Awsome base ability scores!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Awsome base ability scores!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
klode_me
03-12-05, 12:51 PM i have a player who did rool his ability scores over Webcam, but i think he didn´t do it fair because sometimes he did show me, but he did left it from the table, the ability scores where: 18 18 18 18 17 17. What do you think should i watch his roll them in "Real life", and not through a Webcam?
Laranis Callirr
03-12-05, 12:53 PM Depends, really. If you trust this player, and he has a background of honesty, then maybe you should trust him. If not, ask him to reroll in real life, especially if he didn't show you some of the rolls.
krichaiushii
03-12-05, 01:46 PM For distance games (my presumption as to why you used a Webcam), you might seriously consider using point buy instead of rolling. The very nature of it keeps stat generation honest.

An alternative to point buy is through an online dice roller that functions as a chat room, too. He rolls once you are both online. There is a nice one at Ancient Awakenings (http://www.ancient-awakenings.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=index&POSTNUKESID=830ad63111901b3b10c83b6ddf8e e009).

Otherwise, what Laranis Callirr said.
TheUnknownZombie
03-12-05, 02:12 PM If you have to do it over the internet, get him to roll on a dice server that automatically emails the results to you (there are a few around).

The chances of those results are... slim to say the least.
Dreaming_in_the_void
03-12-05, 02:16 PM I use the point buy system (although generously) for all my games. That way you don't run into lucky players taking over and outshining the unluckier players every time.

Luck will always dictate the outcome to some extent, but at least the playing field is fair.
Razoreface
03-12-05, 02:17 PM Jeez.. how far was the webcam from the dice? If you couldn't make out the numbers, there's no reason at all to trust those rolls.
weasel fierce
03-12-05, 02:44 PM What dice rolls did you use ? Even with 4D6, discard lowest, the chances of those stats are almost nil
Harold DeVor
03-12-05, 04:09 PM i have a player who did rool his ability scores over Webcam, but i think he didn´t do it fair because sometimes he did show me, but he did left it from the table, the ability scores where: 18 18 18 18 17 17. What do you think should i watch his roll them in "Real life", and not through a Webcam?

Do you trust him?

If yes, why bother. Carry on with the game.

If no, why play with him? The game is for having fun with friends, call me old fashioned but trust is a major aspect of friendship.
Reinhardt_Wyrd
03-12-05, 04:30 PM I don't know how well You could see over webcam, but it is easy to cheat with dice, and if You have limited vision, even more so.
Did You for example notice what were the numbers on the sides (not up-side) of dice? He could have, for example, paint extra dots to make 3 into 5, 2 into 6.

Eitherway, people above have proposed good solutions to Your problem.
Matthew The Mage
03-12-05, 04:38 PM Those rolls are just about over the top.

the chances of those being rolled natually are very very slim.

I have a set of dice i call my deamon dice cause i have been known to get some really demonic rolls off those things and not even i have had more than two 18's on one PC before modifiers.

And the chances of rolling one Stat with an 18 using 4d6 dropping lowest is low let alone 4.

But then again if the player needs to have those stats to be able to play and you have no problem with him in the group then keep on going.

Just my two cents
Majorafire77
03-12-05, 04:44 PM You could just use the point system in the DMG as an alternative. Having a player not roll in front of you always ends up in at least 2 18s when they report your rolls to you.
twad
03-12-05, 04:46 PM apply point-buy for fairness to the other players. Those stat are too high and he will have much of the job done by himself.
Didge
03-12-05, 09:27 PM Ok,

Here's what you do.

1) Did you save the webcam video footage? If you did than you simply pull it back up and play it again. Look closely. If for any reason the player is "hiding the dice" then ask him to re-roll in person. When he asks why (they always do) show him the video and ask why he "hid" the dice from the webcam.

2) Like the others have said above, institute a point-buy system. This works for character creation, but if he is using 'bad' dice, than he'll still get all those 'lucky' rolls. In which case smite him. Cheating is bad enough, but goodness this is a game. The fact that some people feel the need to cheat, at a game nonetheless, is utterly rediculous.

3) Bring up that you the connection was bad and that you'd like him to roll them again.

4) Ask him to re-roll (or reduce his stats considerably) so as to not outshine the other members of the party.

5) Boot him on principle and use it as an exercise to show your other players that you don't tolerate cheaters.

6) As above, if he is the trustworthy type then chalk it up to those slim, but not-probable, possibilities and refer to my suggestion of #4.
ShadowDragon8685
03-12-05, 09:48 PM Or, do what I do. I like my players, if their happiness is not something that will interfere with other players being happy (IE: I can only be happy when I'm a thieving Kender,) to be happy.

Ask the other players if they would object to playing in a very high-powered game. If so, then find out the point buy for this person's stats (since I'm nice, it's a 58 Point Buy) and tell everyone else that they can make their characters with similar point buy. Then tell them that the max is not 18, but 20. Remember, it's +3 points after 18, so...

Ability score: Points it costs to have this score
8 0
9 1
10 2
11 3
12 4
13 5
14 6
15 8
16 10
17 13
18 16
19 19
20 22

However, if he IS cheating, simply boot him. He's the kind of person who's fun is mutually exclusive with that of the other players.
twad
03-12-05, 10:16 PM in my game i did that: a kinda "25 point buy".

every stat are 10, then they have 25 points to increase their stats, each point raise the stat by one. Then apply racial modif. This give good stats.

they were lvl 6, so it gives them a +1 point too.
the PCs stats:

Half-orc Barb: 20-16-15-12-12-8..
Human fighter: 16-12-16-14-14-14..
Human Cleric:17-12-16-12-17-12..
I had a human ranger too.. but lost his char sheet..
Tzepish
03-12-05, 10:25 PM Whether you trust the guy or not, you do have the right to ask him to reroll because you're afraid his high ability scores will disrupt your game. And if you don't trust him, you can use the same excuse to get him to reroll.
angryman
03-12-05, 11:20 PM OK, I have rolled something similar in front of the DM, it was 18, 18, 17, 16, 11, 8 (on 3d6 organic, too) which was great, but it was for a non-combat NPC wife of mine so he didn't care. The main point is, will it make the other characters feel shafted? If they all have ungodly stats, it's ok, but if one guy just barely scraped over the minimum reroll (which sucks), he'll be pretty annoyed. Honestly, I'd just stick with point buy, no mess, no fuss, no "OH MY GOD!!! LOOOOK WHAT I ROLLLLED! WOOOT!!" Then when you accuse them of cheating, they get offended, then when you tell them if they're gonna cheat they should be a little subtle about it, they get more affronted and threaten to leave. Then you tell them to leave because they're cheating anyway, so they grudgingly apologise but hold it against you...and anyway they might not have cheated but it's bloody unlikely...gah, go point buy...
weasel fierce
03-12-05, 11:24 PM I always observe the dice rolls, so no problems with cheaters. If I didnt see the roll, then it didnt happen. If you argue, you can play somewhere else.

Never had an issue.
MinusInnocence
03-13-05, 02:47 AM Sure, the guy is probably more likely to have won the lottery than rolled these scores, but it's not mathematically impossible or anything. If you can roll one 18, you can roll five more.

Still, if you're upset and don't trust him, you never will, no matter how long the character survives. So, the reroll is pretty much mandatory if both of you are gonna enjoy the game.
Tedly224
03-13-05, 03:43 AM Use point buy. In cases when you're using random die rolls, use AIM, IRC, OpenRPG, or some other chat application with a built in die roller. And sit in the room and watch the rolls be made.

I wouldn't rely on a Web Cam to relay anything trustworthy, especially with rolls that high. The player may take it personally, but if you have a real problem with it, switch over to point buy and just say that you're sorry but the point buy system will be the most fair and even for a level playing field for the rest of the players for the campaign.
LordArkan
03-13-05, 04:01 AM Remember, it's +3 points after 18, so...

No, the formula is that it costs as much as your current bonus to raise the stat by 1 (minimum 1). So 19 would cost 20, 20 would cost 24, 21 would cost 29, etc...
Kem
03-13-05, 04:14 AM I rolled a 18/18/18/18/17/17 once.

DM watched and everything. I was shocked.

DM ended up moving one session in and never got to play with her beyond that :(
klode_me
03-13-05, 08:25 AM i don´t know if i trust him, because sometimes when i am watching he is lucky and sometimes he is not, so maybe make a 40 point buy, or is that to Far?
MarkB
03-13-05, 08:35 AM i don´t know if i trust him, because sometimes when i am watching he is lucky and sometimes he is not, so maybe make a 40 point buy, or is that to Far?
40 point is a little high, if you're using standard DMG point-buy rules. 28 is pretty standard, 32 is somewhat high-powered, and certainly sufficient to create a nice, well-rounded character with decent bonuses where it counts and no penalties.
klode_me
03-13-05, 08:43 AM 40 point is a little high, if you're using standard DMG point-buy rules. 28 is pretty standard, 32 is somewhat high-powered, and certainly sufficient to create a nice, well-rounded character with decent bonuses where it counts and no penalties.

so you mean that it would be better to give them 28 or 32 if it is more high-powered? But is it better to use the ability-score-point-buy system than using Roll-dices-better-be-lucky system? Because i think it is a kind of unfair when one player get 18 18 18 18 17 17, and other players only get 17 15 14 16 18 14 (and that if also a lucky roll for them) one of my player does sometimes only get 7 16 10 12 13 9, that is why i think i want to use the ability-score-point-buy system.
Tee-drake
03-13-05, 10:16 AM I play with the same player as he dos, and this player turn up again with the same problem. His dice was as follows: 18-18-18-18-15-16. He can't in any possible way get that in first hit. That physicly impossible. When i confront him he just says that he didn't cheat( witch he obviusly did) and that he don't like to hit again. I asked him to do it on the internet. He just says that if he has to get some other dice's all the other player will need to do the same. I dunno what to do. Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices.
klode_me
03-13-05, 10:25 AM I play with the same player as he dos, and this player turn up again with the same problem. His dice was as follows: 18-18-18-18-15-16. He can't in any possible way get that in first hit. That physicly impossible. When i confront him he just says that he didn't cheat( witch he obviusly did) and that he don't like to hit again. I asked him to do it on the internet. He just says that if he has to get some other dice's all the other player will need to do the same. I dunno what to do. Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices.

Hey me friend, i am thinking about making my campaign Ability-scores-point-buy system, then i don´t have any lucky player or any unlucky player, thats fair, but he who did roll 18 18 18 18 17 17 have a choice, to reroll them or to give up all yours and his ability scores and make the ability scores point-buy-based.
Palin the Wizard
03-13-05, 10:36 AM The stats you posted are certainly possible. Each stat is within 3-18. The chance is just very, very slim--as some others said, near nil.

But if he got 4 18s in two different games, he's almost certainly cheating. The chance of that happening would be astronomically small.

In all fairness, though, if he *did* roll that well, and you take it away from him on the basis that you think he is cheating without any real justification, he's probably going to be a mite bit ticked off.

I remember watching someone roll 18, 18, 18, 17, 17, 17 once. I am not 100% sure he was using sound dice, but I tried them afterwards, and they were normal then. Of course, he *could* have switched them out with similar-looking dice, but I doubt he'd do it.
Razoreface
03-13-05, 11:48 AM Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices.

If you're having him do it remotely, via webcam, the webcam should not point at him. They should point at the dice, and any dice that are rolled out of the camera's field of view need to get rerolled.

We played with a friend via webcam after he moved out east for a while, and that's something he just naturally did when he rolled. The camera was pointed down at the dice and he used dice that were clear enough that there wasn't ever any doubt what the numbers were, except with d20's, which he'd move the camera to get a better view. Nobody ever asked him to do it, and we probably wouldn't have even if he wasn't doing it, he's probably the most inherently honest person I've ever met.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
klode_me 03-12-05, 12:51 PM	i have a player who did rool his ability scores over Webcam, but i think he didn´t do it fair because sometimes he did show me, but he did left it from the table, the ability scores where: 18 18 18 18 17 17. What do you think should i watch his roll them in "Real life", and not through a Webcam?
Laranis Callirr 03-12-05, 12:53 PM	Depends, really. If you trust this player, and he has a background of honesty, then maybe you should trust him. If not, ask him to reroll in real life, especially if he didn't show you some of the rolls.
krichaiushii 03-12-05, 01:46 PM	For distance games (my presumption as to why you used a Webcam), you might seriously consider using point buy instead of rolling. The very nature of it keeps stat generation honest. An alternative to point buy is through an online dice roller that functions as a chat room, too. He rolls once you are both online. There is a nice one at Ancient Awakenings (http://www.ancient-awakenings.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=index&POSTNUKESID=830ad63111901b3b10c83b6ddf8e e009). Otherwise, what Laranis Callirr said.
TheUnknownZombie 03-12-05, 02:12 PM	If you have to do it over the internet, get him to roll on a dice server that automatically emails the results to you (there are a few around). The chances of those results are... slim to say the least.
Dreaming_in_the_void 03-12-05, 02:16 PM	I use the point buy system (although generously) for all my games. That way you don't run into lucky players taking over and outshining the unluckier players every time. Luck will always dictate the outcome to some extent, but at least the playing field is fair.
Razoreface 03-12-05, 02:17 PM	Jeez.. how far was the webcam from the dice? If you couldn't make out the numbers, there's no reason at all to trust those rolls.
weasel fierce 03-12-05, 02:44 PM	What dice rolls did you use ? Even with 4D6, discard lowest, the chances of those stats are almost nil
Harold DeVor 03-12-05, 04:09 PM	i have a player who did rool his ability scores over Webcam, but i think he didn´t do it fair because sometimes he did show me, but he did left it from the table, the ability scores where: 18 18 18 18 17 17. What do you think should i watch his roll them in "Real life", and not through a Webcam? Do you trust him? If yes, why bother. Carry on with the game. If no, why play with him? The game is for having fun with friends, call me old fashioned but trust is a major aspect of friendship.
Reinhardt_Wyrd 03-12-05, 04:30 PM	I don't know how well You could see over webcam, but it is easy to cheat with dice, and if You have limited vision, even more so. Did You for example notice what were the numbers on the sides (not up-side) of dice? He could have, for example, paint extra dots to make 3 into 5, 2 into 6. Eitherway, people above have proposed good solutions to Your problem.
Matthew The Mage 03-12-05, 04:38 PM	Those rolls are just about over the top. the chances of those being rolled natually are very very slim. I have a set of dice i call my deamon dice cause i have been known to get some really demonic rolls off those things and not even i have had more than two 18's on one PC before modifiers. And the chances of rolling one Stat with an 18 using 4d6 dropping lowest is low let alone 4. But then again if the player needs to have those stats to be able to play and you have no problem with him in the group then keep on going. Just my two cents
Majorafire77 03-12-05, 04:44 PM	You could just use the point system in the DMG as an alternative. Having a player not roll in front of you always ends up in at least 2 18s when they report your rolls to you.
twad 03-12-05, 04:46 PM	apply point-buy for fairness to the other players. Those stat are too high and he will have much of the job done by himself.
Didge 03-12-05, 09:27 PM	Ok, Here's what you do. 1) Did you save the webcam video footage? If you did than you simply pull it back up and play it again. Look closely. If for any reason the player is "hiding the dice" then ask him to re-roll in person. When he asks why (they always do) show him the video and ask why he "hid" the dice from the webcam. 2) Like the others have said above, institute a point-buy system. This works for character creation, but if he is using 'bad' dice, than he'll still get all those 'lucky' rolls. In which case smite him. Cheating is bad enough, but goodness this is a game. The fact that some people feel the need to cheat, at a game nonetheless, is utterly rediculous. 3) Bring up that you the connection was bad and that you'd like him to roll them again. 4) Ask him to re-roll (or reduce his stats considerably) so as to not outshine the other members of the party. 5) Boot him on principle and use it as an exercise to show your other players that you don't tolerate cheaters. 6) As above, if he is the trustworthy type then chalk it up to those slim, but not-probable, possibilities and refer to my suggestion of #4.
ShadowDragon8685 03-12-05, 09:48 PM	Or, do what I do. I like my players, if their happiness is not something that will interfere with other players being happy (IE: I can only be happy when I'm a thieving Kender,) to be happy. Ask the other players if they would object to playing in a very high-powered game. If so, then find out the point buy for this person's stats (since I'm nice, it's a 58 Point Buy) and tell everyone else that they can make their characters with similar point buy. Then tell them that the max is not 18, but 20. Remember, it's +3 points after 18, so... Ability score: Points it costs to have this score 8 0 9 1 10 2 11 3 12 4 13 5 14 6 15 8 16 10 17 13 18 16 19 19 20 22 However, if he IS cheating, simply boot him. He's the kind of person who's fun is mutually exclusive with that of the other players.
twad 03-12-05, 10:16 PM	in my game i did that: a kinda "25 point buy". every stat are 10, then they have 25 points to increase their stats, each point raise the stat by one. Then apply racial modif. This give good stats. they were lvl 6, so it gives them a +1 point too. the PCs stats: Half-orc Barb: 20-16-15-12-12-8.. Human fighter: 16-12-16-14-14-14.. Human Cleric:17-12-16-12-17-12.. I had a human ranger too.. but lost his char sheet..
Tzepish 03-12-05, 10:25 PM	Whether you trust the guy or not, you do have the right to ask him to reroll because you're afraid his high ability scores will disrupt your game. And if you don't trust him, you can use the same excuse to get him to reroll.
angryman 03-12-05, 11:20 PM	OK, I have rolled something similar in front of the DM, it was 18, 18, 17, 16, 11, 8 (on 3d6 organic, too) which was great, but it was for a non-combat NPC wife of mine so he didn't care. The main point is, will it make the other characters feel shafted? If they all have ungodly stats, it's ok, but if one guy just barely scraped over the minimum reroll (which sucks), he'll be pretty annoyed. Honestly, I'd just stick with point buy, no mess, no fuss, no "OH MY GOD!!! LOOOOK WHAT I ROLLLLED! WOOOT!!" Then when you accuse them of cheating, they get offended, then when you tell them if they're gonna cheat they should be a little subtle about it, they get more affronted and threaten to leave. Then you tell them to leave because they're cheating anyway, so they grudgingly apologise but hold it against you...and anyway they might not have cheated but it's bloody unlikely...gah, go point buy...
weasel fierce 03-12-05, 11:24 PM	I always observe the dice rolls, so no problems with cheaters. If I didnt see the roll, then it didnt happen. If you argue, you can play somewhere else. Never had an issue.
MinusInnocence 03-13-05, 02:47 AM	Sure, the guy is probably more likely to have won the lottery than rolled these scores, but it's not mathematically impossible or anything. If you can roll one 18, you can roll five more. Still, if you're upset and don't trust him, you never will, no matter how long the character survives. So, the reroll is pretty much mandatory if both of you are gonna enjoy the game.
Tedly224 03-13-05, 03:43 AM	Use point buy. In cases when you're using random die rolls, use AIM, IRC, OpenRPG, or some other chat application with a built in die roller. And sit in the room and watch the rolls be made. I wouldn't rely on a Web Cam to relay anything trustworthy, especially with rolls that high. The player may take it personally, but if you have a real problem with it, switch over to point buy and just say that you're sorry but the point buy system will be the most fair and even for a level playing field for the rest of the players for the campaign.
LordArkan 03-13-05, 04:01 AM	Remember, it's +3 points after 18, so... No, the formula is that it costs as much as your current bonus to raise the stat by 1 (minimum 1). So 19 would cost 20, 20 would cost 24, 21 would cost 29, etc...
Kem 03-13-05, 04:14 AM	I rolled a 18/18/18/18/17/17 once. DM watched and everything. I was shocked. DM ended up moving one session in and never got to play with her beyond that :(
klode_me 03-13-05, 08:25 AM	i don´t know if i trust him, because sometimes when i am watching he is lucky and sometimes he is not, so maybe make a 40 point buy, or is that to Far?
MarkB 03-13-05, 08:35 AM	i don´t know if i trust him, because sometimes when i am watching he is lucky and sometimes he is not, so maybe make a 40 point buy, or is that to Far? 40 point is a little high, if you're using standard DMG point-buy rules. 28 is pretty standard, 32 is somewhat high-powered, and certainly sufficient to create a nice, well-rounded character with decent bonuses where it counts and no penalties.
klode_me 03-13-05, 08:43 AM	40 point is a little high, if you're using standard DMG point-buy rules. 28 is pretty standard, 32 is somewhat high-powered, and certainly sufficient to create a nice, well-rounded character with decent bonuses where it counts and no penalties. so you mean that it would be better to give them 28 or 32 if it is more high-powered? But is it better to use the ability-score-point-buy system than using Roll-dices-better-be-lucky system? Because i think it is a kind of unfair when one player get 18 18 18 18 17 17, and other players only get 17 15 14 16 18 14 (and that if also a lucky roll for them) one of my player does sometimes only get 7 16 10 12 13 9, that is why i think i want to use the ability-score-point-buy system.
Tee-drake 03-13-05, 10:16 AM	I play with the same player as he dos, and this player turn up again with the same problem. His dice was as follows: 18-18-18-18-15-16. He can't in any possible way get that in first hit. That physicly impossible. When i confront him he just says that he didn't cheat( witch he obviusly did) and that he don't like to hit again. I asked him to do it on the internet. He just says that if he has to get some other dice's all the other player will need to do the same. I dunno what to do. Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices.
klode_me 03-13-05, 10:25 AM	I play with the same player as he dos, and this player turn up again with the same problem. His dice was as follows: 18-18-18-18-15-16. He can't in any possible way get that in first hit. That physicly impossible. When i confront him he just says that he didn't cheat( witch he obviusly did) and that he don't like to hit again. I asked him to do it on the internet. He just says that if he has to get some other dice's all the other player will need to do the same. I dunno what to do. Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices. Hey me friend, i am thinking about making my campaign Ability-scores-point-buy system, then i don´t have any lucky player or any unlucky player, thats fair, but he who did roll 18 18 18 18 17 17 have a choice, to reroll them or to give up all yours and his ability scores and make the ability scores point-buy-based.
Palin the Wizard 03-13-05, 10:36 AM	The stats you posted are certainly possible. Each stat is within 3-18. The chance is just very, very slim--as some others said, near nil. But if he got 4 18s in two different games, he's almost certainly cheating. The chance of that happening would be astronomically small. In all fairness, though, if he did roll that well, and you take it away from him on the basis that you think he is cheating without any real justification, he's probably going to be a mite bit ticked off. I remember watching someone roll 18, 18, 18, 17, 17, 17 once. I am not 100% sure he was using sound dice, but I tried them afterwards, and they were normal then. Of course, he could have switched them out with similar-looking dice, but I doubt he'd do it.
Razoreface 03-13-05, 11:48 AM	Next time he'll have to do it on the computer so i can see his dices. If you're having him do it remotely, via webcam, the webcam should not point at him. They should point at the dice, and any dice that are rolled out of the camera's field of view need to get rerolled. We played with a friend via webcam after he moved out east for a while, and that's something he just naturally did when he rolled. The camera was pointed down at the dice and he used dice that were clear enough that there wasn't ever any doubt what the numbers were, except with d20's, which he'd move the camera to get a better view. Nobody ever asked him to do it, and we probably wouldn't have even if he wasn't doing it, he's probably the most inherently honest person I've ever met.