Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daldolin15 05-03-04, 01:04 AM	Province of Pillsnarth players DO NOT READ!!!! Hello, I'm basically approaching a point in my campaign where I want to try something a little different and I wanted opinions on it first. Basically in my campaign there exists a female PC (played by a female player) who is an elf fighter named Sekmet. Now if you have ever heard of the Egyptian Goddess Sekmet (I may be mispelling the name) you would know that she was a bloody warrior who almost destroyed all of mankind and did so with glee. This player plays her elf much like this taking great relish in battle and slaying many of her opponents without any hesitation. Despite her violent nature she is a devout worshipper of Kord (due to her upbringing) and thus spends her offtime constantly praying to him to forgive her violence and generally feeling angsty and guilty about what she does in battle. However, once fighting starts up again she becomes the "Bloody Maiden", as the commoners have started to call her, all over again . So currently the party came up against certain death was basically given an offer by a certain unknown being that allowed them to survive and in fact even save people who they were sure they could not save. After accepting his offer, but moments before they left, the mysterious being told them that he would ask for a favor for them in exchange for the gift he gave them. Most of the party shrugged and accepted the fact while party wizard agreed to it after he found out that the guy wanted to ressurect a dead lesser deity. He expects them all to be called back when the time is right for them to payback what they owe. However, he was what I was thinking. When they agreed the being placed inside the elf's body the last dying essence of the nameless dead goddess in the form of the embryo. As she engages in violence and slaughter and general negative actions it grows inside of her until it becomes a full fledged baby, thus making her pregnant and eventually having to give birth to this child (she may not even know something is wrong with the child since she has a husband NPC). After being born, the baby goddess would still be weak and mortal if not somewhat powerful thus it would fill its "mother" with maternal instinct so even when it becomes apparent that the child ain't an elf (it will begin to age quickly and will be unnaturally intelligent) she will still protect it as her daughter. From there the child will do fun little things that make the mortals around her think she is "blessed" or a "prophetess" eventually forming a cult base large enough to give her enough worshippers to become a diety. So first, I'd like to know what you think of the idea. The campaign is not "mature" persay as there has not been much sex, or vileness to the level some games can reach but its not exactly light-hearted either. Everyone in the party is 21-22 and in college so I won't be bringing this up to a bunch of middle-school people. Second, if I do go through with this, the elf will be pregnant for a portion of the games coming up. Does anyone have any house-rules on how this works? Daldolin15- Thanks for listening!
Fixxxer 05-03-04, 02:10 AM	You might want to do a google search for "The RPG Guide to Sex" and/or "The Netbook of Sex" (which are the same thing, I believe). There are some fairly good rules for pregnant PCs in there, as I recall. You might also take a cue from the show Charmed (which my wife watches religiously). From what I could tell, at one point during the course of the show, one of the main characters became pregnant, but she still kept on fighting evil. The baby inside of her is basically destined to be the most powerful thing ever to walk the earth, though, and its power helped to protect her while she was fighting. She had a lot of problems, but getting gravely injured during a fight wasn't one of them. Now, I wouldn't suggest that you make the PC invulnerable, but if this is truely a deity inside of her, you mgiht think about granting a +3 deflection bonus (from the power of the baby) to help compensate fromt he physical penalties she's bound to take for being pregnant. In this way, she can still be a productive member of the party and the situation doesn't have to degenerate into her leaving the party or the party taking 9 months off for her to have a baby.
Kaya Kenobi 05-03-04, 02:25 AM	Book of Erotic Fantasy is a book you should look into, my friend... It isn't all about sex, and it's about morals, marriage arrangements, be it monogamies or polygamies. It's about chastity, honor, etc... The book in other words, is something that covers some issues about this type of game you're headed into.
Edymnion 05-03-04, 02:33 PM	I assume, of course, that you got permission from the Player to have her character get pregnant in the first place?
Shadowmagyk 05-03-04, 03:03 PM	I assume, of course, that you got permission from the Player to have her character get pregnant in the first place? I was just going to say this. It is a cool idea, and it would make an even better surprise. However, the player who has this forced upon HER may not like it at all. This can create issues that you dont want to deal with. Run it by her. You can still surprise her by explaining to her OoC that this is what will happen. If she agrees, go with it. If not, think of something else. If you must think of something else, have the party be required to protect another female during her pregnancy. If they are already on a quest, it will be that much more interesting when they have to think of ways to protect this girl while fulfilling their previous duties. Just a thought, but make sure that you get her permission.
Daldolin15 05-03-04, 03:29 PM	Alrighty, I'll have to think of a way to ask her without giving too much away...Thanks for the suggestions.
scott644 05-03-04, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Daldolin15 Alrighty, I'll have to think of a way to ask her without giving too much away...Thanks for the suggestions. Just ask her - since she's married, would she have a problem roleplaying a pregnant adventurer? It'd be a plot twist, and a hook to some cool adventures, but you won't force it on her - it's her character after all. Sidebar the issue with her so you guys can run it as a sudden plot device on the other players. She'll never be the wiser, and the others even less so. As for the effects of pregnancy? I'd simply run it this way: Every three months' equivalent of human term pregnancy, she loses the use of 1 point of dex bonus. She also gains a +1 to charisma checks as well as look, listen and spot per three months. All disappearing shortly after childbirth. :)
Edymnion 05-03-04, 08:42 PM	Originally posted by Daldolin15 Alrighty, I'll have to think of a way to ask her without giving too much away...Thanks for the suggestions. I agree, just tell her. "Hi, I've got a plot hook that depends on your character being pregnant. Is this okay with you?" You don't have to give her your campaign notes and tell her every last detail. Just tell her that you want to make her character pregnant. If she agrees, then you're set. If not, then you have to find another way. You should NEVER force anything on a character that fundamentally alters said character without expressed permission of the character's Player. I know that if a DM pulled that sort of thing on me, I would retire the character on the spot since you already took it upon yourself to turn it into an NPC without my permission, and roll up a new character. If I was feeling generous. If there were other games I could join, I would likely just leave your group as soon as you pulled it. If you don't have enough respect to allow me to play my own character, then you probably don't have enough respect for me as a Player to warrent me sticking around. Time to simply walk out and not look back. Thats the worst case senario. More likely, I'd pull the DM aside and ask him what the hell he thinks he's doing and demand an explanation. Try to work something out that suits both of us, but it would put a big rift between me and the DM, because I'd know I couldn't trust him anymore. No matter how it turned out, I would have lost a lot of respect for the DM, both as a person and as a Dungeon Master. Thats how I would react if a DM pulled this kind of stunt on me out of the blue. Aka, you better ask permission from the player before you pull something like this. NOTHING good can come from just springing it outta nowhere on them.
keyunp 05-03-04, 10:11 PM	Over all the players did agree to a 'favor' without knowing what it was. And unless you go overboard with the penalties for being pregnat, then it's no worse then say using a curse item that can not be removed before the duration is up. As a side note, I did something like this once. The party had finished clearing an ancient temple to a forgotten diety that had been infested with undead (origional I know). Afterwords each player had an individual vision with the goddess that was worshiped there. She appeared to each character, naked, under a gental warm shower and asked "Will you accept my gift?" Out of 5 players 2 said no; 1 from a female player who wasn't interested and the other was a wizard who didn't want to get Mystra jealous. The 3 characters who accepeted the 'Gift' had the best sexual experiance of their lives, and unforunatly the campaign stalled and I wasn't able to inform them that the Goddes was a Goddess of sex and ferility. Yes, the 2 male characters / players recieved the greatest gift of them all: the ability to bring a life into this world. The last player is my wife and she's still got that character around somewhere.
Daldolin15 05-03-04, 10:12 PM	Okay, cool, those are the kind of opinions I was looking for on this subject. I'll freely admit that this type of thing is way above and beyond anything else I have ever tried before, which is why I posted it here to hear what others thought. I would never just "spring" this on her, but I was just wondering if it was something completely out of the question to ask of a player. The mature boards patrons (last time I checked) just told me how to handle the stats question and did not answer on whether or not it was a good idea. I'm very happy that I decided to ask here too.
FelixTheBang 05-04-04, 08:28 PM	"You should NEVER force anything on a character that fundamentally alters said character without expressed permission of the character's Player" So I should ask a player if it's OK to kill them before I kill them? Why is it OK to kill a character (which definately alters said character) but not OK to make a character pregnant?
MoogleEmpMog 05-04-04, 09:01 PM	Originally posted by FelixTheBang "You should NEVER force anything on a character that fundamentally alters said character without expressed permission of the character's Player" So I should ask a player if it's OK to kill them before I kill them? Why is it OK to kill a character (which definately alters said character) but not OK to make a character pregnant? Because a) in the latter case, the character is still playable and b) it's not the result of a dice roll, I suppose. A better example would be, say, turning a character into a free-willed undead or lycanthrope without asking first - the PC is still playable, albiet with many more new problems than a pregnant PC, and not every player will be cool with still playing the character. Regardless, it's not a bad point. Daldolin DID say that character in question is married in-campaign, so it should be expected to crop up sooner or later. Still, it would probably work better if he does ask first.
nick012000 05-04-04, 09:02 PM	Well, you said she had a husband (IC). I would assume having a sexually active female PC is explicit permission for the DM to get said PC pregnant.
Edymnion 05-04-04, 09:06 PM	Originally posted by FelixTheBang "You should NEVER force anything on a character that fundamentally alters said character without expressed permission of the character's Player" So I should ask a player if it's OK to kill them before I kill them? Why is it OK to kill a character (which definately alters said character) but not OK to make a character pregnant? Its not okay to kill a character. It is okay to set up a situation that could kill the player if they do not prepare for it, or if they rush in where wise men fear to tread. Just walking up and saying "Your character is dead. He just had a massive heart attack from all those years of eating mutton and drinking ale. Roll up a new character." is NOT kosher. The player has the option of whether or not they want to enter a fight. They have the choice on whether or not they want to enter a dangerous area. Dropping a child on a character isn't just a temporary curse that will go away and things will be just like they used to be, just like getting pregnant in real life doesn't just "go away". It causes a fundamental change in who you are to have a child. If you keep it, or you get rid of it, thats a massive alteration to make. It simply isn't something you force onto a player without their permission. This is a GAME. A game is ment to be fun. It is not fun to have the DM rip control of your character out of your hands and just start rewriting them however they see fit. The DM has absolute and final word over what happens to his gaming world. The Player has absolute and final word over what happens to their character, its simple as that. The DM cannot force the character to take certain classes, they cannot force the character to do something against the player's will (short of magical effects like Domination), they cannot just arbitrarily bend the character over. No more than the Player can tell the DM how his world works. Killing a character is still the Player's choice, because they chose to enter the dangerous situation. It really does bother me to see people getting such a kick over screwing with somebody else's stuff. I mean, how would you feel if the DM just told you that an orc walks up to you in a bar and neuters your character? No chance to defend yourself, no regeneration spells in the campaign world, your character is just going to be a eunich for the rest of his life. No mechanical penalties, you just don't have any :censored: anymore. You'd be totally ticked at the guy, and you'd have every right to be! Same thing here. Pregnancy is going to be a major, life altering event for the character, and it is something that MUST be discussed with the character's Player before you do it. Its just common decensy.
scott644 05-04-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by FelixTheBang Why is it OK to kill a character (which definately alters said character) but not OK to make a character pregnant? Well, when a PC gets killed, they're generally presumed to have gotten themselves into the situation in the first place, accepting the odds. Permission already given. Meanwhile, when making a PC pregnant, that's a long-term condition with even longer potential circumstances. It represents numerous adjustments to character capabilities, and a lifetime's worth of responsibilities (and potential plot hooks). If a player is going to be made into such a plot device, they definately deserve to be asked their permission first.
FelixTheBang 05-04-04, 09:12 PM	Originally posted by nick012000 Well, you said she had a husband (IC). I would assume having a sexually active female PC is explicit permission for the DM to get said PC pregnant. Ditto. Don't TELL her she is pregnant (boring), start with morning sickness and work you way through it... see how long it takes the player (or other players) to work out what is wrong :smirk: As a nice twist though, perhaps she hasn't slept with her hubby coz she has been out on the road adventuring, so when she does work out that she is pregnant she is left wondering HOW??? some great role-playing opportunities there :)
FelixTheBang 05-04-04, 09:34 PM	Originally posted by scott644 Well, when a PC gets killed, they're generally presumed to have gotten themselves into the situation in the first place, accepting the odds. Permission already given. Meanwhile, when making a PC pregnant, that's a long-term condition with even longer potential circumstances. It represents numerous adjustments to character capabilities, and a lifetime's worth of responsibilities (and potential plot hooks). If a player is going to be made into such a plot device, they definately deserve to be asked their permission first. The same could be said for this situation though... The characters got themselves into a situation where they cut a deal with some mysterious being of great power, the consequences? the being magically impregnates the female character will a baby diety! Is that fair on the player? perhaps not, but life isn't fair either and I find that you need to potrait your game-environment in the same way to make it more believable, to make it seem more like a living breathing world and less like a rigid world based on rules and dice rolls. In the campaign I run I am always throwing surprises like these at my players (some detrimental to individual players or even the whole party and others quite the opposite!) and they seem to really like that :) I don't consult my players on things like that because it would ruin the surprise. They in turn trust me to keep the game entertaining. This works for my group but that doesn't mean it will work for any group so I guess what I am trying to say is that in some groups it's ok not to ask the player first and in other groups the player should definately be asked first. It's not as "Balck & White" as some people are making out here.
Edymnion 05-04-04, 09:40 PM	There is absolutely nothing stoping them from having just as much roleplaying fun AFTER she gives permission. Unless the Player is just so horribly bad at the game that she immediantly metagames everything, you can still have lots of fun playing this all out. How long do you think it will take the Player, who is female herself, to figure out whats going on when you tell her that her character is getting moody all of a sudden and throwing up every morning? Thats going to take at most one session after it starts, and then she's going to know whats going on anyway, and be ticked off that the DM pulled this on her without permission. I still say just ask her "I have a plot hook that involves your character getting pregnant. Is it okay with you if I do this?" If she says yes, then no problem, have fun with it. She knows its coming at some point in time, but you can still try and sneak it in in a way to surprise her. If she says no, then you shouldn't be doing it anyway, and you just avoided a major incident.
Daldolin15 05-06-04, 12:22 PM	Just to settle the point, I did ask her permission in an oh so careful manner, and she did not seem to mind at all. Just because I was wondering I asked her if me doing it without her permission would have upset her and she said "no". I guess to each their own. Hehehe
PSchirf 05-06-04, 01:44 PM	I don’t like to play with players who revel in evil. Making someone feel “blessed” for nourishing an infant on slaughter and negative actions isn’t my gaming style. I also like mythical births for gods, such as the births of Athena or Thoth, and reworked them to fit my game mythos. If you’re intending Sekmet to give birth to an actual divine being perhaps you could make the result even more mystical. This would remove the need to force players to protect an evil being when they may not want the game to go in that direction. You could make Sekmet give birth on the battlefield and then have the infant grow to what would appear to be about puberty age within seconds. He/she could then bow to Sekmet and then disappear, leaving the players more open to decide on how to deal with the issue. Then again, are you attempting to turn Sekmet into more of a motherly figure and less of a killing machine? If you’ve already told the player she is pregnant you still have other options. You could just make the child a “normal elf” but special in some other way. Perhaps it really is the child of the elf Sekmet and her elven husband, but it has been cursed in a way that if it is sacrificed to the forgotten deity then the deity will regain power. This turns the game into a situation of protection and a need to do good to protect the world from more evil. And while I’m trying to change the way you play… Instead of being a variant spelling of Sakhmet, the Egyptian goddess, Sekmet could be a variant pronunciation of Salkmit, which is elvish (Tolkien variety) for internal dance, representing a spiritual conflict. Or perhaps it’s Sarkmuat, flesh of interest, which would be a prophetic connection to the above plotlines.
Daldolin15 05-06-04, 05:32 PM	Well I use the term blessed very jokingly as its not exactly a good deity (Heh, why else would it be born from slaughter?). Also the player who plays Sekmet chose that name specifically from its Egyptian origin on purpose. However, it is just an interesting coincidence that they are both somewhat bloodthirsty.
PSchirf 05-07-04, 07:44 AM	Basically in my campaign there exists a female PC (played by a female player) who is an elf fighter named Sekmet. Now if you have ever heard of the Egyptian Goddess Sekmet (I may be mispelling the name) you would know that she was a bloody warrior who almost destroyed all of mankind and did so with glee. This player plays her elf much like this taking great relish in battle and slaying many of her opponents without any hesitation. [and later in the same post] From there the child will do fun little things that make the mortals around her think she is "blessed" or a "prophetess" eventually forming a cult base large enough to give her enough worshippers to become a diety. [and then in the last post] Well I use the term blessed very jokingly as its not exactly a good deity.The word Blessed means Holy; worthy of worship or veneration. It doesn't sound like you were saying it jokingly, given that you intend to have people worship the obviously evil child of someone who they nicknamed Bloody Maiden. Also the player who plays Sekmet chose that name specifically from its Egyptian origin on purpose. However, it is just an interesting coincidence that they are both somewhat bloodthirsty.That's like saying "he named himself Lucifer on purpose because of it's scriptural origin, but it's just an interesting coincidence that they are both somewhat evil." So first, I'd like to know what you think of the idea. The campaign is not "mature" persayYou summed it up yourself; I think the idea is immature.
Millennium 05-07-04, 10:32 AM	It's a fairly interesting idea plot-wise, but it's not one that can be allowed to go unspoiled. This is hardcore stuff, and there is no way you should be going through this without making absolutely certain that the player is completely and totally fine with it. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like you've started this plotline yet, which is a Good Thing; you can still tell the player about this idea. Otherwise, you might find yourself forced to either abandon the campaign or Deus Ex Machina the whole thing away, if it turns out that she's not comfortable with this.
Mialaurient 05-07-04, 11:01 AM	Well it sounds like the player is ok with becoming pregnant. My big question is do you want to make this character a major focal point in your game? Having a pregnant character already brings a lot of focus to her. One that is pregnant and gives birth to a godling, even more so. I've played a character in a game who was impregnanted by a god, and it did end up in some gaming group strife because I wasn't exactly happy with the way it worked and some of the group was a little jealous of the attention paid to the character. Laurient
Daldolin15 05-07-04, 11:18 AM	First to Millennium , I've already asked her as the other posters told me I should and she told me she is perfectly fine being pregnant for a time. PSchirf I'm not quite sure which aspect of the idea you not liking. At first I thought it was because I had not explained the last part of my idea quite properly so I'll that again. When I say that the daughter will be thought of as blessed its because she will do things such as giving the PCs army good luck in battles, she will survive catastrophes that kill others around her, and she will make predictions that will come true. These things in and of themselves are not evil but simply stem from her divine nature. Once she gets enough people listening to her (which will take a healthy chunk of time) then she can start goading them into slightly less holy acts all in the name of rightousness. It will be a gradual process. I hope that explains it a little better. The people call Sekmet "Bloody Maiden" but depending on who says it, they are either cursing or praising. The PCs in my campaign are lords of a small track of land in a VERY unfriendly world. She is violent but because of her and the other PCs the people on their land have remained safe despite horrible things happening. To the people (and especially her soldiers) she is a hero who has accomplished great deeds. The truth is of course that is somewhat less than that but overall her people don't see her as evil. Perhaps I can also explain the PCs name a little better. The player is into Egyptian mythology and named her character after a goddess she knew existed. However, none of us at that point (over a year ago) knew what the goddess sekmet was famous for beyond being some type of warrior. It was only later we found the irony about how close the two actually were. Now I'm not quite sure where that immature comment came from but I'll choose to ignore it for now. When I asked if the idea was "mature" I was refering to the Mature Discussion boards which deal with stuff like the BoVD, sex in game, and torture. My game does not and will not include gratitous sex, and really has not reached a point where I've had to describe in details babies impaled on spikes. So it don't consider it to be a "mature" game in that sense. It does in fact include many other interesting things though such as constant moral dillemas and "good guys" who may have less interest in the common person than the "bad guys". My wizard said it best when he said jokinly to me that the people they are fighting against seem to act more like a corparation than a BBEG. EDIT: Mialaurient, one of the reasons I chose to do this was because currently player feels that the party only thinks of her as the walking killing machine. She has a little bit of trouble role-playing as she is shy and some group members are very charismatic and tend to take over situations. This will move her into a different light for the party I believe as they'll say "Oh, thats right, under all that armor its a girl!" :)
PSchirf 05-07-04, 12:03 PM	I'll try to present what I'm attempting to say a different way also. I’m saying this as a man who goes home at night to a woman who is pregnant with our fifth child; I think you’re going down a dangerous and, in the non-insulting meaning on the word, immature path when you attempt to kindle a sense of motherhood in a female player and then have the child turn out to be supernaturally evil. Based on the last comments you made, if you're looking for the girl under the armor then you should consider turning the idea around and have the infant be good, not evil. Having the evil forces need the infant to be a sacrifice to return a dead demigod to power gives the female player a new aspect of her character to explore. If you make her child evil you only reinforce the negative role she find herself in now. But if you're stuck on the idea then be upfront with the player. Say “I was thinking about a plot line where you either give birth to an infant who can save the world from a lot of this misery or one where you would give birth to something like a demon, complete with sinister motives and supernatural intelligence. Oh, and the thing has the power to make you love it. ” This way if the player rejects the idea of the demon baby then you’ll have time to rework the story. Giving the player the option between two plot lines removes the feeling that she may be ruining work you've already done. If the player gets excited about the idea of having an evil child then perhaps it is time to think about what type of "game" you’re playing.
Daldolin15 05-07-04, 07:13 PM	Well for the most part, I really don't make moral judgements on how the PCs resolve their problems, I just enforce the rules and continue the story in the direction they want. If the party were ever to turn evil then thats the way the game goes, but it would not be because I in particular forced it to go that way. For example, when the party was told that a young boy had been kidnapped by strange ogres they took almost a day to decide to help save him (even after discovering he had a celestial nature). When they returned they grumbled because most of them did see any advantage for themselves in doing so*. In this case the adventure was designed for good heros, but the PCs themselves brought in the moral dilemas. If its the idea of a morally neutral bordering on evil campaign that is irking you then I don't know if I can really take many of your ideas to heart because I don't want to steer the PCs in any moral direction. However, what you mentioned about the child being innocent and a sacrafice does catch my attention. I think its an interesting idea and I might end up using that as it brings up a huge problem for the party. I mainly made this thread to get opinions and in doing so I'll admit I'm not dead set on my original idea, I'm only considering it. So then, by your idea eventually the mysterious being would return and explain that the daughter is meant to be used as a sacrafice (perhaps a vessel?) for the dead goddess. The party will dislike this, of course, but then again they made a deal before asking the specific terms...So then, in what ways could I try to keep them bound to the terms (nothing inescapable of course)? Perhaps, bound their lives to that of the child so if they fail to sacrafice her at the appointed time they will all forfeit their souls? Should the child still have some kind of powers to make her special? Hehe, so many questions so little time. *Just as a note, when I say the PCs grumble I really mean the characters are grumbling, none of my actual players have ever complained about the campaign.
MageofMyth 05-07-04, 08:01 PM	I agree with Mialaurient, on quite a few issues. I once played in a game where another PC became pregnant, and frankly it was boring for the rest of us. You are making the game revolve around one character, which makes the others obsolete. Be careful. Our group broke up, because we were basically NPCs of the other character. The DM still doesn’t understand why we refuse to play with him, unless he promises to never do it again.
keyunp 05-07-04, 09:29 PM	Here's an idea: Do you remember Zena, and the way her child was evil and then became good? Have this child grow up wanting to have followers and gaining power, but being evil is the easiest and quickest way. Allow the PC's the ability to try and change the childs methods/mind and aim for good. SO as DM you know that whatever happens if the child is evil (even a little bit) then she will have more power and followers then if she was good. But the trouble is that the mysterous being needs a godess quickly and either uses the PC's kid if she has lots of power or has to sacrifice her to raise a different god.
MoogleEmpMog 05-08-04, 01:34 AM	I've played in campaigns that had a PC (or even NPC) "main character" so-to-speak, sometimes as the main, sometimes not, and enjoyed both. If the story is interesting and my PC gets the chance to do his thing, whatever that may be, I don't care if another character is more central to the plot. For instance, Aragorn was the main character for his half of LotR, but I'd just as soon play Gimli in an RPG. But then, I also don't care about 'evenly divided treasure' or 'everyone getting equal face time' in an RPG. From the sounds of it, Daldolin and his players have a similar group to those I've gamed with, so it may not be a problem for them.
Daldolin15 05-08-04, 01:36 PM	Hmm, so many conflicting opinions on this one, I'm really going to think it over more.
Aurotuli 05-08-04, 11:25 PM	The newborn will want to live, so while she is pregnant have her immune to death effects and death vs massive damage. She might also gain immunity to poison and disease, and a bonus vs mind affecting effects? Perhaps she also (unknowingly) gains 1 hp each time she causes damage against an enemy? Just some ideas to consider. As to the baby, I cannot recall you actually stating that it will be evil - just non-good and associated with combat and maybe slaughter. I'm guessing a True Neutral deity of combat. The Ends Justifies the Means type of combat deity, with a bit of a penchant for violence and not too strong a desire to promote good (or evil, for that matter). Initially you can grant it the Paragon template from the ELH. Trust me, it won't need fudged rolls to survive when it has +15 to each ability (use the elite array to start with, thus granting a 30 to the highest ability and a 23 to the lowest stat) in addition to everything else a Paragon gains. After it grows up stack on the Divine Rank 0 template (gains little at this point, as the Paragon has better or nearly as good in most areas). Worshippers and it gains DivR 1 and several interesting abilities (such as spell-like at will abilities, don't forget the +15 to caster level for being a paragon!:)). Have you decided on the portfolio of the deity? Its domains? Will the protodeity remember its former past? Have class levels from before? Some more information like this and we can give more specific advice. It does sound like an interesting campain, I must admit. :)
Daldolin15 05-10-04, 03:37 PM	Yeah, the more and more I think about this the more it sounds like a full-blown campaign :u: . Oh well, I'll have to see how the PCs take it. Aurotuli, your ideas are very interesting and if I choose to have the child be the deity as I originally planned I think thats definetly the way it should progress. However, I'm coming up a bit short on proper portfolios for the little godling. I know Combat, or War would be one but I don't want to give her Slaughter. Mainly this is because Erythull (horribly mispelled, sorry) is a big influence in this world and I don't want to have her just be a bad copy of him. The FR gods have a lot of portfolios can anyone think of a good one that would fit? I'm thinking of letting the deity remember her own past (making it that much easier for her to regain her position). On the other hand the cogs in my head have been moving and it also may be a good idea for me to have her not remember everything at first. This may give the PCs enough time to turn her to good. Hmm, so many aspects undecided yet...but I guess that why I keep posting here!
Aurotuli 05-12-04, 03:47 AM	Hmm, some ideas come to mind. It is said somewhere that lost memories of previous lives can be found on the astral plane. Granted, it was talking about petitioners, not deities, but why not apply the same logic? Perhaps the petrified remains of her former divine body is somewhere in the astral, and should she come into contact with it she will regain her lost memories (perhaps gaining class levels, etc in the process). She is raised good, but her former life was evil. Upon touching those petrified remains she regains her memories of her previous existance, and the good and evil fuse to become neutrality. Thus the challenge for the players is to raise her from TN (as she starts out as a baby) to NG, so that when she regains her memories she will not slide into evil. Possible Domains: Death (the result of combat?) Destruction (slaughter of objects?) Domination (reason for combat, to dominate?) Fate (inevitability of combat?) Fire (an aspect/means of combat, a personality statement: destructive but appealing/fascinating?) Glory (a reason for combat, what is sought?) Luck (in combat?) Metal (most weapons tend to be made of this?) Planning (for the generals and warlords of combat?) Protection (reason for combat? protect your holdings, etc?) Retribution (reason for combat?) Suffering (a result of combat?) Tyrant (a reason for combat?) Possible combinations (with War as the third; * my favorates): Death, Destruction, War: This is a deity of wanton slaughter, a deity that encourages slaying all enemies, destroying cities rather than conquering them, salting fields rather than capturing them, etc. The enemy is a diseased limb to be removed totally. Death, Fate, War: Death and War are inevitable, and one always leads to the other. This is a deity that not so much sponcers war as sees it as part of a cycle. Dying in battle is a good death. Not necessarily a valorous one, but a good one none the less. This deity is more passive then active, as it sees itself more as an observer and maintainer of the cycle than as a participant of it. * Death, Fire, War: War is like Fire, ever shifting, ever changing. It fascinates from afar yet harms when near. It is difficult to predict, both beneficial and hurtful in all its outcomes. This deity can good, evil, or neutral depending on how she is portrayed: a pyro who uses fire to define war and bring death (evil), a charismatic battlemaid who leads her troops into combat (neutral or good, depending), etc. Death, Retribution, War: War is a means to an end. The end is revenge in the form of death. A neutral or evil deity for this combination, I think. An eye for an eye type deity. Death, Suffering, War: War is defined by the death and suffering that accompany it. This deity encourages these aspects of war, either as a means to prevent war (look at what it causes! neutral) or as a means to an end: more suffering and death (evil). Domination, Fate, War: Might makes Right, would be this deity's motto. The general with the best / most troops is fated to win. War is a worthy enterprise on its own, but the domination that comes with / from it is a major reward bestowed by fate upon those willing to rise to the challenge of War. * Domination, Glory, War: War is about winning glory and acclaim and gaining dominance over one's enemies. This deity could be of any AL: war is a noble enterprise, domination allows one to defeat enemies without slaying them (good), war is a glorious enterprise met by the bold; domination over one's foes awaits those that succeed (neutral or evil), war is a means to dominate others and gain acclaim / glory for oneself (likely evil due to selfishness, etc). Domination, Planning, War: War is an important aspect of life that can only be won through careful planning. Its purpose is usually one of domination over others, and the manipulation / domination of others is an important tactic / strategy to consider when planning a war. Domination, Protection, War: Domination is a means to peacefully wage war for the sake of protecting your holdings / allies / etc. Domination, Tyrant, War: War is a means to dominate others and take the land holdings you crave. * Fate, Glory, War: War is inevitable, and the best you can hope for is that your acclaim / glory lives on after your death in battle. * Fate/Planning, Luck, War: Combat is an important aspect of life, won equally by chance and destiny/careful planning. (either fate or planning, not both in this example! ) Fate, Planning, War: War is won through careful planning, but in the end it is the will of the deities (fate) that determine's the outcome of a war. Those who plan best are more worthy of surviving and thus are more likely to receive the blessing of the gods when war is upon them. * Fate, Retribution, War: An eye for an eye. It is not only the right way, it is the fated way. Those who have harmed you must be revenged upon for the balance of fate to be set aright. It is not only your right but your duty to avenge the wrongs made against you (or those you hold dear). This, while seemingly best for a more evil than good deity, could be neutral in that avengers against evil doers might also fall under this idea: The hero is fated to avenge the wrongs made against those unable to defend themselves. This retribution via combat is his destiny. * Fire, Glory, War: Charismatic leaders, undead slaying, etc work well with this combination. The deity is supremely charismatic, and like a moth to the flame her followers gather to her so as to follow her into combat. * Fire, Luck, War: To survive war you must be like fire, ever flickering out the path of harm, ever unpredictable in your movements, etc. The deity blesser her followers with the luck to be like flame and thus avoid harm. Of course, fire is also a preferred weapon in combat. Fire, Metal, War: The smith that forges weapons for war. Enough said. Fire, Protection, War: Walls of fire offer protection from the enemies, protection from the cold of winter, etc. It is also an effective weapon to hold off if not slay the enemies of those you wish to protect. Fire, Retribution, War: War is waged to revenge old hurts, and fire is both a weapon of choice and a symbol of the burning need to avenge the wrongs done to you, your ancestors, your allies, ancestors, etc. Fire, Suffering, War: War is about suffering, and nothing aids in that more than fire. An evil combination, I fail to find a good spin. Unless: A bright charismatic deity that attends to those harmed by combat, and uses the burning flames of her righteous wrath to castigate those that brought this suffering upon her followers. Hmm, still more neutral than good, but better. Glory, Protection, War: War is a noble enterprise, a chance to display valor and gain acclaim while defending those things important to you. A good deity, but I can see a neutral version: seeking glory in the sense of showing skill in combat - not in showing chivalry, seeking to protect property that may or may not truly belong to you, and using combat as a means of might makes right. Glory, Tyrant, War: Those who win the wars gain the acclaim due victors and the spoils (lands, etc) as well. Luck, Protection, War: This deity looks after her followers by granting them fortunate 'accidents' in combat. Luck, Retribution, War: Combat is a means of gaining vengence, and luck aids those foolhardy enough to seek vengence (such as heros, etc). Planning, Retribution, War: War is about well planned attacks made to gain victory over those that have harmed you in the past. Planning, Tyrant, War: War is a means of gaining lands, etc and it must be carefully planned to succeed. Retribution, Suffering, War: War is about bringing the suffering you endured upon those that caused your suffering. Another eye for an eye type deity. --- So what type of lady is your deity? Is she the charismatic type (fire, glory domination, tyrant could work well), the retributive type (retribution, suffering, planning could work well), the destroying death goddess type (death, destruction, fire, suffering could work well), the more passive type (fate, planning, protection could work well), or what exactly? Oh, and is she chaotic, lawful, or neutral? I would guess true neutral upon birth, but what was she before that (as that can affect her domains). For instance, I cannot see a Lawful deity with Luck or a Chaotic deity with Fate or Planning. My favorates idea (not necessarily including War as a domain) are as follows: * Charm/Domination, Fire, Glory: She is charismatic, her followers drawn to her like moths toward the flame. She uses war as a means of glorifying her worshippers. They prove their worth by how willing they are to die for her causes. Replace Domination with Charm for a gentler, subler (manipulating rather than commanding) deity. * Fire, Luck, Retribution: She is the deity of those with a burning heart, a heart devoted to righting the wrongs committed against themselves and others. To those that will take the risk of facing overwhelming odds she grants luck so as to even the odds. Passion, a desire to avenge, and a willingness to face overwhelming odds are held in high esteem by her. * Luck, Protection, Retribution: Sometimes the only way to protect others from their persecuting foes is to avenge them. She grants luck &/or protection to her followers, but she is best known for blessing those that are willing to rise up against their oppressors. Her people were long oppressed, and she blesses those that are willing to avenge the harms done against her followers with luck and protection. Domination, Glory, Tyrant: She is the deity of those that ever seek personal acclaim and ever desire to dominate and rule over others. * Death, Glory, Protection: The best death is a death in combat, fighting for what you believe in, fighting to protect that which is valuable to you (your family, your lands, your soverign, &/or your reputation, etc). She encourages combat as a means to an end: a glorious death, a death worth having and experiencing. She is against meaningless deaths. Death, to her, is as important a facet of life as birth.
dantedarkstar 05-12-04, 10:54 AM	I was just thinking about how much really character could influence what will happen. And came with following: If this will be "deity from long ago" with set domains and alignment, the player COULD (I do not say it will, but it's possibility, even if not probable) feel powerless. By the very nature/child's powers, she has to love and protect the child, and therefore will work to promote that set goals want it or not. What if the "being" that made the deal planted this strands of divine essence to practically grown a new god. Of course, since this "being" would want to turn the child into the image he wants. But this allows player to affect her fate. She can change things. Of course, since let's say the "deity from long ago" was evil, etc. the divine essence in the child will be naturally biased toward evil. But the divine essence is only essence. It can be shaped/changed. So as the child grows up, depending on upbringing, she could turn even good. This way, player's decisions have impact (even large) on what happens. As a player, I would be always happy if my actions could really change things, campaign, world... Besides, you have as much hooks as you want for future, since the "being" will interfere if it's plans aren't working, and for example the child is drifting towards good. That manipulations would have to be subtle of course. You can't really go against a god, even if she's still a child. That child could have power to defy his direct influence, so that all would be subtle (and thus players could really stop it or something, dunno how powerful is that "being"). And if the child will finally turn out good (let's assume for a second), you can always have final battle with the "being", where it tries to kill the child and of course her mother, plus probably rest of the party. With child's divine protection, the party perhaps could go against the "being" (for example the child would block most of the powers of that "being" with some kind of godly antimagic field of sorts; remember to not make the child the star there, she can help with such protection, but it should be party fighting). Well, anyway, that's my (0.1*sqrt(2))^2 $ Edit: Seems like Aurotuli had similar idea, but I didn't have enough endurance to read his incredibly long post.
Aurotuli 05-12-04, 10:55 PM	The former deity: - was charismatic, a battlemaid that rushed readily into combat. Her domains are Charm (or Dominion), Fire, Glory, War. Previously she was neutral with evil tendencies, for she sought to start wars just for the enjoyment of participating in them or to give her followers an opportunity to enjoy the heady rush from combat and die gloriously. Now she is awakening to her previous talents. She is charismatic (Cha 30) and gets a rush from seeing / being involved in combat situations. She might be guided to focus on the enjoyment of fighting well and the glory that comes with dying for a good cause. She is vivacious, curious, and eager to participate in a variety of adventures. She draws others to her like a moth to the flame, and she encourages them to fight to the death for her causes. Brd / Bbn (or Ftr) / Sor - was a cautious planner, rarely acting without careful deliberation. This was, in fact, her downfall, for she acted to late to stop that which brought about her death. Her domains were Planning, Protection, Retribution, and War. She was devoted to the planned wars. As such, her attention was often drawn towards battles of retribution for old injuries and battles against those well prepared to resist invasion. Thus, her portfolio dealt with Sieges, Revenge, and Strategy. A slow decisive victory was more important to her than a fast haphazardous one. Glory in battle was not to longed after, for the best battle was one won before the first clash of troops. In sieges she might be called to protect those within or to aid the planning of those without. In matters of revenge she might be called to aid in the planning of retribution against old insults and injuries. She cared little for why her followers went to war, so long as they planned ahead and fought for a cause (rather than for reputation or to gain plunder). She was True Neutral with strong leanings towards law and minor leanings towards evil (due to encouraging war, revenge, etc). Clr / Ftr / Wiz - delighted in slaughter and destruction. Her domains were Death, Destruction, Suffering, and War. She was the deity who focused on the negative aspects of war. Needless death of non-combatents, the suffering all had to endure, and the rampant destruction that often followed in the wake of war were her portfolio elements. She ever encouraged war, in the hopes that war would ever raise her portfolio elements to new heights. Turned toward good, she might become more surgical in her focus: using death and destruction to rid the world of those that would defile it, and focusing on suffering more as a symptom in need of curing than as a plight to be encouraged. This is the hardest deity to turn towards good (considering the domains), thus I would discourage this use. Personally, I would drop Death, as otherwise deities of death will likely become an issue. Likewise would I drop several other domains, leaving only the following as possibilities: Destruction (slaughter of objects?) Domination (reason for combat, to dominate?) Fire (an aspect/means of combat, a personality statement: destructive but appealing/fascinating?) Glory (a reason for combat, what is sought?) Luck (in combat?) Planning (for the generals and warlords of combat?) Protection (reason for combat? protect your holdings, etc?) Retribution (reason for combat?) Tyrant (a reason for combat?) From these I notice a certain pattern: Domination, Planning, Tyrant, War: The LE deity that supports tyrants and the idea that might makes right. The ends justifies the means might also be a motto of this deity. Fire, Glory, Luck, War: The CN deity that supports those that depend on chance to succeed in combat. She also supports charismatic leaders and those who view death in battle as the noblest death imaginable. Her strong focus on combat gained her a false reputation for enjoying slaughter. Destruction, Fire, Retribution, War: The NN deity that supports an eye for an eye. She also favors the absolute destruction of those that have harmed her or her followers in the past, fire being her preferred method. She is something of a pyro, actually. Hmm, for a little fun consider the following: Celerity, Fire, Luck, Planning, Travel, War. This deity was once very powerful, a greater deity brought low by the combined might of several other greater deities. She was known for her well planned, yet seemingly chaotic, strategies and tactics. She was as swift in movement as she was in thought, and her troops readily made use of rapid movement and unusual tactics to succeed. Part luck, part planning, her followers won more than their fair share of combats. There were no greater warlords than those found among her followers. She herself was true neutral, having no interest in why combat occurred - only that it occurred well and often. I don't like the previous, as it allows too much. Of those posted, I prefer the battlemaid idea, falsely besmirtched with a reputation for enjoying slaughter when in fact she looked down on such. She was not a greater deity, just a less deity who enjoyed her portfolio and encouraged fighting well, fighting for a cause you believe in, and dying in combat as opposed to dying in other ways. Hmm, I hope you don't mind if I create a deity write up based on this idea?
Aurotuli 05-13-04, 04:21 AM	Okay, I used a variation of my own deity creation system, so what is below is likely not usable for your campaign. However, perhaps it will give you some ideas for where you want to go. Titles: The Battlemaiden, the Bloody Maiden, the Merciful Slayer, the Singing Battlemage. Lesser Deity Symbol: golden sun with eight silver rapiers around it as rays from the sun, sometimes simplified as a golden sun with 8 silvery sun rays (lines) Home Plane: Ysgard (if you use the GW) Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Portfolio: Female combatents, Luck in Combat, Magical Melee Combat, Unlikely Survival in Combat Situations. Worshippers: female fighters (esp female battle sorcerers), combative bards, melee magic users, those wishing fortune in combat, noncombatents in a combat situation. Cleric Alignments: CE*, CN*, CG Domains: Chaos, Glory, Luck, Sun, War. Favored Weapon: Rapier * Her loathing of undead is such that her non-good clerics may only turn undead - never rebuke. Personality She enjoys the thrill of combat, the ever shifting uncertainty as to what will happen next. She admires those who are willing to take risks in combat and are willing to face difficult odds. Magic she sees as a natural part of combat, and she looks with favor upon those who find ways to use it to their advantage while in battle. Acclaim (and to a far lesser degree loot) are the rewards for winning. To die in glorious combat is the best way to die. She finds a curious enjoyment in those that fight for a cause rather than loot or acclaim as they often risk much in battle for little material gain or increase in reputation. She has been known to 'right the balance' by finding ways to increase the acclaim (whether they wish it or not) of those that did not, in her view, receive an adequet reward for the risks they took for their cause. She frowns upon those that involve noncombatents in war (particularly those unable to defend themselves), for war is a chance to gain glory through skill and luck in combat. There is no glory to be gained fighting children, the infirm, and others unable to fight back. Those who involve such in combat tend to find their luck changing for the worse shortly thereafter. Other notable facts Her enjoyment of battle has gained her a (false) reputation for bloodthirstiness. For this reason is she sometimes referred to as the Bloody Maiden. It was in part due to this reputation that an intermediate LE deity managed to convice others to aid him in combat against her - eventually slaying her. Her tendency to revenge against those who harmed numerous noncombatents gained her the title Merciful Slayer, for she was swift to change the luck in combat of those that harmed too many defenseless. Bard 20 / Battle Sorcerer 10 / Bladesinger 20 / Swashbuckler 20 / War Chanter 10 (80 HD) Medium Size Outsider (extraplanar) Divine Rank: 10 Hit Die: 20d6 + 40d8 + 20d10 + 960 (con) + 800 (paragon) (2400 hp) Initiative: +24 Speed: 60 ft AC: 110 (Dex +20, Nat +42, Insight +14, Deflection +20, Luck +4, Divine +10) Attack: +88 (BAB +70, Divine +10, Luck +8) Space/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft / 5 ft *Saves: Fort +63, Refl +76, Will +66. *Abilities: Str 38 (+14), Dex 50 (+20), Con 34 (+12), Int 40 (+15), Wis 31 (+10), Cha 50 (+20). Skills (483 brd, 170 sor, 340 bls, 380 swa, 190 wch): Feats (39): Special Attacks: Domain Powers, Salient Divine Abilities, Spell-Like Abilities Special Qualities: Deific realm, Divine Immortality, Divine Immunities, DN 14/-, DR 38/+10 Lawful Cold Iron, Fast Healing 40, Greater Teleport at will, Immune (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire), Plane Shift at will, Read worshipper languages (past and present), Remote communication, Resistance 42 (Force/Sonic), Speak directly to any/all being(s) within 10 miles, Spontaneous casting of divine spells, Understand & Speak all languages. Class Specials (Bard / War Chanter): Bardic Lore (+35 to lore checks), Bardic Music / War Chants 30/day; Combine Songs, Bardic Songs: (Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +4, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Inspire Greatness, Song of Freedom, Inspire Heroics, Mass Suggestion); War Chants: (Inspire Toughness, Inspire Recklessness, Inspire Awe, Singing Shout, Inspire Legion) Class Specials (Battle Sorcerer / Blade Singer): Cast as 20th level Battle Sorcerer, Greater Eschew Materials (bonus feat); +10 caster levels (battle sorcerer), Bladesinger Style (while using a rapire/ longsword in one hand and nothing in the other, gain a dodge bonus equal to class level but no higher than Int), Greater Spellsong (ignore arcane failure for light armor), Lesser Spellsong (can take 10 when using Concentraton to cast defensively while using a rapier/ longsword in one hand and nothing in the other), Song of Celerity (once per day can cast a spell of up to 10th level as if quickened without changing spell slot or casting time), Song of Fury (gain extra attack if using rapier/ longsword, but with -2 to all attacks that round), Class Specials (Swashbuckler): Weapon Finesse (bonus feat), Acrobatic Charge (can charge over terrain that would normally slow her movement & charge over allies (using jump/tumble when appropriate)), Acrobatic Skill Mastery (can take 10 on Jump/Tumble even if distracted), Dodge Bonus +4 (as dodge feat), Grace +3 (bonus to reflex saves when in no/light armor &/or carrying less than a medium load), Improved Flanking (gain +4 rather than +2 when flank), Insightful Strike (+Int to dmg when using finessable weapon), Lucky (once per day may reroll any roll just failed), Slippery Mind (extra chance on following round to resist enchantment spell/effect), Weakening Critical (critical hits also deal 2 Str dmg), Wounding Critical (critical hits also deal 2 Con dmg). Divine Immunities: Deities are immune to: ability damage, ability drain, death effects, disease, disintegration, energy drain, mind affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, and bannishment. Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Arcane Mastery, Battlesense, Divine Bard, Divine Blessing (dex, cha), Divine Dodge, Divine Fast Healing, Divine Fire Mastery, Divine Inspiration, Divine Shield, Divine Spellcasting, Irresistable Blow (rapier), Irresistable Performance, Power of Luck, Spontaneous Wizard Spells, Supreme Initiative. In addition to the typical one per rank, deities receive for free one for every class they have 20+ level in, one for for each divine category above demideity, alter reality, and divine blessing for any ability score 50+. Domain Powers: Cast Chaos spells at +1 caster level, +2 to turning checks & +1d6 to turning dmg, reroll a failed roll 10/day, may use Greater Turning 10/day as Clr 32, Weapon Focus (rapier, bonus feat). Spell-Like Abilities: She uses these abilities at will as a 30th level caster, except for chaos spells which she casts as a 31st level caster. The save DC is 40 + spell level (as shown following the spell). Aid (2), Animate Objects (6), Blade Barrier (6), Bless Weapon (2), Bolt of Glory (6), Break Enchantment (5), Chaos Hammer (4), Cloak of Chaos (8), Crown of Glory (8), Dispel Law (5), Disrupt Undead (1), Divine Power (4), Endure Elements (1), Entropic Shield (1), Fire Seeds (6), Fire Shield (4), Flame Strike (5), Freedom of Movement (4), Gate (9), Heat Metal (2), Magic Circle against Law (3), Magic Vestment (3), Magic Weapon (1), Miracle (9), Mislead (6), Moment of Prescience (8), Power Word Blind (7), Power Word Kill (9), Power Word Stun (8), Prismatic Sphere (9), Protection from Energy (3), Protection from Law (1), Searing Light (3), Shatter (2), (chaos) Smite (4), Spell Turning (7), Spiritual Weapon (2), Summon Monster IX (9, chaos only), Sunbeam (7), Sunburst (8), (chaos) Sword (5), Word of Chaos (7). Bard Spells per Day: Battle Sorcerer Spells per Day: Possessions: Starflame, a +10 Defending Everdancing Fiery Blast Chaos Power Dread (undead) Rapier. This potent major artifact was created for her by a greater deity ally. It was lost when she was slain, but once she regains her divinity she will be able to view this weapon via Remote Viewing (unless a deity of greater power is intent on continuously blocking her). Other Divine Powers Senses: She perceives through her sense to a distance of ten miles. As a standard action she can perceive with her senses up to ten miles around any of her worshippers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of her titles or name was spoken in the last hour. She can extend her sense to up to ten locations at once. She can block the sensing powers of deities her rank and lower at up to ten locations at once for up to ten hours. Portfolio Powers: Whenever five hundred or more combatents in a battle are female &/or using magic in melee combat, she is aware of it. Whenever a crowd of five hundred or more who are about to enter combat speak allowed their desire for fortune to favor them in battle she is aware of it. Furthermore, whenever a bard performing for a crowd of five hundred or more recounts a tale of combat she is aware of it. Finally, whenever five hundred or more non-combatents are threatened with death or worse in a single combative encounter she is aware of it. Automatic Actions: She can use any dexterity or charisma based skill as a free action if the DC is 25 or lower. She can perform up to ten such free actions per round. Create Magic Items: She can create any finesseable weapon, any light armor, and any non-artifact magic item that can be used in combat &/or that deals with influencing others. *Ability scores, and their method of generation: A B B C C D E Str 12 +4 +8 +10 +2 +2 38 (+14) Dex 14 +4 +8 +10 +8 +6 50 (+20) Con 10 +4 +8 +10 +0 +2 34 (+12) Int 13 +4 +8 +10 +2 +1 40 (+15) Wis 8 +4 +8 +10 +0 +1 31 (+10) Cha 15 +4 +8 +10 +8 +6 50 (+20) A: Initial Ability scores (elite array) B: Paragon +4 enhancement bonus (does not stack with other forms of enhancement) B: Paragon +8 inherent bonus C: Divine bonus (+ Divine Rank to each ability score) C: Divine bonus (+ 2ce divine rank in pts (20 pts) added as inherent bonuses wherever wished) D: Inherent bonuses (due to increases every 4th level: 20 pts) E: Final Ability Scores *Saves, and their method of determination: Svs A B C D E class results F G H I J Fort - - - o o 30(17)/50(16) 33 +8 +10 +12 63 Refl - o o - o 60(32)/20(6) 38 +8 +10 +20 76 Will o o o o - 60(32)/20(6) 38 +8 +10 +10 66 A: saves for Battle Sorcerer: Will good B: saves for Blade Singer: Reflex and Will good C: saves for Bard: Refl and Will good D: saves for War Chanter: Fort and Will good (I added Will as it makes sense due to Bards also getting Will.) E: saves for Swashbuckler: Fort and Refl good (I added Refl as it makes sense.) F: Final results for class progression base saves G: bonus to saves due to paragon template: +8 luck H: bonus to saves due to divinity: +divine rank (10) I: bonus to saves due to ability (con, dex, wis) J: Final Results