Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PerennialRook 09-01-07, 02:55 AM	I'm designing an encounter that I need a little feedback on. I have a Satyr that I changed a little bit. He is corrupted, looks like he hasn't slept in ages, and, rather than any of his normal charming abilities, he rebukes as a cleric of a level equal to his monster HD, allowing him to bolster undead as a 5th level cleric. Also, he can animate skeletons from the corpses of the dead. The characters will be going into the encounter fully rested, stocked, and expecting undead (of another sort). They have already encountered other corrupted fey. The combat may never happen, dependent upon the preceding social interaction with the unstable fey. If combat ensues (and I expect it will), it will include an anchored huge skeleton (burnt tree) with a 15 ft. reach, which the satyr will stay within, a skeletal (burnt) dryad, and a handful of normal skeletons. The satyr has two levels of monk and the Spring Attack feat (it seemed a natural progression of his feats). Stopping the satyr (whether they kill him or stop him from playing) will de-animate the skeletons (this should be obvious, since its pipes raised the skeletons). The party will have six members of second level, including a monk, warmage, druid, ranger, rogue, and cleric. This should be sufficient to take out the satyr. One of my concerns is how many skeletons to include in the encounter. My thoughts are to include 1.5 per PC, for a total of 9 skeletons, and an overall total of 12 monsters. The tree won't be moving, nor will the satyr (for the most part), so good tactics should be able to take care of the skeletons. I may just have the dryad skeleton dance with the music unless attacked (which will provoke the wrath of the satyr). This all sounds good, until you realize that, according to the DMG, the skeletons alone are a CR 3 encounter, add to that a CR 2 (dryad), 3 (tree), and 5 (satyr), I should slaughter them. The dryad isn't fighting unless provoked, the tree can't move (is easily avoided), and the satyr has to play to maintain the skeletons. Am i just asking to kill my PC's here? -Preston
tstone0 09-01-07, 03:29 AM	I've always considered TPK's to be somewhat against the concept of the game and what it's trying to accomplish. As such, I've never actually run through a TPK in my games. That being said, my players are usually rather intelligent, and I've never truly run into a scenario which has killed more than one or two of them at a time (usually due to bad rolls) despite genuinely trying to stack the deck against them, and even presenting them with what I thought were unwinnable scenarios. They even managed once to defeat a banshee at level 11. So while CR can be accurate, talented players can overcome some surprising odds. From my own experience, my npc's usually find reason enough not to blatently kill off characters if possible. After all, if the pc's are supposed to represent brave and exceptional individuals, they don't deserve to be dispatched suddenly in a callous manner. I'm probably a softie though. Concerning the actual CR's of your encounter, it's likely that they will have trouble if they're not really sharp about how to adapt to surprise scenarios. If they're quick on their toes, it should be a pleasing encounter for them... in my thinking. One idea might be to slightly increase the number of skeletons, however have them all be present at once, if that seems appropriate to you. Perhaps describe them as they come together from the ground of the ruined forest, and how his frenzied playing draws the bones through the thick undergrowth, and as a result have the skeletons attack in two (or more) waves. That may make them more manageable and less threatening (less in operation at a time), but not completely dumb down the encounter or remove it's scope. Good luck to you! Hope some of this was helpful.
pmurray@bigpond.com 09-01-07, 03:52 AM	and as a result have the skeletons attack in two (or more) waves. That may make them more manageable and less threatening Similarly, alter the terrain so that the PC don't have to deal with all the skeletons at once. Provide terrain that works like a wall, or a corner, so that the meatshields can effectively protect the casters.
MareltEkiran 09-01-07, 04:05 AM	I agree that you should have the Satyr bolster them, otherwise, the Cleric would turn all of them into dust without even trying. However, make it obvious that he's doing so. The Cleric's player will resent having to spend several turns turning without any effect. However, have the Skeletons advance a little. Have them advance through a narrow pathway or gorge. So that the party has to focus on the skeletons first, before taking on the other three. Think of it as two separate encounters. In fact, don't even tempt them to attack the other three next. The build of the party matters quite a bit. Skeletons are stupid, so they go for whatever is most available to them. If the Cleric, Druid and Ranger have pumped up their AC a bit, they should be almost impossible to hit for the skeletons and have a fair amount of HP to stand up to the few d6's of damage that do go through. On the other hand, if they are low AC, then the party will have trouble with staying alive long enough, because with enough skeletons, that's still quite a few slashes going their way. Weapons are important. A character with a bludgeoning weapon will be fine. If not, they are doomed. So the Cleric's mace and possibly the Druid's Shillelagh will be the primary damage dealers here. The monk should be fine, but stunning fist doesn't work and monks don't have much staying power. Expect the Rogue and the Ranger to be useless here. I expect the Warmage to take out one skeleton per spell that he casts, with a little bit of luck. The Druid should also have a companion, which will be of use if it has a good bite attack. So if we add it up... Cleric with decent AC, a mace (or similar) and using one spell on buffing or healing: Three skeletons down before getting in trouble. Less if not focussed on defense. Nearly useless without bludgeoning. Druid: Two skeletons if using a club or staff. Can also ease fight with things like Entangle, perhaps combined with Magic Stone. Druid's Companion: Two skeletons if somewhat optimized for this fight. A wolf will do. Warmage: 1 skeleton per spell. Depends on how many spells she wants to spend. Monk: 2-3 skeletons before getting in trouble. Perhaps more if decent stats and decent AC. Ranger: Useless... unless smart enough to pack a bludgeoning as backup. In that case, two. Rogue: Useless... can at best function as meatshield fodder. Perhaps add a little damage if using a bludgeoning weapon. So 9-10 skeletons would likely exhaust them a fair bit. The Warmage, Cleric and Druid would have a one or two spells left each, not counting cantrips. They'd likely also have lost some HP in the process. However, the skeletons themselves are likely something they can take without too much trouble, assuming they use good tactics. Second phase... they are pretty much doomed. Satyr and Dryad both have DR 5/Cold Iron. So unless your setting has Cold Iron weapons lying around in the local supermarket, I doubt any of these characters has any reliable way of dealing damage to these creatures. I mean, sure... a 1d8 weapon + a bit of STR would occasionally deal between 1 and 5 damage to them, but the Satyr would have an AC of at least 16 (assuming you only slapped two monk levels on there and left the rest as is), which is likely to be problematic to hit. The only class in there with full BAB is the Ranger and he is not likely to have effective weapons here. The party has about 33 damage to wear down, which may take a while, especially since they wouldn't be able to approach it without taking more beatings. And the Satyr can just keep attacking without much danger to itself. I'm not even counting the contributions of the Dryad here. Sure, the Warmage may be able to add a few spells, but they will allow either saves or demand a ranged touch attack, which at this level may well miss. So expect a few spells to be wasted or have a lessened effect. So my likely prediction is that the party will wipe out the skeletons, take some beatings from Satyr, Dryad and Tree and then retreat (if they are smart). That's not necessarily a bad thing. Any adventuring party has to know when to fold them. Just don't make the battle appear too urgent and leave a route of escape.
Dragonsblood 09-01-07, 04:25 AM	Doesn't sound too tough. And if it gets rough enough the PCs will always have the option of retreating from the biggest threats. The biggest concern with low level PCs is hit points. Can any of these bad guys drop the PCs in a couple of hits? If not, you should be good to go.
PerennialRook 09-01-07, 05:50 AM	Second phase... they are pretty much doomed. Satyr and Dryad both have DR 5/Cold Iron. Not quite true. Ember (the Dryad) loses her DR in the conversion over to a skeleton, and is, in fact, little more than a 4HD skeleton (with a 24 Dex). Also, skeletons only deal 1d4+1 damage with each claw, and only 1d4 in the case of Ember. The oak tree only does 1d8 damage. And while the rogue and ranger may not be well equipped to handle undead, Illehandir is not undead, and is vulnerable to their attacks. The encounter happens in the middle of a city which has burnt to the ground, of which the tree was the center. Illihandir, the corrupted satyr, mourns the death of Ember, the dryad. The skeletons rise from the slain townsfolk. Also in the town are a few fire elementals (not in the same encounter), spawned from the enormous fire, and a vampire spawn crawling around somewhere. Illehandir is a twisted shell of his former self, hardened where once he was delightsome, his smiles now as hollow as his bone carved pipes. He is a disgruntled soldier in a war beyond the comprehension of the PC's at this point, and is reconsidering his life at the loss of a beloved friend. Should the PC's avoid incurring his wrath, he could be a great insight into the strange happenings in the world around them. His alliances run deep, and it is more than likely that his addiction to the corruption will triumph over any rebellion, but in this moment of reflection he is merely a being who has lost meaning in his life. This may make him more deadly if the players do not finish him now and end his mortal misery. The tree itself is set within a labyrinth of thorn bushes, so it should be rather interesting to see how the party uses terrain to their advantage. The inner cloister of the labyrinth, where Ember resided within her tree, was a place of the last stand, hence the scattered bodies. Remains can also be found within the labyrinth, so retreat may not be a simple task, but funnel tactics will work in the 5' wide paths. -Preston
ZimTsu 09-01-07, 03:10 PM	If your PCs have a way to silence the satyr, or otherwise keep him from playing his harp, the skeletons are harmless. You could provide a way for the players to do this (but don't make it obvious).That way, they can finish the encounter without having to fight all the skeletons, but it's still challenging in a puzzle-solving way.
PhaedrusXY 09-01-07, 05:05 PM	The vampire spawn could be more trouble than this entire troupe, if the cleric fails to turn him. ;)