awakened animals gaining lvls? [Archive] - Wizards Community

awakened animals gaining lvls? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rapida
08-01-03, 02:48 PM One of my players is playing a druid and he wants to awaken his panther and give it theif levels. How would I go about doing this? Im a pretty new dm and trying to figure everything out still but so are the players. Anyway i wanted to know before hand so i dont make any mistakes.
Nab
08-01-03, 02:56 PM Give the animal companion a cohorts share of XP (1/2) when the group gets XP, and start it at the level equal to its HD (or figure out ECL, but you're a new DM, so we'll keep this simple). So a panther (3 HD, 5 when awakened) would start out as level 5 with 10,000 xp. When it got to 15,000 xp (could take longer than you expect with cohorts share xp) it woul be a first level rogue. And remember, the player does not control it anymore. You should control it, because it now has thoughts and a personality of its own.
Rapida
08-01-03, 03:16 PM ok but it being an animal companion before hand kinda complicates thing with the bonus hit dice... Does it lose the hit dice? i know it would loose the special abilities but what about BAB saves and hd?
avatarolt
08-01-03, 03:56 PM 1) If your character doesn't have the leadership feat, this is no longer possible. Awakened animals can no longer serve as companions. So make sure he has the leadership feat.

2) Ascertain that he has a high enough leadership score (in your DMG) to actually *have* a cohort of the level that the animal will be.

3) I disagree with the previous poster. Unless you have a complete incompetant, allow the player at LEAST combat control. To be honest, half of the fun of cohorting is getting to play two seperate distinct personalities. If your character can't handle it, deny him the leadership feat until he can. It's no fun to be giving half of your exp to someone the party doesn't actually use in combat, let alone in non-combat situations. (As a DM, for instance, you're not going to let the players know that "right now" is a good time for the panther to be trying to pick up a scent on the wind...you give away too much of your plot. It's like publically rolling trap spot checks while announcing what they are and what the DC involved is)

4) As to your last question, an official ruling hasn't been made yet. Unless you accept Andy Collin's unofficial admission of eratta, you can't even target the companion with spells that target animals. Even if you DO manage to awaken the beast with your leadership feat and everything else is good to go, you as a DM are going to have to decide if the animal loses its bab/hd/ability bonuses (which are all, to be honest, simply tied to HD and laid out in a nice format for the players as opposed to the tangle of equations in the back of the MM). Some people on this board have defended the bonuses as advancement and druidic strengthening rituals, and therefore should stay with the bear ala advancement. Some others have argued that they are strictly class benefits for animal companions and that they should not be applied.

Ask your player what HE wants. It might be more beneficial, in his opinion, to end up with a Panther5 instead of a Panther5(+bonus HD). Maybe the player would want it to advance in player levels instead of animal levels (I know that I would for sure).
Rapida
08-01-03, 04:14 PM well the problem with him controlling it would be that he already playing 2 characters (and doing quite well). So 3 is a little much i would just play the panther as a npc and it would listen to the druid. if he tells it to do something.(most the time at least)
avatarolt
08-01-03, 04:53 PM If your character has a second character already, I would *strongly* suggest against allowing the animal to be awakened (unless you're running a 1 or 2 person campaign). It's rough enough for a druid being the center of attention as he/she controls a lot of possible combat characters as it is. With a second PC and a third character with the abilities of a PC, you're offering a lot of metagame imbalance (i.e., one player controls a large portion of the party's power) and pissy players IRL.

(the Leadership feat warns heavily against this)
Rapida
08-01-03, 05:03 PM K i will suggest to him strongly that he shouldnt. Or ill warn him that if he does i will be in control of it and it might not always agree with him. I wouldnt let it use scent or detect traps unless told too etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rapida 08-01-03, 02:48 PM	One of my players is playing a druid and he wants to awaken his panther and give it theif levels. How would I go about doing this? Im a pretty new dm and trying to figure everything out still but so are the players. Anyway i wanted to know before hand so i dont make any mistakes.
Nab 08-01-03, 02:56 PM	Give the animal companion a cohorts share of XP (1/2) when the group gets XP, and start it at the level equal to its HD (or figure out ECL, but you're a new DM, so we'll keep this simple). So a panther (3 HD, 5 when awakened) would start out as level 5 with 10,000 xp. When it got to 15,000 xp (could take longer than you expect with cohorts share xp) it woul be a first level rogue. And remember, the player does not control it anymore. You should control it, because it now has thoughts and a personality of its own.
Rapida 08-01-03, 03:16 PM	ok but it being an animal companion before hand kinda complicates thing with the bonus hit dice... Does it lose the hit dice? i know it would loose the special abilities but what about BAB saves and hd?
avatarolt 08-01-03, 03:56 PM	1) If your character doesn't have the leadership feat, this is no longer possible. Awakened animals can no longer serve as companions. So make sure he has the leadership feat. 2) Ascertain that he has a high enough leadership score (in your DMG) to actually have a cohort of the level that the animal will be. 3) I disagree with the previous poster. Unless you have a complete incompetant, allow the player at LEAST combat control. To be honest, half of the fun of cohorting is getting to play two seperate distinct personalities. If your character can't handle it, deny him the leadership feat until he can. It's no fun to be giving half of your exp to someone the party doesn't actually use in combat, let alone in non-combat situations. (As a DM, for instance, you're not going to let the players know that "right now" is a good time for the panther to be trying to pick up a scent on the wind...you give away too much of your plot. It's like publically rolling trap spot checks while announcing what they are and what the DC involved is) 4) As to your last question, an official ruling hasn't been made yet. Unless you accept Andy Collin's unofficial admission of eratta, you can't even target the companion with spells that target animals. Even if you DO manage to awaken the beast with your leadership feat and everything else is good to go, you as a DM are going to have to decide if the animal loses its bab/hd/ability bonuses (which are all, to be honest, simply tied to HD and laid out in a nice format for the players as opposed to the tangle of equations in the back of the MM). Some people on this board have defended the bonuses as advancement and druidic strengthening rituals, and therefore should stay with the bear ala advancement. Some others have argued that they are strictly class benefits for animal companions and that they should not be applied. Ask your player what HE wants. It might be more beneficial, in his opinion, to end up with a Panther5 instead of a Panther5(+bonus HD). Maybe the player would want it to advance in player levels instead of animal levels (I know that I would for sure).
Rapida 08-01-03, 04:14 PM	well the problem with him controlling it would be that he already playing 2 characters (and doing quite well). So 3 is a little much i would just play the panther as a npc and it would listen to the druid. if he tells it to do something.(most the time at least)
avatarolt 08-01-03, 04:53 PM	If your character has a second character already, I would strongly suggest against allowing the animal to be awakened (unless you're running a 1 or 2 person campaign). It's rough enough for a druid being the center of attention as he/she controls a lot of possible combat characters as it is. With a second PC and a third character with the abilities of a PC, you're offering a lot of metagame imbalance (i.e., one player controls a large portion of the party's power) and pissy players IRL. (the Leadership feat warns heavily against this)
Rapida 08-01-03, 05:03 PM	K i will suggest to him strongly that he shouldnt. Or ill warn him that if he does i will be in control of it and it might not always agree with him. I wouldnt let it use scent or detect traps unless told too etc.