Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rumple_Cragstan 04-03-05, 04:00 AM	After talking with a friend of mine, I've realized something that I figured I should bring to the boards and see if everyone else suffers from the same issues. Do we as DMs ever care how much stuff the PCs have on them (with the exception of those PCs that are loaded up on everything including the front door)? I've noted that in my game the only time the PCs find Bags of Holding useful is when thier backpacks risk getting wet. Other than that, they can cram all the items they want into those tiny little bags and get away scratch-free. On the same note, unless the PCs are stranded without ANY rations or food, do we care if the PCs eat? I mean the PCs get teleported to a far-off land without all thier gear - suddenly you as a DM care how they're going to be feeding themselves... but when they go for that two-week trek in the mountains and only bring 10 days of food, do you notice? I've been trying to crack down on these litle things, and I was wondering if any other DMs had any advice on how to deal with these small but ever-appearing problems?
Crimsonsun 04-03-05, 04:11 AM	Bag space Im usually pretty lenent on, to a degree. You want to store all that loot you acquired during this dungeon/adventure in your bag of holding/handy haversack? Fair enough. You want to bring a catapault/ballista/castle wall? Eh, no. It all depends on if your playing directly by the rules, or if you let the story take key and not worry about the little stuff so much. Ive had PCs ask to stuff a 40ft gold statue into a bag I, and they wouldnt understand when I said it won't fit Food. I usually run close to the same. Do they have food listed on their possessions? Have they been to town recently enough to theoretically restock? Any way of MAKING food? If so, I won't worry unless its directly storyline important. Story ALWAYS takes precidence over rules in my games
EncasedShadow 04-03-05, 04:16 AM	My DM is pretty keen on weights, but it doesnt matter to him if you have a 15 pound ball of darkmatter or a 15 pound wall of feathers, you make it fit somewhere. Bulk is not an issue. We're playing the worlds largest dungeon, in the beginning we had to check on food and water. I havent had food in about 5 weeks now. Basically we assume that we grabbed a hunk of that warg, or stumbled across a cache of food. It was a pain for him to keep track of our eating habits, and for us to try and track down food and then make sure to state we ate everytime we took a nap. I'd implement dehydration and starvation if it was good for the plot - a long trek through a tundra or desert.
Fixxxer 04-03-05, 04:21 AM	As a DM, I'm pretty tough on keeping track of stuff like weight. I'm a little less worried about bulk, though I'm certainly more than willing to impose penalties to certain checks if you've got 15 spears sticking out of your backpack. I'm also not the type to include a bag of holding in a treasure hoard to make life easier for the PCs. As for food, I'm a stickler. If the PCs don't eat for an extended period of time, I'm more than happy to start throwing on starvation penalties. I've had people on this forum try to feed me lines like "Yeah, and do you also require the players to tell you when their PC has to pee as well?!?", but I've never heard the first complaint about the way I micromanage little things from any player in any game I've ever run.
Phrennzy 04-03-05, 04:24 AM	I have never worried about food. Unless it was part of the plot (like the area was hit with a famine, or a giant putrify food & water spell). I like to introduce the bag of holding early on, just to make things easier, but while I do not keep a exact weight count of what they have, I have a good idea, and point out that no, they can't stuff those adamantium doors in their backpack.
Dash Branaghan 04-03-05, 04:25 AM	I make them keep track of their gear, and occasionally pull their character sheets to get an idea of what they are carrying. Load can affect movement and certain abilities, so it is important to keep track of that, at least for me it is. Food I'm not too worried about. I have a halfling character who steals every bit of food he can find and stores it, snacking on it as he goes. I have a half orc who eats anything (including the meat from the corpses of slain monsters), and the rest of the party subsists on dried rations. They have one bag of holding and are practically begging me for another one because I restrict what they can carry based on their character's strength and equipment (sacks, pouches, backpacks, etc). Dash
EncasedShadow 04-03-05, 04:29 AM	I'd have fun with watching a fighter try to stuff his spare spears and swords in the bag of holding and then watching it burst. Basically I use bags of holding to reduce weight.
Koda77 04-03-05, 05:25 AM	yah wieght is usually all that matters in our game and i found for the second thing, hey 2500 is not alot even low levels, just get the ring of sustenance it is well worth it
Talanall 04-03-05, 11:21 AM	My players are Heward's handy haversack junkies, to a man or woman. Typically, they do carry rations or some other means of acquiring food when they need it, but I'm generally lax about it unless they're traveling through territory where they can't hunt or forage (there's almost always someone with enough ranks in Survival to feed the party pretty reliably if that's possible). In settled areas, I'll often just have them deduct a few copper pieces to pay for something to eat. And the ring of sustenance is popular in my games for other reasons (notably my fondness for nighttime attacks), so that often eases food problems, as well. So does the create food and water spell. Aside from that, however, woe to any edible creature which crosses their path while they're on the road. They can and will shoot a deer and eat it, if I roll a random encounter with one--say nothing about their esteem for the delicate flavor of smoked wyvern tail. The players themselves are typically more concerned about other minutia than I am myself; they track their own weight (and boy, is it fun to watch the party's Str 6 halfling bard figure out to carry what he needs). Unless they're moving in very narrow quarters, I don't pester them about bulk. About the only thing that I can think of which we do not keep very close tabs on, even when we should, is ammunition. I'm working on that, lately, but it's easy to forget. Since the party I am currently DM for includes an archer, however, I'm going to have to start remembering.
Burgundy Lotus 04-03-05, 11:38 AM	One of my players always seems to play an outdoorsy type with plenty of ranks in survival to feed the entire group so food and water (thanks to a cleric) are never an issue with us. Weight is once you start getting into the removal of treasure, then I need to know details so we know how many trips and what gets taken first incase there is a chance that anything could be taken by others while the party is gone.
Didge 04-03-05, 02:04 PM	Typically, I am the type of DM who has copies of everyones character sheets for every level. In fact, one of my house rules is that if I don't have an updated copy of your character sheet for their new level three days before the session, then you play at the lower level. This is tough, but it gives me a chance to scan over the sheets and know what my players have or don't have. This helps me put the final tweaks on the adventure I have planned. It also gives me a chance to focus on one specific aspect to ensure my players are calculating things correctly. For example, I might specifically focus on AC for all the character sheets to ensure they don't have multiple stacking effects, such as counting the Mage Armor spell into their AC along with their chain shirt. I also track encumbrance, as well as food/water supplies. Now currently, my players started and have continued to adventure in a metropolis so I'm not that tight on food or water supplies. I just let them know they need to deduct some coin for eating meals in taverns and inns and such. The amount they spend is based on the quality of the food. If a player starts to get too cheap I ask them to make some fortitude checks for me and begin to track starvation. They're usually good at getting at least mid-quality meals so it isn't too much of a hassle. But if they travel outside the city walls they know I'll be watching their food/water supplies. I also tend to use a little common sense when it comes to weight allowance. Just because your guy has a 20 str for example doesn't mean he has the physical space on his person to carry that much stuff. Especially if it's 30 heavy x-bows or something silly like that.
VirgilCaine 04-03-05, 02:40 PM	My players are Heward's handy haversack junkies, to a man or woman. ... And the ring of sustenance is popular in my games for other reasons (notably my fondness for nighttime attacks), so that often eases food problems, as well. So does the create food and water spell. My kinda people. Without needing water, that haversack can hold a lot more weight than if you needed to carry water. Now we just need a magic collapsible 10' pole.
Alcari Ambaron 04-03-05, 03:06 PM	I just watch weight, but i don't care about the little things that weigh 0.1 pounds. just the weapons and armor and loot. i don't care about bulk. however, like Didge says, common reason is applied. All my pc's have bought bags of holding, mainly for the weight, but they had to buy them themselves, they were not loot. I also don't count arrows. I believe that anyone who is skilled with a bow can make her own arrows. I DO count the enchanted arrows they use. as for food, who needs it. in my world, no adventurer needs to eat (or drink) :P Now we just need a magic collapsible 10' pole. my character that i play sometimes carries a lot of 3 ft segments of hollow tube that can be asembled to form a pole.....no need for magic there
Alynn 04-03-05, 05:24 PM	Weight, I do generally keep it up to the players to recalc their weights, the only ones it truely has a bearing on is the rogue, the cleric and the pali don't worry about it too much as they are slow anyway because of the armor. I think of backpacks like the ALICE packs (or MOLLY gear) that we use in the US army. If you know how to pack it, you can fit hundreds of pounds of equipment in them. Money I generally don't put weight on except for special things (IE, after fighting and killing a wyrmling green dragon there were nearly 6000 silver pieces, split between 4 people. For me 50 coins = 1lb, so it added like 28 pounds to all their weights. I was nice and didn't tack on an additional -1 ACP because of the chingy nature of all that loose change. As long as they aren't over their max weight, I figure they found a place for it. Special cases of course, you can't fit a 10' statue in a backpack. Food I am a stickler for, my PC's have a donkey that carries the food for the party, 1 trail ration per day of travel, it's a logistics thing for me, and the PC's make decisions about how far they need to go and how much food they need to bring, and should they bring more just in case they get stuck, or they can buy less and cut cross country, buy more and stick to the road, buying a cart in order to be able to carry everything they need for the trip. Gallon of water per day, and 1 trail ration.... water is generally easy to find unless in an arid area, and I assume that anytime they come across a decent sized puddle, or a stream, or a lake they fill their skins, but food, food you need to have. Normal starvation applies. It's also a way to keep pressure on the PC's money (although its not much) and my guys always go get "some real food" when they reach the next town, which is always more expensive.
Laranis Callirr 04-03-05, 08:04 PM	My players are honest enough to keep track of their own weight, and keep things in check. However, I do tell them how long their journeys will last, and they buy the appropriate amount of rations. On the other hand, I don't make too much of a fuss about the bulk of what they are carrying, and don't make an issue out of the weight of gold, as we all simply assume they change their money to lighter items which have the same value.
LordHell 04-03-05, 08:40 PM	As a DM, I'm pretty tough on keeping track of stuff like weight. I'm a little less worried about bulk, though I'm certainly more than willing to impose penalties to certain checks if you've got 15 spears sticking out of your backpack. I'm also not the type to include a bag of holding in a treasure hoard to make life easier for the PCs. As for food, I'm a stickler. If the PCs don't eat for an extended period of time, I'm more than happy to start throwing on starvation penalties. I've had people on this forum try to feed me lines like "Yeah, and do you also require the players to tell you when their PC has to pee as well?!?", but I've never heard the first complaint about the way I micromanage little things from any player in any game I've ever run. Im pretty much the same as this. I like to run consistant, believable worlds. It depends on your style - food and gear management can be a hassle for some, but I like to challange by PCs in ways other than combat and this provides for that. It also makes some skills (such as survival) useful, but removing the need to food and water in your game you make such skills less than useful.
Loren Pechtel 04-04-05, 12:14 AM	My policy on food/water/incidentals is that you note them on your sheet but you don't actually track their use. I assume you restock up to whatever you consider standard when you get a chance. If you list 5 days of food and you're out of town for more than that you'll need to do something about it. I check weight if I feel that characters might be carrying too much.
Begle1 04-04-05, 12:37 AM	I HAWK over my players' rations. It's only very rarely a problem since my players are excellent boy scouts, but I have had PC's crawl into town only a day or two away from starvation due to horse robbers. A few days worth of really bad luck for the barbarian and you're screwed. I also assume that your rations listed on your character sheet are the standard limit, and I go through a checklist in town to ensure that they refill their rations. And I have had some really thirsty PC's before, too. As for weight- I AM A STICKLER. Down to the pound, and often to the decimal. You will not get an extra pound of stuff in your bag. If you're encumbered, then NO, you CAN'T move and you HAVE TO leave tresure behind. Of course, my group is a great group and agrees with my rulings completely. They very rarely go anywhere without a few lackeys and porters. And shepherds. I hardly ever give out bullion as rewards; more often I give out deeds, herds of cattle, credit or such. Setting wise it is a very odd game...
VerinBlod 04-04-05, 05:59 AM	I'm pretty tough on keeping track of the weight they carry and if they brought any food with them and so on. Luckily for them my group always tend to have a ranger and a cleric. So not having food is hardly an issue. On the other hand my group tend to carry a lot of stuff with them, almost the complete list out of the phb. With the first money they made they bought a wagon to transport all that stuff. I also always want to know what they do with that stuff. Like were do they keep it when they go into a dungeon? Do they secure it? Or whatnot? The reason I want to know this is that there maybe bandits on the lookout for some easy obtainable goods, wagons and horses. Almost as good as pure cash I would say. And when all your cooking pots are gone you can always use the fighter's helmet to cook supper in. :D
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-04-05, 06:18 AM	EDIT: Accidental double post
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-04-05, 06:19 AM	I'm not concerned about weight and bulk (except from armor) when it comes to battles or round-based actions, because in combat I go along the lines of assuming they drop (a free action) any excess bulk they don't need. So, for example, that backpack with 30 trail rations and 500 gold pieces won't be any use, so you just take it off. However, I do take into account weight and bulk for overland travel. If you're moving at reduced speed due to weight, it will take you longer to travel somewhere, but you can move at your unencumbered movement rate if you get into battles on the way there.
Kalanth 04-04-05, 06:54 AM	The only thing I don't micromanage in my game is spell components. I make sure they have their food and drink, if they don't drink or eat I do ask if that is there intention or if they just forgot (I am that nice). Most times players get accustomed to the DM that doesn't care about those things and so they tend to forget. I, also, am much like the others here and care little to none about the bulk of the item. If they can carry it and they are not overweight thats cool. If the item is larger than a weapon (I simply assume they tie weapons to *something*) then I inform them that they will be either one handing it or have both hands full. In the above example of the 40ft statue, I would make sure they all knew they had to have both hands full to carry this out.
amethal 04-04-05, 07:02 AM	As a DM I can't be bothered keeping track of weight, food etc. It leads to a lower level of realism, but speeds up the game and allows more time for being "heroic". As a player, I like to keep track of what my character is carrying and how much it weighs - including crossing off arrows as I use them etc. - because I find it makes the game more interesting for me to have these limitations on my character. It also makes the game more fun, when finding a cache of longbow arrows is every bit as important as finding gold pieces. It doesn't slow the game down (after all, I only have one character to worry about). I do get looks of disbelief from the rest of the party when they find out the reason I'm not shooting is because I have run out of arrows (as they are still apparently using the same 20 arrows they started with as first level characters 6 months ago).
Rumple_Cragstan 04-04-05, 07:37 AM	I don't know about anyone else, but after reading some of the replies I've gotten some good ideas on how to keep track of food and such. I know that its a very D'oh idea that I should have come up with in the first place,but I really should keep copies of all the sheets, that way I can reference them durring session as well (no more asking spot modifiers only to garner paranoid looks from the fighter). Also Amethal, I once gave a PC bonus XP because I found out he was crossing out his ammunition as he used it. That kind of extra effort for the sake of balance should always be rewarded IMO, and will always be IMC.
Greldinard 04-04-05, 07:51 AM	I keep track of weight and extreme large items. Four weapons, ammo, shield and a large backpack might be almost impossible to carry when looking at size alone, but I can't be bothered by that. Same holds true for food and water. I know even epic characters have to eat and drink but I can't get excited by rollplaying that (unless they are for example in a desert).
nephtis 04-04-05, 07:59 AM	Glad to see I'm not the only one with that problem, I'm often surprised what a player carries when he told me his character has 'just the basic' adventurer kit. The only thing they haven't had at hand was the portable ram so far. What cures players of this habit is placing an adventure in an environment where weight is actually important. (Having them cross ice, making good time in a swamp/marsh land...) There are even traps that might be activated by too much weight. As for food/water. I've never had that problem since mostly there's one character in a group with a high enough score in wilderness lore. When they camp some go looking for fire wood, some build the camp and that character goes looking for food. Create water is a lowlevel spell, that almost every divine spell caster is able to speak, and even some arcane spell casters find it usefull to learn. Whenever the group reaches a town they have to pay for food and when they leaves they usually buy 5 to 10 rations for those days when the wilderness lore check isn't high enough.
Art_Tillary 04-04-05, 08:10 AM	I track weight at character creation and after shopping trips or if they find a big treasure. I do allow the ALICE pack idea of being able to instantly drop certain items to run away. As for food, they have to have it and pay to restock it. I generally don't keep track of it until the end of the dungon though. So if the party brought 5 days worth of food into a dungeon but stayed 6 it wouldn't be noticed until the end. Although I should encourage caches for big dungeons. If I had a party that started to abuse stuff, I'd enforce the rules more. AT
StormKnight 04-04-05, 11:33 AM	We don't usually sweat that stuff. We figure out items for a PCs standard gear. If they carry stuff long term or want to carry around something really heavy, we'll figure it out. Otherwise we don't stress about it. The PCs are assumed to stock up with a reasonable amount of traveling rations before heading somwhere. Its assumed that those supplies + hunting and gathering get them by. If something unexpected happens (they get horribly lost on a trip that's only supposed to be a few days, or their camp gets raided by animals who eat all the food), then food and water may start becoming an issue and they'll need to find something or risk starvation, but we don't do any concrete "accounting" of food.