as my supple man-boobs." I always get a laugh. But I die a little inside each time. I like this guy. :thumbsup:
ciaran 04-10-08, 08:23 PM	:rofl: Ugliness Incarnate got a good chuckle out of me. Should make that a class... Requirement: Cha of less than 6. Hagatha the Insufferable. Maybe some of class ability the opposite of the bard's fascinate? ;)
1 ton ghost 04-11-08, 01:21 PM	To that end, there was an Abyssmally Wretched or "just plain ugly" CR adjustment for NPCs in the PHBII I think. In that same vein, is it possible for PCs to get Frightful Visage or something similar to reflect monstrous appearance? I can't think of any player race of the top of my head, only an item or 2 that makes you seriously horrifying to look at, etc.
Mock26 04-12-08, 01:52 PM	You could always bring back the Comeliness statistic from the 1st edition Unearthed Arcana. Or, let your players decide on how attractive their characters are.
Tharr 04-16-08, 01:44 AM	The appearance stat is what people use because charisma became weird and basic using comeliness rules. Like some races have weird standard like check his nose out for the gnome plus nice red hat. Most elves would like smart problem solver. Prehaps the dwarf brag on his beard size. Humans back then might go for the 12 year old not 28 year old for some group. Beside some people always remind the clerics to have cure disease. There have been few descriptions of people which few people lost control for bit. People laughed course this had more kind adult real.
Auspex7 04-16-08, 01:59 AM	personally, i like to overcome any possible objections by cutting them off before they begin. in order to best do this, follow these steps: 1. identify the least attractive looking person at the table. 2. stare at them intently, so that everyone understands that you are staring at them, and singling them out. 3. say this: "ok, i am about to describe someone who is very attractive, and i don't want ANYONE at this table to whine or become self conscious about their appearance. we don't want a scene here. we just want it to be OK to talk about someone who is ridiculously good looking, because we all appreciate ridiculous good looks. so... if you feel the need to cause a scene, or to 'stand up for yourself', go ahead and just begin the process of shutting up RIGHT NOW." 4. relax. nod your head in such a way that everyone understands that you have just achieved relaxation. 5. describe the hot chick, and inflate the size of... portions of her anatomy whose appeal increases directly with relation to their size. you know... like... things that aren't hands or feet. 6. feel good about what you've done.
Mock26 04-16-08, 03:00 AM	I describe comely NPC females as having "a bossom almost as ample as my supple man-boobs." I always get a laugh. But I die a little inside each time. :rolleyes: And that is what ressurrection spells are for. Duh! :D
1 ton ghost 04-16-08, 12:21 PM	Kills me when I find gamers that use the old crutch of "My Charisma is high, therefor I am a sexy beast, attractive in all demographics, etc." -Churchill was pretty charismatic...even for an alcoholic porker. Hell of a spokeman and strategist though. -Lincoln, ugly as sin, but very "man of the people", very good Cha surely -Mother Theresa wasn't a sex bomb by any means, but look at her following and world influence. There's always a flipside; you have the Paris Hiltons of the world. Perceived physical beauty, no real Cha per se. Lohan, Spears, Kutcher, a great many others of the new privledged youth of American royalty...Can't give a public speech to save their lives, no clout outside of the entertainment industry (and even that is posturing sometimes), horrible intervews, worse acting, etc. But they're pretty. ;) I love it when time (or rehab) catches up w/ these ppl. "TV...where straight teeth in your mouth are more important the the words that come out of it." -"TV, the Drug of the Nation", Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy In game, employing Cha as a measure of looks is bunk. Often those that look at the high numeric value as a measure of attractiveness are often lacking themselves IRL time to time. Those that know better understand it's an amalgamation of social nuances, symmetry, cultural norms, social mores, race, class, age, breeding, etc. Not 1 set of numbers out of 6... -Even dwarves w/ low Cha's might be attractive to other dwarves given fullness of their beards, ability to drink kegs of ale, reactionary outlooks, etc. Dwarves w/ high Cha might still be rebuffed by smolderingly beautiful humans of the same align just because of the racial differences despite the estimation of a "smart match" numericaly. -A socerer of high Cha and physical beauty might find great ire w/ an equally attractive wizard given their deviating outlooks on their mutual Art. That same hot human sorcerer might be enamored of a common gnome given their smattering of (Sp) and so forth. -A refined, high Cha, gentile knight could be the hunk of town 'x', but in the frozen wastes where Barbarians are the norm, all his good looks are for naught cuz' the women find him to be a dandy who can't even skin an elk, etc. All his Cha is meaningless when decidedly more rural nuances are revered over courtly charm, "useless knowledges", etc. No easy way gauge it beyond RP. Cha alone won't/shouldn't suffice. It's a cop out. Yet another reason to immerse oneself cuz' if you're relying on a number to woo a guy/girl, well, it's speaking volumes IRL as well as in game. It's just not that b/w. Some people actually have to use charm and wit, not just T&A, a BMW, botox, etc... I remember Comliness and all from back in the day, but even that doesn't do this justice. But, such is the desire to have physical attractiveness graphed out that ppl want to express it quantitatively. What do we do then? It's often contingent on where you are, your class, race, a million variables, but no one wants to slag game play to figure out if "Brutus the tank gets some ass tonight cuz' he went to the coiffer and had the cleric heal his wounds so he's not scared up to look like a jigsaw puzzle."
Cuindless 04-16-08, 01:19 PM	While you've given some great examples of eloquent ugly people, the PHB specifically states that charisma is in part based on physical appearance. So, in D&D at least, the "beautiful-but-ugly-inside-ers" of the world would still have a little bit going for them, charisma-wise. And why not? Charisma determines an NPC's reaction to the character and/or creature, which is based on appearance to some degree. Even babies respond better to stereotypically "beautiful" people, at least according to some studies.
1 ton ghost 04-16-08, 02:21 PM	While you've given some great examples of eloquent ugly people, the PHB specifically states that charisma is in part based on physical appearance. Well said to be sure, though I didn't imply that it was only a measure of personal magnetism and force of personality. I understand, accept, and use the fact that is represents A DEGREE of physical beauty. I just find contention w/ those that say, "High Cha = attractive." A maxim for dumbasses, or more commonly, compensating IRL. Cha is the most open-ended of the 6. Hard to dissect and over 3 editions, no one has really gotten it down just right. I mean, even the Int vs. Wis debate has more grounding and finality than this. [/QUOTE]So, in D&D at least, the "beautiful-but-ugly-inside-ers" of the world would still have a little bit going for them, charisma-wise. And why not? Charisma determines an NPC's reaction to the character and/or creature, which is based on appearance to some degree.[/QUOTE] To an extent, yes. People often respect vast wealth and privledge as well as a swath of ofther superficial niceties and luxuries the world offers. Have's and have-nots. There are no definitive "this" or "that" spheres of influence when dealing w/ this as it's a qualitative asepct, not a quantitative one. Measuring physical attraction is very difficult. Beauty is in the eye of..., One man's trash..., When in Rome, etc. etc. etc. Like love and hate, there are so many forms thereof. IMO, Cha (or Diplomacy) isn't the final arbiter of NPC reaction though I do not precluse the ability stat or ranks in the later. A meaure to be sure of. If you're a very lawful dwarf at an elven gala (default CG align), I'm gonna' put you at a penalty on the Reaction Chart. You could be a leper in a village which most would despise, but if you fend off attacking monsters I'm definetely moving you up from Unfriendly at least. It's all relative. Like alot of feats, gear, etc., it's situational and blanket policies don't work well for this end IMO. But yes, you are correct to a degree in that Cha represents AN ASPECT of appearance/beauty/something. It's just what 1 demographic might find endearing, another would be repulsed by. -Lip disks and tribal scarification can be seen as quite beautiful in some African tribes but will surely get some disapproving stares in corporate America. And we're all humans too, not elves and dwarves and largely similiar in moral outlook (alignment). -Pale skin is often an attractive quality among alot of goths despite the predilections of many people in the mainstream to tan like clockwork. etc. Even babies respond better to stereotypically "beautiful" people, at least according to some studies. You're totally correct actually. That's because in generic psychological absolutes, symmetry is beauty. Just look through any popular magazine, film, whatever. Babies cannot identify language enough beyond tone and inflection to discern "who's a good speaker" and they are ignorant of poise, tact, the subtleties and social acrobatics of social relationships. Hence, physical appearance, usually through symmetry, is all they have. We are genetically predisposed to it (symmetry) as well as certain shapes and colors. That sense, in many degrees, is hardwired into us in many cases in our DNA. Certain works of art, though not what many would call "relevant" or even "good" were construed as successes as they employed just the right amount of geometric shapes/tones/texture/color/etc that it imparted a peculiar "pleasing asthetic value" that is hard to measure. For people, some forms of physical beauty follow in that respect, it's just engaging them in game is slightly impossible and just a little horrible.
weepingminotaur 04-17-08, 05:06 PM	Uh, instead of jumping to conclusions about what might be bothering her, try, you know, talking to her. Find out what's on her mind. This is a gaming concern like any other. If one of your players isn't happy about some aspect of the game, it's your job as DM to address her concern (within reasonable limits). Oh, and speaking as a male, if every female NPC we encountered was stunningly beautiful, I'd be quite irritated. A DM who projects an unattainable ideal female body type/look onto every female NPC the party encounters is going to ruin my idea of D&D fun pretty damn quickly.
RPJesus 04-17-08, 07:29 PM	Oh, and speaking as a male, if every female NPC we encountered was stunningly beautiful, I'd be quite irritated. A DM who projects an unattainable ideal female body type/look onto every female NPC the party encounters is going to ruin my idea of D&D fun pretty damn quickly. Actually might be a good basis for a creepy stepford wives style campaign though.
weepingminotaur 04-18-08, 08:23 AM	Actually might be a good basis for a creepy stepford wives style campaign though. Heh, neat idea.