Average AC for level 6 character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Average AC for level 6 character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kobold Paladin
07-28-07, 04:42 PM I am wondering what the average AC for level 6 character of the varous types of characters are. I dont mean someone who is doing an impossable to hit build but isnt being stupid about it either.

A few of my players are being all Style over Stats about character appearence and well, they are being cut down by level 5 Warriors.

I dont want to trust my gut instinct on it because when I play character I focus on high armor class and % miss chances in my builds so I think I might be off, I mean the first 3 feats I give npc melee types are generally Weapon Focus, Shield Specialization and Effective Defender and if they are human minimum 14 in Dex before racial modifiers (I use elite array for all stock npcs).
CrossBlade
07-28-07, 04:49 PM How were your players able to pick stats?
You're the DM, ask to see thier character sheets and find the average for thier AC and adjust accordingly.
Why do ALL your npcs have those feats? Isn't that a little metagamish? Why would a wizard be concerned about dodging? Wouldn't it want to up it's magic power? Wouldn't a barbarian be more concerned to up it's damage...or health points than dodging more? Variety is the key for npc encounters!

Not to offend you, but if your players are going for style, and you're optimizing... you seem to be going DM vs. Players when your players want to have fun and do fun, heroic deeds.
Dragonsblood
07-28-07, 04:53 PM There's not a whole lot you can do at level 6 without going way out of the way to make a high AC build. I figure a heavy armor wearing class like fighter or cleric would have +1 full plate with +1 from dex, and maybe a +1 shield so 20-23 AC. A light armor class like rogue or ranger would have a +1 chain shirt, with maybe 18 dex after race, and might be a halfling giving an additional 1 AC, so 19-20 AC sounds about right. Wizard types should have mage armor going and maybe +2 from dex for about 16 AC.

Keep in mind though, that a level 5 warrior is a CR 4 encounter NOT including your buffed up feat selection and stats. Just two of them is EL 6, making it challenging. 3 of them is EL 7.2, making it very hard. You might need to reread the section on challenge.
Nephlite
07-28-07, 04:56 PM I am wondering what the average AC for level 6 character of the varous types of characters are. I dont mean someone who is doing an impossable to hit build but isnt being stupid about it either.

A few of my players are being all Style over Stats about character appearence and well, they are being cut down by level 5 Warriors.

I dont want to trust my gut instinct on it because when I play character I focus on high armor class and % miss chances in my builds so I think I might be off, I mean the first 3 feats I give npc melee types are generally Weapon Focus, Shield Specialization and Effective Defender and if they are human minimum 14 in Dex before racial modifiers (I use elite array for all stock npcs).

Level 6?
Good AC: 15 +1.5 (Level)
Average AC: 12 +1.5 (Level)
Bad AC: 10 + 1.5 (Level)

Definition:
Good AC is you can be hit few times by CR equal to your character level.
Average AC is you can be hit some times by CR equal to your character level.
Bad AC is you can be hit many times by CR equal to your character level.

So level 6:
Good AC: 24
Average AC: 21
Bad AC: 19

Reason is average hit for CR 6 is good enough to hit Good AC a few times, Average AC some times, and Bad AC many times.

An example NPC Fighter in DM Guide (pg 117) has Melee hit +10/+5 with AC 22. NPCs in DMG are Average usually.

He has a 40% chance to hit himself with his first hit.

Against these guidelines:
Good AC: Hit him 30% chance of time with first.
Average AC: Hit him 45% chance of time with first.
Bad AC: Hit him 55% chance of time with first.

These Guidelinnes are about 80% accurate as far as AC will go.
Kobold Paladin
07-28-07, 05:02 PM Why do ALL your npcs have those feats? Isn't that a little metagamish? Why would a wizard be concerned about dodging? Wouldn't it want to up it's magic power? Wouldn't a barbarian be more concerned to up it's damage...or health points than dodging more? Variety is the key for npc encounters!

Looks like someone didnt put any ranks into Read/Write (English) because I said melee types.....

Also its called Standerized Training within martial organizations, most archers trained by the same people will also have nearly identical builds as well.

Thanks Dragonsblood and Nephite for intellegent posts.

Keep in mind though, that a level 5 warrior is a CR 4 encounter NOT including your buffed up feat selection and stats. Just two of them is EL 6, making it challenging. 3 of them is EL 7.2, making it very hard. You might need to reread the section on challenge.

Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party.
zorgling25
07-28-07, 05:08 PM Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party.

Keep in mind that combat is designed for 5 encounters a day. Simply put, the first encounter of the day isn't supposed to threaten the party (exception being BBEG-style encouters). Its on the 4th or 5th one in which they're supposed to start feeling the wear and tear. Judging by the fact that your party has two arcanists, I can easily see them running down their party power by encounter number 3 or 4.
Dragonsblood
07-28-07, 05:13 PM Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party.

"Challenge" I've found can be very subjective. If your idea of challenging is knocking out half the party and using up nearly all of the PC's daily resources, then yes this is a challenge. If you accept the DMG supported definition, they should be able to take on 4-5 of these encounters a day. But if they can in fact take on this encounter 4-5 times a day, they must have 18s in all of their stats and level 10 wealth :p
Sroblin
07-28-07, 05:14 PM Out of curiosity, what is the AC for the characters in question?
D.A.Dervish
07-28-07, 05:29 PM If their damage output is high, as you say, "due to 2 Arcane Blasters" they have already lost the game.

Not that it is in any way whatsoever no matter what side of the DM screen you're on, a competition. Go easy with those tesosterone impulses, I know that I have a problem with that at times.
zorgling25
07-28-07, 05:38 PM If their damage output is high, as you say, "due to 2 Arcane Blasters" they have already lost the game.

Heh, thats the second time on these boards that I've read a post where someone has "lost" at D&D.
zelf_gale
07-28-07, 05:45 PM I usually see it as:

20 + EL and up for tanks
20 + EL to 10 + EL for armored support
10 + EL and below for unarmored support

Notice that this is based off the EL (Encounter Level) not the character's level. If you have to send your group against above or below average encounters, that is the benchmark that determines how effective their armor is.

If they are being cut down by level 5 warriors, drop the warriors level to 4, or remove one warrior from the opposing group.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kobold Paladin 07-28-07, 04:42 PM	I am wondering what the average AC for level 6 character of the varous types of characters are. I dont mean someone who is doing an impossable to hit build but isnt being stupid about it either. A few of my players are being all Style over Stats about character appearence and well, they are being cut down by level 5 Warriors. I dont want to trust my gut instinct on it because when I play character I focus on high armor class and % miss chances in my builds so I think I might be off, I mean the first 3 feats I give npc melee types are generally Weapon Focus, Shield Specialization and Effective Defender and if they are human minimum 14 in Dex before racial modifiers (I use elite array for all stock npcs).
CrossBlade 07-28-07, 04:49 PM	How were your players able to pick stats? You're the DM, ask to see thier character sheets and find the average for thier AC and adjust accordingly. Why do ALL your npcs have those feats? Isn't that a little metagamish? Why would a wizard be concerned about dodging? Wouldn't it want to up it's magic power? Wouldn't a barbarian be more concerned to up it's damage...or health points than dodging more? Variety is the key for npc encounters! Not to offend you, but if your players are going for style, and you're optimizing... you seem to be going DM vs. Players when your players want to have fun and do fun, heroic deeds.
Dragonsblood 07-28-07, 04:53 PM	There's not a whole lot you can do at level 6 without going way out of the way to make a high AC build. I figure a heavy armor wearing class like fighter or cleric would have +1 full plate with +1 from dex, and maybe a +1 shield so 20-23 AC. A light armor class like rogue or ranger would have a +1 chain shirt, with maybe 18 dex after race, and might be a halfling giving an additional 1 AC, so 19-20 AC sounds about right. Wizard types should have mage armor going and maybe +2 from dex for about 16 AC. Keep in mind though, that a level 5 warrior is a CR 4 encounter NOT including your buffed up feat selection and stats. Just two of them is EL 6, making it challenging. 3 of them is EL 7.2, making it very hard. You might need to reread the section on challenge.
Nephlite 07-28-07, 04:56 PM	I am wondering what the average AC for level 6 character of the varous types of characters are. I dont mean someone who is doing an impossable to hit build but isnt being stupid about it either. A few of my players are being all Style over Stats about character appearence and well, they are being cut down by level 5 Warriors. I dont want to trust my gut instinct on it because when I play character I focus on high armor class and % miss chances in my builds so I think I might be off, I mean the first 3 feats I give npc melee types are generally Weapon Focus, Shield Specialization and Effective Defender and if they are human minimum 14 in Dex before racial modifiers (I use elite array for all stock npcs). Level 6? Good AC: 15 +1.5 (Level) Average AC: 12 +1.5 (Level) Bad AC: 10 + 1.5 (Level) Definition: Good AC is you can be hit few times by CR equal to your character level. Average AC is you can be hit some times by CR equal to your character level. Bad AC is you can be hit many times by CR equal to your character level. So level 6: Good AC: 24 Average AC: 21 Bad AC: 19 Reason is average hit for CR 6 is good enough to hit Good AC a few times, Average AC some times, and Bad AC many times. An example NPC Fighter in DM Guide (pg 117) has Melee hit +10/+5 with AC 22. NPCs in DMG are Average usually. He has a 40% chance to hit himself with his first hit. Against these guidelines: Good AC: Hit him 30% chance of time with first. Average AC: Hit him 45% chance of time with first. Bad AC: Hit him 55% chance of time with first. These Guidelinnes are about 80% accurate as far as AC will go.
Kobold Paladin 07-28-07, 05:02 PM	Why do ALL your npcs have those feats? Isn't that a little metagamish? Why would a wizard be concerned about dodging? Wouldn't it want to up it's magic power? Wouldn't a barbarian be more concerned to up it's damage...or health points than dodging more? Variety is the key for npc encounters! Looks like someone didnt put any ranks into Read/Write (English) because I said melee types..... Also its called Standerized Training within martial organizations, most archers trained by the same people will also have nearly identical builds as well. Thanks Dragonsblood and Nephite for intellegent posts. Keep in mind though, that a level 5 warrior is a CR 4 encounter NOT including your buffed up feat selection and stats. Just two of them is EL 6, making it challenging. 3 of them is EL 7.2, making it very hard. You might need to reread the section on challenge. Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party.
zorgling25 07-28-07, 05:08 PM	Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party. Keep in mind that combat is designed for 5 encounters a day. Simply put, the first encounter of the day isn't supposed to threaten the party (exception being BBEG-style encouters). Its on the 4th or 5th one in which they're supposed to start feeling the wear and tear. Judging by the fact that your party has two arcanists, I can easily see them running down their party power by encounter number 3 or 4.
Dragonsblood 07-28-07, 05:13 PM	Actually I need to use at least 4 of said warriors supported by a caster for counter spelling to even threaten the party, their damage output is very high for their levels due to 2 Arcane Blasters in the party. "Challenge" I've found can be very subjective. If your idea of challenging is knocking out half the party and using up nearly all of the PC's daily resources, then yes this is a challenge. If you accept the DMG supported definition, they should be able to take on 4-5 of these encounters a day. But if they can in fact take on this encounter 4-5 times a day, they must have 18s in all of their stats and level 10 wealth :p
Sroblin 07-28-07, 05:14 PM	Out of curiosity, what is the AC for the characters in question?
D.A.Dervish 07-28-07, 05:29 PM	If their damage output is high, as you say, "due to 2 Arcane Blasters" they have already lost the game. Not that it is in any way whatsoever no matter what side of the DM screen you're on, a competition. Go easy with those tesosterone impulses, I know that I have a problem with that at times.
zorgling25 07-28-07, 05:38 PM	If their damage output is high, as you say, "due to 2 Arcane Blasters" they have already lost the game. Heh, thats the second time on these boards that I've read a post where someone has "lost" at D&D.
zelf_gale 07-28-07, 05:45 PM	I usually see it as: 20 + EL and up for tanks 20 + EL to 10 + EL for armored support 10 + EL and below for unarmored support Notice that this is based off the EL (Encounter Level) not the character's level. If you have to send your group against above or below average encounters, that is the benchmark that determines how effective their armor is. If they are being cut down by level 5 warriors, drop the warriors level to 4, or remove one warrior from the opposing group.