Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cyra 06-28-05, 05:55 PM	PC make up time!!!!! 1 lvl 10 Fighter 1 Lvl 8 druid/ lvl 1 Bard 1 lvl 4 ranger/ lvl 5 rogue 1 vl 9 sorc (wasn't there for this one) So I started my most recent campaign with the thought of keeping it good. The PCs would rise up and defeat the evil organization bent on summoning an evil army to lay waste to the material plane and in turn gain great power. The PCs are part of what is called the Bright Protectorate and it is they who are out to destroy this organization. and the pay aint great Therefore my PCs decided it would be best to gain a little money. One of my characters had some connections to the underground and asked for a "job." The job was to kill 20 members of a rival gang (CR1 Warriors).... Which they did, and cut their heads off, burned down the bar that they were in, killed an officer of the law, subdued another, and tricked 4 more officers to go get water for the fire they started... Naturally their alignments on the good/evil axis went south a step, now one is evil. So what now? Obviously they can't get away with it, but I'm afraid they will just backlash at Bright Protectorate penalties and not want to be members anymore, then I have to hunt them down yadda yadda yadda.... How do I entice them to curb the evilness?
Mr. Leet 06-28-05, 05:58 PM	get new players
kaldrin 06-28-05, 05:59 PM	How do I entice them to curb the evilness? Ummm... don't give them jobs that will require them to kill 20 people in cold blood?
75RD Drum Clip 06-28-05, 06:02 PM	Quit trying to railroad the party.
OracleYori 06-28-05, 06:02 PM	Ummm... don't give them jobs that will require them to kill 20 people in cold blood? I second that!
Astinex 06-28-05, 06:04 PM	Without more info I'd say they do not want to be good. Trying to 'force' or direct the PC's to be good at this point will probably have a negative impact on the game as a whole. Did you discuss yours and their goals before starting the campaign? It appears you and your players have different goals and this campaign will need some adjustment on your part, or may be doomed. I would start the next session by laying out where you expected the campaign to head. Ask them if they are even interested in your concept.
Cyra 06-28-05, 06:08 PM	Quit trying to railroad the party. railroading I am not, notice I said entice, not make. If they want to go evil then they most certainly can, however, I'd rather not run an evil campaign.
Dragonsblood 06-28-05, 06:11 PM	Ummm... don't give them jobs that will require them to kill 20 people in cold blood? That, and make the missions of Bright Protectorate pay better. Or require your players to make PCs with actual good intentions and not greedy ones.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-28-05, 06:13 PM	A single act shouldn't shift alignment. A broad trend in behavior should. Also, changing the alignment of every character in the party could be interpreted as giving them an excuse to be more evil.
Cyra 06-28-05, 06:18 PM	maybe I should explain... getting loot has been the majority of of the parties main goals, killing has always been seen as a nessicary part of getting said loot, all but one of the characters has this mind set and maybe I've been to harsh on him, but none of them played the good side of their characters at all well and have been, for the most part nuetral, and thus their alignments were shifted. This was not a spur of the moment thing, please give me some credit I read that part in the DMG. As for the job? They chose to take it, it was an option, not a mandate.
ĐēşţĩŊŷ 06-28-05, 06:20 PM	Tell the players that they can't make themselves do such an act instead of just letting them abuse the power they have.... all the campaigns i've been in the whole party've turned to evil/dark side etc. except at the moment we had a great dm.. and me :p
gamefiend 06-28-05, 06:24 PM	oh man! I love this stuff! Let them turn evil. I had a brilliant campaign (looong ago, 2E) that was started by a player turning evil by spreading this mutating substance in the water supply of a nearby town. Too bad he couldn't control what the mutants did. </nostalgia> Seriously, if the PCs want to be evil, it can make for a great campaign. The evil guys you were going to have them destroy? Let them work for them. But keep in mind that evil people aren't going to nurture them, or aid them (unless it's advantageous to do so) and they certainly won't care. When PCs turn evil it is your job as a DM to show them what they left behind. Evil can never relax -you always have to prepare to defend yourself from those you've destroyed. Peace, contentment, joy? hahahaha. No more of that. There's a reason that people lean towards "good" (though they may do evil things)...it's a lot more chill. There is certainly a banality to evil. Imagine your typical BBEG sorceror's day: 5:00am -wake up in cold sweats. Had nightmare that summoned demon was out of my control. 6:00am -Can't sleep. Check magic circles and cages. Demon is under control. Or is he? 6:30am -check world domination project scroll. Assemble task list of everything that must be in place. 8:00am -memorize spells to cajole and control evil humanoid minions. Memorize spells to kill goodygoody adventurers. 9:00am -frighten minions into performing tasks. 9:30am -check on demon. Still under control. 10:00am -check in on minions to make sure they are still on track. 11:00am -chack and amend 'enemies' list. Scry to make sure none are en route to tower now. 12:00pm -send minions to waylay adventurers. 12:30pm -torture captured villager girl. ...and so on, every fricken day. Evil is boring. If you can't stand the thought of doing an evil campaign, I understand. But if you do, remember that despite the quick gains that players make, in the long term it is a harder a more destructive road that they are on.
Cyra 06-28-05, 06:27 PM	Tell the players that they can't make themselves do such an act instead of just letting them abuse the power they have.... all the campaigns i've been in the whole party've turned to evil/dark side etc. except at the moment we had a great dm.. and me :p I can't tell the players what they can and cannot do when it comes to decisions. Sure it'd be easy, but then I'd be rail roading.
Unreal32 06-28-05, 06:33 PM	Ummm... don't give them jobs that will require them to kill 20 people in cold blood? The above is true as it obviously didn't help matters for a party that obviously wanted to, as I like to call it, 'Darth Vader' on your DM ass, like being a evil is somehow cooler and easier to control because they feel they don't have to do any thinking, just act out atrocities. (This is obviously not true). Killing off a rival gang, ( I assume this other gang were of a chaotic alignment bending more towards evil?), isn't neccesarily an 'evil' act but beheading each member, buring down their bar, killing an officer of the law all nods towards my above comments. They wanted to be evil, so let them be it and soon they'll discover that playing evil characters, if done properly, can be very difficult; ie they probably won't last to long. If they chose to be part of the Bright Protectorate then chances are they got bored/frustrated of whatever being part of this outfit means or just decided as a group to play the funny guys and put your campaign into disarray.
ĐēşţĩŊŷ 06-28-05, 06:49 PM	It might be rail-roading but what is a dm to do if a lawful good neverdoneanevilact paladin all of a sudden just start slaughtering the denizens of a small village and afterwards calls himself the lord of terror? My 2 cents would be to talk to the players about their actions, perhaps they were bored, and didn't want to get rail-roaded.
pres_man 06-28-05, 07:01 PM	I can't tell the players what they can and cannot do when it comes to decisions. Sure it'd be easy, but then I'd be rail roading. True but you can ask your players to explain why their characters are doing a certain action. DM: You are offered a job to kill a bunch of guys. (CG) Rogue: We take the job and go find the guys to kill. DM: Why would your rogue who is suppose to be good take a job of murder for hire? Rogue: I need the money. DM: Ok, but wouldn't it be evil to do a job for hire, I mean look in the PHB at alignments, it says evil kills for profit or pleasure. Wouldn't you be killng for profit and therefore be evil? Rogue: Well it might be evil, but heck I can get away with one evil act and not lose my alignment. DM: So because of purely metagaming reasons, you can do a single evil act without getting your alignment shifted, you are going to have your PC do an evil act, despite the fact that there is no real reason that your PC would do this act. Rogue: Fine, my PC is not CG after all, they are CN. They only care about getting theirs. DM: Fine. Plays out encounter, in which rogue does several separate evil acts. DM: Nice sessions folks, oh yeah rogue, you are now CE. Rogue: What you can't shift my alignment for doing one evil act. DM: Actually you did a total of 7 evil acts during this session. Sure they all occured during the same encounter but that isn't really relevant.
Cyra 06-28-05, 07:05 PM	obviously someone took his "logic" pills and "well thought out argument" syrup
ĐēşţĩŊŷ 06-28-05, 07:06 PM	obviously someone took his "logic" pills and "well thought out argument" syrup meh? no idea what you mean
Rotipher 06-28-05, 07:09 PM	Are these players the sort who see gaming as a catharsis, i.e. the chance to forget about IRL society's rules and expectations and just cut loose...? If so, you should try scaling back your own expectations -- no huge epic quests, no save-the-kingdom metaplots -- and run some straight-up, old-fashioned dungeon crawls. Let them kick butts and smash monsters' lairs up, and hold off on long-term storylines ... until they start evolving naturally from in-game events (e.g. a villain escapes and becomes a campaign "BBEG", at which time you can build up a natural enmity that'll motivate them to give chase). Don't hesitate to tailor events in your game specifically to meet your players' emotional needs, either. If a player seems irked at bossy NPCs, give his PC a chance to mess (non-fatally) with an obnoxious, pushy bureaucrat. If one of your players insists on getting her PCs into stupid situations, set up an ideal opportunity to do just that *before* the main adventure really starts, so she can get the urge out of her system. If players are bored, toss in a fight to get them interested, and make the opponents low-powered enough so they'll get a kick out of their easy (but exciting) victory.