Post/Author/DateTime	Post
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 06:51 PM	Hi, i need advice on some thing. One of my players has the worst luck i have ever seen. She has had 5 characters die, never gets magic items (i let them dish out who gets the stuff, and she is usually incapacitated, decides she doesn't want some thing when she doesn't know what it does, or some other random thing that stops her from getting cool magic items...), and things just generally seem to go bad when she does stuff. My question is: Would it be unfair to present the player with a chance to do a solo mission or two? To try to balance out the bad luck that seems to plague her...
Comus 05-11-07, 07:01 PM	Why has she had so many character deaths? Find the source of the problem first, then it can be fixed.
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 07:03 PM	Like i said, bad luck, monsters roll crits against her, she rolls 3's against them.
Morwen 05-11-07, 07:05 PM	and she is usually incapacitated This struck me as odd. The party actually divvies up loot before they've healed the other members of the group? Anyway, for this problem, you can put in some magic items that would only be useful for that particular character.
Comus 05-11-07, 07:11 PM	Like i said, bad luck, monsters roll crits against her, she rolls 3's against them. Bad luck is rarely so reliable. Are you sure she knows the rules? She may seem to be doing so badly because the character is built incorrectly, or she is calculating bonuses wrongly. Does she have appropriate wealth for her character's level? Is she using all of her character's abilities correctly? Has she just built a very weak character?
secher_nbiw45 05-11-07, 07:14 PM	Anyway, for this problem, you can put in some magic items that would only be useful for that particular character. This is what i would suggest. I had a similar problem with a monk i ran: every magic item we received was armor/martial weapons, etc, when the DM realized i was the only one w/out magic, he wrote something specifically for a monk. what class/level is this character?
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 07:17 PM	I'm pretty sure she knows the rules well. She will occasionally miss a requirement, or some thing small, but yes, she does know the rules. I actually give the players higher wealth per level than they should have. Then i leave it up to them to dived it amongst them selves. She uses her abilities pretty well, IMO. She actually builds relatively strong characters, i run kind of high-power games, so its not that hard to make strong characters...
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 07:18 PM	The class is Cleric, and the level is 2.
Brian_Link 05-11-07, 07:52 PM	Well if she's a cleric, why not do a quest for her Church, and when she gets back she gets a magic item. And this magic item doesn't need to be pre-published. Here's one that could help with the dying part(which I will be stealing from myself :D ) Amulet of Cure Wounds. Everyday while a Divine Spellcaster is preparing spells, she may choose to give up one of her Cure spells. If she chooses to do so, once per day, if her Hit Points ever reach 0 or lower, the Cure spell she sacrificed is immediatly cast on herself, at the same caster level she was when preparing the spell. Also, if shes a Cleric, give her access to the Luck Domain. 1 free reroll a day. In my experience its never been gamebreaking in anyway. Also, make her try another D20. It may be complete superstition, but sometimes a new dice seems to fix things.
swallowyersoul 05-11-07, 08:47 PM	Statistically improbable. Have her track her rolls. Lucky people aren't lucky...they just remember the lucky times and ignore the unlucky ones. The reverse is true of 'unlucky' people. She notices the bad luck because she's convinced she's unlucky. People like to be right about things.
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 09:04 PM	Um, while yes, over time the rolls will come out to 5% per number, that doesn't stop her from rolling an abnormally large amount of nat ones, in multiple sessions. Also, shes not the one that says she's unlucky. I am. I have had days where i roll 3-4 nat ones, or lots of low numbers, but i have never seen some one get hit by some many crits (I think i got four in a single encounter) and so many horrible rolls.
weasel0 05-11-07, 09:12 PM	oh, lets not try that. Not all d20s are created equal. And I'm not even talking loaded ones. 1 of the guys at my table has a chest full of die. I refuse to use anyof them if at all possible. As well as everyone else. They're all cursed! Just this week we(him, I and the DM for our Cauldron game-the 2 of us got seperated in the Koa-toa area) played and with 2 different d20s, was rolling a 4 every other roll for attacks. Total 4s? 12! EVERY OTHER ROLL!!! and this is basically how all his dice roll. Everyone at the normal table keeps an eye on his rolling. We all try to tell him to invert his numbers because his die always roll low. He stubbornly refuses and as such always has the most deaths in every campain.
Anaesthesia 05-11-07, 09:20 PM	As someone else suggested, maybe the luck domain would also help her. She could probably use a scroll (or similar item) with a good spell on it, like bless weapon--although you might want to let her buy it or have an NPC specifically give it to her, if it's too much GP/other Pcs would take it. Also, you might want to look at some of the Magic Items in the DMG, for instance Banded Mail of Luck (which allows player to reroll 1 attack roll 1/week) Alternatively, she can cast sanctuary on herself, and no one would be able to attack her (if save fails).
Kopana 05-11-07, 09:54 PM	Whee, a topic all about me and my wretched luck : P The Cleric 2 is in this new game, our last game lasted up until level fourteen at which time me and the only other player through the world into anarchy, in the beginning I couldn't decide what I wanted to do and so remade often, then I just kept dying -_- Magic items are nice, but if I don't really worry about dying, it's another chance to try something new. What does annoy me, is that whenever the DM, criticalstriker, makes a cursed item, which is a hobby of his apparently, I never seem to get one, or when my character dies they go to the other player and I never have an excuse to get any back... at the end of the campaign my friend was a humanoid armory of magic. I asked my DM if I could read this by the way, so please don't yell at me or anything. We play online using Fantasy Grounds by the way, so changing dice isn't an option really.. I can paint them another color, which is always kinda fun. The last game there was only two players by the way, and there's three in this new game, and we've got a fourth lined up hopefully.
sbattisti 05-11-07, 11:07 PM	Uh, I'm sure this opinion will generate some heat. My suggestion regarding her luck is . . . CHEAT. No, not you, Miss Unlucky. :) You, the DM. In the long run, what's more important? A happy gaming group, or being 100% true to the die roll? Your problem isn't that SHE's unlucky. Your problem is that you're TOO lucky. She ain't dying from missing her attack rolls. She's dying because you keep critting her. So, all of the above suggestions, and maybe on top of it, that crit turns into a normal hit on occasion, just to keep her dying relatively equal to everyone else's? Just my 2 cp, tho'. :D
criticalstriker 05-11-07, 11:09 PM	I've actually done that once or twice. I don't like making a habit of it though.
sbattisti 05-11-07, 11:52 PM	I've actually done that once or twice. I don't like making a habit of it though. Well, it doesn't have to be habit-forming. Just use it to counterbalance her luck to the point where you don't need to post here for help on her lousy luck. :)
Tovanion 05-12-07, 12:11 AM	Bad luck exists. Cursed die too. I will convert to d20 rules (since it happened in 2nd ed.) I have an AC of 30. Monster has 8 attacks per round (multi-legged), at +12 each. I have 2 attacks at +15, monster has AC 21. 7 rounds. Monster hit me 51 times out of 56. I hit the monster 0 times out of 14. My then-DM had rolled every single dice roll in the open and not behind his screen. Someone can tell me what the statistical probability of that is? In addition to the "luck" items, domain, etc recommended by others, I too am really puzzled by the fact that the other players are splitting the loot without any consideration for the fallen / disabled character. If they're evil, of course, it's a whole different problem. I would recommend that you tell the other players a discrete reminder: if the dying party member is always dying... she is not helping them as much as she could if she was properly outfitted with gear equivalent to their own. If it's just bad attitude regarding loot splitting, I can offer this: You can suggest that the unlucky player create an undercover character that is really against the party but that is cooperating with the party's nemesis. Just wait until the party is climbing down a chimney into a cave complex where they have to sneak or die. Then throw a thunderstone down the chimney. This is called (depending on your point of view) heroic undercover action or vile treachery. Please note that with the right players, it might be just a wake up call to remind everyone that they're there to have fun together, and not at the expense of anybody. With the wrong kind of players, it will shatter the group. Know your players and, if you're not sure, don't do it. Finally, you can have the unlucky character do a solo adventure or two. If you have the right justification, it will be fine. The difficulty is to "freeze" the other characters in a time and place where they won't be able to interfere with the solo of the other player. It could be that they end up in jail for some offence or that they are summoned to attend a grand revelry by a noble that lives 2 weeks away and they have to attend *or else*. In the second case, you have a month for the solo adventuring of the Unlucky One. If you play weekly, let's say, try to meet the player 1 or 2 extra time during the week, give the other players a week off during normal meeting time, and meet 1 or 2 extra times the week after. So in 2 weeks, the regular game has only skipped once, and you've met the Unlucky One 3-5 times, which should hopefully get you somewhere.
Kopana 05-12-07, 12:15 AM	Hmm, this shouldn't come up so much with this character. Enlarge Person with my Masterwork Dwarven Waraxe + Power Attack for 2d8+5 damage and I have an AC of 16 when enlarged, I swear by the abstract concept that I worship, I will not be unlucky this time! :) If I die again I'm going to remake an old character of mine, a 38 strength minotaur barbarian, she only died because the other player played a nasty trick on her and I followed through on how she would have acted and I went rage on his butt, unfortunately he pulled off the trick by being invisible and I was already like 9/10ths dead. Also, it's not a matter of the other character keeping the stuff unfairly, it's just that once I died he would get all my stuff... we ended up ending that game because he had half a million in liquid assets at level 14-15, that and we threw the nation into chaos and war. It's not really any of his fault, I'm just really unlucky, and the main thing that annoys me about not getting stuff is the cursed items that the DM makes, oh man they're just amazing, the boots of blinding speed, the diamond-biter ring, all this great and wonderful stuff that does awesome and amazing things, these wonderful fun things... that I never ever ever ever ever ever ever have...
Alric 05-12-07, 02:18 AM	Well the more dice you roll the more often you will roll a 1. Also the more danger you put yourself in the more likely you are to die because of it. As for not getting magic items, you should talk to the players about that out of the game. Really they shouldn't be hoarding magic items and keeping other players from getting their fair share. If you get a bunch of stuff you cant use, then the fair thing is to get first pick the next time around. Thats really a problem with the group being greedy not her having back luck. Which brings me to something which may be very important. Is she in the proper marching order? I have to say this because it sounds like you got a few goofballs in your group. Just because a cleric is wearing full plate doesn't mean he is a combat cleric. And just because a druid has a melee weapon doesn't mean its a combat druid. A lot of people are under the impression that if you have say high armor class, you should be up front. That is untrue. Characters that are backup fighters often get into a lot because people try to talk them into acting like real fighters and then they just get themself killed.
Fireclave 05-12-07, 03:27 AM	It's not really any of his fault, I'm just really unlucky, and the main thing that annoys me about not getting stuff is the cursed items that the DM makes, oh man they're just amazing, the boots of blinding speed, the diamond-biter ring, all this great and wonderful stuff that does awesome and amazing things, these wonderful fun things... that I never ever ever ever ever ever ever have... If I were you, I would do everything within my power to remove chance from my actions as much as possible. Focus on defense first, because the first step to not dying is not dying (ironically enough). Up your AC and saves as much as possible (via spells, items, ect), until your foes practically have to roll 20s to affect you. Grab a Amulet of Health (+whatever you can get) as well to give yourself a HP buffer vs crits. When casting offensive spells, rely on spells that ignore SR, grant no saves or still affect the target on a failed save (Summon Monster immediately comes to mind). When fighting really dangerous stuff, switch to ranged weaponry and let your more melee oriented allies charge ahead. Should you find yourself wanting improve your weapon to do more weapon damage in combat, prioritize enhancement bonuses over enchants that simply add more damage (like flaming, shocking, ect). Enhancement bonuses add to your to-hit as well as damage, and extra damage from properties like flaming don't do a thing if you don't actually nail a hit. And remember, discretion is the better part of valor. And when in doubt, run. There may be glory in death, but dead men tell no tales. (four clichés in a row :cool: ) And if all that doesn't work, consider taking Leadership and getting yourself a bodyguard/sidekick/apprentice. Perhaps another cleric or even a paladin, bard, or druid. It's always good to have someone around who can heal the healer. And the "cursed items" you mentioned don't sound like cursed items. Cursed items are generally bad to have around. These (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm)are cursed items. You don't want those. Well, maybe the Flask of Curses and Dust of Sneezing and Choking, but probably none of that other stuff. Now, if you are deficient in magical gear, you have a few options available to you: 1) Buy your own gear, 2) Specifically quest for some gear, or 3) Make it yourself. The last option is one you might want to try when you get the prerequisite caster levels because you'll have full control over what you make, which means you will get exactly what you want. @criticalstriker - This probably goes without saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway just in case. Make sure that the party is within the wealth-by-level guidelines. If the rest of the party is getting more gear because Kopana's characters keep dying, and Kopana's new chars enter with comparatively little to no gear, this is going to cause two problems. 1) Everyone else in the party will be better (possibly over) geared and will be better capable of handling stronger foes than they normally should be able to while dragging along Kopana's new chars who are 2) under-equipped for encounters of their level, let alone the level of the foes that the pimped out party want to pursue.
Kraleck 05-12-07, 07:25 AM	Being as I tend to get equal shares of luck (i.e. bad luck is soon followed by good luck and vice versa) I must give a few rolling tips: Roll dice several different ways with each hand and record your results. I found that flipping a d20 like a coin with my left hand works pretty well for me (87% of rolls are 16-20 with 10% of those rolls as 20) with throwing a d20 like I'm playing Craps with my right in a close second (83% rolled 16-20 with 14% of those rolls as 20). Find a way that works for you and do not be afraid to experiment with rolling techniques. I've rolled 4 consecutive 20s followed by 4 consecutive 1s in 2 rounds of a single combat situation (two-weapon fighting was surprisingly effective otherwise), so your luck can turn sour or sweet at any time. Also, celebrating consecutive 20s tends to cause Murphy's Law to kick in.
metatheurgist 05-12-07, 07:37 AM	I have a house rule I call the "Dice Bank". Basically it's a mechanic that lets the party store a (random) number of dice rolls. When they store a dice roll they immediately replace the result with another dice roll and they must abide by the result. Or they can take a dice roll out of the bank instead of rolling. They can only use a d20 roll for another d20 (etc) roll so no using 3d6 for skill checks. I did this just so unlucky players didn't get screwed so hard. During big fights it's totally unfair to TPK just because of a series of bad rolls from the players. With the Dice Bank they can mitigate being screwed by the dice a bit. Fighter just rolled a one on a critical save? No problems just store the result and take the next roll. Really need that turning check to work? Just take a roll from the bank that will guarantee success. It is open to abuse, but that's why there's a limit to how many rolls can be stored (secretly determined). But I think it' s worth it just to get around some problems generated by bad luck.
kelvinaw273 05-12-07, 10:16 AM	Hi, i need advice on some thing. One of my players has the worst luck i have ever seen. She has had 5 characters die, never gets magic items (i let them dish out who gets the stuff, and she is usually incapacitated, decides she doesn't want some thing when she doesn't know what it does, or some other random thing that stops her from getting cool magic items...), and things just generally seem to go bad when she does stuff. My question is: Would it be unfair to present the player with a chance to do a solo mission or two? To try to balance out the bad luck that seems to plague her... Not unfair at all. Go for it. As she is gimped on items her power level is probably falling behind because of it, increasing the chances of her dying again ... sounds like she needs it.
Kopana 05-12-07, 10:59 AM	As I've said twice now, in that game there was only one other player, I would start out with full gear for my level, and on my minotaur for example the other guy actually spent some 25,000 gold on me to get the huge-muscled minotaur on his side, and it helped me get a stunningly powerful axe. Also yes, they usually are cursed items, they always have a downside, boots of blinding speed, when you're running six hundred feet a second you're going to slam face-first into a tree or a wall or trip on a stone or something like that, the diamond-biter ring never even had an upside as far as I knew, it just tried to eat me when I put it on, it would grow and when I took it off I took a con penalty that stayed until the other guy found a wand of heal while adventuring, and there's almost never a single item he makes that doesn't have a "The One Ring" style MY PRECIOUS effect. Really it's not at all the other players fault, and as for me tanking, well that's one of the main reaons I made this character, we don't have a fighter really, the other two players are a rogue whose player fears being one-hitted so much that half the time it seems like he's trying to flee the battle, and the other guy (who was the other player in the first game) is a warmage, so me and him serve as the tanks, and it's a lot of fun, throw up some Enlarge Person, Magic Weapon, if I really need help I can throw up an Obscuring Mist and the rogue can come save my butt. But really, there's nothing inherently wrong happening here, I just never seem to hold on to the fun stuff the DM makes for very long, nor do I tend to live very long, but that's just chance really. :) Oh, and like I said this is a new character, so these cursed items haven't come up yet.. though I'm fairly certain the rogue took something nice from a chest and then didn't tell me...
Nephlite 05-12-07, 11:18 AM	As I've said twice now, in that game there was only one other player, I would start out with full gear for my level, and on my minotaur for example the other guy actually spent some 25,000 gold on me to get the huge-muscled minotaur on his side, and it helped me get a stunningly powerful axe. Also yes, they usually are cursed items, they always have a downside, boots of blinding speed, when you're running six hundred feet a second you're going to slam face-first into a tree or a wall or trip on a stone or something like that, the diamond-biter ring never even had an upside as far as I knew, it just tried to eat me when I put it on, it would grow and when I took it off I took a con penalty that stayed until the other guy found a wand of heal while adventuring, and there's almost never a single item he makes that doesn't have a "The One Ring" style MY PRECIOUS effect. Really it's not at all the other players fault, and as for me tanking, well that's one of the main reaons I made this character, we don't have a fighter really, the other two players are a rogue whose player fears being one-hitted so much that half the time it seems like he's trying to flee the battle, and the other guy (who was the other player in the first game) is a warmage, so me and him serve as the tanks, and it's a lot of fun, throw up some Enlarge Person, Magic Weapon, if I really need help I can throw up an Obscuring Mist and the rogue can come save my butt. But really, there's nothing inherently wrong happening here, I just never seem to hold on to the fun stuff the DM makes for very long, nor do I tend to live very long, but that's just chance really. :) Oh, and like I said this is a new character, so these cursed items haven't come up yet.. though I'm fairly certain the rogue took something nice from a chest and then didn't tell me... Another idea: collect the items (cursed or otherwise) sell them and craft/buy better ones. Cursed items have a cost: they can be sold according to DMG. What is your AC currently: Assuming level 3: you should need only 15 + 4 AC=19 AC. That shoud last you. Assuming level 4: AC 21 needed. assuming level 5: AC 22 needed.
Kopana 05-12-07, 12:21 PM	My AC at level two is 18, 17 if I'm enlarged. Oh, and if I can help it I'll almost never sell any of his wonky items, they're always unique and interesting, parting with even one brings me deep sorrow and regret. Let's see you give up a ring that tries to eat you, I think I just like such crazy things a lot :P Maybe I should work on improving my build, I'm going for a tank cleric :P I asked in the CO boards but I got a lot of "Go DMM!" which I don't really care for, and only one or two people suggested good stuff, but the best build suggested was rather craft-heavy and that just doesn't strike me as fitting me that well, unless I'm somehow mistaken and there's a way for me to craft arcane stuff without taking the magic domain and spending craptons of money on arcane spells. Can I just have the Warmage cast them or something? If that's the case then I think I'm set.
Alric 05-12-07, 02:24 PM	Well if your going to tank you need a healer. If you tank and you don't have a healer, its called cannon fodder. Your basicly just a big meat shield to go up front and die so others don't. Now if your strong enough you can get away with this for a while. You just need to deal out enough damage to kill everything quickly which is possible. The problem is there is no one to help you if you get in trouble, which is why you die.
Kopana 05-12-07, 02:41 PM	I have no clue what the hell you're talking about Alric, but everything you just said made no sense to me at all... Are you saying me tanking as a rogue is bad or something? Or what? Cuz' I don't know what you're saying here... There's plenty of decent melee tank builds, my favorite so far is Cleric 20. :) I kick decent ass.. what on earth are you talking about?
Alric 05-12-07, 03:34 PM	If you tank without having someone able to heal you, you die. Is that clear now?
Kopana 05-12-07, 04:08 PM	But.. I am a healer... and it's not like wands are that expensive... I got that you were saying that if you tank without a healer you die, but I'm the Cleric, take Craft Contingency or get the other guys wands.
Fireclave 05-12-07, 04:30 PM	But.. I am a healer... and it's not like wands are that expensive... I got that you were saying that if you tank without a healer you die, but I'm the Cleric, take Craft Contingency or get the other guys wands. Are you a healer or are you the healer? If you are paralyzed, ability drained, droped into the negatives, ect, while still in a dangerous situation (such as a battle), can the party pick up the slack and come to your rescue before you die? The standard issue wand of CLW is great for after combat, but can anyone else in your party equal your healing ability during combat? I'm not saying that you shouldn't tank if that's what you want to do. Just saying that you are the party's main healer, you might want to take a slightly more secondary place in the marching order. Perhaps behind the melee specialists and in front of the mages.
Kopana 05-12-07, 04:42 PM	What melee specialists? The other players, all two of them, are a warmage and a rogue, we have a druid who has yet to be online for even one session so far, and in our last game it was just me and the warmage, he was a fighter and I was usually a rogue, we made do with CLW and eventually a wand of heal. I don't even think I want to be a Cleric anymore, I made it specifically for the purpose of basically being a Divine battlemage, but then that moron goes and makes a Warmage, screw that, we don't need two people who are half-caster half-fighter, and we've proven before that we don't need a divine caster at all. I'll just make a barbarian, really it suits me way better.
Ack 05-12-07, 05:38 PM	I've had this happen to me too. In one fight, I was on AC 21 vs something that had to roll a 19+ to hit me. It hit me six times (four crits). I had to roll a 10+ to hit it. I got one hit in. Next big fight, the rogue had to take front (for various reasons) and he had a lower AC than I did, and he never got hit once in 17 rounds. And the GM rolled in the open...
Fireclave 05-12-07, 05:59 PM	What melee specialists? The other players, all two of them, are a warmage and a rogue, we have a druid who has yet to be online for even one session so far, and in our last game it was just me and the warmage, he was a fighter and I was usually a rogue... Okay. Your party as no dedicated melee specialists to stay behind, but also no dedicated arcane spellcaster to stand in front of to protect. My point still stands. As the party's main healer, you should be extra cautious when fighting. ...we made do with CLW and eventually a wand of heal. A minor technicality, but you mean a Staff of Heal, right? Since you can't make wands out of the heal spell. A Staff of Heal, btw, would be best in the hands of a divine caster since you can use your own CL instead of the preset CL of the item. I don't even think I want to be a Cleric anymore, I made it specifically for the purpose of basically being a Divine battlemage, but then that moron goes and makes a Warmage, screw that, we don't need two people who are half-caster half-fighter... I don't see what the problem is. Cleric and Warmage fill two very different niches. Warmages excel blast at blasting. Everything. Clerics don't blast nearly as well, but they excel at healing, summoning, buffing, casting alignment-based spells, and if I remember correctly, are better armored than the Warmage (without spending feats) and therefore make better tanks. Neither of you should be stepping on each other's toes. And neither classes are half-casters. They're full casters that can hold their own in melee (and that's a big difference). That's actually a good thing since that means that the party's mage can back you up in melee instead of relying on you to soak up all the damage and possibly getting yourself killed. and we've proven before that we don't need a divine caster at all. Of course you don't need a divine spellcaster. But just because the dish doesn't need a little oregano, doesn't mean it couldn't use a little oregano :P I'll just make a barbarian, really it suits me way better. It's always best to play what you enjoy.
Kopana 05-12-07, 06:33 PM	First off, I hate Oregano : P Yuck! Second, I think most of the stuff I've said so far is really just stemming from the fact that I'm not having much fun playing this character anymore, and I can't figure out why.