Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zenrak 06-28-07, 01:54 PM	I want make a lizard wizard NPC. Yes, an awakened lizard who just happen to learn magic. A few questions though... * How much would a maximized Awaken spell cost? * An awakened lizard with 1 wizard level, that would make him what character level? * Keeping a spellbook... going to need a solution for that one. * Familiar (This is going to be interesting) * Anything I'm forgetting? Thanks :D
BW0222 06-28-07, 02:11 PM	Zenrak, I want make a lizard wizard NPC. Yes, an awakened lizard who just happen to learn magic. Not terribly practical. * How much would a maximized Awaken spell cost? Awaken is a 5th-level spell. Maximized it would be 8th-level. You need a 15th-level druid with maximize spell. Cost would be 15*8*10 + 500 (for the XP cost) = 1,700gp. Of course you need to find a 15th-level druid with maximize spell and convince him to cast the spell. I can't see why he would just do so to make wizardlings. * An awakened lizard with 1 wizard level, that would make him what character level? A (tiny) lizard is 1hd. Awaken adds two hit dice. I wouldn't see an LA on such a creature, so it would start as: Magical beast (augmented animal) 3 and upon getting another 3,000xp, could gain a level of wizard. It would be 4th-level by then. * Keeping a spellbook... going to need a solution for that one. Turning the page would be a problem, as would writing spells into the book, lighting a candle so you can see, etc., etc. * Familiar (This is going to be interesting) Another lizard? ;) * Anything I'm forgetting? You can't cast spells, hold objects, manipulate spell components, etc. You'd need to have at least eschew materials and still spell (bumping all spell levels up). Honestly, you can't open a door, light a torch, etc. Not terribly practical in most cases.
Blacksworddragon 06-28-07, 02:14 PM	I've always been confused about awakened animals. Are they animal humanoids or are they animals with above average intelligents.
Zenrak 06-28-07, 02:35 PM	Not terribly practical. Never been one for practicality. :D Awaken is a 5th-level spell. Maximized it would be 8th-level. You need a 15th-level druid with maximize spell. Cost would be 15*8*10 + 500 (for the XP cost) = 1,700gp. Of course you need to find a 15th-level druid with maximize spell and convince him to cast the spell. I can't see why he would just do so to make wizardlings. I figure a druid somewhere had to cast the spell to "test it out". I'm sure I can think of something. A (tiny) lizard is 1hd. Awaken adds two hit dice. I wouldn't see an LA on such a creature, so it would start as: Magical beast (augmented animal) 3 and upon getting another 3,000xp, could gain a level of wizard. It would be 4th-level by then. He would have 2 1/2 HD, right? So if he got a wizard level, would he replace the 1/2 HD with whatever roll he got with the wizard HD? (Much like when the 1/2 HD kobold gets a barbarian level, he becauses a level 1 kobold with 1d12 hp) Turning the page would be a problem, as would writing spells into the book, lighting a candle so you can see, etc., etc. He can turn it with his tongue. Perhaps hire someone to transcribe spells. Heck.. with 19 Int, he'll figure out a way.
NightBreeze 06-28-07, 02:58 PM	As a druid, I used to cast empowered sudden maximizwed awaken on city cats in order to gain the perfect spies....with 24 INT, they are awesome. But unless you manage to make your DM give you the natural spell feat without the 6th level druid prerequisite, you won't be able to play that lizard sorcerer.
Zenrak 06-28-07, 03:26 PM	But unless you manage to make your DM give you the natural spell feat without the 6th level druid prerequisite, you won't be able to play that lizard sorcerer. I wouldn't think this feat would apply since it deals with wild shape, and this lizard is not wild shaped. But this brings up a subject of interest. Are verbal components all the same, or are they language-based? My guess is that language wouldn't matter, since you don't get spellcraft penelties for listening to someone using a different language. I'm willing to believe an awakened animal might be able to create the verbal components needed with a 19 Int.
Magnus029 06-28-07, 04:52 PM	Intelligence has NOTHING to do with the ability to speak
NightBreeze 06-28-07, 07:29 PM	Acutally, if you have 2 int you can't speak any language, and if you have int 3 you know at least some words of one.
Heros_Backpack 06-28-07, 07:45 PM	An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you (the caster) know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). That should take care of any verbal components. :D For the spellbook, there's actually an alternate class feature in the latest issue of Dragon (357) that allows you to trade in your familiar and your bonus 'Scribe scroll' feat for a purely mental spellbook instead of a physical one.
BW0222 06-28-07, 08:01 PM	Blacksworddragon, I've always been confused about awakened animals. Are they animal humanoids or are they animals with above average intelligents. They are magical beast with the sub-type (augmented animal). You do not recalculate hit points, BAB, skills, etc. so it isn't a true magical beast. However, it is no longer meets the definition for an animal. Zenrak, He would have 2 1/2 HD, right? So if he got a wizard level, would he replace the 1/2 HD with whatever roll he got with the wizard HD? No. It is just 3hd. The 1/2 is more to say that they are using a d4 for hit points. In reality, it is treated as a 1 HD animal (which rolled low on it's hit points). It has the same BAB, saves, skill points, etc. (Much like when the 1/2 HD kobold gets a barbarian level, he becauses a level 1 kobold with 1d12 hp) No. The awakened animal gets 2 additional hit dice. It starts off a 3hd (you really can't have 2-1/2 hd). It is just the first hd, only gave you d4 hit points. Humaniod-type creatures with only 1hd, typically just gain class class levels from the start. Those with 2 or more, need to add classes on top of their existing racial hit dice. He can turn it with his tongue. Perhaps hire someone to transcribe spells. Heck.. with 19 Int, he'll figure out a way. It isn't a matter of intelligence. A tongue can't life 5lb book or hold a quill pen. They can't copy spells into your spellbook -- they can make scrolls, but only you can put spells into your spell book. NightBreeze As a druid, I used to cast empowered sudden maximizwed awaken on city cats in order to gain the perfect spies....with 24 INT, they are awesome. Maximized add +3 to the spell level. Empowered at +2. The spell is 5th-level. You can't do that by the core rules. But unless you manage to make your DM give you the natural spell feat without the 6th level druid prerequisite, you won't be able to play that lizard sorcerer. There is no 6th-level druid prerequisite. The prerequisite is the ability to wildshape. Being a magical beast doesn't help you. Folks, Awakened animals can speak. Verbal components for spells wouldn't be an issue. Somatic and material components would be. Still spell and augment materials should do. Although it means casting acid splash in a 1st-level spell slot.
Erato 06-28-07, 08:13 PM	Maximized add +3 to the spell level. Empowered at +2. The spell is 5th-level. You can't do that by the core rules. There is no 6th-level druid prerequisite. The prerequisite is the ability to wildshape. Being a magical beast doesn't help you. Folks, Awakened animals can speak. Verbal components for spells wouldn't be an issue. Somatic and material components would be. Still spell and augment materials should do. Although it means casting acid splash in a 1st-level spell slot. That's probably why he said 'sudden maximized'. Otherwise, i agree.
Sildatorak 06-28-07, 10:07 PM	* How much would a maximized Awaken spell cost?It doesn't really matter. You're making an NPC, so I assume you are the DM. * An awakened lizard with 1 wizard level, that would make him what character level?4 as people have stated previously. * Keeping a spellbook... going to need a solution for that one.If you aren't planning on this NPC going anyplace, it seems like carving the spells into the rocks/trees/walls of its dwelling place could work. * Familiar (This is going to be interesting)I think my group would make jokes here that would violate the CoC.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-29-07, 02:39 AM	I love how the LA system is so borked that somehow you have to pay three commoner levels to play a lizard. Even with the assumption of crazy high mentals from awaken, the lizard's physical scores will ensure a w/lizard will die and be a cheap funeral against so called appropriate challenges.
Nor'Morgwae 06-29-07, 02:58 AM	Okay, the casting stuff shouldn't be a problem. A tiny lizard doesn't need a 5 lb. spell book. It could easily have one sized for it and then could turn pages with it's tongue or tail or claw. It wouldn't be a problem to let it scribe with its claw instead of a quill, though it may need special ink to account for the lack of quill. Net effect? Nothing. Subsume what a quill would cost into the ink cost (so the cost for scribing remains the same) and the difficulty of making so small a book cancels out any cost reduction from the recources saved in the small size. Also, somatic components only requrie hands if the creatures natural form has them. Couatls cast as 9th level sorcerers, are you going to tell me they all have to use Still Spell anytime they cast? Dragons don't have hands, just claws. So why would a lizard have a harder time casting than a dragon? Or a Sphinx, Aboleth, Naga, or Unicorn? They can all cast too and none of them have still spell despite using spells with somatic components. Just substitute something else for the hand gestures, the tail or foreclaw seem appropriate. I would also be wary of setting the precident of maximising and empowering an Awaken. Especially if you think a player may later want to play an awakened animal or have one as a cohort. It's a neat trick, but it feels like an abuse of the rules so don't do it unless you ready to let everyone do it. That, or, roll in a large LA for the super high int score (because that is certainly more than an LA 0 race could have). That way you can do it for NPCs but a PC or PC cohort couldn't do it. Be warned, however, the latter option may irk players as it's a bit heavy handed. As to the familiar I would go with something humorously small (since it's getting 1/2 the wizards HD anyway) like a hummingbird or a tiny mole or something. You could even let it have a vermin instead of an animal with Improved Familiar.
Doom_Linnorm 06-29-07, 08:42 AM	Prehensile Tail feat from Savage Species would be a MUST. (So would a slightly lenient DM, I'd allow it for the sheer coolness factor.) Also I'd just ignore the 2 added hitdice in this case, the character would get enough penalties from being such a small animal with poor physical stats. Remove the two added hitdice, replace the racial hitdice with the class hitdice and you get a perfectly acceptable 1st level character. You could also for laughs have your familiar be much bigger then you, like a dog or for utility reasons get an owl or some other bird big enough to lift you and carry your around.
Mirage_1 06-29-07, 10:06 AM	what sorta lizard? Shocker Lizard? The picture of those little guys loooks like they have hands...maybe a feat to actual make full use of them. Then you could also have a shocker lizard familiar and do that area of effect blasting. (of course, this also requires the improved familiar feat and some more spell casting levels) Would think sorcerer with eschew materials would work better
Heros_Backpack 06-29-07, 12:48 PM	I think there's a list of familiars for Tiny and smaller Characters in the DMG somewhere.