Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sybill 09-16-05, 11:04 PM	I'll be running an adventure for a group of about 12th ECL characters, and wanted to do something tactical as opposed to "go in and kill everything." So here's the situation: The local lord has stolen all the livestock and most of the food of his peasant folk, and has holed himself up in a fort with his soldiers and a mage with enough food to last him quite a while. Mind you, this is during a horrible famine. His people are starving, and want someone to go in and get the food back. However, the fort is, obviously, heavily guarded, and anyone suspicious approaching (which includes the monstrous pcs) can be shot a while before they get to the keep. The keep is in a forested area, though much has been cleared away. Basically, I'm wondering how to put in a "back door" and reward my Pcs for some good thinking and planning as opposed to smashing. Any ideas? BTW, the party consists of a Thri-keen monk, a minotaur barbarian, a very young dragon rogue (who can turn himself into a little boy), a cervidal warmage, and a durzegar (or something like that) fighter, so sneaking in dressed as servants is kinda out of the question.
l33t Shinobi 09-16-05, 11:09 PM	well, if the fort is well built and thought out, as anyone with over 100k to spend on it would, then it should be impossible to get in a "back door". the mage could cast disguise person, or the rouge could sneak in as a servant boy and assassinate the guards on a section of wall, so the PC's could climb in, but a "back door" is infeasible. sry
Sybill 09-16-05, 11:12 PM	Really, I used the term "back door" here in a figurative sense. I'm just trying to think of ways to reward them for good thinking without it seeming too contrived.
Fixxxer 09-16-05, 11:22 PM	If they are driving several goats or cows in front of them and claim that these are a gift to the lord, then they're likely to be let in, even if it's under heavy guard.
BRJN 09-17-05, 12:15 AM	To get into Richard the Lion-hearted's "ultimate fortress" in Normandy, the King of France began a standard siege. This was cover for some guys to climb into, and dig out, the latrine (which was set into the side of a wall). This gave them access to the inside of the living quarters. Fort Michimilimacinac MI was built overlooking the harbor. Even today, 200 years later, it is an impressive construction (and a tough climb up from the docks). However, the fort did not include the small hill overlooking the back. In 1812, British and Indian forces landed a cannon on the other side of the island, pulled it on top of the hill at night, and at daylight started shooting INTO the fort from above and behind. The fort surrendered by noon. In Biblical times, King Hezekiah had a tunnel dug through solid rock from inside the city to a spring just outside the walls. Then the spring was covered over with a solid rock ceiling and enough dirt on top of that to grow grass. By next year, the spring was undetectable from outside the city. If the lord's fort were built on a hill with a cave underneath... A traitor in the castle could be paid to leave the door ajar at night. Forests produce a lot of leaves, roots, berries, and things that can eke out a starvation diet. Maybe an area-effect spell that makes all foodstocks inside the castle turn to rotted mildew? Or, if the PCs are thinking ahead, the food has an illusion of rotted mildew. So after defeating the lord they can dispell the illusion and the peasants can eat. Hmmm, if the local lord decides to call in the king to assist him against an "unlawful rebellion against rightful authority", then what?
FriendoftheDork 09-17-05, 12:38 AM	Sounds like a stupid Lord if he takes everything the peseants have, its' kinda like harvesting all the wheat and leaving nothing for sowing. I'm not sure what your power level of the campaing is, but in my game there is little a small time lord can do against ECL 12 characters. Ok the mage could probably do quite a bit, but the common soldiers stand little chance. The easy way in is obviously using magic, either teleportation effects, or just illusions like invisibility or hats of disgiuse (at 1800 pro person your party should afford it). The real challenge will be confronting the lord and his mage at the end.... i t's also an excuse for you to change things a bit. The lord might not really be the lord after all, but some magically disguised doppelganger or other creature bent on destroying the area totally. or perhaps the lord is magically controlled by the wizard, who is working for the ones responsible for the famine to begin with! The PCs might also abstain from fighting their way in if they learn that the soldiers are no worse than the common folk, only obeying the evil commands out of a sense of duty and fear for the lives of themselves and their families. Assuming your PCs are good, they might want to prevent "innocent" casualties and go right for the evil ones. But really, getting past walls was a challenge at 3rd level, don't count in it being a challenge now.
braindead345 09-17-05, 01:19 AM	Only an idiot would live in a place with only one enterance/exit. That is why there are fire escapes on the outside of apartment buildings. As for your evil lord, an escape tunnel leading to a nearby cave, boathouse/ dock (with the lord's yatch) or barn (with a fast carriage) would be reasonable. The secret passage would be secret to the general public (including most of the guards and servants in the castle). A select group of guards (in charge of the tunnel's protection), the owner of the exit's location (a retired guard/spy?), trusted bodyguards, and the royal family (or at least the older members of the family) would all know about it. For simplicity, sake, lets use the nearby barn plan. Locals could swear that they hear horse whinning at the farm, hungry peasants storm the place and find the carriage and horses. Intensive questioning of the farmer results in the secret passage's existance. Other possible ways to reveal the secret passage include: -Locals hunting for game/fishing in the river notice strange activity at an old boathouse/cave/barn. Especially when they notice the livery of the castle's guards amongst the men. -One of the passage's guards has told his wife what he does, and where it leads. Left for starving the wife tells the town's mayor. Or the guard himself has a change of heart and reveals it himself. Of course, there might not be a secret passage; but there are other ways in and out of the castle. Where does the castle get its water from? How does it get rid of its sewage/garbage? Can spellcasters use polymorph spells to turn into burrowing animals long enough to dig tunnels under the wall? What about using catapults to knock the wall down? Conversely, why do the peasants stay? With army held up in the castle, they could just start walking to where there is food. Maybe your party should concentrate on getting the townsfolk to where they can find food or get food stuffs brought in.
Sybill 09-17-05, 01:36 AM	Thanks for so many good ideas! Part of the problem is that their ECL is 12, not their level. They only have 1-2 class levels each. So teleportation, invisibility, or any other high-level spell is out of the question. And yes, the lord is a bit stupid. He's sold his soul to a demon, and it left him a bit unbalanced. The famine has been wholly widespread, since the river has dried up (which is another adventure entirely).
FriendoftheDork 09-17-05, 02:02 AM	Thanks for so many good ideas! Part of the problem is that their ECL is 12, not their level. They only have 1-2 class levels each. So teleportation, invisibility, or any other high-level spell is out of the question. And yes, the lord is a bit stupid. He's sold his soul to a demon, and it left him a bit unbalanced. The famine has been wholly widespread, since the river has dried up (which is another adventure entirely). well desite class levels they should still have wealth according to their ECL, not character levels. Which means loading up on magic stuff is a good idea. If not they're bound to have useful powers.... flight, domination etc... Let me see the Duergar has invisibility...The Monk should be able to sneak... the young dragon might have some sorcerer spells...
braindead345 09-17-05, 02:10 AM	Don't forget the spellcasters' familiars. Clever use of the familiar might allow for the gate to be opened-especially if it is only a drawbridge. Simply have the familiar find the controls and see what can be done. Other possiblites include powerful NPCs that have the spells to get them in. This is a cop out in my opinion, but if your party is particularly dense about getting in, you might have to fall back on it.
FriendoftheDork 09-17-05, 11:36 AM	Don't forget the spellcasters' familiars. Clever use of the familiar might allow for the gate to be opened-especially if it is only a drawbridge. Simply have the familiar find the controls and see what can be done. Other possiblites include powerful NPCs that have the spells to get them in. This is a cop out in my opinion, but if your party is particularly dense about getting in, you might have to fall back on it. hehe don't know what kind of familiars you are familiar with (pun intended), but mine can't hope to raise a drawbridge or portcullis... I mean it's not just a button to push. They can spy and distract very well though.
Black Knight Geno 09-17-05, 01:15 PM	hehe don't know what kind of familiars you are familiar with (pun intended), but mine can't hope to raise a drawbridge or portcullis... I mean it's not just a button to push. They can spy and distract very well though. Familiars don't need to be able to open themselves. Most drawbridges had a chain attached to a wheel that had to be turned to bring the drawbridge up. To diable that, you can do it two ways... 1) give familiar flask of acid, have it pour the acid on a chain. 2) give familiar flask of aclechmist (sp?) fire, pour on turning wheel. The portcullis is a bigger problem though, BUT you a dragon of unspecified color and BREATH WEAPON ABILITY. Doe anyone else see where I am going with this? Use the breath weapon on the portcullis and it will be down in very little time. Not very quiet but, oh well. :D Might have more ideas later check then.
scott644 09-17-05, 01:18 PM	If we look back in history, the stongest medieval forts and castles all incorporated one or more postern gates to the rear or side. These are smaller gates, virtually impossible to defeat in a siege as opposed to the main gates, and frequently used for smuggling or for sallies against besieging forces. Anybody remember the scene in LotR: The Two Towers where Gimli and Aragorn go around the side and buy time to defend the gates? They used a posten gate. The weakness of the postern gate is it's the easiest way to sneak into a stronghold when it's not in siege mode.
FriendoftheDork 09-17-05, 02:28 PM	Familiars don't need to be able to open themselves. Most drawbridges had a chain attached to a wheel that had to be turned to bring the drawbridge up. To diable that, you can do it two ways... 1) give familiar flask of acid, have it pour the acid on a chain. 2) give familiar flask of aclechmist (sp?) fire, pour on turning wheel. The portcullis is a bigger problem though, BUT you a dragon of unspecified color and BREATH WEAPON ABILITY. Doe anyone else see where I am going with this? Use the breath weapon on the portcullis and it will be down in very little time. Not very quiet but, oh well. :D Might have more ideas later check then. Many familars are not strong enough to carry a flask of acid. D&D acid does... 1d6 damage? Won't even get through the hardness of steel chains (10). Alchemist fire in the turning wheels will work slow and can easily be extinguised. Again, 1d6 fire damage will do little to wood (hardness 5). Both types of damage are halved against objects anyway. Using breath weapon... yeah perhaps a resonably sized dragon could blast down a gate. No guarantees though, especially if it's a PC (ECL).
Fixxxer 09-17-05, 05:12 PM	hehe don't know what kind of familiars you are familiar with (pun intended), but mine can't hope to raise a drawbridge or portcullis... I mean it's not just a button to push. Didn't you see Beastmaster? Your ferrit/rat/beaver/etc could chew through the rope that holds the counterweight up.
Talonz 09-17-05, 08:21 PM	Another obstacle is the sheer monstrosity that is the party makeup...they're all monsters or evil humanoids! They stand out like a sore thumb from a mile away... So lets try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone..why not have the party be shown to a river that goes underground, into a grotto ala The Phantom of the Opera, and leads into the dungeon underneath the castle? They you can have them adventure within the castle from the bottom up! And they don't get spotted a mile away. In addition, add a unique obstacle in having the peasants plead for the characters to not kill any of the guards. They are just poor servants as well for the most part, and quite likely related to many of the peasants. This will add a unique wrinkle to many encounters (sleep and subdual type attacks being the order of the day) and make such encounters with typically low level humans more challenging. Ultimately though, there should be some kind of twist/monster they have to defeat, because if it is just a normal lord (with no one pulling the strings they can fight) the climax will be a letdown, too easy, and yet come with dire consequences (they just invaded the rightful lords castle!). If the lord has signed some infernal pact as you suggest, perhaps an infernal advisor is present to make sure this pact is followed through with?