Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LockeDM 06-15-07, 03:18 PM	howdy, my campaign has been going solid for about a year now. The party has a young NPC sorc who they adopted when his father was killed. My future plan for the campaign revolve around him becoming a villain. Part of the set up for that involves his trying and failing to get his father resurrected. They brought their monk back to life a while back, so the spell true resurrection has to stay in the game. The party is high level (13-15) and multiple churches owe them big time, so I can't just tell them no one is willing to do it. Anyway, I'm just looking for ideas for why the resurrection cant happen. All I really want is something that wont make the player say "aww, thats a dumb reason." THanks, Locke
Eerongal 06-15-07, 03:24 PM	True Resurrection Conjuration (Healing) Level: Clr 9 Casting Time: 10 minutes This spell functions like raise dead, except that you can resurrect a creature that has been dead for as long as 10 years per caster level. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method). Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of level (or Constitution points) or prepared spells. You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures. Even true resurrection can’t restore to life a creature who has died of old age. Material Component A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 25,000 gp. From Raise dead: In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. Come up with something via the bolded parts. Did he die of old age? Or for some reason does his soul not want to return, like has his life been as complete as he wants it to be? [edit: Wins! hehe :P]
Stumm_Dolch 06-15-07, 03:25 PM	Don't forget that the recipient must be willing to return. Maybe the father has finally found rest/peace in the afterlife. [edit: darn you Eerongal >< hehe]
Edana 06-15-07, 03:31 PM	How did the father die? Were the PC's present at the time? How much do they know about the death? If they don't know circumstances around the father's death, there are spells like Trap the Soul that can prevent the ressurection. From the 3.0 Arms and Equipment guide, there's the balor's sword of soul stealing (or something close to that, don't have my books atm), which amongst it's other properties traps the soul of anyone it kills with a vorpal strike. You could create a similar weapon that he was killed by, and now the gem containing his soul has been traded to a devil or demon. There's also a material in there called Thinaun (again, might be spelled wrong), which does a similar thing. I'm not sure if that material prevents resurrection or not. Some of those can work even if the PC's were there if the killer got away. There's also always the possibility that the father just plain doesn't want to come back. If he was good, he's probably enjoying the afterlife, and if there's no compelling reason to return he probably wouldn't. If he was evil, maybe he's risen a fair amount in power in the infernal realms and doesn't want to give that up when he's now more powerful than he ever was in life. (This is actually one of my more favorite ones ;)) Edit: I see a couple people beat me to the willing to return option. ;)
Lazigothi 06-15-07, 03:45 PM	Barring the above text highlighted in bold, answering the question would require more background on the father. Without knowing this, I'd guess the father has done something that would make the church reluctant to provide the service. This scenario, however, would make it possible for another church that would offer the service under certain, negotiated terms. For example: Father defrocked the Church's Vestil Virgin. Either for this disgrace, or of the Virgin has maintained her station falsely and wishes to keep this secret, the truth must remain buried. Maybe there's another kind of Church secret they wish to keep silent. Father failed a quest in the Church's service, or commited a crime against them. Church excericises their right to only raise whomever meets their tough criteria of extreme heroism. They could require a petition of the people, signed by a certain rank in a local clergy and then submitted for approval by the ruling hierarchy of the faith, requiring 3/4 majority approval. The red tape, and or likelihood of the father actually meriting or meeting such conditions have frustrated the son.
LockeDM 06-15-07, 04:38 PM	thanks for the input so far, the father was a fisherman, he was killed by pirates in front of the pc's plus my npc. he could be a sorc if that helps. About the not wanting to return thing, ill use it if theres nothing else, but id rather something more interesting. Locke
Dazzer 06-15-07, 04:55 PM	Here's an interesting one! Your young NPC is a sorc correct? High charisma, very confident of his own abilities, confident in his own magic. He develops a spell (add it to his list) of his highest spell level which attempts to emulate Raise Dead, Resurrection, or even True Resurrection (if high enough level). Now, sorcerers aren't very good at casting this kind of spell, and so it is likely a little different from the standard raise dead spells. It might even have a 10% chance of outright failure. (or perhaps 70% + 1%/level chance of working) Then, since it failed miserably, the job is done :cool: Personally, I would have the sorcerer deluded by an evil priest who says "I will bring your father back, just give me the following components!!" Then the priest raises the father back as an UNDEAD *shock horror* and the sorcerer goes quite insane and still loves his father regardless of his form, and now the PC's who must destroy this undead (because...it needs to feed...constantly...preferably on innocent commoners...or commoner babies.) Must also deal with their deluded friend. The sorcerer isn't evil, he's deluded, tricked and emotionally distraught. The PC's will likely have (if good) kill the undead being, and knock out the sorcerer, and then attempt to fix him up (mentally). This may or may not succeed, that's up to you. Perhaps the sorcerer simply goes more insane? Or perhaps they do fix him up and they attain a new trustworthy spell caster friend?
Derren S. 06-15-07, 05:03 PM	The father is already alive again. He was not really killed but his soul transfered to his secret laboratory where his clone grew. Sadly he just casted the spell a few days ago and the clone was not ready yet. And after the clone was fully grown the party was already away and he had no clue were they were and other problems to deal with.
buzzsawl 06-15-07, 05:21 PM	You could always make the father have become a ghost after the pirates killed him. Either he had some unfinished business or the violent way he died caused him to stick around. Can't resurrect something that's not entirely dead. Plus you wouldn't have to explain why an attempt to resurrect didn't work. It will just simply fail. Also might give your NPC a little more push towards evil if his father is not only slaughtered, but undead as well.
CryoSilver 06-15-07, 05:39 PM	There are many ways to prevent someone coming back. Trap the Soul and Imprisonment are 2 ways to get rid of someone without killing them. Bringing them back as any form of undead also works. There are several soul-trapping items bouncing around, like that Khyber sword in Eberron. Barghests can eat souls. The sould could be dominated once it becomes a petitioner; it is no longer "free" to return. Remember, if the father was Good, he's in (The Seven) Heaven(s) now. Would he REALLY want to leave Heaven to come back to the crappy Material Plane? The cheapest and easiest for a mortal enemy would be the undead thing. Drop a couple hundred gp on onyx, make the father a skellie, and no rezz for you!
Noon 06-15-07, 06:06 PM	Anyway, I'm just looking for ideas for why the resurrection cant happen. All I really want is something that wont make the player say "aww, thats a dumb reason." Ask your players for a reason it couldn't happen? This doesn't have to be your job.
syrinth 06-15-07, 07:36 PM	I use a rule where resurrection is VERY risky. Casting the spell means that it's possible for the soul of the deceased to be swallowed up into the void and lost forever. It has some more extensive rules but that'd take ages to post >_> Just make it too dangerous for the father's soul to cross back.
Voxaminer 06-15-07, 08:36 PM	Making the father undead (either a skeleton or a ghost) won't prevent true resurection so long as the party can destroy the ghost. A few ideas: The Father Sold his soul to a demon lord in exchange for a good catch of fish a few years back and the demon lord won't let him return. The father is paranoid and doesn't consent to being resurected for fear that the pirates are behind the resurection in order to torment him for information. Leave it Utterly unexplained: Your players will either give up or keep guessing as to the cause of their difficulties resurecting him. If one of these is a good idea steal it from them and "reveal" that that was what happened from the get go. Have the father be a level 1 commoner with low Hp/con who can't survive a resurection (might not work for true res) Have the material component for the resurection (pricey diamond) stolen (doubling the cost) or subtly corrupted in a way that causes the spell to fail or even destroys the soul. Lastly just try telling your players that they shouldn't raise the father for story purposes. Some groups will take this well otherw really won't it's a judgement call.
MarkB 06-15-07, 08:45 PM	There's a nasty weapon in the Eberron Campaign Setting called the Keeper's Fang, which is a sword with a khyber dragonshard in the pommel. If you slay someone while the sword is active, their soul is trapped in the dragonshard. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt a similar item to another setting. Maybe the pirate who slew the PC's father had such a weapon, and didn't even know what it was (pillaged booty), and the only way to resurrect the character is to retrieve the sword and free the soul.
tylara67 06-15-07, 08:56 PM	thanks for the input so far, the father was a fisherman, he was killed by pirates in front of the pc's plus my npc. he could be a sorc if that helps. About the not wanting to return thing, ill use it if theres nothing else, but id rather something more interesting. Locke What happened to the pirates after they killed him? Were they defeated by the PCs, did they kill more people, or did they get away? If they got away, a thinuan (Complete Warrior) weapon might have been used to kill him, which would trap his soul in the weapon (until someone else died while touching the weapon) and make resurrecting him without the weapon impossible. If that weapon was then lost overboard in a storm...
buzzsawl 06-16-07, 05:00 AM	Making the father undead (either a skeleton or a ghost) won't prevent true resurection so long as the party can destroy the ghost. Well, yes...but as long as you don't outright tell the characters that that's why true rez failed, they still have to spend a good while figuring out the specifics and then tracking him down. Just give them more world effecting problems to deal with. Or give them a serious lack of cash. I hear True Ressurections can get expensive. :evillaugh
Optimized_Commoner 06-16-07, 12:52 PM	Perhaps the priest that they get to perform the resurrection is corrupt and lost his powers for alignment violations. He's faking that he still has his powers and charging a fortune for minor miracles, providing some special effects with the magic items he owns. He agrees to perform the resurrection spell for enough money to run off and start a new life far away. He fakes the spell and then lies to them saying that "his soul is unwilling to return" but still takes the money. Perhaps the young boy's first evil act could be killing the priest after he discovers the true story of what happened. Or the failed resurrection could lead to his hatred of the church and deity, so his villainy is mainly focussed against "punishing" the church.
Yoshisune 06-22-07, 12:25 PM	Perhaps try having someone else already have brought the father back from the dead, as to join the ranks of some evil cleric. Perhaps the NPC finds out about this and is swayed to help out the cleric who convinces him to betray his friends if the cleric "promises" to give him his father back. Since if the clerics army is strong enough, the party might have a hard time fighting off the undead masses. Just an idea
Werral 06-22-07, 01:00 PM	Maybe he was an outsider only no-one knew. Not even him.